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Posted: 5/15/2016 11:42:44 PM EDT
[#1]
I reload, and my go to load for shooting something to "kill" is the 62gr TTSX.
Many choices for punching paper or varmint shooting, but I can do that with the TTSX as well. If I can only have what I can carry, I want to carry something with max penetration, and expansion. Iv got this round loaded to within about 80 fps of the M855. This load is also in the expansion threshold out to over 300yds. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 10:13:47 AM EDT
[#2]
62gr TSX.
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Posted: 5/16/2016 10:54:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Where I am I use 62 fusion for camping trips etc.
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Posted: 5/16/2016 11:09:48 AM EDT
[#4]
77gr. SBK OTM mod1 razorcore.
Talk about damage. I have 8 mags loaded with this stuff just in case shtf. All other mags are loaded with training ammo. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 2:34:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Since my go to 5.56mm ammo is MK262 (BH 77 gr. OTM in 5.56mm), I'll use that imy 10" and 16" AR's. It's a great round
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Posted: 5/16/2016 3:05:00 PM EDT
[#6]
A big factor is your barrel length, twist rate and what you are likely to encounter... i.e. grizzly vs squirrel.
For two legged threats, spend some time on Brass Fetcher's website for some great scientific info: http://www.brassfetcher.com/Rifles/5.56mm/5.56mm.html |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 3:28:09 PM EDT
[#7]
MK318 would be a good choice, or a bonded soft point.
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Posted: 5/16/2016 4:23:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
77gr. SBK OTM mod1 razorcore. Talk about damage. I have 8 mags loaded with this stuff just in case shtf. All other mags are loaded with training ammo. +1 for Razor core. Though the AR is my go-to rifle I I don't think 5.56 is enough gun for bear... maybe for smaller black bears but definitely not enough for the larger game animals out West. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 7:11:50 PM EDT
[#9]
I have my AR loaded with Fusion MSR rounds for HD but should SHTF to the point I need to be shooting at people, M855 will work just fine
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Posted: 5/16/2016 7:19:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Carry anything BUT an M855. The MK318 is a good choice if you can find it, a 64 grain Gold Dot or Fusion, or TAP, or the like.
Best all round is the heaviest OTM your rifle will shoot well. 55 grain FMJ will do the job on a people type target. If you are bear hunting, you may want a little more fire power. I would. Even a 175 pound black bear is formidable. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 9:43:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for all the replies. I guess in the 77 OTM we're talking MK-262 ?? Definitely heavy for the cal but understandably we are...after all...talking about an ice-pick round.
About 2 years ago my bug out rifle of consideration was an 22LR....probably an 10/22 takedown. Good rifle but no where near versatile enough especially if I encountered larger game. With 5.56/223 in 55g xm-193 you have the velocity even w/ 16"bbL to put a clear hole through 3/8" steel @ 200 yd but is that optimal for bug-out / survival?? Certainly won't bounce off any bear but is it what you need on foot in the woods? Far better than nothing and far..far...far better than any 22LR round..is 5.56.... but could a heavier 5.56 be better.? It looks for this round like ....maybe/probably .....yes! Will take a close look into the heavier rounds. While they don't pulverize small prey/ penetrate steel..... the way lighter-faster moving-projectiles do they may be a much better "head for the hills" carry. Thanks |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 10:18:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the replies. I guess in the 77 OTM we're talking MK-262 ?? Definitely heavy for the cal but understandably we are...after all...talking about an ice-pick round. About 2 years ago my bug out rifle of consideration was an 22LR....probably an 10/22 takedown. Good rifle but no where near versatile enough especially if I encountered larger game. With 5.56/223 in 55g xm-193 you have the velocity even w/ 16"bbL to put a clear hole through 3/8" steel @ 200 yd but is that optimal for bug-out / survival?? Certainly won't bounce off any bear but is it what you need on foot in the woods? Far better than nothing and far..far...far better than any 22LR round..is 5.56.... but could a heavier 5.56 be better.? It looks for this round like ....maybe/probably .....yes! Will take a close look into the heavier rounds. While they don't pulverize small prey/ penetrate steel..... the way lighter-faster moving-projectiles do they may be a much better "head for the hills" carry. Thanks I settled on a "dual standard" for self defense ammo in 5.56 for most circumstances, On the one hand I have Black Hills 77gr TMK, which shows better terminal performance than than most OTM's while still being pretty accurate in almost all my barrels and on the other I have Federal Fusion MSR, which also shows good terminal performance and is acceptably accurate in every barrel I've tried it in. The TMK gives me the option of explosive terminal performance out to ~250 with a barrel as short as 10.5" or bonded, barrier penetration out to just under 300 with the MSR out of the same barrel. Those ranges only increase as a longer barrel is used. There is nothing saying you can't carry a couple different types of ammo 
What load is in my gun at any given moment would be based on METT-TC factors in a severe SHTF or TEOTWAWKI scenario. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 8:51:42 AM EDT
[#13]
These types of threads always come up and we discuss when shtf but never establish the how bad it has it the fan. Are we talking Katrina type hurricane where currently there is no law enforcement and we need to defend ourselves for a short time but can't go all Rambo on everything? Or is it the end of days law and order will not be coming back ever?
I always always gone with a hand full of mags loaded with the best sd ammo I could get. Then I stockpile m855 or other m193 types I'm currently playing the division and for those who don't know a bio weapon like small pox hits new York city and the city is quarantined and people are mostly left to fend for themselves This type of situation is far more realistic than zombies and while the high quality sd ammo is great unless you can afford to stock super deep on it the more cost effective way is having m855 or m193 might not be the best but it will work. To the op worried about bear and other game in the woods get a 308 or bigger for your bug out cabin. Keep the AR for 2 legged varmint |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 9:02:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
There is never going to be a one-size-fits-all answer but I'd like to hear what people think. Let me know what you think. yes training |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 11:17:41 PM EDT
[#15]
I've stocked mostly Speer GDSP, then equal amounts of Federal MSR, Fiocchi SP and Winchester Ranger PSP.
All are pretty much multi-purpose to me on a $.50 per/round volume stocking budget preference.. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 11:49:38 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 6/4/2016 7:46:12 PM EDT
[#17]
I've got Mk318 and Mk262Mod1 on tap for most social occasions. If I wanted to stockpile something I think M193 is the best "bulk" load.
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Posted: 6/4/2016 10:28:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 for Razor core. Though the AR is my go-to rifle I I don't think 5.56 is enough gun for bear... maybe for smaller black bears but definitely not enough for the larger game animals out West. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
77gr. SBK OTM mod1 razorcore. Talk about damage. I have 8 mags loaded with this stuff just in case shtf. All other mags are loaded with training ammo. +1 for Razor core. Though the AR is my go-to rifle I I don't think 5.56 is enough gun for bear... maybe for smaller black bears but definitely not enough for the larger game animals out West. Same here. Several mags with 77 razorcore for acute SHTF and many others with XM193 for long term. |
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Posted: 6/5/2016 4:37:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Only bonded soft points or TSX. If its too far to hit accurately with either, if you really need match accuracy and high BCs, then its far enough away to hide from. Channel the LRRPs when the SHTF.
Light is life. Hide to live. |
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Posted: 6/5/2016 9:47:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only bonded soft points or TSX. If its too far to hit accurately with either, if you really need match accuracy and high BCs, then its far enough away to hide from. Channel the LRRPs when the SHTF. Light is life. Hide to live. I don't think the high BC rounds were mentioned for long distance. The 77gr SMKs are heavy, good energy, good performance. The 77 razorcore performs very well in all my ARs, 10.5" and longer, from 0-500 yards (depending on barrel length). Sure, I doubt I would ever engage bad guys that far off, but I might have to harvest a deer at 300. It is good to have options. |
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Posted: 6/5/2016 3:29:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Another vote for 5.56 62 TSX.
Or Nosler 64 grain Bonded. They're expensive though. |
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Posted: 6/5/2016 3:35:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Are the 69gn SMK's worthy to stock up on? All the 77grn is out of stock... Looking to start storing some SMK's... If so... go with the IMI or will the .223 ADI stuff work?
Got plenty of M193's & M855 ammo laid back for rainy day use! |
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Posted: 6/5/2016 10:37:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the 69gn SMK's worthy to stock up on? All the 77grn is out of stock... Looking to start storing some SMK's... If so... go with the IMI or will the .223 ADI stuff work? Got plenty of M193's & M855 ammo laid back for rainy day use! 69gr SMK's aren't bad. |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 2:06:51 PM EDT
[#24]
As a new AR15 owner I'm really impressed with the S&W M&P15 I purchased. I have no illusions though as to it's effectiveness on large game after reading Mas Ayoob's
article on the Ohio private zoo escape. Multiple lions and tigers were put down and all required many many rounds of 5.56 and .308 in each animal to stop them. Fascinating read: http://americanhandgunner.com/lions-and-tigers-and-bears-for-real/ |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 2:46:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Most of my SHTF ammo has been reloaded by me. Like Eagle_19er, I use the two part ammo scenario. Half of my stash is Nosler 64 gr Bonded Solid Base and the other half is Sierra 77 gr Tipped Match Kings. This leaves me with the option to use a barrier blind expanding round or the better BC TMK's for longer shots or unobstructed targets. Loaded P-mags are color coated with green mags being the 64 BSB and black mags being the 77 TMK for quick and easy identification. I also have a surplus of 64 gr Gold Dots loaded in aluminum GI mags as back up to the first two loads. If all that is expended, their is another backup supply of M193
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Posted: 6/6/2016 3:31:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a new AR15 owner I'm really impressed with the S&W M&P15 I purchased. I have no illusions though as to it's effectiveness on large game after ready Mas Ayoob's article on the Ohio private zoo escape. Multiple lions and tigers were put down and all required many many rounds of 5.56 and .308 in each animal to stop them. Fascinating read: http://americanhandgunner.com/lions-and-tigers-and-bears-for-real/ Quote HistoryQuoted: As a new AR15 owner I'm really impressed with the S&W M&P15 I purchased. I have no illusions though as to it's effectiveness on large game after ready Mas Ayoob's article on the Ohio private zoo escape. Multiple lions and tigers were put down and all required many many rounds of 5.56 and .308 in each animal to stop them. Fascinating read: http://americanhandgunner.com/lions-and-tigers-and-bears-for-real/ 5.56 and 308 are pretty underpowered do large African animals, especially the large predatorsDon't take a slingshot to a gun fight. They are very effective on human sized targets though. |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 3:56:46 PM EDT
[#27]
I recall watching an episode of COPS or something where a Native Alaskan killed a wayward Polar Bear that went into the town schools playground and got too close to the kids, they showed a picture of an A1 variety AR so apparently enough 55gr could get it done
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Posted: 6/6/2016 4:25:20 PM EDT
[#28]
77gr OTM (Mk262) or the 77gr TMK
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Posted: 6/6/2016 4:45:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
69gr SMK's aren't bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are the 69gn SMK's worthy to stock up on? All the 77grn is out of stock... Looking to start storing some SMK's... If so... go with the IMI or will the .223 ADI stuff work? Got plenty of M193's & M855 ammo laid back for rainy day use! 69gr SMK's aren't bad. Thanks Eric! |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 5:19:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of my SHTF ammo has been reloaded by me. Like Eagle_19er, I use the two part ammo scenario. Half of my stash is Nosler 64 gr Bonded Solid Base and the other half is Sierra 77 gr Tipped Match Kings. This leaves me with the option to use a barrier blind expanding round or the better BC TMK's for longer shots or unobstructed targets. Loaded P-mags are color coated with green mags being the 64 BSB and black mags being the 77 TMK for quick and easy identification. I also have a surplus of 64 gr Gold Dots loaded in aluminum GI mags as back up to the first two loads. If all that is expended, their is another backup supply of M193 Yep, it just doesn't make sense to me to only have one load available at a given time, especially since we choose to use the relatively tiny, but also light weight 5.56 round. I liken it to having a couple different weights of hammers in my toolbox. Each has it's own use...come to think of it I own about 6 different hammers. Most of those hammers would work for most uses but each one excels at it's specific task. Ammo for an AR15 is no different in principle. |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 9:20:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Eagle19er, do you have different rifles sighted in for different ammo, or are going to hit the range and sight in a rifle during SHTF?
I DO understand your point, though. |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 9:59:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eagle19er, do you have different rifles sighted in for different ammo, or are going to hit the range and sight in a rifle during SHTF? I DO understand your point, though. I can't answer for eagle, but I can answer for me. I currently have dedicated AR's for each load. My 16" carbine is sighted in for the 64 gr Nosler BSB. My 20" precision is sighted in with the 77 TMK. That said, I have tested the 77 gr TMK's in my 16" and made some notes as to P.O.I. changes. I also have some notes for the 20" when using 64 BSB's. |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 11:37:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't answer for eagle, but I can answer for me. I currently have dedicated AR's for each load. My 16" carbine is sighted in for the 64 gr Nosler BSB. My 20" precision is sighted in with the 77 TMK. That said, I have tested the 77 gr TMK's in my 16" and made some notes as to P.O.I. changes. I also have some notes for the 20" when using 64 BSB's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Eagle19er, do you have different rifles sighted in for different ammo, or are going to hit the range and sight in a rifle during SHTF? I DO understand your point, though. I can't answer for eagle, but I can answer for me. I currently have dedicated AR's for each load. My 16" carbine is sighted in for the 64 gr Nosler BSB. My 20" precision is sighted in with the 77 TMK. That said, I have tested the 77 gr TMK's in my 16" and made some notes as to P.O.I. changes. I also have some notes for the 20" when using 64 BSB's. Very close to what I do Dieselman. Let's say I settle on two loads...TMK and MSR in my case. All my rifles, meaning 10.5, 12.5, 14.5 and 16 are zeroed for TMK because that's the round I'm most likely to shoot at a longer distance so it's the most important that that round has the true zero. (This is simply a judgement call on my part). Within 100 yds, MSR is close enough that it doesn't matter on a man sized target for "combat" shooting but I recorded POI shift in each rifle's notebook and can familiarize myself with the ballistics as needed (each rifle I would ever plan on using defensively has it's own DOPE book...yes I'm a bit OCD).
I've real world tested both loads out to 200 so I have actual data on where either bullet will hit out of any AR I currently own to that range. I wish I had a longer range to work with but that's what I've got at this point. Ballistic tables to 500 are the best I've got right now but they're also a pretty good starting point and are recorded in the various DOPE books for each rifle. ETA: I use Rite in the Rain 954 memo pads for my DOPE books. They're easy to stash in a pocket and take on the go if necessary. |
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Posted: 6/6/2016 11:47:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
If you were carrying just an AR 15 chambered in 5.56 and had to make a run deep into the wooded part of your state and be prepared for anything what round would you carry? You lost me at the deep wooded part of my state. I live in N.D. There aren't enough trees in anyone spot to make a deep run into the woods. I will tell you that in 22 cal we always loaded (for bolt action guns) 55gr sierra BLITZ bullets. (not blitzking, not that there is anything wrong with them, they just didn't have them when I was younger) They vaporized varmints and could take down deer just fine as well. If they come out with that ELD bullet in a .22 caliber, I would like to test that out and give it a try before I decided (if I have time before the world ends or whatever) 
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Posted: 6/9/2016 6:01:39 AM EDT
[#35]
A few years ago when 75gr OTM was all the rage, I acquired about six or seven thousand rounds of it.
So I'll be using that. |
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Posted: 6/9/2016 3:40:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a new AR15 owner I'm really impressed with the S&W M&P15 I purchased. I have no illusions though as to it's effectiveness on large game after reading Mas Ayoob's article on the Ohio private zoo escape. Multiple lions and tigers were put down and all required many many rounds of 5.56 and .308 in each animal to stop them. Fascinating read: http://americanhandgunner.com/lions-and-tigers-and-bears-for-real/ Interesting read, though the .223 used was 55 grain tap, which is known for being a very poor penetrator. Undoubtedly, while not ideal, fmj or bonded rounds would have performed better. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 1:14:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Man, some of you stash some spensive ammo. I'm jealous. I just stash M193 for all my killing needs. Which will probably most likely ever be is paper and clay. But my belief is it would work on a lot of warm blooded things.
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Posted: 6/10/2016 2:19:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, some of you stash some spensive ammo. I'm jealous. I just stash M193 for all my killing needs. Which will probably most likely ever be is paper and clay. But my belief is it would work on a lot of warm blooded things. Let's hope so! Yes it would, but a lot of us are suckers for a 5%, 10%, 25% increase in effectiveness |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:06:52 PM EDT
[#39]
A mag of whatever can be dropped on a moose, bear, or any other animal in 5-6 seconds. The animal won't survive. Animals with slower beating hearts like bears need a minimum of 15 seconds to bleed out and lose motor control. Your best bet would be rapid fire to hit a CNS component lIke the head. No living creature on this side of the world would stand a chance and bears are usually quite afraid of humans anyway. Even if a skull deflected a round or two, follow up shots would penetrate a cracked skull just like a ceramic plate. Just put a tree between you and any animal for stand off. Does your area even have grizzlies? Black bears are just like a large dog... not dangerous armed with any centerfire rifle.
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:20:50 PM EDT
[#40]
There's a reason why bonded soft points tend to track better going though auto glass. The exposed lead will blunt to conform to the angle of the glass and help it bite better. I would expect it to do the same to a bear skull.
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Posted: 6/11/2016 10:50:08 PM EDT
[#41]
For me right now what I have
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Posted: 6/19/2016 1:22:46 PM EDT
[#42]
After I have used every load made including mine own;I have concluded that (and no one else has to agree) that the caliber is just to weak.I will still use it but with a 16" barrel after 200 meters it is not that reliable and I really feel like Jeff Cooper and Elmer Keith were right.
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Posted: 6/19/2016 5:11:18 PM EDT
[#43]
My shtf is my SOCOM16 7.62
 However my son's and wife will have several mags of TAP 75 T2 bullet. Then U S issue M193, lots of it.
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Posted: 6/19/2016 7:51:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Ideally, cost not being a factor the Barnes 70gr TSX is very effective and versatile. Since cost is a factor for me, I've decided on the 62gr mk318, and the 62gr TSX when funds allow. Most of the time it's M855 as they have been close enough to zero.
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Posted: 6/20/2016 8:13:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Gold Dot FTW!
pick your flavor. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 9:55:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryThanks for the link ! It answered a lot of my questions. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 11:36:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, some of you stash some spensive ammo. I'm jealous. I just stash M193 for all my killing needs. Which will probably most likely ever be is paper and clay. But my belief is it would work on a lot of warm blooded things. Its much cheaper if you roll your own. I do almost exactly like diesels post on page 1. Except I use 64 grain TBBC which I got 2k off and reload them. I just took delivery of another 16 pounds of 8208 xbr and 2k 77 grain TMK to reload. Right now I have approx 32 pounds of 8208 xbr. which is about 9k worth of reloads. I have 1.5 k of 77 grain tmk reloaded and ready to go loaded up. If you wonder about failures of reloads I have never not had a round go bang in 15+ years of reloading. |
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Posted: 6/24/2016 9:16:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
If you were carrying just an AR 15 chambered in 5.56 and had to make a run deep into the wooded part of your state and be prepared for anything what round would you carry?... I'd be comfortable with any of several decent loads that I know my gun likes. Fusion MSR, PPU 69 HP and PPU 75 HP all do more than adequately accuracy-wise in my primary gun, and any one of them would suit me fine. There are very likely "better" rounds out there, but I don't have any experience with them. These three, I know my gun likes and runs well with, and I'd rather have a 'good' load that I know works well in my gun, than a 'great' load that I'm not sure if I can trust. |
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