User Panel
Posted: 1/10/2016 6:08:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
Federal 62 Grain Fusion vs Federal 62 Grain Fusion MSR vs Speer LE 62 Grain Gold Dot
Attached File The muzzle velocities shown in the tables below were obtained back-to-back during the same chronograph session using recent lots of all three of the Fusion/Gold Dot loads chrongographed. Atmospheric Conditions Temperature: 73 degrees F (plus or minus one degree) Barometric Pressure: 29.68 inches of Hg Humidity: 62% Altitude: 950 feet above sea level Muzzle velocities from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist. Attached File Muzzle velocities from a 14.5 Noveske N4 light barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7’ twist. Attached File 10-shot groups were fired from one of my precision AR-15s with a Lothar-Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8” twist. The groups were fired from the bench at a distance of 100 yards with the same sight settings on the scope for each of the three groups. Attached File Attached File Attached File . Attached File Left to right: 1. 62 grain Fusion, 2. 62 grain Gold Dot, 3. 64 grain Gold Dot, 4. 75 grain Gold Dot ... |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Great post!!
I grabbed some of the standard Fusion from Mass Ammo on Black Friday so from looking at this test it appears to be slightly more accurate (in your rifle) but a little slower than the MSR version. Did you notice any difference with regards to primers between them as far as pressure signs? |
|
|
All three loads look to be outstanding! There has been good feedback by a lot of the guys here, but anecdotal. This shows how good they are. Thanks, Molon, this is a great service you are providing us.
|
|
|
Thanks for these awesome posts.
|
|
|
Thanks Molon, good to see this again. I screenshotted all the results from when this was posted in the past.
|
|
|
My experience is that the 223 Fusion is more accurate than the MSR
|
|
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/ |
Thanks for posting
|
|
<font size=3>IYAOYAS</font id=s3>
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length? What is your opinion or thoughts in shooting any of these rounds out of a 1 in 9" barrel? Curious how this might perform in a AUG... View Quote I'll pull one and measure it, but a 1:9" twist is great for these. ... |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By Molon: I'll pull one and measure it, but a 1:9" twist is great for these. ... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By Buck_Naked: Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length? What is your opinion or thoughts in shooting any of these rounds out of a 1 in 9" barrel? Curious how this might perform in a AUG... I'll pull one and measure it, but a 1:9" twist is great for these. ... I also want to say its great to see your posts again! I always enjoy the information you provide! |
|
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By Buck_Naked: Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length? 0.808" ... https://www.federalpremium.com/products/brands/fusion.aspx The bullet design is more traditional than I expected, with apparent enhancements made through the way the jacket appears to be bonded (fused) to the core... Thanks again Molon! |
|
|
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked: Thanks! I was expecting the bullet to be longer... I hadn't seen a cross section and I thought there was more copper in the base... did a search for a cross section and found this link: https://www.federalpremium.com/products/brands/fusion.aspx The bullet design is more traditional than I expected, with apparent enhancements made through the way the jacket appears to be bonded (fused) to the core... Thanks again Molon! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Buck_Naked: Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By Buck_Naked: Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length? 0.808" ... https://www.federalpremium.com/products/brands/fusion.aspx The bullet design is more traditional than I expected, with apparent enhancements made through the way the jacket appears to be bonded (fused) to the core... Thanks again Molon! The pic below shows the cross section of a 64 grain Gold Dot, which has a length of 0.825" and is nearly identical in construction to the 62 grain versions along with the cross section of the 62 grain Fusion. Attached File Attached File Attached File .... |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Outstanding work Molon! Have you by any chance tested either the Gold Dot or Fusion MSR 150gr in .308?
|
|
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Thanks Molon, I've been waiting for a three way comparison of these rounds. I've shot all three of them and thought they all seemed pretty similar to each other.
|
|
|
|
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Wasn't even looking for this, but definitely glad I found it. Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet?
|
|
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By Molon:
I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner. ... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By ocshaman:
Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet? I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner. ... Hammer* :P Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review? |
|
|
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By ocshaman:
Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet? I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner. ... Hammer* :P Time for me to get some sleep. |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Hammer* :P Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By ocshaman:
Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet? I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner. ... Hammer* :P Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review? When the weather warms up. |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
.
Attached File Left to right: 1. 62 grain Fusion, 2. 62 grain Gold Dot, 3. 64 grain Gold Dot, 4. 75 grain Gold Dot ... |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
So, can we say that the Fed. Fusion 62gr is the same bullet as the 62gr Gold Dot? I cannot discern any difference, except maybe with the cannelure. But that may just be me or the lighting in the picture...
|
|
|
Have you compared the powder charge in the MSR, Fusion, and Gold Dot LE 62gr loadings?
|
|
|
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
So, can we say that the Fed. Fusion 62gr is the same bullet as the 62gr Gold Dot? I cannot discern any difference, except maybe with the cannelure. But that may just be me or the lighting in the picture... View Quote To me it looks like the 62gr gold dot has a fatter ogive than the 62gr fusion bullet. |
|
|
I just scored 500 rounds of the Speer 64 Grain Gold Dot from Palmetto State Armory for $9.99 a box plus shipping!
Should be enough to last me a lifetime for SD and Hunting use. |
|
Your body can never go where your mind has never been.
|
I now have 800 rounds of the regular 62gr Fusion. Guess I should shoot some
|
|
|
Originally Posted By BigHunt:
I just scored 500 rounds of the Speer 64 Grain Gold Dot from Palmetto State Armory for $9.99 a box plus shipping! Should be enough to last me a lifetime for SD and Hunting use. View Quote I just picked several boxes myself. I think this is good hunting/self defense ammo for the money at $9.99 box. |
|
|
From my prior experience, 62 and even 64 grain fusion loads will stabilize fine in 1-12 twist barrels.
|
|
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review? View Quote http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/694384_Range_Report___Speer_LE_75_Grain_Gold_Dot.html ... |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Post election ammo hoarding bump
|
|
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/ |
I've fired all 3 of these ammo in one of my 18" 1-7" twist AR hunting rifle and they seemed like identical load.
All 3 had very similar/same velocity and accuracy. Best of all they have same POA/POI out of that rifle when I shoot 5 round groups. |
|
|
Originally Posted By yobo:
I've fired all 3 of these ammo in one of my 18" 1-7" twist AR hunting rifle and they seemed like identical load. All 3 had very similar/same velocity and accuracy. Best of all they have same POA/POI out of that rifle when I shoot 5 round groups. View Quote I was wandering the same thing. I noticed with Molon's post the POI was very similar to justify buying whichever is available at the time. I seriously doubt any major POI differences with any of these rounds. Your post also help steer me in the direction of keeping this round for hunting purposes. |
|
|
I reload the Fusion 62 grain bullets with CFE 223 with 27.3 grains to get out of a 18" barrel 2872 fps. I shot a 20 round box of Federal Fusion MSR as the control group and matched my reloads to match the same fps out to the same rifle. I measured it with a Magnetospeed V3. With my reloads the group size is less than 1". It is very accurate out to 400 yards. I have not shot it any further. It is my SHTF load. Has almost the same point of aim/point of impact as the 62 FMJ bullet with steel penetrator. Perhaps .5 " different at 400 yards. I practice with 62 FMJ, but for personal defense it is the Fusion I would use. I have not seen any overpressure signs on the primers or cases. I have shot perhaps 500 rounds and all are consistent in accuracy. The Fusion bullet does not penetrate as far as the FMJ on hard surfaces such as wood, or metal, but on a soft target it destroys it. It is a very good hunting round. A friend uses them on deer and raves about how accurate and consistent the 308 Fusion has been.
|
|
|
Currently stock pileing MSRs for HD/hunting rounds
|
|
|
I wish the pictures would still show up on this thread. It's almost impossible to read for reference, now.
|
|
|
If I could find where Molon is posting now, I'd be there in a hot second
|
|
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. https://welltrainedmind.com/a/classical-education/ |
Originally Posted By Appalachian_Hollers:
I wish the pictures would still show up on this thread. It's almost impossible to read for reference, now. View Quote Not sure how to find a comprehensive list of what's archived, but if you put "molon [name of ammo you're looking for]" in Google, you can sometimes find an archived page with pics still intact. |
|
|
Thank You from everyone !! ( And sure miss Molons dogged pursuit for our benefit )
FWIW... this link will help with your google search.. Molon Reference Links |
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. TOGC,IADC |
Fusion shoots pretty good in my Colt 6720 lightweight upper. I try to buy whatever is available so I have a mix of the MSR and .223 offerings.
|
|
Member of Team Ranstad
|
Any chance of getting the images fixed?
|
|
|
|
Not gonna doit.
|
|
|
Thanks OP! Second batch of pics fixed would be great too.
|
|
|
FWIW, the 62gr Fusion bullet is the same as the 62gr Gold Dot JSP. Going to the Speer Gold Dot essentially gives you nickel-plated brass and a low/no flash powder.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By Glock9mm1990: Would like to see them fixed as well. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Glock9mm1990: Originally Posted By 11C1P: Any chance of getting the images fixed? Would like to see them fixed as well. additional broken picture-links repaired |
|
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
@Molon
Thank you very much for completing the needed fixes. Your work is incredibly valuable. Thanks for all that you do, Molon. If you were to ever make a book out of all the information you have posted, I’d buy it. |
|
Perico y Tuga por vida. Siempre te voy amar.
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.