What is in your HD magazine? - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What is in your HD magazine? (Page 3 of 3)

Posted: 11/8/2014 4:36:45 PM EDT

[#1]

Handload. 7.62mmX51mm 150 grain Starfire hollowpoint from the 90's, driven at 2500fps. 25-rnd magazine. Just.... insanely ugly terminals, and soft recoil.

Posted: 11/8/2014 5:31:25 PM EDT

[#2]

230gr. gold dot,wilson mags.

clown

Posted: 11/8/2014 5:40:23 PM EDT

[#3]

Posted: 11/8/2014 9:53:22 PM EDT

[#4]

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You know, the tipped Match King gel shot I've seen here looks pretty much exactly like the regular 77gr SMK gel shots I've seen. The main advantage to the tipped version - as far as I can tell - is a much improved BC for long range shooting; completely irrelevant to home defense applications.

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Currently Federal Fusion 62 grain stuff. But I am more than a little curious about the new Black Hills 5.56mm TMK ammo. If it consistently performs like it did in a photo of a gel block posted here a while back, it just might be the most devastating 5.56mm load to date. The temporary cavity that thing makes is simply NASTY. It penetrates about 12.5" in gel and the TC looks to be in the 6" diameter range!

Yeah my HD mags consist of 5.56 75gr tap alternated with the federal FBIT3 round or the 77gr tmk alternated with the T3. I'm just waiting for some additional gelatin or hunting shots before I make the tmk my go to.

You know, the tipped Match King gel shot I've seen here looks pretty much exactly like the regular 77gr SMK gel shots I've seen. The main advantage to the tipped version - as far as I can tell - is a much improved BC for long range shooting; completely irrelevant to home defense applications.

The key difference is the construction of the bullet. The TMK was designed to deliver good terminal performance from the outset. It isn't simply a lucky byproduct of the thin jacket causing the bullet to fragment when it yaws. As such, the TMK should be FAR MORE CONSISTENT in its performance than the SMK or any of the other OTM bullets out there. That means it will no longer be dependent on velocity and yaw in order to perform. The OTM bullets are all over the place in terms of performance. Sometimes they come apart early and perform spectacularly. Sometimes they frag late and deliver less than satisfactory performance. And sometimes they don't fragment at all. There's just too many variables at play to allow for consistent terminal performance. The design of this particular bullets eliminates many of those variables that can rob you of the desired performance.

Posted: 11/9/2014 9:44:25 AM EDT

[#5]

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The key difference is the construction of the bullet. The TMK was designed to deliver good terminal performance from the outset. It isn't simply a lucky byproduct of the thin jacket causing the bullet to fragment when it yaws. As such, the TMK should be FAR MORE CONSISTENT in its performance than the SMK or any of the other OTM bullets out there. That means it will no longer be dependent on velocity and yaw in order to perform. The OTM bullets are all over the place in terms of performance. Sometimes they come apart early and perform spectacularly. Sometimes they frag late and deliver less than satisfactory performance. And sometimes they don't fragment at all. There's just too many variables at play to allow for consistent terminal performance. The design of this particular bullets eliminates many of those variables that can rob you of the desired performance.

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Quoted:
Currently Federal Fusion 62 grain stuff. But I am more than a little curious about the new Black Hills 5.56mm TMK ammo. If it consistently performs like it did in a photo of a gel block posted here a while back, it just might be the most devastating 5.56mm load to date. The temporary cavity that thing makes is simply NASTY. It penetrates about 12.5" in gel and the TC looks to be in the 6" diameter range!

Yeah my HD mags consist of 5.56 75gr tap alternated with the federal FBIT3 round or the 77gr tmk alternated with the T3. I'm just waiting for some additional gelatin or hunting shots before I make the tmk my go to.

You know, the tipped Match King gel shot I've seen here looks pretty much exactly like the regular 77gr SMK gel shots I've seen. The main advantage to the tipped version - as far as I can tell - is a much improved BC for long range shooting; completely irrelevant to home defense applications.

The key difference is the construction of the bullet. The TMK was designed to deliver good terminal performance from the outset. It isn't simply a lucky byproduct of the thin jacket causing the bullet to fragment when it yaws. As such, the TMK should be FAR MORE CONSISTENT in its performance than the SMK or any of the other OTM bullets out there. That means it will no longer be dependent on velocity and yaw in order to perform. The OTM bullets are all over the place in terms of performance. Sometimes they come apart early and perform spectacularly. Sometimes they frag late and deliver less than satisfactory performance. And sometimes they don't fragment at all. There's just too many variables at play to allow for consistent terminal performance. The design of this particular bullets eliminates many of those variables that can rob you of the desired performance.

I wasn't privy to their motivations in designing the round. If you were, ok then.

If you look at the lengths of the various OTM rounds and their neck length, you notice that (generally) as the bullets get longer, the neck lengths get shorter. This is an example of that. I'm not going to presume anything as far as Sierra's intentions in designing the round. Seems to me that they were going for a super high BC.

Posted: 11/9/2014 1:19:31 PM EDT

[#6]

Eric, all I'm saying is that the mechanisms involved are quite different between the TMK and all the other OTM bullets out there. The tip drives back into the hollow point cavity upon impact, causing it to expand/fragment. It isn't necessary for it to first yaw before it breaks apart. That means you should consistently get a shorter neck and more consistent shot to shot behavior from it.

Posted: 11/9/2014 4:28:41 PM EDT

[#7]

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Eric, all I'm saying is that the mechanisms involved are quite different between the TMK and all the other OTM bullets out there. The tip drives back into the hollow point cavity upon impact, causing it to expand/fragment. It isn't necessary for it to first yaw before it breaks apart. That means you should consistently get a shorter neck and more consistent shot to shot behavior from it.

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The more gel shots I see with the TMK, the more I'm simply amazed by it. A 6.5" temp cavity out of a 14.5 inch barrel and over 4" at 1900 fps

...all with a ~1" neck length.

This round has so much potential for sbr due to the fact the fragmentation velocity is lower than regular smk.

It has a REAL possibility to dethrone 75gr TAP as the best non barrier blind load.

Posted: 11/9/2014 6:19:19 PM EDT

[#8]

Yeah, the early reports make the TMK look like an outstanding performer. I want to see a few more tests to confirm this sort of performance is the norm. At that point, I'm probably going to order about 500 rounds of the stuff for testing and home defense. It will be interesting to see what the point of impact is for this load at various distances using a 50 yard zero. I imagine it will be different than what I am used to seeing with M193 and M855. But I imagine the combat effective zone will still be quite acceptable from 0 out to 250/300 yards utilizing that zero.

Posted: 11/10/2014 9:59:43 AM EDT

[#9]

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XM193

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Ditto........

Posted: 11/14/2014 10:47:41 PM EDT

[#10]

Every rifle (4 total) sits in my safe with a 30rd mag of 55g TAP in the gun, no round chambered. When I am home the safe is unlocked for quick access and when the kids are in bed, gone, etc. a rifle is usually in a room with me. After that I have a PIG plate carrier with 5 mags loaded with some good old XM193. Obviously that would be for things going full retard. Also in the safe is two more mags loaded with the TAP rds and two mags loaded with 64g Speer Gold Dot Bonded rounds.

For the tech side if it, I have found the POA/POI shift between my XM193 and 55g TAP to be very minimal out to 300yrds. By that I mean using either round with my rifles zeroes I can quickly hit a steel silhouette with good combat effective hits out to 300yrds. Can I go back and forth between the two and keep a bullseye hit? No, but it is still close. This is why I don't mind having the 193 as my backup/reload for the TAP.

Posted: 11/14/2014 11:43:57 PM EDT

[#11]

60gr PDx-1

Posted: 11/15/2014 4:31:00 AM EDT

[#12]

Mags of ZQI M855, LC M855, and mags of XM 193. I've been thinking about getting something heavier though. Maybe Hornady unless someone has other recommendations. I've always stuck to mil 5.56

Posted: 11/15/2014 7:57:40 AM EDT

[#13]

IMI M193 in a 14.5 Middy

Posted: 11/15/2014 10:16:02 AM EDT

[#14]

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Every rifle (4 total) sits in my safe with a 30rd mag of 55g TAP in the gun, no round chambered.

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Varmint bullet with lousy penetration.

Posted: 11/15/2014 4:33:24 PM EDT

[#15]

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Varmint bullet with lousy penetration.

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Every rifle (4 total) sits in my safe with a 30rd mag of 55g TAP in the gun, no round chambered.

Varmint bullet with lousy penetration.

First, I would prefer less penetration for a home defense round than over penetration. I don't want a round to exit and end up potentially harming a family member or going into my subdivision. Second, as far as being a varmint round with lousy penetration, my experience is the 55g TAP Urban round which is what I have at home and is my issued ammo for my patrol rifle has performed well. I know one round stopped a full grown male who was intoxicated and from someone who was at the autopsy, it also did significant damage to internal tissue/organs. This is not a story of a guy who knows a guy that has a friend. It was an officer involved shooting at my agency. Besides I like a round where if I were to miss in the dynamics of a lethal force situation, the round will not travel through several walls and exit my house. Chalk it up to years of being drilled into my head of shot accountability/responsibility and being potentially help liable for a miss or over penetration.

Posted: 11/15/2014 5:29:40 PM EDT

[#16]

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First, I would prefer less penetration for a home defense round than over penetration. I don't want a round to exit and end up potentially harming a family member or going into my subdivision. Second, as far as being a varmint round with lousy penetration, my experience is the 55g TAP Urban round which is what I have at home and is my issued ammo for my patrol rifle has performed well. I know one round stopped a full grown male who was intoxicated and from someone who was at the autopsy, it also did significant damage to internal tissue/organs. This is not a story of a guy who knows a guy that has a friend. It was an officer involved shooting at my agency. Besides I like a round where if I were to miss in the dynamics of a lethal force situation, the round will not travel through several walls and exit my house. Chalk it up to years of being drilled into my head of shot accountability/responsibility and being potentially help liable for a miss or over penetration.

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Quoted:
Every rifle (4 total) sits in my safe with a 30rd mag of 55g TAP in the gun, no round chambered.

Varmint bullet with lousy penetration.

First, I would prefer less penetration for a home defense round than over penetration. I don't want a round to exit and end up potentially harming a family member or going into my subdivision. Second, as far as being a varmint round with lousy penetration, my experience is the 55g TAP Urban round which is what I have at home and is my issued ammo for my patrol rifle has performed well. I know one round stopped a full grown male who was intoxicated and from someone who was at the autopsy, it also did significant damage to internal tissue/organs. This is not a story of a guy who knows a guy that has a friend. It was an officer involved shooting at my agency. Besides I like a round where if I were to miss in the dynamics of a lethal force situation, the round will not travel through several walls and exit my house. Chalk it up to years of being drilled into my head of shot accountability/responsibility and being potentially help liable for a miss or over penetration.

Ok. A lot of PD's pick varmint rounds because of liability concerns. Doesn't change the facts, though.

Posted: 11/15/2014 8:20:18 PM EDT

[#17]

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Ok. A lot of PD's pick varmint rounds because of liability concerns. Doesn't change the facts, though.

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Quoted:
Every rifle (4 total) sits in my safe with a 30rd mag of 55g TAP in the gun, no round chambered.

Varmint bullet with lousy penetration.

First, I would prefer less penetration for a home defense round than over penetration. I don't want a round to exit and end up potentially harming a family member or going into my subdivision. Second, as far as being a varmint round with lousy penetration, my experience is the 55g TAP Urban round which is what I have at home and is my issued ammo for my patrol rifle has performed well. I know one round stopped a full grown male who was intoxicated and from someone who was at the autopsy, it also did significant damage to internal tissue/organs. This is not a story of a guy who knows a guy that has a friend. It was an officer involved shooting at my agency. Besides I like a round where if I were to miss in the dynamics of a lethal force situation, the round will not travel through several walls and exit my house. Chalk it up to years of being drilled into my head of shot accountability/responsibility and being potentially help liable for a miss or over penetration.

Ok. A lot of PD's pick varmint rounds because of liability concerns. Doesn't change the facts, though.

agreed. Varmint rounds are not suggested by any expert I have read. Dr. Gary Roberts specifically says it is a bad idea.

Posted: 11/15/2014 8:25:33 PM EDT

[#18]

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First, I would prefer less penetration for a home defense round than over penetration. I don't want a round to exit and end up potentially harming a family member or going into my subdivision. Second, as far as being a varmint round with lousy penetration, my experience is the 55g TAP Urban round which is what I have at home and is my issued ammo for my patrol rifle has performed well. I know one round stopped a full grown male who was intoxicated and from someone who was at the autopsy, it also did significant damage to internal tissue/organs. This is not a story of a guy who knows a guy that has a friend. It was an officer involved shooting at my agency. Besides I like a round where if I were to miss in the dynamics of a lethal force situation, the round will not travel through several walls and exit my house. Chalk it up to years of being drilled into my head of shot accountability/responsibility and being potentially help liable for a miss or over penetration.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Every rifle (4 total) sits in my safe with a 30rd mag of 55g TAP in the gun, no round chambered.

Varmint bullet with lousy penetration.

First, I would prefer less penetration for a home defense round than over penetration. I don't want a round to exit and end up potentially harming a family member or going into my subdivision. Second, as far as being a varmint round with lousy penetration, my experience is the 55g TAP Urban round which is what I have at home and is my issued ammo for my patrol rifle has performed well. I know one round stopped a full grown male who was intoxicated and from someone who was at the autopsy, it also did significant damage to internal tissue/organs. This is not a story of a guy who knows a guy that has a friend. It was an officer involved shooting at my agency. Besides I like a round where if I were to miss in the dynamics of a lethal force situation, the round will not travel through several walls and exit my house. Chalk it up to years of being drilled into my head of shot accountability/responsibility and being potentially help liable for a miss or over penetration.

This is why I use Hornady T2 TAP and MK262. Both are known as good HD loads that are LESS barrier blind. Most .223/5.56 will penetrate one sheetrock wall, but some less than others. The heavy OTMs have the energy and cavity characteristics (10-12" in gel) needed to kill bad guys, but are LESS likely to penetrate barriers. Light varmint rounds have great expansion, but don't penetrate deep enough. If the bullet expands too fast, it might not reach vitals.

Posted: 11/16/2014 1:05:36 AM EDT

[#19]

M193 (actually Winchester Q3131a) in a 20rd G.I. mag. If I have to shoot someone in the house, I want to be using ammo I picked up at Wally World rather than some nasty hollow point. For SHTF one ammo can has a mix of 69 SMKs and LC XM855s for LR, the rest are mostly XM193.

My wife prefers the Tactical 870 - 2rds of Federal Tactical 00 buck, then alternating 3" magnum slugs and 00 buck in case extra penetration is needed (no kids in the house).