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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:16:06 PM EDT
So walmart here has gotten some of the 500 round ammo cans of Tula 223 in stock. I have been shooting ARs for a long time and have never once put a single round of steel though any of them. I dont really plan to ether. But I picked up 2 of these cans with the intent to neckbeard them in the next panic that happens. However now I am thinking about cracking one open to see how they shoot. What does everyone think of this ammo? I dont think I would want to put my Colt or BCM though the pain of shooting steel cased ammo....
Mods move to GD is not tech enough. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:25:19 PM EDT
[#1]
My colt eats it fine but i tried it in an aug and the case stuck in it bad
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:30:47 PM EDT
[#2]
I never had any trouble with steel case in my LE6920 SOCOM.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:35:01 PM EDT
[#3]
has any of you bought the spam cans of this stuff? The same as any other tula 223? I Know it has 25 20 rounds boxes inside.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:44:04 PM EDT
[#4]
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:56:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds. They did mag dump after mag dump tell they could not hold the gun because it got so hot. That alone would destroy any barrel. I was under the assumption that it is still copper jacketed. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 7:00:48 PM EDT
[#6]
I've run this ammo before in a class with no problems, I keep some put back for if I'm running low on funds I can still take a class knowing it will work.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 7:53:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They did mag dump after mag dump tell they could not hold the gun because it got so hot. That alone would destroy any barrel. I was under the assumption that it is still copper jacketed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds. They did mag dump after mag dump tell they could not hold the gun because it got so hot. That alone would destroy any barrel. I was under the assumption that it is still copper jacketed. The bullet is copper plated and not thick enough to do any good. the money save shooting Steel cased ammo VS Brass cased ammo is enought to buy a new barrel and still have money left |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:21:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bullet is copper plated and not thick enough to do any good. the money save shooting Steel cased ammo VS Brass cased ammo is enought to buy a new barrel and still have money left Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds. They did mag dump after mag dump tell they could not hold the gun because it got so hot. That alone would destroy any barrel. I was under the assumption that it is still copper jacketed. The bullet is copper plated and not thick enough to do any good. the money save shooting Steel cased ammo VS Brass cased ammo is enought to buy a new barrel and still have money left Not a colt barrel. Don't think I could remove the barrel from a 6940. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:27:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
has any of you bought the spam cans of this stuff? The same as any other tula 223? I Know it has 25 20 rounds boxes inside. I bought a can to put away for a rainy day but haven't opened it, don't plan on it , maybe in a few decades, that is kind of the point of the SPAM can. They should be exactly the same, the pictures show the same box. They shoot fine in my PSA with FN barrel. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:43:03 PM EDT
[#10]
I use it quite a bit, though admittedly not as much as I used to, I prefer the performance of 5.56 to 223 but for back yard plinking it's hard to beat.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:45:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Shoots fine. It's a little under powered. Aim high.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:05:26 PM EDT
[#12]
I've shot about 1,000 rounds between several guns. It is ok but I recently lost 200 rounds in an ammo can while Jeeping ( bounced out) and wasn't too sad. With brass priced the way it is it isn't worth it to shoot steel, in my opinion. But, the stuff I shot was about 5 MOA with irons (and I'm a NOOB with the AR peep aperture) so it wasn't terrible.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:47:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a colt barrel. Don't think I could remove the barrel from a 6940. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds. They did mag dump after mag dump tell they could not hold the gun because it got so hot. That alone would destroy any barrel. I was under the assumption that it is still copper jacketed. The bullet is copper plated and not thick enough to do any good. the money save shooting Steel cased ammo VS Brass cased ammo is enought to buy a new barrel and still have money left Not a colt barrel. Don't think I could remove the barrel from a 6940. Look...... since you are already aware of the Lucky test and have decided to dismiss it............ You've made up your mind already. Shoot it if you want. Don't if you don't. But your thinking is flawed: Both types of ammo were shot under the same conditions. Both. So the US ammunition didn't wear out the barrel as fast as the Russian stuff under the same conditions. After that, google is your friend- google it and read the 10,000 posts back and forth about this. :) (The 10,000 posts on Ar15.com alone) |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:50:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Tula is my go to ammo for range use. Spikes 14.5 middy. Not one issue with it. Jmo.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:54:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Have shot thousands of rounds of this stuff. There isn't a damn thing wrong with this ammo.
If your rifle won't shoot this stuff, then sell your rifle and but one that will. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 11:52:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Somebody help me understand the science on why it were's out the barrel quicker??? I mean what has the brass vs. steel case got to do with it.. im dumb so please enlighten me.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:05:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somebody help me understand the science on why it were's out the barrel quicker??? I mean what has the brass vs. steel case got to do with it.. im dumb so please enlighten me. Tula has steel jacketed bullets. Steel bullets may cause more wear than a softer copper jacket. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:17:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somebody help me understand the science on why it were's out the barrel quicker??? I mean what has the brass vs. steel case got to do with it.. im dumb so please enlighten me. Google: -"lucky gunner test of brass vs steel" And read the test. -The issue with the barrels has to do with the "bi-metal" bullets used in the Russian ammunition. The copper plating is too thin and so the rifling cuts into the steel inside. So you have steel on steel wear. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:01:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Ive shot quite a bit of this stuff, ( not just in .223 - 9mm and .380 ) and have never had an issue. people will bitch and moan about who horrible it is, but ive shot it before, and i plan to keep shooting it.
I will say it is pretty dirty though. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:17:53 PM EDT
[#20]
i've never had any problems with it.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:31:04 PM EDT
[#21]
I picked up a case not to long ago and I have had no problems with it.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 7:39:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Google: -"lucky gunner test of brass vs steel" And read the test. -The issue with the barrels has to do with the "bi-metal" bullets used in the Russian ammunition. The copper plating is too thin and so the rifling cuts into the steel inside. So you have steel on steel wear. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Somebody help me understand the science on why it were's out the barrel quicker??? I mean what has the brass vs. steel case got to do with it.. im dumb so please enlighten me. Google: -"lucky gunner test of brass vs steel" And read the test. -The issue with the barrels has to do with the "bi-metal" bullets used in the Russian ammunition. The copper plating is too thin and so the rifling cuts into the steel inside. So you have steel on steel wear. Thats makes sense thanks for the reply TGH |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 8:32:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds. Really? If you are going to quote something, quote the whole picture, not the tidbit that suits your argument... The difference in price between brass and steel cased (more specifically, copper jacketed and bimetal jacketed) ammunition means that you’ll have plenty of savings with which to buy new barrels – even if you shoot so fast that you replace them every 4,000 rounds. For this chart, brass ammunition was calculated at $130 per thousand higher than steel and replacement barrels at $250 apiece. 
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Posted: 10/22/2014 8:40:39 AM EDT
[#24]
I have shot at least 1500 rounds of the stuff through my 16" Voodoo Middy. Yeah it is a little dirty, but I at least snake the bore after every shoot. Upside is it shoots flat out to 300yds, it's cheap, and you don't have to worry about picking up brass (depending on what range you use). Down side, It's not brass, and has a horrible stigma about it with those nose up, pretentious "I only shoot the finest brass forged by captive tibetan monks" people
 . (I actually had a Walmart attendant haughtily say he wouldn't run it through ANY AR because of it's steel case, and still believed it to be corrosive, also looked down on me because I was running it. Needless to say I will not go to that walmart ammo counter anymore) only other downside is the propensity for it to begin to gain light surface rust if not stored in dry conditions. I wouldn't expect the stuff to peel the berries off a deer tick at 200 yds, but I am impressed with how well it holds up compared to brass ammo. Fire away man!
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Posted: 10/22/2014 8:41:38 AM EDT
[#25]
I have shot at least 1500 rounds of the stuff through my 16" Voodoo Middy. Yeah it is a little dirty, but I at least snake the bore after every shoot. Upside is it shoots flat out to 300yds, it's cheap, and you don't have to worry about picking up brass (depending on what range you use). Down side, It's not brass, and has a horrible stigma about it with those nose up, pretentious "I only shoot the finest brass forged by captive tibetan monks" people
. (I actually had a Walmart attendant haughtily say he wouldn't run it through ANY AR because of it's steel case, and still believed it to be corrosive, also looked down on me because I was running it. Needless to say I will not go to that walmart ammo counter anymore) only other downside is the propensity for it to begin to gain light surface rust if not stored in dry conditions. I wouldn't expect the stuff to peel the berries off a deer tick at 200 yds, but I am impressed with how well it holds up compared to brass ammo. Fire away man!
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:18:27 PM EDT
[#26]
i've shot a ton of tula 223 out of my DD upper. never had a problem with it at all. some guy on youtube does a video where he compares prices and shows that with all the extra money you save from buying steel you can buy new extractors, barrels and like 500 extra rounds of steel
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Posted: 10/24/2014 12:44:10 AM EDT
[#27]
I can get hornady steel match 55 grain bthp for about 4 bucks more per 50 round boxes and 75 grain for just a little more than that. That stuff uses normal high quality bullets in a wolf case and it's very accurate for training and blasting ammo. I try to clean the shelves of it every chance I get at my lgs where it's almost always in stock at those prices.
That said I have no problem running tula, wolf, any of the bears or any other steel case ammo whatsoever. At the savings achieved over brass you can rebarrel every 6k or so with a noveske barrel or 2-3 less costly barrels and still come out ahead with a little money left to buy more steel ammo. Right now as cheap as wolf gold is that's what I'm hoarding at present time whenever I have enough scratch to a case or 2 when its on sale somewhere. Still use good stuff when playing around shooting for groups though. Another nice thing about the steel match is cheap heavy match grade bullets that hold a very respectable zero and being able to switch over to the expensive brass heavy bullets around the same weight and being pretty damn close to same poi without having to make huge zero adjustments most of the time and its become readily available again finally. You should try the stuff if you get a chance, you'll probably like it. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:35:17 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tula has steel jacketed bullets. Steel bullets may cause more wear than a softer copper jacket. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Somebody help me understand the science on why it were's out the barrel quicker??? I mean what has the brass vs. steel case got to do with it.. im dumb so please enlighten me. Tula has steel jacketed bullets. Steel bullets may cause more wear than a softer copper jacket. But is it the same as all Russian ammo? I think so. The commies shoot the same kind of bullet in their AKs and have no problems. Why does it wear out AR barrels? To answer the OP I have NOT shot tula in 223 but do shoot it in 45acp and 7.62x39 in 1911s and aks/sks's. I have shot a lot of Wolf though in 223. I think my barrels are all still good. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 4:17:47 AM EDT
[#29]
My 12 yr old beater Bushmaster has eaten around 1500 rds of Tula and probably at least 10 k of Wolf and I can't tell that the barrel is shot out. Still has the original extractor too. But I won't buy anymore Tula 9mm , that s some nasty unreliable crap in my G 19.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 5:24:53 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My 12 yr old beater Bushmaster has eaten around 1500 rds of Tula and probably at least 10 k of Wolf and I can't tell that the barrel is shot out. Still has the original extractor too. But I won't buy anymore Tula 9mm , that s some nasty unreliable crap in my G 19. Yep Tula 9mm is pure garbage. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 5:44:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Dont do it....
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Posted: 10/24/2014 5:58:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But is it the same as all Russian ammo? I think so. The commies shoot the same kind of bullet in their AKs and have no problems. Why does it wear out AR barrels? To answer the OP I have NOT shot tula in 223 but do shoot it in 45acp and 7.62x39 in 1911s and aks/sks's. I have shot a lot of Wolf though in 223. I think my barrels are all still good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Somebody help me understand the science on why it were's out the barrel quicker??? I mean what has the brass vs. steel case got to do with it.. im dumb so please enlighten me. Tula has steel jacketed bullets. Steel bullets may cause more wear than a softer copper jacket. But is it the same as all Russian ammo? I think so. The commies shoot the same kind of bullet in their AKs and have no problems. Why does it wear out AR barrels? To answer the OP I have NOT shot tula in 223 but do shoot it in 45acp and 7.62x39 in 1911s and aks/sks's. I have shot a lot of Wolf though in 223. I think my barrels are all still good. Look this gets beat to death about once a month......... so here is one link that might help: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/656236_WOLF_steel_cased__223_range_report.html&page=2 You are comparing apples to oranges: The light copper coating of Russian exported ammo to the Russian "mil-spec" ammunition designed for their rifles. To answer your question simply: They told the producers to make the jacket thicker for the Russian military stuff be cause they can and for the US market- they don't have the same standard. And they certainly didn't make sure the copper coating was thick enough for US barrels. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 7:06:18 AM EDT
[#33]
both my bcm, and sw both eat it. so does the palmetto upper i built.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:26:04 AM EDT
[#34]
I had to get a reduced power buffer spring to make Tula cycle. Wolf on the other hand works fine.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:39:17 AM EDT
[#35]
all of mine gobble it up.
even suppresses well. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:39:29 AM EDT
[#36]
I don't personally shoot any of the Tula ammo, but If it were me, every time I picked up a thousand rounds, I would put $50 back for a new barrel. That way when you start seeing the drop off in accuracy (or whatever passes for accuracy when shooting Tula
 ), you will be already have enough to get a new barrel.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 11:00:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Tula is ok ammo for most but each gun is picky about what it likes. I have one that won't shoot the stuff reliably at all but others it works well in. Test it and have fun.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 4:11:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had to get a reduced power buffer spring to make Tula cycle. Wolf on the other hand works fine. My STG556 Won't cycle Tula reliably either but eats Wolf like a fat kid gobbling m&ms, no probs on the AR's it is underpowered for sure. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 9:00:27 AM EDT
[#39]
All my ars eat tula and wolf reliably. I use it for range plinking all the time. Money saved easily outweighs extra wear....
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:20:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Best price I've seen on Wolf Gold works out to about 30 cents per round by mail. My local Walmart has Tula tins for about 25 cents including tax. At those prices I don't think it's worth it to reload so I can just leave the cases on the ground.
What is wearing out in barrels that shoot steel ammo? Is it the rifling--or is it the chamber cone being worn down by the steel case mouth? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:16:27 AM EDT
[#41]
"What is wearing out in barrels that shoot steel ammo? Is it the rifling--or is it the chamber cone being worn down by the steel case mouth?"
Read page one of this post................. The answer is there. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 11:18:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Well then let me put it another way -- Doesn't the steel case itself cause faster wear on the chamber?
What does one measure to confirm a barrel is "shot out"? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:12:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well then let me put it another way -- Doesn't the steel case itself cause faster wear on the chamber? What does one measure to confirm a barrel is "shot out"? Since you don't want to read the thread, lets put it this way..... The steel cases are not the problem, in and of themselves..... it's the bi-metal jacket bullets that come with the steel cases that are the real problem. Steel cased Russian ammo has bi-metal jacket bullets. Bi-metal jacket bullets are made of steel and have a thin copper coating. The cooper coated steel bullets wear down the barrel faster than cooper coated lead bullets do. Whether or not the extra wear is enough to be a concern to you is up to each individual shooter. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:29:05 PM EDT
[#44]
There's nothing really wrong with shooting steel case ammo unless your gun is built wrong.... It seems anymore all i shoot through my AR is tula.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:36:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's nothing really wrong with shooting steel case ammo unless your gun is built wrong.... It seems anymore all i shoot through my AR is tula. Exactly, as long as you don't mind the copper clad steel bullets. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:26:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They did mag dump after mag dump tell they could not hold the gun because it got so hot. That alone would destroy any barrel. I was under the assumption that it is still copper jacketed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
luckgunner the online ammo store did a test. IIRC they killed a barrel in 3000 rounds with this stuff, where as the cheep federal still didn't kill a barrel after 10000 rounds. They did mag dump after mag dump tell they could not hold the gun because it got so hot. That alone would destroy any barrel. I was under the assumption that it is still copper jacketed. You make it sound like they did mag dumps with Tula and slow fire with Federal. They did mag dump after mag dump with Federal too and it lasted at least 3-4x longer. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 10:57:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since you don't want to read the thread, lets put it this way..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well then let me put it another way -- Doesn't the steel case itself cause faster wear on the chamber? What does one measure to confirm a barrel is "shot out"? Since you don't want to read the thread, lets put it this way..... But I did read the entire thread. .. and the entire test article. Chamber erosion was a big factor in the test but how does Joe Sixpack Measure rifling wear or chamber wear? I got the impression from the article that they really didn't understand why Tula ammo failed so quickly in an ordinary AR but in another gun went thousands more rounds with no more failures than the other steel bullets. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 7:33:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But I did read the entire thread. .. and the entire test article. Chamber erosion was a big factor in the test but how does Joe Sixpack Measure rifling wear or chamber wear? I got the impression from the article that they really didn't understand why Tula ammo failed so quickly in an ordinary AR but in another gun went thousands more rounds with no more failures than the other steel bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well then let me put it another way -- Doesn't the steel case itself cause faster wear on the chamber? What does one measure to confirm a barrel is "shot out"? Since you don't want to read the thread, lets put it this way..... But I did read the entire thread. .. and the entire test article. Chamber erosion was a big factor in the test but how does Joe Sixpack Measure rifling wear or chamber wear? I got the impression from the article that they really didn't understand why Tula ammo failed so quickly in an ordinary AR but in another gun went thousands more rounds with no more failures than the other steel bullets. The Tula failure in the Bushmaster really has nothing to do with the steel case or the bi-metal jacket bullet. I am not going to quote the whole section, but they are pretty clear why the Tula did badly. It has to do with the powder Tula uses vs, the barrel length and gas systems in different rifles. One of the first questions one might have after reading the above treatise is, “What happened with Tula?”
After all, it consists of a 55 grain bimetal jacketed lead core projectile loaded in a polymer coated steel case, and this description is by no means an outlier compared to the other ammunition in the test. In terms of velocity, Tula was also in line with the other products. Tula functioned very well in a Spike’s Tactical midlength, which saw 6,000 rounds of Tula without any cleaning and only had three malfunctions. But in the Bushmaster carbine, Tula was a no-go. In terms of functional problems, there were two major issues with Tula: “short stroking” – a failure of the bolt to fully cycle to the rear – and extraction problems. Further research and experimentation indicated that there was likely one factor which contributed to both failure types. Chamber pressure measurements indicated that Tula had the second highest chamber pressure of any ammunition in the test when all barrels were new, and these results were verified in a separate test barrel which was used for all ammunition types. Federal was highest with a maximum average pressure of 52kpsi and Tula followed with 51kpsi. Wolf registered 47.5kpsi with Brown Bear close behind at 47kpsi. Basically, the powder burns too fast, and by the time the bullet has reached the barrel, the pressure drops. The rise time of Tula, defined as the time in microseconds for pressure to rise from 25% to 75% of maximum chamber pressure, is 175ms. In comparison, Federal AE223, depending on temperature, has a rise time of 260-300ms. |
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