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Page AR-15 » Ammunition
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:43:59 AM EDT
I shot some Hornady Match 75 grain BTHP ammo through my precision rig with promising results (1.43 moa 7 shot group with 5 shots within 1/2" at 100 yards). A while later I saw some Superperformance Match with the same bullet on sale, so I bought some. The Superperformance Match is coming in at 2.21 MOA at 200 yards. The Match has a muzzle velocity of 2790 fps, while the Superperformance Match is 2930. I was very surprised that the hotter load could make that much difference.

In fact, this Superperformance Match is the only ammo I have put through this rifle that would not shoot below 2 moa. With preferred ammo, 5-shot groups under 1 moa are common. Load work-ups have shown that the rifle does not prefer hotter loads, but the variations have usually been in the .1 moa range.

Do you see this kind of variation or is this likely a fluke?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 9:50:10 AM EDT
[#1]
I hear that the Hornady Superformance stuff is "too hot" for DI guns. Reports of guns blowing up and pierced primers are the norm.



https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=547170



Link Posted: 8/28/2015 10:23:44 AM EDT
[#2]
That's a hell of a disclaimer to stick on your website but leave off the box and out of the TV commercials. I'm not in the habit of going to an ammo manufacturer's website and reading the fine print before I purchase something. Hornady's basically saying the ammo is likely to cause excessive pressures in the most common configurations of the most common rifles in the country.

The rifle I shot the ammo with is a 20" barrel with rifle gas, so I guess it's "safe."

I'm going to contact Hornady.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 10:59:24 AM EDT
[#3]
I just spoke with Brad, a technical rep at Hornady.

My first question was whether Hornady would replace the Superperformance with regular Match. The answer was "no" unless there's something wrong with the ammo.

I then asked Brad if I run the Superperformance through my 18" mid-length AR and primers popped, etc. whether that would be "something wrong with the ammo" or misuse of the ammo since the website says that might happen. Brad did not answer that question directly but said the ammo would be tested. I take that as the ammo would be unlikely to be replaced.

I discussed the fact that on TV commercials Hornady markets the Superperformance line as being specially formulated to achieve high velocities without excessive pressure. The commercials strongly imply that you get the upsides of a hot load without the downsides. The first sentence of the Superperformance Match product page say "It is FAST! It is ACCURATE! It is VERSATILE!" Then some internal page of the website, in so many words, says that the Superperformance is really just a hot load only suited for long barrels. It might be fast, but it's not accurate (at least for me) or versatile.

Brad also mentioned that matches are usually shot with bolt guns, although he acknowledged this is changing. I'm guessing the number of ARs shot in matches outnumber bolt guns 3 to 1 or more.

My main complaint was that Hornday markets the Superperfromance as a high velocity load that's "safe" but then puts a page on its website that says watch out for overpressure if you use it in the most common configurations of the most common rifle. Brad said Hornady would take my comments under consideration in their marketing.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:03:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Which Superformance ? The 5.56 or the .223 ?

I have seen popped primers on carbine length gas systems.... but none from my middies... 14.7, 16, and 18"

My rifle length gas systems have no issues with it as well.

I truly suspect.. the variations in chambers and/or a carbine length gas system can cause issues when used with Superformance .223 and 5.56


FYI.. these were my recorded velocities...

.................................................................................................16" middie....................20" rifle.............

Hornady. 75gr Match....................HORNADY 223 REM...........Av. 2510 , ES 50................Av. 2640 , ES 60.........

Hornady Super. 223 Match 75....HORNADY 223 REM............Av. 2701 , ES 41................Av. 2790 , ES 54..........

Hornady Super. 5.56 75... ...........Hornady 5.56 NATO.............Av. 2785 , ES 31...............Av. 2840 , ES 42............

Data from ...Here


My rifles like the Horn. 75gr bullets better then the 77gr....
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:06:53 AM EDT
[#5]
It's the .223. I'll probably try it in my middy, but the middy is a plinker. I hate running .80 a round ammo through a plinker. Plus, I was planning on shooting the Superperformance stuff in mid-range prone matches. I never would have thought it would shoot a minute or so worse than the regular match load. Now I'll have to buy some different match ammo. It's about $50 down the hole when it's all said and done.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:10:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
.223.
View Quote

As a side note... some powders need a cleaning between use, in order to achieve best accuracy.

Years ago CMP had an article about what powders NOT to use one after the other... I will try to find it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:13:14 AM EDT
[#7]
BTW... try some of this for 100yds....

Excellent accuracy for the price... routinely just over 1 MOA

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/53/
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:13:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Superperformance has pretty much always been less consistent than the standard Match.
Anyone I know that's shot it, even out of bolt guns, says it groups significantly bigger.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:20:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Superperformance has pretty much always been less consistent than the standard Match.
Anyone I know that's shot it, even out of bolt guns, says it groups significantly bigger.
View Quote


Same experience here, in all calibers.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:24:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
BTW... try some of this for 100yds....

Excellent accuracy for the price... routinely just over 1 MOA

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/53/
View Quote


That's what I shoot more of than anything else. I've shot a .432" group with that stuff out of the rifle in question. It usually averages about 1.3 moa for me. It's the best value out there, in my opinion. It's good out to 200. I've never tried it past that. I'm not confident in that 50 grain bullet at 600 yards though, which is what I bought the Superperformance for.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:26:19 AM EDT
[#11]
OP.  In your opening post, you stated that you shot the Hornady Match at 100 yards, and the Superperformance at 200.  Is that correct?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:29:37 AM EDT
[#12]
That's correct. With this rifle and the high berms at my range, MOA is very consistent from 100 to 200 yards. I have not found significant variations in MOA in any ammo switching from 100 to 200 yards here.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:31:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Same experience here, in all calibers.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Superperformance has pretty much always been less consistent than the standard Match.
Anyone I know that's shot it, even out of bolt guns, says it groups significantly bigger.


Same experience here, in all calibers.


Maybe Hornady should call it Supercraptacular® Match.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:39:07 AM EDT
[#14]
I got less than stellar results with that ammo shot from my 18" WOA bbl.

Won't be buying it again.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:47:34 AM EDT
[#15]
I got terrible groups with SP match, well over 2 MOA. I will not be buying any more of it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:49:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Molon did a second round of tests that showed that current lots perform much better than early runs did
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:57:26 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

As a side note... some powders need a cleaning between use, in order to achieve best accuracy.

Years ago CMP had an article about what powders NOT to use one after the other... I will try to find it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
.223.

As a side note... some powders need a cleaning between use, in order to achieve best accuracy.

Years ago CMP had an article about what powders NOT to use one after the other... I will try to find it.


I'd like to see that list.  I have a friend that has run into the same issue with handgun loads.  He has two loads that are very accurate, unless he goes from one load with one powder to a load with the other powder without scrubbing the barrel first.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 12:19:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
BTW... try some of this for 100yds....

Excellent accuracy for the price... routinely just over 1 MOA

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/53/
View Quote



Yep.^ @ 100 yds, you can annoy the dook out of a target paster with that stuff. .
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 12:40:56 PM EDT
[#19]
I did a test a while back with about 8-9 different factory match loads out of my 24" BHW barrel and the Hornady Superformance Match was one of the worst performers.  I had high hopes for it but was very disappointed.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 12:45:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:28:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:36:37 AM EDT
[#22]
this is why you buy 1 box to test
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:46:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've said it often, "Superformance" and "match" should never be used in the same sentence.
View Quote


Exactly. I mean, when handloading, how often is your max pressure load also your most accurate?
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 9:58:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
this is why you buy 1 box to test
View Quote


I usually do this. However, when I buy something labeled as match from a company like Hornady, I expect truth in labeling. Ammo sold as a hot match load should not be a minute less accurate in the same rifle with the same bullet as the standard match load. Maybe .25 minute, but not a minute. Ammo sold as match should not be the worst ammo I've ever put through my rifle, by a comfortable margin. Ammo sold as "versatile" should not require you keep an eye out for popped primers and split cases in the most common configurations of the most common rifles.

It's pretty clear from Hornady's website and users' experiences that Superperformance Match .223 is not versatile match ammo, yet that is exactly how Hornady markets it. Instead, it's just a hot load suited only for 20" and longer barrels. Hornady knows that's what it really is, and that's what Hornady should sell it as. Had Hornady marketed and sold the ammo for what it really is, I never would have bought any of it because that's not what I was shopping for. I would be perfectly happy with this stuff is if it was .25 minute worse than the regular match. At a full minute worse, it's useless for mid-range matches. The bottom line is this is not match-quality ammo, and it's limited use. I had always held Hornady in high regard. Mostly, I guess it's disappointing to know they engage in the same BS that so many other companies do.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 1:07:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Google "Hornady 75 grain 5.56 Superperformance: Update" for Molon's post about this at the other site




Link Posted: 8/30/2015 2:36:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Google "Hornady 75 grain 5.56 Superperformance: Update" for Molon's post about this at the other site

View Quote


The results from that thread... much more match my results.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 11:44:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Molon did a second round of tests that showed that current lots perform much better than early runs did
View Quote



Except they had to reduce the velocity to about the same level as 5.56 TAP T2 to get it shoot decently. So why not just release 5.56 TAP T2 again? Not like it matters since BH 5.56 77gr TMK blows 5.56 TAP T2 out of the water.
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