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Posted: 4/19/2016 2:31:48 PM EDT
[#1]
I was told not to attempt to run steel through my AR until the rifle has a few thousand rounds through it because the chambers are tight.
I didn't take that advise and the only malfunctions I've had were from Tula. I've shot about 500 rounds so far so I put steel on the back burner until I get everything worked in. I was also told my AR was very tight compared to others. My advise would be to do the same. Shoot it with brass and try steel again when everything is broke in. A couple VETS gave me this advise. I'm an AK guy trying to love an AR. 
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Posted: 4/19/2016 3:19:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Give your chamber a good scrub and see if it's rough at all. I've never had an issue breaking a gun in with Tula.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 3:37:59 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a couple of DelTons and Tula wont work in either of them.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 3:49:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was told not to attempt to run steel through my AR until the rifle has a few thousand rounds through it because the chambers are tight. I didn't take that advise and the only malfunctions I've had were from Tula. I've shot about 500 rounds so far so I put steel on the back burner until I get everything worked in. I was also told my AR was very tight compared to others. My advise would be to do the same. Shoot it with brass and try steel again when everything is broke in. A couple VETS gave me this advise. I'm an AK guy trying to love an AR. Thanks for the reply, sounds like good advice. thanks. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 3:50:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Give your chamber a good scrub and see if it's rough at all. I've never had an issue breaking a gun in with Tula. Thanks for the suggestion. i gave it a good scrub when i got home and didn't notice anything. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 3:55:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a couple of DelTons and Tula wont work in either of them. Same issue or something different? The Tula seemed to cycle fine until then. I didn't have any issues with about 50/50 of Tula and brass. I may try to keep the steel to the first 100 or so rounds of a range trip and then switch to brass when it is hot. Thanks for the input. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 4:06:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same issue or something different? The Tula seemed to cycle fine until then. I didn't have any issues with about 50/50 of Tula and brass. I may try to keep the steel to the first 100 or so rounds of a range trip and then switch to brass when it is hot. Thanks for the input. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a couple of DelTons and Tula wont work in either of them. Same issue or something different? The Tula seemed to cycle fine until then. I didn't have any issues with about 50/50 of Tula and brass. I may try to keep the steel to the first 100 or so rounds of a range trip and then switch to brass when it is hot. Thanks for the input. same issue.... I reload now, so I just use my reloads. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 5:02:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
same issue.... I reload now, so I just use my reloads. Thanks, Reloading is definitely something i need to get into, I like to shoot too much not to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a couple of DelTons and Tula wont work in either of them. Same issue or something different? The Tula seemed to cycle fine until then. I didn't have any issues with about 50/50 of Tula and brass. I may try to keep the steel to the first 100 or so rounds of a range trip and then switch to brass when it is hot. Thanks for the input. I reload now, so I just use my reloads. Thanks, Reloading is definitely something i need to get into, I like to shoot too much not to. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 8:56:18 PM EDT
[#9]
The only time I have ever had that issue is when I was doing as you did, mixing brass cased ammo and then steel cased, Mind you this was years ago with my first AR, have not tried it since but have heard of others having the same issue.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:02:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Impossible, ive been assured steel cases are just as good. All joking aside the scrub the chamber recommendation is good. Keep a cleaning rod on hand to pound em out if it happens again.
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Posted: 4/20/2016 9:49:29 PM EDT
[#11]
AR and FAL should be fed brass cased ammo.
AK and SKS can eat steel ammo. Worked for me for 26 years and no stuck cases. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:09:44 PM EDT
[#12]
I shoot steel stuff in my DPMS zombie gun pretty often - zero malfunctions. 16" chrome lined, chamber is 556 IIRC. I have seen plenty of guys show up at the range, blaze through several hundred rounds of steel cased ammo of one kind or another - then take their AR home.
I guess the point is - many will cycle the stuff just fine. However - I wouldn't buy one thinking it will eat the stuff for certain every time. Also - not cycling it I wouldn't really consider a malfunction IF brass ammo worked reliably. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:14:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Its "no-go" in your rifle.
Now you know. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:28:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR and FAL should be fed brass cased ammo. AK and SKS can eat steel ammo. Worked for me for 26 years and no stuck cases. Steel cases get stuck. It isnt the coating either. It is has the do with the metal construction and how it expands especially around the neck to seal when firing. And something likely because of the rate that it conducts heat (heat expand/cold contract). That's about all I remember, but somebody gave correct scientific reason a while back and dispelled all of the speculation and myths going around. Basically stee does not behave the way brass does. It may not fully expand into the chamber when firing, not forming a tight deal, which allows carbon to pass into chamber and eventually foul it. Regardless, I would only use at the range (and I never really use it at all anyway) but I have seen plenty of stuck steel cases steel cases at the range and never a brass one. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:31:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Could it be a lube issue and the AR being too "dry"?
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Posted: 4/21/2016 8:08:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same issue or something different? The Tula seemed to cycle fine until then. I didn't have any issues with about 50/50 of Tula and brass. I may try to keep the steel to the first 100 or so rounds of a range trip and then switch to brass when it is hot. Thanks for the input. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a couple of DelTons and Tula wont work in either of them. Same issue or something different? The Tula seemed to cycle fine until then. I didn't have any issues with about 50/50 of Tula and brass. I may try to keep the steel to the first 100 or so rounds of a range trip and then switch to brass when it is hot. Thanks for the input. From what I have read, do the opposite. Steel won't expand and seal as well and can foul the chamber more. If you then shoot brass in the fouled chamber, the brass expands more and can get stuck in the fouling. I think (just from reading on here) that it is more common to have issues with stuck brass AFTER shooting steel. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 3:41:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Those are correct.
AKs and SKS which were designed from the ground up to run steel have slightly tapered cases. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 11:47:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Relatively new to the AR world, stuck mostly with AK's in the past. Built an AR on the cheap, Anderson lower with a Del-Ton mid-length upper. Took it out to the range for the first time today and was shooting a variety of brass and steel cased ammo. After a few hours and approx. 250 rounds, i had a spent steel case stuck in the chamber (Tula if memory serves me correctly). I ran the bolt a ew times and ripped the rim off the case but it wouldn't budge. I was able to get it out using a brass rod down the bore. I did some searching around and this seems to be pretty common because of the steel not retracting as fast as brass if i understood correctly. My question is is this common and steel cased is just a no go in AR's or is there something i should be doing and/or checking. Are there certain steel cased that work better than others? Or is it strictly stick to brass and if so any recommendations on the cheapest that will cycel without problems?Like i said coming from the AK world mostly the only thing i shoot is steel. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. The problem is that steel doesn't expand like brass, so you can get blowby into the chamber around the shell. Once excessive soot forms in the chamber, the next round gets stuck. It's an issue due to the straighter case of the 5.56 round. I don't know how 5.56 AKs avoid the issue - I have an Arsenal AK in 5.56, but haven't shot it much. With Wolf Gold available for ~30cpr, there isn't any reason not to shoot brass cases only. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 4:49:51 AM EDT
[#19]
I have to ask..
Did this upper have a chrome lines chamber? I see the they sell them chrome lined and non-chrome lined. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:05:08 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are correct. AKs and SKS which were designed from the ground up to run steel have slightly tapered cases. Source for this claim? |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:07:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR and FAL should be fed brass cased ammo. AK and SKS can eat steel ammo. Worked for me for 26 years and no stuck cases. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 7:58:50 AM EDT
[#22]
if you have problems with steel, a middy gas system will show it, and tula is shit.
There is nothing wrong with steel case, I shoot it exclusively in my m16 with no problems |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 8:37:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Impossible, ive been assured steel cases are just as good. All joking aside the scrub the chamber recommendation is good. Keep a cleaning rod on hand to pound em out if it happens again. Can you show me the post where someone told you it's just as good. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 8:51:53 AM EDT
[#24]
only issue i have ever had with steel is when mixing steel and brass....every once in awhile i can usually just mortar it out. last range trip i did have to push one out with a rod....but the only malfunctions i have see are when i mix brass and steel
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Posted: 4/27/2016 11:53:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Clean your chamber regularly and it won't be a problem. At least that is what I have observed. I also run a heavy spring and heavy buffer not sure if it helps or not but my Stag constantly had stuck cases on my bcm 14.5 carbine my Aero Precision 16in mid-length, and psa freedom mid-length all have heavy buffers and Springs. No stuck cases
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Posted: 4/27/2016 12:07:47 PM EDT
[#26]
An occasional stuck case is still worth the savings IMO. Of course if it gets stuck frequently, then all bets are off.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:35:37 PM EDT
[#27]
I never had problems with the old black box wolf when it was 10 cents per shot. I have had problems with a lot of Tula that I believe had a poor quality / rough polymer coating. I tumbling a couple hundred rounds in corn cob and that seems to have solved the issue. I am not buying Tula any more, but may get some brown bear soon. I also got some Golden Tiger 223 years ago that seems to run good.
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Posted: 4/29/2016 2:43:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Source for this claim? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Those are correct. AKs and SKS which were designed from the ground up to run steel have slightly tapered cases. Source for this claim? People like Ken Elmore. And aren't both the 7.62x39 and the 5.45 tapered cases? |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 7:59:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is that steel doesn't expand like brass, so you can get blowby into the chamber around the shell. Once excessive soot forms in the chamber, the next round gets stuck. It's an issue due to the straighter case of the 5.56 round. I don't know how 5.56 AKs avoid the issue - I have an Arsenal AK in 5.56, but haven't shot it much. With Wolf Gold available for ~30cpr, there isn't any reason not to shoot brass cases only. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Relatively new to the AR world, stuck mostly with AK's in the past. Built an AR on the cheap, Anderson lower with a Del-Ton mid-length upper. Took it out to the range for the first time today and was shooting a variety of brass and steel cased ammo. After a few hours and approx. 250 rounds, i had a spent steel case stuck in the chamber (Tula if memory serves me correctly). I ran the bolt a ew times and ripped the rim off the case but it wouldn't budge. I was able to get it out using a brass rod down the bore. I did some searching around and this seems to be pretty common because of the steel not retracting as fast as brass if i understood correctly. My question is is this common and steel cased is just a no go in AR's or is there something i should be doing and/or checking. Are there certain steel cased that work better than others? Or is it strictly stick to brass and if so any recommendations on the cheapest that will cycel without problems?Like i said coming from the AK world mostly the only thing i shoot is steel. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. The problem is that steel doesn't expand like brass, so you can get blowby into the chamber around the shell. Once excessive soot forms in the chamber, the next round gets stuck. It's an issue due to the straighter case of the 5.56 round. I don't know how 5.56 AKs avoid the issue - I have an Arsenal AK in 5.56, but haven't shot it much. With Wolf Gold available for ~30cpr, there isn't any reason not to shoot brass cases only. Larger extractor and over gassed. I'll try it with my 556 chambered aks clone next time. Both of mine are chromed bore and chamber though and kit builds. I have experienced the stuck steel case and it usually takes about three magazines of 556 steel. Then if I don't clean the chamber they will stick. We are talking 16" carbine gas which is claimed to be the most likely offender. |
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Posted: 4/30/2016 1:06:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Steel-case AR shooters make every shot count.
...because they know it might be the only shot they get. |
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Posted: 5/1/2016 7:40:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Steel cased ammo is for commie guns
Remember, life is too short to shoot shitty ammo |
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Posted: 5/1/2016 8:31:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Steel cased ammo is for commie guns Remember, life is too short to shoot shitty ammo no this line of thinking is retarded. there is nothing wrong with shooting steel cased ammo. it doesn't harm your barrel and it doesn't hurt your extractor. Use a heavy buffer like the St-T2 and clean your chamber a good video on shooting wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960 |
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Posted: 5/1/2016 9:07:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no this line of thinking is retarded. there is nothing wrong with shooting steel cased ammo. it doesn't harm your barrel and it doesn't hurt your extractor. Use a heavy buffer like the St-T2 and clean your chamber a good video on shooting wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Steel cased ammo is for commie guns Remember, life is too short to shoot shitty ammo no this line of thinking is retarded. there is nothing wrong with shooting steel cased ammo. it doesn't harm your barrel and it doesn't hurt your extractor. Use a heavy buffer like the St-T2 and clean your chamber a good video on shooting wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960 You can preach all day long, I'll stick to brass |
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Posted: 5/2/2016 7:21:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can preach all day long, I'll stick to brass Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Steel cased ammo is for commie guns Remember, life is too short to shoot shitty ammo no this line of thinking is retarded. there is nothing wrong with shooting steel cased ammo. it doesn't harm your barrel and it doesn't hurt your extractor. Use a heavy buffer like the St-T2 and clean your chamber a good video on shooting wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960 You can preach all day long, I'll stick to brass I'm with dpmmn, never planning to shoot any steel ammo in my rifles. Tried some Tula 40S&W during the shortage of brass cased ammo.........meh |
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Posted: 5/5/2016 8:48:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Im not shooting steel cased ammo in an AR. No way in hell. I have seen too many stuck cases that way.
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Posted: 5/5/2016 11:29:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Steel-case AR shooters make every shot count. ...because they know it might be the only shot they get. i don't think I've ever seen someone advocate steel case ammo for serious purposes. Can you link me to the post? |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 6:36:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Source for this claim? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Those are correct. AKs and SKS which were designed from the ground up to run steel have slightly tapered cases. Source for this claim? Seconded. Were they? Or is that all communism could afford? |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 6:42:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im not shooting steel cased ammo in an AR. No way in hell. I have seen too many stuck cases that way. Want to know why? Most cheap AR manufacturers run rifle extractor inserts and springs in carbines because they don't know any better, or their chambers are out of spec. My LMT and BCMs run fine. If a rifle can't shoot and extract steel case, it's a piece of shit and belongs in the garbage. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extractor-Spring-Uprade-Kit-p/bcm-exspring-1.htm |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 6:50:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Want to know why? Most cheap AR manufacturers run rifle extractor inserts and springs in carbines because they don't know any better, or their chambers are out of spec. My LMT and BCMs run fine. If a rifle can't shoot and extract steel case, it's a piece of shit and belongs in the garbage. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extractor-Spring-Uprade-Kit-p/bcm-exspring-1.htm Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Im not shooting steel cased ammo in an AR. No way in hell. I have seen too many stuck cases that way. Want to know why? Most cheap AR manufacturers run rifle extractor inserts and springs in carbines because they don't know any better, or their chambers are out of spec. My LMT and BCMs run fine. If a rifle can't shoot and extract steel case, it's a piece of shit and belongs in the garbage. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extractor-Spring-Uprade-Kit-p/bcm-exspring-1.htm Oh yeah? One of my friends, who is a member here (csm????), got a steel case stuck with a Colt 6920, while we were shooting one day. On the same day, another friend of mine, member daemon734, got a steel case stuck in his rifle. It's got nothing to do with cheap rifles. For many, many years steel cases have been sticking in the chambers of AR's. Quality or not. If someone chooses to deny this fact, that's their problem. This isn't a new problem. It's existed for many years and as such, I choose to not use steel cases in AR's. If you do, fine. I don't care |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 7:07:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah? One of my friends, who is a member here (csm????), got a steel case stuck with a Colt 6920, while we were shooting one day. On the same day, another friend of mine, member daemon734, got a steel case stuck in his rifle. It's got nothing to do with cheap rifles. For many, many years steel cases have been sticking in the chambers of AR's. Quality or not. If someone chooses to deny this fact, that's their problem. This isn't a new problem. It's existed for many years and as such, I choose to not use steel cases in AR's. If you do, fine. I don't care Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im not shooting steel cased ammo in an AR. No way in hell. I have seen too many stuck cases that way. Want to know why? Most cheap AR manufacturers run rifle extractor inserts and springs in carbines because they don't know any better, or their chambers are out of spec. My LMT and BCMs run fine. If a rifle can't shoot and extract steel case, it's a piece of shit and belongs in the garbage. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extractor-Spring-Uprade-Kit-p/bcm-exspring-1.htm Oh yeah? One of my friends, who is a member here (csm????), got a steel case stuck with a Colt 6920, while we were shooting one day. On the same day, another friend of mine, member daemon734, got a steel case stuck in his rifle. It's got nothing to do with cheap rifles. For many, many years steel cases have been sticking in the chambers of AR's. Quality or not. If someone chooses to deny this fact, that's their problem. This isn't a new problem. It's existed for many years and as such, I choose to not use steel cases in AR's. If you do, fine. I don't care This, Steel case production is more problematic. It is harder to work, requires more processing, and is more likely to have inconsistencies which Russians design for at the chamber. I was lucky enough to visit one of the largest steel case facilities in the world. 7.62x39mm and 5.45 ammo/weapons were designed for steel cases and ease of extraction. The soviet designers have commented and criticised .223 for its case design as not the best for semi auto's. There is a good documentary in Russian about the AK 5.45 and m16 it mentions something along that line. |
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