I know the .223 was originally invented to be a varmint round. Experts like Jeff Cooper called it a "mouse round" and the military adopted the 5.56 with extra pressure to apparently stop enemy soldiers. My question is; If I wanted to hunt a large hog, is there a round that will perform better. My gun club is having it's typical bi annual shoot this month and the day before that I have a chance to go on a hog hunt. I want to limit the number of rifles I carry this trip, so I was hoping to limit myself to my AR-15 or Mini-14, but my friends tell me that round is "border line" when going after large hogs. I have Googled all the differences between 5.56 and .223, read about "green tips", rifle twist etc, but no article has come and said "such and such a round gives you more stopping power then typical .223 range ammo". I will not be shooting at long distances and I am not trying for tiny groups, I just want something that I know will humanly put down a hog. Does the extra pressure of 5.56 actually give you more wallop and knock down power? All I seem to read about is extra penetration and accuracy. I read about the heavier bullets, .64/.75/.77 but they seem to be more for accuracy not stopping power and there is always someone that comments that unless your twist is 1:7 the heavier bullets do not make a difference.
I guess my question for all of you that understand AR-15 ammo ballistics is; If you had an angry charging feral hog coming at you, which round would you want in your rifle? Will the 1:10 twist on my Mini make any significant difference compared to the 1:9 of my AR? If I have to end up packing my 30-06 so be it, but I will be traveling on a work related business trip immediately before the hunt and I do not especially want too be carrying more rifles then I need.

1. You almost lost me a "knock down".   No bullet has enough energy to "knock down" any large animal if it's not also knocking you down when you fire it.  Equal and opposite and all that.

2. Twist rate concerns are for stabilizing the longer, heavier bullets more than the terminal effectiveness.  1:9 won't give you the best stability in the heavier bullets and you may keyhole.

3. My personal bullet preference for effective hunting ammo for .223/5.56 is the Barnes TSX / TTSX.  There are several ammo manufacturers loading this bullet.  Solid copper, expands reliably, retains mass.  They are available in several weights from 50gr to 70gr.  The 70gr will likely be unstable from your 1:9 gun, so you would be better served with a 62gr.

Do your part and make a good shot and it will put down any hog/deer sized game.

The .223 load should be sufficient, a similar load can be found from Remington in their "Hog Hammer" line.
http://www.primaryarms.com/Black_Hills_223_Remington_62gr_Barnes_TSX_Box_o_p/d223n18.htm

but Black Hills recently came out with a hotter 5.56 62gr TSX load if you can find it in stock:
http://blackhillsammo.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/black-hills-ammunition-new-for-2013-the-optimized-5-56mm-62-gr-tsx/

"Knock Down" is a term I learned a s kid from a police officer at my church. He used to describe "knock down" vs "velocity" using a 44mag as an example of good knock down power and .357mag as a round with more velocity. I stuck with the term, maybe it is not accurate in this case.

The notion comes from a lead wadcutter that is heavier with more frontal area imparting more energy to the target in a shorter distance, but unless that .44 can literally knock you on your butt when you shoot it, it won't have that effect on the target either.

Until you start talking about projectile weight in ounces and pounds instead of grains, there's no Hollywood-style "knock down" when something deer/hog/man sized gets shot.

Ironic considering that the .357 has the greatest record, and percentage of one shot stops on humans out of ALL handgun rounds, even the .44 magnum.  So even by his definition, the .357 would have greater "knock down" power than the .44!

62gr TSX




.

Might want to do some research.  Marshall and Sanow ain't it.

I suggest you read the ammo frequently asked questions section of this forum. It is the best compilation of .223/5.56 ammo info I've found on the web, and will learn you a thing or two about basic ballistics. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/503947_AR15_Ammo_Forum_FAQ.html

The short answer is no. There is no magic bullet. My opinion is that .223/5.56 shouldn't be used on anything bigger than a deer. In many states, .223 isnt even legal to deer hunt with. If I'm looking for big bucks, I'm bringing a bigger gun. 75 grain Hornady TAP has worked well for me out of 1:7 16" barrels for hunting medium sized does with good shot placement.

Oh?  Do you have evidence to the contrary of .357 magnum being the most effective handgun stopper?

Nailed it, especially the response contained in Number One.

True.

TN recently started allowing .223/5,56mm on deer. I'm sure that with the right ammo and good shot placement deer will fall to the mouse round.

Definitely go with something with a polymer ballistic tip.  A lot of the heavier pills for the .223 are listed as "Hollow Point" but they are usually "Open Tip" match bullets.  The open tip is a result of the manufacturing process to pull the jacket around the core from the base up.  These won't do as well at expanding as a bullet designed to expand.   I think a well placed 60gr Hornady V-max would serve you well.   The Barnes bullets are also good from all accounts I've read, but I have no personal experience with them.

I hope you mean A-max and not V-max.
The V-max is designed for explosive fragmentation in small game, the "V" stands for "varmint"
You need the weight retention and penetration of the A-max or SST if you go with that style bullet.

The TSX is ideal for what you're wanting. A 223 projectile that fragments isn't going to do what you want it to whereas the monolithic TSX will hold together after hitting bone. If I were going out hunting hogs I don't think you could pick a better round for a 5.56 AR.

Thanks, I have done some reading as suggested and it sounds like my AR will do fine and especially if I pick up some TSX that is mentioned. I guess the next step it so try the ammo out at the range and make sure there are no issues then the hunt is on! BTW I love the DOG/AR picture

He's my backup buddy

TSX

5.56 will work on Hogs with good shot placement. You will probably want to be within 100 yards and have perfect shot placement on the bigger hogs.

I typically have good hunting ethics, and want quick ethical kills. However, hogs are pretty much considered vermin. I've hunted them with "green tip" FMJ. Shot placement is crucial if you want to recover the meat. If you want to find them, stay away from FMJ. The TSX will work, if that is too pricey for you, any soft point hunting bullet will work better than green tip FMJ.

I'd recommend getting a heavy projectile that is suitable for your barrel, and re-zeroing your sights/optics for that round. I find it also helps to print out a ballistic table and bring it with you, or memorize the likely shooting distances given the terrain (if you know that in advance).

Way too many people miss or wound game while hunting because they don't pay attention to the details of their ammo, holds, and atmospheric conditions. These things combined with whatever amount of shooting fundamentals error the shooter has tend to add up.

On the occasions where I went hog hunting with my cousin we always used a rifle in .308

However for those times when the .308 didn't do the job another shooter stood by as back-up shooter with a .44 Magnum revolver.

Only saw the 44 Mag revolver brought into play once, but it dropped the charging hog in 3 steps or so.

I know the 5.56 can drop a hog with a well placed shot ( I have seen hogs taken with 55 grain projectiles ) , but it would be smart to have something heavier in reserve.

80gr SMK
Over 18.5 gr of 3031
OAL of 2.33

It's hell on pork

I have had a destruction permit for deer in the orchard for over 20 years.
I started out using my AR15 with 55gr FMJ hand loaded to 3000fps and a 6 cell maglite taped to the hand guard.
Shots were 100yds or less.
Shots to the head or standard behind the front leg chest shots dropped them like Thor's hammer.
Most dropped where they stood or made it a few yards.

After all the people that said "I want the deer, call me and I'll be right out" never showed I started to gut shoot
them in hopes they would run off the property to die. None of them made it more than 50 yards after being hit anywhere in the main body area.
Trust me that little mouse round is a deer killer and I have hundreds of examples to prove it. Fancy projectiles are not necessary.

As time evolved I started using .22lr to disturb the neighbors less at night. Head or chest shots still effective, many again like Thor's hammer.
It is what I use today.

When I started I was open to the ineffective mouse round hype but quickly learned different.
For a test I shot one with the same hand loaded FMJ at 300yds in the daytime. Result.... Thor's hammer again, never took a step.
Don't know where the round entered. I spent 20 min looking for an entrance wound, never found one.
I guess the .223 is so effective it can scare them to death!

I'm sure that would make a nice speedboat shaped hole in some tree near the critter out of his 1:9 twist barrel.

One in seven is heaven -
But my mild load will hit close at 100 out of a 1:9

I've killed several with it.  It does it well.

DO NOT listen to this advise.  Posts like this make me sad.

I have the same basic question. Does anyone have experience with DRT AMMO? Seems interesting.

The 62gr federal bonded loads hold together really well, I've never seen one completely disintegrate like most non bonded rounds will. When I was a kid hog hunting in south Texas we always used the cheapest surplus 5.56 we could find. It was usually lake city 55 gr ammo and it dropped hogs like nobodies busness , they are not as tough as people make them out to b but you have to hit them in the chest or nervous system if you want a quick kill just like anything else.   Prior to hog hunting becoming popular in the 90's most were killed with .22's. People like to romanticise how tough they are to make themselves feel better I guess, they are also not dangerous like people make them out to be but they can't see well and if you scatter a group they will run in all directions and might run towards you in confusion. One thing not exaggerated is the amount of damage they can do to land and crops, my family used to farm adjacent to the Kennedy ranch in Tx and the hogs would wipe out melon and Milo fields. It was a very target rich environment for us kids and great fun not so much for my uncles who lost their crops.

TSX, Gold Dot or Fusion.

Shot placement is key.

I have been hunting hogs in Texas for a couple of years. Most are in the 150-200 pound range but occasionally get bigger. While everyone keeps talking about "good shot placement", no-one has said what that really means. With a .223 you basically have an area about the size of a baseball that will drop them on the spot (I aim roughly 2 inches behind and below the ear). If you miss that, they are going to run. You will be amazed how fast and how far they can run once shot. With a larger caliber you have a much greater margin of error. You also have more penetration if you happen to hit a bone or the 2-3 inches of "hard fat" on the shoulder. I have seen a large hog take 6 body shots from a .223 and still make it 100+ yards before finally falling over. Also seen a few hogs that I know were hit a couple of times with .223 that were never found. I have personally not seen a hog hit with .308 that we were not able to retrieve within 50-75 yards.  

You may think "hey, hitting a baseball size target is easy". Just remember that this baseball size target is moving. Even when eating, they have a habit of "popping up" ever so often to smell for food or danger. I experimented with lots of rounds but finally settled on 154gr lead-point 7.62x39 on an AR upper. Any time I have someone new to hog hunting I hand them my .308 since I HATE tracking hogs at night. I eat ALL the hogs I shoot. If you prep them properly (gut them immediately and ice them with apple cider vinegar for 4-5 days) it will be some of the best meat you have ever eaten. If you don't prep them properly, it will be so nasty the dogs won't even eat it (true story on that one).

If you are still set on using .223, go with the heaviest bullet you can find. Definitely want something that will mushroom but stay together since hogs are pretty well armored at least up in the front shoulder area.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=9&t=664595

Some of the pics are not working but you get the idea.

If I were you OP, I'd take a good hard look at the new 64gr Nosler Bonded Solid Base bullets. These bullets are hammers on any small game. I load my own, but you can find factory loaded rounds for about $15/20rds.

1-9, 62gr tsx

1-7, 70gr tsx

Pure awesomeness

FIFY

What are the thoughts on the Nosler 60 Grain Partition Spitzer? And what Powder would be best TAC,H-322,RL-15? They will go in a 223 Wylde Chamber 1-8 Twist 16" . Thus I can load to 5.56 pressures or so I have read?

Thank You. :o)

Try the Reloading Forum - Eric802

The NP loses too much of the front section for my liking, 40%/24grs.

24grs of IMR 4895 was my load, not too hot, 3000 fps.

P