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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:28:36 AM EDT
I purchased Tulammo .223 from Walmart, 55gr, it had the regular Tula black box, but when I opened it the jacket is made of white metal, lighter in color than the steel casing. I found a lot of info about steel metal jacket covered in copper, but noting about these. Does anyone have more info on this ammo and is it safe to shoot. The general opinion is that is not good for the rifling.
The box did not say bimetal jacket, it only said steel case, non corrosive, Berdan primed. The bullet does stick to a magnet. Here is an image of the box and the round itself. 
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Posted: 9/27/2015 12:59:59 PM EDT
[#1]
I have alot of that stuff but non of it has bullets like that. I am interested to see what the deal is with them.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:16:44 PM EDT
[#2]
That is weird, never seen them like that before. I'd guess that they didn't get the copper wash or plating that is normal.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 1:32:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Nickel plated?
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Posted: 9/27/2015 3:04:49 PM EDT
[#4]
UPDATE:
It is definitely steel jacket. I cut the tip of the bullet, which is hollow and the piece sticks to a magnet. The shavings also stick to the magnet. I did pretty good damage to it with the pliers, it is relatively soft metal. I have no idea how to check if it has nickel plating or some kind of other white metal plating. I don't have the tools to cut it along side, i wish I did. See image below. 
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Posted: 9/27/2015 4:59:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Interesting, this is new.
Do me a favor, take some time to try and do some careful accuracy testing. The biggest problem accuracy-wise with Russian Wolf Steel ammo isn't the powder or the casing, it's crap quality bullet they use. If they changed the jacket of the bullet, I wonder what else they changed in the bullet. I'd be curious to see how consistent the bullet weights are, and how well it prints on paper compared to the junky more conventional Wolf Steel ammo. If you do accuracy testing, please post the findings in this tread - subscribed. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 8:05:41 PM EDT
[#6]
I picked up a case of Tulammo in 9mm. Every 9mm bullet, in the case, has the same coloring as your .223 bullet.
I tried to do some research but could not find anything about the new silver colored bullets. I sent an email to Tula but have not heard anything back. Hopefully someone here has an answer. |
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Posted: 9/27/2015 8:49:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Could be saving money by not doing the copperwash of the bullets.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 10:35:57 PM EDT
[#8]
The copper wash on these bullets was cosmetic, mostly to prevent rust.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:04:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Here's an interesting read.
http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 |
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Posted: 9/30/2015 11:18:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Its a quality control issue for sure.
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Posted: 10/1/2015 1:08:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's an interesting read. http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 Great read |
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Posted: 10/1/2015 12:18:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Somebody forgot the copperwash.
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Posted: 10/1/2015 3:54:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Just wondered if you received a reply from Tulammo.
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Posted: 10/1/2015 8:16:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's an interesting read. http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 That's interesting, but the author did not take into account that the steel used in bimetal jackets is extremely soft, pretty much as soft as the gilding metal used in traditional US jackets. Just because it's "steel" doesn't mean that it is able to damage barrels - remember, hard steel tools are used to cut and form (softer) steel parts without undue wear. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:33:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Your bullets may have a QC issue where the cover was not applied.
IN any event thats VERY soft steel... and I run Steel cased bimetal bullets all the time. I consider Tula55gr to be generally the bottom of the ammo selection even by steel standards but it runs fine in my most tolerant rifles LWRC M6A2 and a Delton I used to have. All my rifles get fed steel almost exclusively and I shoot approx 1000 rds a month in most months. But they usually get what I consider the upper end of steel case (Silver Bear 62gr or Wolf Military Classic 62gr) For some reason the 62gr steel seem to have better QC and even seem loaded a tad closer to US spec. Wolf Military classic 62gr HP tests time again and at 1.5 MOA for me out of my 1 in 7 CHF barrels. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:59:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your bullets may have a QC issue where the cover was not applied. IN any event thats VERY soft steel... and I run Steel cased bimetal bullets all the time. I consider Tula55gr to be generally the bottom of the ammo selection even by steel standards but it runs fine in my most tolerant rifles LWRC M6A2 and a Delton I used to have. All my rifles get fed steel almost exclusively and I shoot approx 1000 rds a month in most months. But they usually get what I consider the upper end of steel case (Silver Bear 62gr or Wolf Military Classic 62gr) For some reason the 62gr steel seem to have better QC and even seem loaded a tad closer to US spec. Wolf Military classic 62gr HP tests time again and at 1.5 MOA for me out of my 1 in 7 CHF barrels. Wolf Military Classic and .223 Silver Bear are both made by the Ulyanovsk ammunition company per the ComBloc Ammo FAQ (part of the Ammunition Forum FAQ list). I've used Barnaul-branded and Barnaul-made "Monarch Steel" (from Academy Sports) with very positive results. I like pointing out that most of people's bad impression of "all @#$%ing Russian ammo" being crap comes from Tula, which used to make Wolf black box (packaged very much like current TulAmmo offerings). |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 8:00:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's interesting, but the author did not take into account that the steel used in bimetal jackets is extremely soft, pretty much as soft as the gilding metal used in traditional US jackets. Just because it's "steel" doesn't mean that it is able to damage barrels - remember, hard steel tools are used to cut and form (softer) steel parts without undue wear. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here's an interesting read. http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 That's interesting, but the author did not take into account that the steel used in bimetal jackets is extremely soft, pretty much as soft as the gilding metal used in traditional US jackets. Just because it's "steel" doesn't mean that it is able to damage barrels - remember, hard steel tools are used to cut and form (softer) steel parts without undue wear. But unfortunately it DOES damage barrels: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ (Yep -the lucky gunner test............ all over again)................. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 8:42:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But unfortunately it DOES damage barrels: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ (Yep -the lucky gunner test............ all over again)................. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's an interesting read. http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 That's interesting, but the author did not take into account that the steel used in bimetal jackets is extremely soft, pretty much as soft as the gilding metal used in traditional US jackets. Just because it's "steel" doesn't mean that it is able to damage barrels - remember, hard steel tools are used to cut and form (softer) steel parts without undue wear. But unfortunately it DOES damage barrels: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ (Yep -the lucky gunner test............ all over again)................. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 5:14:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Why bother with any of those tests you've suggested?
-The first linked article shows in minute detail the problem with the bi metal bullets and you excuse it by saying the steel in the bullet is soft. -You excuse Lucky gunners test, which shows how much damage the bullets can do to a barrel, by saying its the powder. Why bother testing it because when you buy the Russian ammunition you buy the powder and bullet as is. So there is no point in testing them separately. When you buy Russian ammo - your get their bullet, case, powder and primer.............. But even by your beliefs, the Russian powder (which is what is in Tula, etc) is still going to mess up your barrel. So another reason to either stay away from it and spare your barrel or accept that the Russian stuff will destroy your barrel sooner and be prepared to replace it. I'll blame the bullet, you can blame the powder- either way- the Russian stuff eats barrels. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 9:21:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why bother with any of those tests you've suggested? -The first linked article shows in minute detail the problem with the bi metal bullets and you excuse it by saying the steel in the bullet is soft. -You excuse Lucky gunners test, which shows how much damage the bullets can do to a barrel, by saying its the powder. Why bother testing it because when you buy the Russian ammunition you buy the powder and bullet as is. So there is no point in testing them separately. When you buy Russian ammo - your get their bullet, case, powder and primer.............. But even by your beliefs, the Russian powder (which is what is in Tula, etc) is still going to mess up your barrel. So another reason to either stay away from it and spare your barrel or accept that the Russian stuff will destroy your barrel sooner and be prepared to replace it. I'll blame the bullet, you can blame the powder- either way- the Russian stuff eats barrels. I have to agree. I've seen it said a couple times that "Oh it's not the bullet, it's the powder" Which is just silly - because you can't buy the steel bullet ammo w/out that powder. And it's not even true anyway. I know a match shooter that pulls down Wolf ammo specifically for the powder for making his match practice ammo. Why he does this, I have no fricken idea, but in any event, he's shooting Wolf powder down his BBL's with no complaints (anecdotal, but at least something). Also, Carl Gustaf steel bullet M855 is only available to American shooters last year because the Norwegian army forced them to take it back, because it was wrecking their AR BBL's (and making people sick - it was an exceptionally dumb bullet design in their case). That's with European powder. I love all the attempts people try to do to discount the Lucky Gunner test - which is by far the most scientific and documented analysis on the topic yet. But people who claim to shoot steel all the time with no obvious ill effects, think their anecdotal data disproves it. The only real flaw with the Lucky Gunner test is that they probably ran the guns too hot, which accelerated wear more than a typical shooter might experience. THAT, I'll give credit to, but the whole "it's not the bullet, it's the powder" is a useless argument, and I've yet to see any evidence is true (and some evidence to suggest it is NOT true). Just my 2 cents. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 12:50:46 PM EDT
[#21]
I agree that it's "silly" since the only way these bimetal bullets are available is by buying those rounds - with that powder.
But about half of US-made M80 7.62x51 NATO ammunition has steel jacketed, "bimetal" bullets in it... And I don't think we're destroying M14s with that stuff. I have said my piece, and I'll stand behind it. I'm not saying that steel jacketed bullets can't be a problem, but the excessive wear shown in the Lucky Gunner tests is primarily due to erosion from the high temperature gasses generated by the powder used in the Russian ammo. I am a fact-oriented person, and you simply cannot ignore what that powder did, let alone isolate the contribution of the bullet to the wear seen in those tests. What gets me is blaming ONLY the bullets and ignoring the powder - when most of us will agree that whatever powder Tula uses is crappy. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 1:21:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wolf Military Classic and .223 Silver Bear are both made by the Ulyanovsk ammunition company per the ComBloc Ammo FAQ (part of the Ammunition Forum FAQ list). I've used Barnaul-branded and Barnaul-made "Monarch Steel" (from Academy Sports) with very positive results. I like pointing out that most of people's bad impression of "all @#$%ing Russian ammo" being crap comes from Tula, which used to make Wolf black box (packaged very much like current TulAmmo offerings). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your bullets may have a QC issue where the cover was not applied. IN any event thats VERY soft steel... and I run Steel cased bimetal bullets all the time. I consider Tula55gr to be generally the bottom of the ammo selection even by steel standards but it runs fine in my most tolerant rifles LWRC M6A2 and a Delton I used to have. All my rifles get fed steel almost exclusively and I shoot approx 1000 rds a month in most months. But they usually get what I consider the upper end of steel case (Silver Bear 62gr or Wolf Military Classic 62gr) For some reason the 62gr steel seem to have better QC and even seem loaded a tad closer to US spec. Wolf Military classic 62gr HP tests time again and at 1.5 MOA for me out of my 1 in 7 CHF barrels. Wolf Military Classic and .223 Silver Bear are both made by the Ulyanovsk ammunition company per the ComBloc Ammo FAQ (part of the Ammunition Forum FAQ list). I've used Barnaul-branded and Barnaul-made "Monarch Steel" (from Academy Sports) with very positive results. I like pointing out that most of people's bad impression of "all @#$%ing Russian ammo" being crap comes from Tula, which used to make Wolf black box (packaged very much like current TulAmmo offerings). I understand Wolf MC and All the "bear" ammo is now made at Barnaul and no longer at Ulyanovsk. :) |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 1:23:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But unfortunately it DOES damage barrels: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ (Yep -the lucky gunner test............ all over again)................. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's an interesting read. http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 That's interesting, but the author did not take into account that the steel used in bimetal jackets is extremely soft, pretty much as soft as the gilding metal used in traditional US jackets. Just because it's "steel" doesn't mean that it is able to damage barrels - remember, hard steel tools are used to cut and form (softer) steel parts without undue wear. But unfortunately it DOES damage barrels: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ (Yep -the lucky gunner test............ all over again)................. But it DOES NOT damage them to a degree thats economically meaningful. Why? Because for the barrel wear to even be an issue you have to be a high volume shooter.. But if you are a high volume shooter the money saved by buying russian ammo for the life of your barrel will buy you LOTS more barrels. Compared to Ammo, barrels are cheap... |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 3:35:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand Wolf MC and All the "bear" ammo is now made at Barnaul and no longer at Ulyanovsk. :) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your bullets may have a QC issue where the cover was not applied. IN any event thats VERY soft steel... and I run Steel cased bimetal bullets all the time. I consider Tula55gr to be generally the bottom of the ammo selection even by steel standards but it runs fine in my most tolerant rifles LWRC M6A2 and a Delton I used to have. All my rifles get fed steel almost exclusively and I shoot approx 1000 rds a month in most months. But they usually get what I consider the upper end of steel case (Silver Bear 62gr or Wolf Military Classic 62gr) For some reason the 62gr steel seem to have better QC and even seem loaded a tad closer to US spec. Wolf Military classic 62gr HP tests time again and at 1.5 MOA for me out of my 1 in 7 CHF barrels. Wolf Military Classic and .223 Silver Bear are both made by the Ulyanovsk ammunition company per the ComBloc Ammo FAQ (part of the Ammunition Forum FAQ list). I've used Barnaul-branded and Barnaul-made "Monarch Steel" (from Academy Sports) with very positive results. I like pointing out that most of people's bad impression of "all @#$%ing Russian ammo" being crap comes from Tula, which used to make Wolf black box (packaged very much like current TulAmmo offerings). I understand Wolf MC and All the "bear" ammo is now made at Barnaul and no longer at Ulyanovsk. :) I "hear that" too, but I can't verify it, so I quoted the FAQ. Barnaul makes good stuff. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 4:01:09 PM EDT
[#25]
I bet they skipped the copper wash process to speed up manufacturing. Possibly no inventory to load new ammo up. Get it done and in the export process or shut down and wait.
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Posted: 10/3/2015 8:07:13 PM EDT
[#26]
GHPorter:
And this is why these threads go full circle over and over again....................... The first article explains in minute detail the THICKNESS of the Russian jacket........... that is the issue- it is too thin and exposes the steel core. The other jackets are thicker. So that argument is apples to oranges....................... Powder doesn't wear the length of the barrel as shown in the Lucky Gunner tests, the throat sure, not the length of it. After that... we can agree. (That is the powder used probably contributes to the wear) BlueZ: Yes- that is exactly what Lucky Gunner says in their article. Thank you for quoting them. Shoot Russian stuff if you want........... replace the barrel if you need to.............. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 8:44:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GHPorter: And this is why these threads go full circle over and over again....................... The first article explains in minute detail the THICKNESS of the Russian jacket........... that is the issue- it is too thin and exposes the steel core. The other jackets are thicker. So that argument is apples to oranges....................... Powder doesn't wear the length of the barrel as shown in the Lucky Gunner tests, the throat sure, not the length of it. After that... we can agree. (That is the powder used probably contributes to the wear) BlueZ: Yes- that is exactly what Lucky Gunner says in their article. Thank you for quoting them. Shoot Russian stuff if you want........... replace the barrel if you need to.............. As long as you dont mind weak loads and the issues that come with weak loads. Barrel wear is only part of the issue with Wolf /Tula. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 10:06:00 PM EDT
[#28]
I bought 5 boxes last week and they all have the silver bullet.
Did some searching around and found this: TulAmmo is converting from a Bimetal Jacketed projectile to a Zinc Coated projectile. Zinc coating is a chemical method of surface treatment (galvanizing) which gives the bullet jacket a more uniform and consistent protective layer than that of machine-stamped bimetal bullet jackets. Thanks to this, cartridges with zinc-coated bullets provide up to 10-15% better shooting accuracy than cartridges with bimetal bullets. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 10:12:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought 5 boxes last week and they all have the silver bullet. Did some searching around and found this: TulAmmo is converting from a Bimetal Jacketed projectile to a Zinc Coated projectile. Zinc coating is a chemical method of surface treatment (galvanizing) which gives the bullet jacket a more uniform and consistent protective layer than that of machine-stamped bimetal bullet jackets. Thanks to this, cartridges with zinc-coated bullets provide up to 10-15% better shooting accuracy than cartridges with bimetal bullets. That's interesting, where'd you read that? I don't see how it would change the accuracy, isn't it the exact same bullet just with a different coating? Isn't the coating microdick thick? |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 10:40:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Found it on the ammo description for Tulammo on the CTD website.
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Posted: 10/3/2015 11:14:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryAs long as you dont mind weak loads and the issues that come with weak loads. Barrel wear is only part of the issue with Wolf /Tula. I would not throw Wolf and Tula in the same pot. Wolf is definitely upmarket from Tula. Never, ever had a malfunction with Wolf and I 've shot a LOT of it past couple years. Its only 2 cents more a round .. Also I noticed that for reasons unbeknowst to me, the 62gr Wolf + Bear seem to be loaded hotter than the 55gr. In other words, the 55gr grain is a bigger %age off spec from M193 speeds than the 62gr is off spec from M855 speeds. Add to this that the Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Wolf Mil Classic are significantly more accurate than all M855 loads I ever bothered to check accuracy on then I can say those products are WAY above a Tula 55gr... Tula 55gr I will only use as a training load and only when I get it for cheap... Wolf Mil Classic 62gr HP or Silver Bear 62gr I have no problem to stash as a real use SHTF round. And for caching out of the house, the Brown Bear 62gr is great, as its also barnaul and the laquer on the Brown bear makes it very resilient for long term storage. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:48:21 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did some searching around and found this: TulAmmo is converting from a Bimetal Jacketed projectile to a Zinc Coated projectile. Zinc coating is a chemical method of surface treatment (galvanizing) which gives the bullet jacket a more uniform and consistent protective layer than that of machine-stamped bimetal bullet jackets. Thanks to this, cartridges with zinc-coated bullets provide up to 10-15% better shooting accuracy than cartridges with bimetal bullets. Ive been wondering about this the past week or so. Weve been shooting 223 and 9mm Tula for years now for cheap range ammo and have just now started coming across the "silver bullet" coating. I shot 100 or so out of my pistol and the flash is worse than normal, so I wonder if the powder if the same? Havent shot any of the new rifle rounds yet, been raining every day for the past 2 weeks here in sunny NC 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 4:08:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought 5 boxes last week and they all have the silver bullet. Did some searching around and found this: TulAmmo is converting from a Bimetal Jacketed projectile to a Zinc Coated projectile. Zinc coating is a chemical method of surface treatment (galvanizing) which gives the bullet jacket a more uniform and consistent protective layer than that of machine-stamped bimetal bullet jackets. Thanks to this, cartridges with zinc-coated bullets provide up to 10-15% better shooting accuracy than cartridges with bimetal bullets. This is very interesting... |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:01:20 PM EDT
[#34]
That zinc coating is similar to "Silver Bear" cases. It is NOT "hot dip galvanizing," which many of us are familiar with, and which produces a distinctive "frost-like" appearance. It looks like electrogalvanizing - an electroplating process. The old, copper-colored bullets were probably copper plated, too. It's easier to get a consistent surface layer with electroplating than "copper washing." Copper wash, as far as I can find, is essentially a VERY thin electroplate treatment.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:49:56 PM EDT
[#35]
You can melt a Zinc penny over a tea candle. I wonder what zinc compound they are using and if it will smear all down the barrel.
I would also be curious about fumes. Zinc fumes can give you a pretty nasty headache. |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 9:48:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BlueZ: Yes- that is exactly what Lucky Gunner says in their article. Thank you for quoting them. Shoot Russian stuff if you want........... replace the barrel if you need to.............. I agree it's what the Lucky Gunner Article means but sadly its not what a lot of folks seem to take as a take-away... 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 4:02:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Most likely cheaper like the move to poly coated cases , also marketed as a 'improvement'.
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Posted: 10/6/2015 7:13:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Polymer coating came about because so many people thought the lacquer coating was causing cases to stick. They were wrong, but they made so much noise that the Russians came up with the gray polymer coating. It IS smoother and more consistent, but that wasn't why they did it.
Those zinc-colored bullets aren't "painted" or otherwise coated, as far as I can tell, and since CTD says they're galvanized, it's almost certain that they're zinc plated. Zinc won't "smear" down the barrel - it was used in the early 20th century over cupronickel jacket material to reduce wear. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 11:53:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your bullets may have a QC issue where the cover was not applied. IN any event thats VERY soft steel... and I run Steel cased bimetal bullets all the time. I consider Tula55gr to be generally the bottom of the ammo selection even by steel standards but it runs fine in my most tolerant rifles LWRC M6A2 and a Delton I used to have. All my rifles get fed steel almost exclusively and I shoot approx 1000 rds a month in most months. But they usually get what I consider the upper end of steel case (Silver Bear 62gr or Wolf Military Classic 62gr) For some reason the 62gr steel seem to have better QC and even seem loaded a tad closer to US spec. Wolf Military classic 62gr HP tests time again and at 1.5 MOA for me out of my 1 in 7 CHF barrels. interesting you would note something I have as well, that Wolf MC feels very close to NATO loading when compared to Tulammo. I once shot some XM193, Tulammo and Wolf MC 62gr side by side, and while Tulammo felt incredibly weak, M193 and WMC felt identical. I know feel is not an accurate measurement of FPS, but it was very noticeable. Do you have any chronograph data? I mostly shoot Barnaul manufactured . 223 and have zero issues with it in 5.56 AKs and ARs. No failures, decent accuracy. The same cannot be said of Tulammo, I have had several lots with case rust and wildly out of spec case necks that caused many stuck cases. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 11:37:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Cheaperthandirt.com is the only place I have seen it said, but Tula (who hasnt updated their website in forever) is working on phasing out the stamped bimetal jackets on their bullets and going with a zinc coating for better lubricity down the barrel and improved accuracy. Hence the "werewolf bullet".
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:40:23 AM EDT
[#41]
I found this on luckygunner.com:
"Please note that in mid-2015, Tula began using zinc-plated projectiles. Although these projectiles may look strikingly different than the copper-plated bullets you're used to, rest assured that they will function and perform exactly like the Tula rounds you've always bought. Due to Tula's production and shipping schedules, we're unaware which type of projectile you can expect in your boxes." Considering this and what others have found on cheaperthandirt.com, I say mystery solved. I think I will be able to finally get to the range this weekend and see how they perform. #silverbullet |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 3:45:27 PM EDT
[#42]
I wonder if the zinc will cause problms like the gustov 855??
is this not a new problem I sure as hell will never shoot tula |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 9:18:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if the zinc will cause problms like the gustov 855?? is this not a know problem I sure as hell will never shoot tula Which problems with the Gustav 855? Zinc is a soft metal, electroplated onto steel it is very rugged and won't flake off, and it won't build up in a barrel the way copper can. |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 9:07:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which problems with the Gustav 855? Zinc is a soft metal, electroplated onto steel it is very rugged and won't flake off, and it won't build up in a barrel the way copper can. metal fever-read up on it. The CG m855 has know med problems from the metal used in the construction-mostly being the zinc. supposedly part of the reason there was a pre 09 HS (IIRC) dump of it on the market. zinc going down a barrel will make fumes, and zinc fumes are bad. |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 10:06:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
metal fever-read up on it. The CG m855 has know med problems from the metal used in the construction-mostly being the zinc. supposedly part of the reason there was a pre 09 HS (IIRC) dump of it on the market. zinc going down a barrel will make fumes, and zinc fumes are bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Which problems with the Gustav 855? Zinc is a soft metal, electroplated onto steel it is very rugged and won't flake off, and it won't build up in a barrel the way copper can. metal fever-read up on it. The CG m855 has know med problems from the metal used in the construction-mostly being the zinc. supposedly part of the reason there was a pre 09 HS (IIRC) dump of it on the market. zinc going down a barrel will make fumes, and zinc fumes are bad. That, and a Norwegian on these forums who was using it semi-officially, reports barrels were burning up WAY too soon with the Gustaf SS109, but I would think that was more the solid steel / lead free core (Great idea!) In the Gustaf m855, than the zinc jacket. I also am not sure on metal fouling behavior. I know Hatcher wrote about serious metal fouling in bores with early generation jacket metallurgy back in the 1900's (he's also the guy who figured out what was causing corrosion back then too - discovering that the primers were the source - hence what we call today "corrosive" primers). I'm not sure zinc's behavior. [edit to add: The metal fouling (leaving lumpy deposits of metals in the bore, was due to a cupro-nickle jacket, and had nothing to do with zinc]. Link to relevant section in Hatchers Notebook |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 6:30:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
metal fever-read up on it. The CG m855 has know med problems from the metal used in the construction-mostly being the zinc. supposedly part of the reason there was a pre 09 HS (IIRC) dump of it on the market. zinc going down a barrel will make fumes, and zinc fumes are bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Which problems with the Gustav 855? Zinc is a soft metal, electroplated onto steel it is very rugged and won't flake off, and it won't build up in a barrel the way copper can. metal fever-read up on it. The CG m855 has know med problems from the metal used in the construction-mostly being the zinc. supposedly part of the reason there was a pre 09 HS (IIRC) dump of it on the market. zinc going down a barrel will make fumes, and zinc fumes are bad. Zinc fumes ARE bad, but you have to get zinc REALLY hot for it to fume, and you have to create quite a bit of zinc fume to cause a health risk. This CDC publication on zinc oxide fume issues points out several facts that are important here. First, the melting point of zinc is greater than 3200ºF. This could conceivably be reached at the base of the bullet due to the hot powder gasses, but they would also cause chemical reactions that would bind the zinc with other elements and not produce simple ZnO (the problem compound). And the amount of zinc involved would be extremely tiny, to boot. Likewise, the amount of zinc that could be vaporized by a zinc plated bullet being pushed down a rifle barrel would be extremely tiny. Typical situations that liberate zinc oxide fumes in measurable quantities involve things like welding galvanized pipe; the "control" for avoiding this kind of exposure is ventilation - like shooting outdoors. Essentially this winds up being on a par with lead vapor problems with bullets that are made with zinc plated jackets. The Carl Gustaf M855 stuff was NOT made with SS109 bullets, but a redesigned, lead free bullet that had a LOT of zinc in it. The issues discussed in this archived thread from last year appear to be due to the specific design of the CG bullet, not "any zinc involved at all." The stuff was described as very smoky, and there was discussion of the CG bullet being redesigned because of unacceptably high levels of both copper and zinc emissions when fired in HK 416s. I am not saying the Tula bullets are a good idea for indoor ranges, but I do think that they are no more dangerous than jacketed bullets that have exposed lead at their bases. |
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Posted: 10/17/2015 3:18:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Picked some up to play with. Rifle used is a Stevens 200
Things noticed compared to regular Wolf is packing is different, primers are softer, ammo is hotter, ammo is cleaner, ammo extracts better and accuracy is worse. Packing is different: The 1K came in one package with 10 boxes 100 and none was in plastic wrap. 
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Primers are softer: Sometimes with Wolf the primers are dented in very much but noticed that the Tula really put a dent in the primer. 
Ammo is hotter: Went through 2K of Wolf and each 1k was different, one was poly and the other laquer. Also been shooting the South African ammo and power seemed similar between all brands but the Tulsa seemed hotter 
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The Tula seem noticeable hotter and primers are flattened and pushed out of case Ammo is cleaner, ammo ejects better: It seem much cleaner and not much dirty around the neck after shooting. With normal wolf poly or laquer the Stevens 200 always has extraction issues but with brass no issue. This stuff never had 1 ejection issue Accuracy is worse: Best group could get was .85 at 50 yds with some going out past 1 1/4 ". Normally for the most part can get 3/4" with Wolf at 50 yds with five shot groups. In the groups kept getting one or two fliers. 
Conclusion It seems clean and powerful and someone that had trouble running a AR with wolf this might be the one that will run it. Just be aware it is not the most accurate ammo but good for practicing. All shooting was done with a Stevens 200, Burris 4.5-14 scope and off a bench with only a bipod. Price very good at $209.00 for 1K |
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