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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:58:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Over bore capacity?
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:03:00 PM EDT
[#2]
I don't see the point. Super high velocity 223 rounds?
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:07:00 PM EDT
[#3]
@Him
I'd say long range / flat trajectory capacity ! :) |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:08:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see the point. Super high velocity 223 rounds? What about long range varmint hunting? |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 5:30:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about long range varmint hunting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see the point. Super high velocity 223 rounds? What about long range varmint hunting? This is a terrible idea. Do you realize the original design intent of the SOCOM? Do you know the pressure limitations of the round in the AR15 platform? (No you do not- it is not 60,000 like your linked post is claiming) If you are not limited to the AR15 platform, SOCOM brass in itself is expensive and there are much better options for cheaper parent brass out there for non-auto loader platforms to base your wildcat... and your wildcat is pointless when compared to the SSMs already in production. But hey, if you want your barrel burning shrapnel launching monster, don't let me stop you. ETA: You are clearly getting AR15 and AR10 based platforms mixed up, in which case you have no business messing with wildcat anything; master the basics first. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 7:46:02 PM EDT
[#6]
@BigPolska
.458 SOCOM is a relatively low pressure cartridge indeed (35k psi or so), however the wildcat is intended to be a high pressure one. I hate to say, but you are contradicting yourself : pressure limitations for AR platform are not 60k, but they are still chambered in WSSMs (65k), right? :) Here is a nice reading about pressures ... from a very cool source: http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfR.pdf Brass is expensive, I agree. It will need a dedicated upper (milspec won't do the job I guess). Advantage compared to WSSMs is the usage of .473 rim which makes it more flexible ... not limiting its use to special bolt actions (you just need a simple .473 action to chamber in this cartridge). Very interesting manner to set my knowledge level and to restrict me from doing wildcatting experiments :) Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate your feedback ... no matter what ;) |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 7:53:14 PM EDT
[#7]
AR10 type rifle in 22Cheetah or 243 Winchester and be done....
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Posted: 3/5/2015 8:34:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@BigPolska .458 SOCOM is a relatively low pressure cartridge indeed (35k psi or so), however the wildcat is intended to be a high pressure one. I hate to say, but you are contradicting yourself : pressure limitations for AR platform are not 60k, but they are still chambered in WSSMs (65k), right? :) Here is a nice reading about pressures ... from a very cool source: http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfR.pdf Brass is expensive, I agree. It will need a dedicated upper (milspec won't do the job I guess). Advantage compared to WSSMs is the usage of .473 rim which makes it more flexible ... not limiting its use to special bolt actions (you just need a simple .473 action to chamber in this cartridge). Very interesting manner to set my knowledge level and to restrict me from doing wildcatting experiments :) Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate your feedback ... no matter what ;) I believe you are misinterpreting the data. The WSSMs can run at 65K in bolt guns. The AR is limited by bolt thrust which is a function of pressure and the diameter of the shell. Using a Socom shell as a parent, you are limited to 35K in the AR platform all other things being equal. You can push it higher if the critical parts are made out of stronger material or if you build something truly custom. There are some manufactures who are doing larger barrel extensions and bolts that will take higher pressures. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 10:41:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@BigPolska .458 SOCOM is a relatively low pressure cartridge indeed (35k psi or so), however the wildcat is intended to be a high pressure one. I hate to say, but you are contradicting yourself : pressure limitations for AR platform are not 60k, but they are still chambered in WSSMs (65k), right? :) Very interesting manner to set my knowledge level and to restrict me from doing wildcatting experiments :) Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate your feedback ... no matter what ;) @HrachayaH I am not trying to "restrict your experiments" I am trying to keep you from blowing your fool head off. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. From this source: The bigger the case head the less material in the bolt. Less metal means less pressure the bolt can withstand There are bolts out there that can withstand more head thrust. That being said you need to look at what are typical operating pressures of the cases you mentioned. Hodgdon will only give you data with the Grendel case to 50,000 PSI and IIRC 56,000 for the 6.8 case. Hoop strength is the term used to determine the amount of stress the barrel can withstand laterally. Obviously the larger the case the less hoop strength the barrel or chamber has. Quite simply an AR chamber is limited in size not only from the magazine but the barrel nut as well. You can't simply just make the chamber thicker. Again, if you want to use this in an AR15 platform, you won't hit your design pressure, which is approx. half of what you want in a SOCOM AR15. I think you are getting into AR10 parts and territory with the SSMs, and there are much better cartridges that are not limited to AR15 magazine length that live here. If you are using $1 SOCOM brass in your bolt gun, why not start with a more common, cheaper parent to form your brass from? |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 8:34:37 AM EDT
[#10]
@Davetrader
And that's why I mentioned that a special upper must be used, dedicated to the wide rim ... just like WSSM ARs have. Oly amkes WSSM uppers as well as DTech Custom and I believe somebody else too. |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 8:42:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Um if your going to go with a custom upper that is wider than the standard upper to hold the wider than standard bolt and carrier. SURE, but uh you are kinda getting into some stupid extreme fabrication at that point...
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Posted: 3/6/2015 8:49:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR10 type rifle in 22Cheetah or 243 Winchester and be done.... or even. .22-250 if you just have to have a .22. |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 8:54:39 AM EDT
[#13]
@BigPolska
As I mentioned, a special, dedicated, custom upper is a must. Like one of these: http://www.olyarms.com/shop/k8-mag-ur-243-543.html http://www.dtechuppers.com/ar-15-wssm-upper-receivers.html I am expecting some criticism from forum members ... and I like it, because it helps me reconsider the basic design, and maybe eventually come up with a final, perfected design ... it is something like a team work. That's why actually I posted the concept to get some feedback and opinions. However, please lets stay civilized ... how can you call me fool? ... don't you think it's an insult? |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 8:58:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
or even. .22-250 if you just have to have a .22. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
AR10 type rifle in 22Cheetah or 243 Winchester and be done.... or even. .22-250 if you just have to have a .22. Sure, sir ... except if you want it to be swapped on AR15 lower. |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 9:06:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am expecting some criticism from forum members ... and I like it, because it helps me reconsider the basic design, and maybe eventually come up with a final, perfected design ... it is something like a team work. That's why actually I posted the concept to get some feedback and opinions. However, please lets stay civilized ... how can you call me fool? ... don't you think it's an insult? post your idea in GD you will get some moar criticism and cool stories |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 9:11:27 AM EDT
[#16]
@doc_Zox
OK :) Thank you for the advise. Maybe I'll post my next idea in GD. |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 9:35:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@doc_Zox OK :) Thank you for the advise. Maybe I'll post my next idea in GD. Look below the post that you are responding to. You will see a button that says "Quote". Click that and you will be able to quote that post directly without you having to type "@ so-and-so". Makes it easy for everyone reading the thread to know exactly what you are responding to. |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 9:43:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look below the post that you are responding to. You will see a button that says "Quote". Click that and you will be able to quote that post directly without you having to type "@ so-and-so". Makes it easy for everyone reading the thread to know exactly what you are responding to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@doc_Zox OK :) Thank you for the advise. Maybe I'll post my next idea in GD. Look below the post that you are responding to. You will see a button that says "Quote". Click that and you will be able to quote that post directly without you having to type "@ so-and-so". Makes it easy for everyone reading the thread to know exactly what you are responding to. Thank you! But I can use only relatively short quotes (like this one), otherwise it says "Message is too long. New accounts are limited to 2000 characters per post". This is first time I am posting in AR15.com, so thanks again for the tip ... it helps! |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 10:55:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um if your going to go with a custom upper that is wider than the standard upper to hold the wider than standard bolt and carrier. SURE, but uh you are kinda getting into some stupid extreme fabrication at that point... I'm going to agree, giving up on this OP, either he is a super troll or just  .
He stated in his original post, AR15 Platform... Now he is going to build some franken-gun for his wildcat. He could just buy an already assembled one (just one of many examples, another) if he really feels the need for a super stubby, but there are so many excellent choices that have cheap brass and much safer operating pressures then messing with a SOCOM case already in existance. I think the old adage of never argue with certain types of people applies here... I will leave it at that. |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 12:19:46 PM EDT
[#20]
In my opinion this idea looks like it will do 3 things:
1. overwork and waste 458 brass (lots of trial and error before you get a few goods ones) 2. The steep angle will destroy the chamber in less than 1200 rounds 3. Go kaboom and hurt someone Also, you will still need a long 22-24" barrel to gain the benefits. I understand the thought of looking for something new, but of all the variant ideas around based on the AR15 platform, the only variant that truly has the support and verstility is the (I am afraid to say it) the 300 BLK. Same bolt, same unmodified mags, same parent case thats easy to make at home if needed, lots of industry support, ammo on the shelf, etc, etc. I myself, am a huge fan of the 6.8spc, but I took the next step and bought the LWRC six8 with the widened magwell and proprietary magazines so I can used the COAL to my advantage as needed for more velocity. If you just want to go fast in a AR15, why not a 204 ruger? or a 17/223? |
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Posted: 3/7/2015 10:27:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Some interesting reading about short magnum cartridges:
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/10822/olympic-arms-k8-magnum-targetmatch/ http://www.chuckhawks.com/223wssm.htm http://www.browning.com/library/infonews/detail.asp?id=79 http://www.chuckhawks.com/short_magnums.htm http://www.rifleshootermag.com/uncategorized/rifle-cartridge-deathwatch-winchester-super-short-magnums/ |
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