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Posted: 5/25/2016 5:33:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Why would they be any more effective than normal FMJ?
It's a pistol round, unless you're talking about a decent hollow-point like a Gold Dot or HST, you're really splitting hairs when it comes to "better". They're all going to be pretty unimpressive. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:12:02 PM EDT
[#2]
It is my belief that the Federal 147gr flat nose (AE9FP) was designed to have a similar ballistic performance to the Federal HST 147gr P9HST2. AE9FP is the recommended practice round for the P9HST2. So the bullet shape and design of the FMJ, I think was deliberately for this purpose. Take a look at the chart:
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:40:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is my belief that the Federal 147gr flat nose (AE9FP) was designed to have a similar ballistic performance to the Federal HST 147gr P9HST2. AE9FP is the recommended practice round for the P9HST2. So the bullet shape and design of the FMJ, I think was deliberately for this purpose. Take a look at the chart: http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag331/Linc5870/image_zpsx7m8g5ra.jpeg That's interesting. Thanks for posting. As to the question above, I think they would be a bit more effective than regular FMJ ammo because it's like a semi-wadcutter shape. They leave cleaner holes in paper, it seems they would cut/disturb more flesh than the subtle curvature of a round nose. Hard cast loads in .44 and .357 meant for hunting are flat nosed for this purpose I believe. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:53:13 PM EDT
[#4]
In my experience shooting AE9FP and AE9AP (124gr round nose), makes the same hole in paper. My 38 SPL wadcutter ammo does make a very clean hole but its a full wadcutter not semi. I do not believe the FP gives you any advantage over a round nose as far as terminal performance. Semi wadcutters have that edge at the case mouth, where the FP is smooth.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:59:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my experience shooting AE9FP and AE9AP (124gr round nose), makes the same hole in paper. My 38 SPL wadcutter ammo does make a very clean hole but its a full wadcutter not semi. I do not believe the FP gives you any advantage over a round nose as far as terminal performance. Semi wadcutters have that edge at the case mouth, where the FP is smooth. That is true. I know I like to split hairs LOL. A ballistics gel test would be interesting to see. Thanks for the replies. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:48:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is my belief that the Federal 147gr flat nose (AE9FP) was designed to have a similar ballistic performance to the Federal HST 147gr P9HST2. AE9FP is the recommended practice round for the P9HST2. So the bullet shape and design of the FMJ, I think was deliberately for this purpose. Take a look at the chart: http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag331/Linc5870/image_zpsx7m8g5ra.jpeg External ballistic performance, yes. Not terminal. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 12:18:11 AM EDT
[#7]
While we are on the subject, does anyone know if Lawman 147gr TMJ would be similar to HST, velocity and trajectory wise? I bought a case for suppressor use and was wondering if it could pull double duty as a training round for my carry load which is 147gr HST.
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Posted: 5/26/2016 1:21:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is my belief that the Federal 147gr flat nose (AE9FP) was designed to have a similar ballistic performance to the Federal HST 147gr P9HST2. AE9FP is the recommended practice round for the P9HST2. So the bullet shape and design of the FMJ, I think was deliberately for this purpose. Take a look at the chart: http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag331/Linc5870/image_zpsx7m8g5ra.jpeg The part in blue is not the case... though it does make a good practice round that is very similar to the HST load. It's often very accurate. AE9FP has been around a lot longer than HST has. It was probably brought about at the same time as the original Hi-Shok 147gr JHP (9MS)... so, 1980's vintage. ETA: Terminal performance wise, a flat point bullet *might* crush a bit more tissue than a round nose bullet, all else being equal. It's also believed that they track straighter when penetrating, and are not as likely to tumble (see some of the modern flat pointed bullets used in cartridges intended for large African game). Even the cheaper old tech, generic JHP's are still probably going to have better terminal performance than any FMJ bullet. Also, the Speer 147gr TMJ load is pretty close velocity/trajectory wise. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 3:45:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Yup... If AE9FP came long before the HST, it couldn't have been designed for it. The ballistic data is identical from ATK, but it has been pointed out that sometimes this type of data is not always accurate. For me, I did some chrono testing and found that the velocities were very, very close to the same. I also found that POI was close to the same, but I was shooting offhand and not from a bench. Offhand at 25 yards you couldn't tell the FMJ from the HST from looking at the targets, but that's mostly because of the shooter.
Your experience with Lawman matches mine. I practice with Lawman too, but have a lot more of the AE9FP. I did not chrono Lawman so I can't say there is a quantitative match to HST. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 4:01:57 AM EDT
[#10]
FMJ 9x19 will work in a pinch, but it is not optimal and has shortcomings in terminal performance.
But...........you could always go for those gimmicky Ruger and LeHigh rounds 
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Posted: 5/26/2016 6:48:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FMJ 9x19 will work in a pinch, but it is not optimal and has shortcomings in terminal performance. But...........you could always go for those gimmicky Ruger and LeHigh rounds Hah, well the purpose of the flat nose was cost effectiveness. 
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Posted: 5/26/2016 7:28:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hah, well the purpose of the flat nose was cost effectiveness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FMJ 9x19 will work in a pinch, but it is not optimal and has shortcomings in terminal performance. But...........you could always go for those gimmicky Ruger and LeHigh rounds Hah, well the purpose of the flat nose was cost effectiveness. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 2:07:20 PM EDT
[#13]
for me and a SHTF stash, i'd rather have 500 rounds of good HP, over 1000 round of fmj.
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Posted: 5/26/2016 11:22:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Choose a cheap FMJ round that most closely matches the ballistics of your carry load. If I carried Speer 124 gr +P Gold Dots or one of the other mid 120 grain +P loads, I'd opt for NATO 9mm 124 gr FMJ loads, as they tend to be hotter than standard pressure 124 gr loads made here in the states. OTOH, if I were carrying something like the 147 gr HST or Ranger Talons, I'd select a 147 grain FMJ load rated at about 990-1000 fps muzzle velocity. I've used the 147 grain offerings from Federal American Eagle, Speer Lawman and Remington UMC and all shoot to about the same POI as my carry rounds and have similar recoil. I buy whichever of those 3 loads I can get the best deal on when I need more training ammo.
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Posted: 5/27/2016 11:04:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While we are on the subject, does anyone know if Lawman 147gr TMJ would be similar to HST, velocity and trajectory wise? I bought a case for suppressor use and was wondering if it could pull double duty as a training round for my carry load which is 147gr HST. It should be very similar, though it's advertised as the ballistic equivalent to the 147gr Gold Dot. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 11:09:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It should be very similar, though it's advertised as the ballistic equivalent to the 147gr Gold Dot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: While we are on the subject, does anyone know if Lawman 147gr TMJ would be similar to HST, velocity and trajectory wise? I bought a case for suppressor use and was wondering if it could pull double duty as a training round for my carry load which is 147gr HST. It should be very similar, though it's advertised as the ballistic equivalent to the 147gr Gold Dot. Thanks for the info. It should suffice as long as it is in the ball park. |
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Posted: 5/29/2016 10:37:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While we are on the subject, does anyone know if Lawman 147gr TMJ would be similar to HST, velocity and trajectory wise? I bought a case for suppressor use and was wondering if it could pull double duty as a training round for my carry load which is 147gr HST. When fired from my S&W M&P9 CORE, the Speer Lawman 147 grain TMJ load had a POI that was approximately 1" higher and 0.75" to the right of the Federal 147 grain HST load. The Speer Lawman 147 grain TMJ ammunition is very accurate. At a distance of 25 yards, my M&P9 CORE turned in a 10-shot group with an extreme spread of 1.56" with this load. 
.... |
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Posted: 5/29/2016 10:42:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When fired from my S&W M&P9 CORE, the Speer Lawman 147 grain TMJ load had a POI that was approximately 1" higher and 0.75" to the right of the Federal 147 grain HST load. The Speer Lawman 147 grain TMJ ammunition is very accurate. At a distance of 25 yards, my M&P9 CORE turned in a 10-shot group with an extreme spread of 1.56" with this load. https://app.box.com/shared/static/nq5mbej8p3sqste5lmk8lw3gfuka1g13.jpg .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: While we are on the subject, does anyone know if Lawman 147gr TMJ would be similar to HST, velocity and trajectory wise? I bought a case for suppressor use and was wondering if it could pull double duty as a training round for my carry load which is 147gr HST. When fired from my S&W M&P9 CORE, the Speer Lawman 147 grain TMJ load had a POI that was approximately 1" higher and 0.75" to the right of the Federal 147 grain HST load. The Speer Lawman 147 grain TMJ ammunition is very accurate. At a distance of 25 yards, my M&P9 CORE turned in a 10-shot group with an extreme spread of 1.56" with this load. https://app.box.com/shared/static/nq5mbej8p3sqste5lmk8lw3gfuka1g13.jpg .... Thank you, you are an incredible resource. |
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Posted: 5/30/2016 12:36:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Flat nose rounds perform, from a wound ballistics point of view, like FMJ/RN. Unfortunately, they exaggerate the overpenetration problems of FMJ/RN and penetrate even MORE.
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