User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 1:04:14 AM EDT
Link for phones that don't even
(It's a short video, but if your ADHD kicks in, skip to 1:50 to see the bullet exit the block) Wolf Gold 55 gr FMJ (M193 clone) fired from 11.5" AR into calibrated 10% gelatin. Silencer is Surefire FA556AR (M4FA). BB: 600.2 fps, 3.6" Impact velocities: 2,733 fps, 2,759 fps Penetration: more than 11.5", more than 15.1" Neck: 3.5" TSC: 7" x 3" Both shots yawed and exited the block. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 1:21:50 AM EDT
[#1]
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more
common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 2:31:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 3:00:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for doing this, as I was wondering how well WOLF GOLD would do.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 8:08:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Nice work as always!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:19:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Unfortunately, I have to concur. There doesn't appear to be significant fragmentation. Did you see the bullet exiting the block at 1:50? I wish I had seen that before I got home. It did yaw quickly, though, which gives hope for the longer barrel tests. I will test this again with a 16" barrel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:32:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unfortunately, I have to concur. There doesn't appear to be significant fragmentation. Did you see the bullet exiting the block at 1:50? I wish I had seen that before I got home. It did yaw quickly, though, which gives hope for the longer barrel tests. I will test this again with a 16" barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Unfortunately, I have to concur. There doesn't appear to be significant fragmentation. Did you see the bullet exiting the block at 1:50? I wish I had seen that before I got home. It did yaw quickly, though, which gives hope for the longer barrel tests. I will test this again with a 16" barrel. Just about any 5.56 fmj will frag at < 15 feet from the muzzle from a full length barrel. A SBR gives a more realistic idea as to how the round would actually perform at engagement distances. I wish you would have conducted a control test with the SBR for Fed XM193 to compare the velocity and fragmentation results. Would you be up for doing so? An old AR15.com gel test from 2004 found both Fed XM193 and IMI M193 to fragment all the way out to 150 yards ~ 2,600 fps mark from 16" barrels (yes, they actually set gel blocks up at 150 yards). |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:39:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Yeah, I've been planning on testing M193. When I do, I'll test 16" and 11.5".
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:59:08 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I've been planning on testing M193. When I do, I'll test 16" and 11.5". Maybe a 10.5? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 1:24:18 PM EDT
[#9]
That would be sweet. It might be fun to compare 11.5" to 10.5" at home defense distance.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 1:33:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be sweet. It might be fun to compare 11.5" to 10.5" at home defense distance. In your opinion, what has been the most impressive 5.56 / 223 test yet gel wise? The Fiocchi 55 grain psp? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 1:40:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Nice video, thanks for doing the test.
Subbed |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 2:51:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In your opinion, what has been the most impressive 5.56 / 223 test yet gel wise? The Fiocchi 55 grain psp? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That would be sweet. It might be fun to compare 11.5" to 10.5" at home defense distance. In your opinion, what has been the most impressive 5.56 / 223 test yet gel wise? The Fiocchi 55 grain psp? Black Hills 77gr TMK, hands down. Link
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 2:51:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice video, thanks for doing the test. Subbed Thank you for your support. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 4:01:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That would be sweet. It might be fun to compare 11.5" to 10.5" at home defense distance. In your opinion, what has been the most impressive 5.56 / 223 test yet gel wise? The Fiocchi 55 grain psp? Black Hills 77gr TMK, hands down. Link  https://youtu.be/qXBU03vdr2QHow about the top 3? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 4:49:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That would be sweet. It might be fun to compare 11.5" to 10.5" at home defense distance. In your opinion, what has been the most impressive 5.56 / 223 test yet gel wise? The Fiocchi 55 grain psp? Black Hills 77gr TMK, hands down. Link https://youtu.be/qXBU03vdr2QYeah the TMK was amazing. The 77gr nosler round wasn't too shabby. If you ever get time, I'd be curious about the 556 FBI t3 vs the Winchester round that is also used. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#16]
After the 77gr TMK, is probably say:
Nosler 77gr HPBT
Nosler 69 gr HPBT
Hornady 55 gr FMJ
But bear in mind, that's just some of the better ones that I tested. I'd recommend almost any heavy OTM or medium soft point. The recommended ammo article takes precedence over my informal testing, of course. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 5:12:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah the TMK was amazing. The 77gr nosler round wasn't too shabby. If you ever get time, I'd be curious about the 556 FBI t3 vs the Winchester round that is also used. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That would be sweet. It might be fun to compare 11.5" to 10.5" at home defense distance. In your opinion, what has been the most impressive 5.56 / 223 test yet gel wise? The Fiocchi 55 grain psp? Black Hills 77gr TMK, hands down. Link https://youtu.be/qXBU03vdr2QYeah the TMK was amazing. The 77gr nosler round wasn't too shabby. If you ever get time, I'd be curious about the 556 FBI t3 vs the Winchester round that is also used. I know it's been a while but I do still plan to test them. Next up will probably be HPR 75 GR BTHP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 5:13:40 PM EDT
[#18]
I bought a case of Wolf Gold and shot a few out of my 20" 1:9 twist Colt H-Bar at 100 yards. Point of impact was dead on with my zero for 55 grain JSP. I'm not the best shot but the Wolf produced 1.25" group at 100 yards using a 10 X scope off a bipod. For the price I like the Wolf Gold 55 grain FMJ.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 5:26:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After the 77gr TMK, is probably say: Nosler 77gr HPBT https://youtu.be/yiKGomS2N4U
Nosler 69 gr HPBT https://youtu.be/aSnyuw9DlvQ
Hornady 55 gr FMJ https://youtu.be/gqqZK6rrjA8
But bear in mind, that's just some of the better ones that I tested. I'd recommend almost any heavy OTM or medium soft point. The recommended ammo article takes precedence over my informal testing, of course. I'm surprised that you think the Hornady 55 grain FMJ is anywhere near the top! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 7:05:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Bear in mind the caveat that I haven't actually tested that many .223 loads. That particular one fragged well and may penetration standards.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 7:19:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bear in mind the caveat that I haven't actually tested that many .223 loads. That particular one fragged well and may penetration standards. I'm referring to the ones you tested. That one can't even compare to the fiocchi. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 7:32:43 PM EDT
[#22]
The Fiocchi soft point was a generally good performer but penetrated to within a fraction of the 12" mark on both the 11.5" and 16" tests. The Hornady FMJ went a little deeper. That said, the neck on the Fiocchi was dramatically shorter and the initial disruption was a freaking mess.
I would be happy with either but I'd also prefer a heavy OTM. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 10:15:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just about any 5.56 fmj will frag at < 15 feet from the muzzle from a full length barrel. A SBR gives a more realistic idea as to how the round would actually perform at engagement distances. I wish you would have conducted a control test with the SBR for Fed XM193 to compare the velocity and fragmentation results. Would you be up for doing so? An old AR15.com gel test from 2004 found both Fed XM193 and IMI M193 to fragment all the way out to 150 yards ~ 2,600 fps mark from 16" barrels (yes, they actually set gel blocks up at 150 yards). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Unfortunately, I have to concur. There doesn't appear to be significant fragmentation. Did you see the bullet exiting the block at 1:50? I wish I had seen that before I got home. It did yaw quickly, though, which gives hope for the longer barrel tests. I will test this again with a 16" barrel. Just about any 5.56 fmj will frag at < 15 feet from the muzzle from a full length barrel. A SBR gives a more realistic idea as to how the round would actually perform at engagement distances. I wish you would have conducted a control test with the SBR for Fed XM193 to compare the velocity and fragmentation results. Would you be up for doing so? An old AR15.com gel test from 2004 found both Fed XM193 and IMI M193 to fragment all the way out to 150 yards ~ 2,600 fps mark from 16" barrels (yes, they actually set gel blocks up at 150 yards). Engagement distance" Is well and dandy if you're going to war, but most of us here aren't taking our AR15's to Fallujah or Aleppo. If you're "engaging" someone at 150 yards with your home defense rifle, I'll bet many jury's would consider that murder. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 10:42:40 PM EDT
[#24]
While the lack of frag is disappointing, the velocity is very close to 2700fps which is generally considered the bottom of the range for reliable fragmentation.
I'd like to see you do the same test with a 16" gun which would yield a higher velocity, and I'd like to see a control where you test a couple different well known M193 rounds. That would be informational. The Hornady 55gr at 2773fps wasn't that impressive (to me) and only showed minimal fragmentation at that velocity. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 10:45:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Engagement distance" Is well and dandy if you're going to war, but most of us here aren't taking our AR15's to Fallujah or Aleppo. If you're "engaging" someone at 150 yards with your home defense rifle, I'll bet many jury's would consider that murder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Unfortunately, I have to concur. There doesn't appear to be significant fragmentation. Did you see the bullet exiting the block at 1:50? I wish I had seen that before I got home. It did yaw quickly, though, which gives hope for the longer barrel tests. I will test this again with a 16" barrel. Just about any 5.56 fmj will frag at < 15 feet from the muzzle from a full length barrel. A SBR gives a more realistic idea as to how the round would actually perform at engagement distances. I wish you would have conducted a control test with the SBR for Fed XM193 to compare the velocity and fragmentation results. Would you be up for doing so? An old AR15.com gel test from 2004 found both Fed XM193 and IMI M193 to fragment all the way out to 150 yards ~ 2,600 fps mark from 16" barrels (yes, they actually set gel blocks up at 150 yards). Engagement distance" Is well and dandy if you're going to war, but most of us here aren't taking our AR15's to Fallujah or Aleppo. If you're "engaging" someone at 150 yards with your home defense rifle, I'll bet many jury's would consider that murder. But we definitely learned this would be a terrible choice if your home defense weapon is an 11.5" rifle, given there are so many known better rounds. Not surprising, but still significant. I'm more concerned with velocities, than I am engagement distances. I could care less about what a bullet does at 100yds or more, because I sure as hell aint engaging any people at those distances. But I do care about velocities from short barrel lengths at close distances. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 10:54:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But we definitely learned this would be a terrible choice if your home defense weapon is an 11.5" rifle, given there are so many known better rounds. Not surprising, but still significant. Agreed |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:43:44 PM EDT
[#27]
"Terrible choice" is probably not the best phrasing. This would still ruin somebody's whole day. Not ideal but still far more effective than any handgun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/9/2015 12:04:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Engagement distance" Is well and dandy if you're going to war, but most of us here aren't taking our AR15's to Fallujah or Aleppo. If you're "engaging" someone at 150 yards with your home defense rifle, I'll bet many jury's would consider that murder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Unfortunately, I have to concur. There doesn't appear to be significant fragmentation. Did you see the bullet exiting the block at 1:50? I wish I had seen that before I got home. It did yaw quickly, though, which gives hope for the longer barrel tests. I will test this again with a 16" barrel. Just about any 5.56 fmj will frag at < 15 feet from the muzzle from a full length barrel. A SBR gives a more realistic idea as to how the round would actually perform at engagement distances. I wish you would have conducted a control test with the SBR for Fed XM193 to compare the velocity and fragmentation results. Would you be up for doing so? An old AR15.com gel test from 2004 found both Fed XM193 and IMI M193 to fragment all the way out to 150 yards ~ 2,600 fps mark from 16" barrels (yes, they actually set gel blocks up at 150 yards). Engagement distance" Is well and dandy if you're going to war, but most of us here aren't taking our AR15's to Fallujah or Aleppo. If you're "engaging" someone at 150 yards with your home defense rifle, I'll bet many jury's would consider that murder. Who says the next war will be in Fallujah or Aleppo? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:50:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2015 11:42:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway. I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2015 6:26:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway. I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. For plinking? Wolf Gold is more accurate, and slightly cheaper. If you are removing terminal ballistics, wolf gold is the winner hands down. What would you base your xm193 statement on? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2015 2:23:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
looks good. i'm really curious though how it performs out of more common barrel lengths (16", 20"). did you get to try with either of those as well? Looked like the opposite to me. Almost no fragmentation, even though there was some lead left behind I suspect it was just lead that squeezed out of the base of bullet which is common in non fragmenting bullets. Yup. I guess I'll just have to shoot them twice - thank the Lawd for auto-loading rifles! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2015 4:40:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For plinking? Wolf Gold is more accurate, and slightly cheaper. If you are removing terminal ballistics, wolf gold is the winner hands down. What would you base your xm193 statement on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway. I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. For plinking? Wolf Gold is more accurate, and slightly cheaper. If you are removing terminal ballistics, wolf gold is the winner hands down. What would you base your xm193 statement on? ol'Blain there is just talking out his piehole to hear his head rattle. of course wolf gold is GTG for plinking, especially since its .32/round delivered and fed xm193 is .35/round or more plus shipping. now if it was the same price, then ya, blane is right. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2015 8:14:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway. I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. When you have a steady supply of $280 per case shipped XM193 let me know. Until then Wolf is out in front. And I stock mostly XM193. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2015 9:40:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you have a steady supply of $280 per case shipped XM193 let me know. Until then Wolf is out in front. And I stock mostly XM193. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway. I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. When you have a steady supply of $280 per case shipped XM193 let me know. Until then Wolf is out in front. And I stock mostly XM193. There is no "steady" supply of $280 SHIPPED wolf gold. And Cabela's was offering XM193 for $265 shipped around 6 months ago. The deals pop up from time to time. It may not be a steady price, but neither is $280 shipped for wolf gold. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2015 10:44:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no "steady" supply of $280 SHIPPED wolf gold. And Cabela's was offering XM193 for $265 shipped around 6 months ago. The deals pop up from time to time. It may not be a steady price, but neither is $280 shipped for wolf gold. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway. I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. When you have a steady supply of $280 per case shipped XM193 let me know. Until then Wolf is out in front. And I stock mostly XM193. There is no "steady" supply of $280 SHIPPED wolf gold. And Cabela's was offering XM193 for $265 shipped around 6 months ago. The deals pop up from time to time. It may not be a steady price, but neither is $280 shipped for wolf gold. Pre this last mini panic it was everywhere. Now it is everywhere for $300. Still cheaper. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2015 11:52:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pre this last mini panic it was everywhere. Now it is everywhere for $300. Still cheaper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice to know for technical purposes. But this does nothing to change the fact that Wolf Gold is still the current best option for quality, affordable plinking ammo, which is what I assume most people are buying it for anyway. I'd disagree and proclaim Federal XM193 as the best option. When you have a steady supply of $280 per case shipped XM193 let me know. Until then Wolf is out in front. And I stock mostly XM193. There is no "steady" supply of $280 SHIPPED wolf gold. And Cabela's was offering XM193 for $265 shipped around 6 months ago. The deals pop up from time to time. It may not be a steady price, but neither is $280 shipped for wolf gold. Pre this last mini panic it was everywhere. Now it is everywhere for $300. Still cheaper. Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/13/2015 12:33:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? It just ends a few days ago. The-armory had it for that. Nowhere right this second. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/13/2015 4:43:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sportsmansguide with free shipping code ...wolf gold for$ 308 shipped |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/13/2015 5:11:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sportsmansguide with free shipping code ...wolf gold for$ 308 shipped Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sportsmansguide with free shipping code ...wolf gold for$ 308 shipped Yeah, with a "buyer's club" membership you have to purchase. After Sportsman's guide tried to sue me AND ruin my credit over over-charging me for something, I will NEVER do business with them again and would recommend likewise. They are a scumbag company with criminal practices. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/13/2015 10:51:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, with a "buyer's club" membership you have to purchase. After Sportsman's guide tried to sue me AND ruin my credit over over-charging me for something, I will NEVER do business with them again and would recommend likewise. They are a scumbag company with criminal practices. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sportsmansguide with free shipping code ...wolf gold for$ 308 shipped Yeah, with a "buyer's club" membership you have to purchase. After Sportsman's guide tried to sue me AND ruin my credit over over-charging me for something, I will NEVER do business with them again and would recommend likewise. They are a scumbag company with criminal practices. lol Well...don't say it's not available 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:19:09 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm not dogging on Federal ammo, but I'd rather shoot the Wolf Gold 55fmj stuff over any similar Federal offering if the price is the same.
The last chrony test I did on federal XM193 had velocities all over the place: Youtube video My .223 handloads out of the same rifle that day were under 50fps ES with the same # of shots. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2015 9:14:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sorry about that, I see where the mentioned supplier has gone out of stock. Where do YOU find a steady supply of XM193 for $320 per case shipped? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:30:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry about that, I see where the mentioned supplier has gone out of stock. Where do YOU find a steady supply of XM193 for $320 per case shipped? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sorry about that, I see where the mentioned supplier has gone out of stock. Where do YOU find a steady supply of XM193 for $320 per case shipped? He doesn't. Federal rarely releases brown boxes XM193 anymore. The only thing that is consistently shipped to civilian retailers is the new black boxes 'American Eagle" marked "5.56 XM193". The price has gone up and Federal/ATK knows distribs will pay the price for it, as well as the end buyers. The cheapest XM193 is $179.99 per 500 shipped right now, and it's not going lower anytime soon due to the amount of new shooters to this caliber from the last two panics. And we're talking about Federal XM193 from the same lines as the .mil production- no independence M193 or AE Black Box M193. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2015 7:03:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While the lack of frag is disappointing, the velocity is very close to 2700fps which is generally considered the bottom of the range for reliable fragmentation. I'd like to see you do the same test with a 16" gun which would yield a higher velocity, and I'd like to see a control where you test a couple different well known M193 rounds. That would be informational. The Hornady 55gr at 2773fps wasn't that impressive (to me) and only showed minimal fragmentation at that velocity. I agree, the Wolf Gold results were a bit disappointing but I wouldn't count it out as decent SHTF stash ammo based on 2 rounds near the low end of the fragmentation velocity range. M193 isn't the most consistent performer to begin with. Even the best LE/SD rounds out there don't perform correctly 100% of the time, and sometimes look bad in gel tests where only 1-2 rounds are fired. Ideally I like to see at least 5-10 rounds fired to get a decent idea of a rounds performance, if the rounds are from a couple different lots even better. Also there are few if any gel tests of M193 rounds other than Federal brown/white box XM193 to compare the results to. I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of the most common M193 type rounds like AE XM193, Wold Gold, PMC XP193, and IMI M193 out of 16" barrels. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been done already. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2015 7:59:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not dogging on Federal ammo, but I'd rather shoot the Wolf Gold 55fmj stuff over any similar Federal offering if the price is the same. The last chrony test I did on federal XM193 had velocities all over the place: Youtube video My .223 handloads out of the same rifle that day were under 50fps ES with the same # of shots. Embed:
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/22/2015 1:20:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry about that, I see where the mentioned supplier has gone out of stock. Where do YOU find a steady supply of XM193 for $320 per case shipped? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sorry about that, I see where the mentioned supplier has gone out of stock. Where do YOU find a steady supply of XM193 for $320 per case shipped? Here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/22/2015 6:58:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sorry about that, I see where the mentioned supplier has gone out of stock. Where do YOU find a steady supply of XM193 for $320 per case shipped? Here. That is $0.33 cents per round, or $333 per thousand, plus shipping. Their shipping is typically another $30 for me. They just HAPPEN to have a memorial day sale with free shipping on anything, but that is rare, they don't do free shipping on ammo on a regular basis. So this deal, to be a "steady supply" is really more like $360.... which is why people said there is a difference. 
Interesting you hold numbers to be so significant and exact, in a discussion where we are talking feet per second, or fragmentation range.... but NOT when comparing dollars. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/23/2015 2:05:28 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is $0.33 cents per round, or $333 per thousand, plus shipping. Their shipping is typically another $30 for me. They just HAPPEN to have a memorial day sale with free shipping on anything, but that is rare, they don't do free shipping on ammo on a regular basis. So this deal, to be a "steady supply" is really more like $360.... which is why people said there is a difference.
Interesting you hold numbers to be so significant and exact, in a discussion where we are talking feet per second, or fragmentation range.... but NOT when comparing dollars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok so you just admitted you were untruthful about that. Pre panic $300 XM193 was "everywhere". Where now can I find wolf gold for $300 SHIPPED?? I'll spend an extra 2 cents a round for superior, and proven, performance. Sorry about that, I see where the mentioned supplier has gone out of stock. Where do YOU find a steady supply of XM193 for $320 per case shipped? Here. That is $0.33 cents per round, or $333 per thousand, plus shipping. Their shipping is typically another $30 for me. They just HAPPEN to have a memorial day sale with free shipping on anything, but that is rare, they don't do free shipping on ammo on a regular basis. So this deal, to be a "steady supply" is really more like $360.... which is why people said there is a difference.
Interesting you hold numbers to be so significant and exact, in a discussion where we are talking feet per second, or fragmentation range.... but NOT when comparing dollars. Oh please, they have free shipping sales every month. That price is about as rare as being able to get wolf gold for $.031 a round shipped. Neither are regular sales prices for either but are frequent enough to be easily gotten with a little time and patience. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
