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Posted: 9/5/2014 10:09:39 PM EDT
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Posted: 9/6/2014 4:32:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Looks like very similar to their 55gr BlitzKings.
Are these going to be "approved" by Sierra for hunting?
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Posted: 9/6/2014 12:26:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Anyone know when/where these will be available?
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Posted: 9/6/2014 3:27:08 PM EDT
[#3]
What does the tip offer over the regular non-tipped MK262? Not trying to be provocative but just curious. I assume it offers something. Maybe better BC..
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Posted: 9/6/2014 3:39:24 PM EDT
[#4]
BC went from .360 to .420.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 4:21:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Yes. Thanks. I read the BH post a little late. Looks to have a few real advantages.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BC went from .360 to .420. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:32:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Too bad as of now, they (Sierra) will NOT be offering the bullets as a component... those tipped SMK's are supposed to be a Black Hills exclusive.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:34:25 PM EDT
[#7]
These have been on the BH website for several months. Can't wait till they are out.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:34:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too bad as of now, they (Sierra) will NOT be offering the bullets as a component... those tipped SMK's are supposed to be a Black Hills exclusive. Hornady needs to do the same thing... |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:56:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hornady needs to do the same thing... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Too bad as of now, they (Sierra) will NOT be offering the bullets as a component... those tipped SMK's are supposed to be a Black Hills exclusive. Hornady needs to do the same thing... Is Hornady Amax a similar bullet? It is a tipped OTM with a secant ogive profile. The BH 77gr TMK has bad ass results. What is the velocity? |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:58:28 PM EDT
[#10]
The AMAX is too long for an AR magazine.
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Posted: 9/7/2014 2:24:52 PM EDT
[#11]
You have my attention.
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Posted: 9/8/2014 4:15:01 PM EDT
[#12]
All,
The TMK are magazine length. Jeff Edited for clarification |
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Posted: 9/8/2014 4:59:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All, The TMK are magazine length. Jeff Edited for clarification I figured that much. That's what makes this better than an AMAX. When do they ship? |
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Posted: 9/8/2014 5:41:29 PM EDT
[#14]
What's the 5.56 77gr TMK velocity?
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Posted: 9/8/2014 5:58:56 PM EDT
[#15]
IMI MK262 SMK non tipped While you wait for BH
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Posted: 9/8/2014 11:26:14 PM EDT
[#16]
The round itself looks promising and I can't wait to get my hands on some, but that gel test is a little ridiculous.
Look at that BB calibration! ~3.5in with a BB gun? Really? If I am not mistaken the correct calibration is ~1.6-1.8in of penetration with a BB. Hopefully someone who knows a little more can chime in here. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 12:22:54 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The round itself looks promising and I can't wait to get my hands on some, but that gel test is a little ridiculous. Look at that BB calibration! ~3.5in with a BB gun? Really? If I am not mistaken the correct calibration is ~1.6-1.8in of penetration with a BB. Hopefully someone who knows a little more can chime in here. The correct BB calibration is 3.25-3.75" .177cal at 600 fps. Which is why its laughable when people recommend using vmax loads that only penetrate ~6" in bare gel. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 4:21:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Minimum velocity needed for upset?
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Posted: 9/9/2014 10:42:06 AM EDT
[#19]
All,
We are running 556 77 TMK right now. It might take a week or two to hit dealer shelves. Re min velocity, we have tested as low as 1920 fps and it is still performing well. We will continue testing to see where it stops.. . Jeff |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 11:35:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All, We are running 556 77 TMK right now. It might take a week or two to hit dealer shelves. Re min velocity, we have tested as low as 1920 fps and it is still performing well. We will continue testing to see where it stops.. . Jeff Is the 2750fps an average/target from an actual 16" AR15, or from a SAAMI test-type fixture with a longer barrel? |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 11:50:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All, We are running 556 77 TMK right now. It might take a week or two to hit dealer shelves. Re min velocity, we have tested as low as 1920 fps and it is still performing well. We will continue testing to see where it stops.. . Jeff Who are you, Jeff? Are you with Black Hills, or Sierra? 
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Posted: 9/9/2014 12:06:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who are you, Jeff? Are you with Black Hills, or Sierra? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All, We are running 556 77 TMK right now. It might take a week or two to hit dealer shelves. Re min velocity, we have tested as low as 1920 fps and it is still performing well. We will continue testing to see where it stops.. . Jeff Who are you, Jeff? Are you with Black Hills, or Sierra? Jeff is with Black Hills, most likely, given his location of South Dakota, which coincides with Black Hill's location, vs. Missouri, which is where Sierra is located, but that screen-name... Also, Jeff...are these primers staked and sealed? Just staked? What about case-necks...crimped? DO the bullets have a cannelure? Sealed case-necks? |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 12:12:59 PM EDT
[#23]
This is looking like an IDEAL "house gun" load, from my vantage point. 12"+ of penetration, massive TSC at meaningful velocity, and it has a low chance of leaving the structure. I wouldn't carry it in a situation where I thought vehicles or other things would be involved, but for the livingroom, or dropping Bambi? This looks like the ticket!
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Posted: 9/9/2014 12:17:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The correct BB calibration is 3.25-3.75" .177cal at 600 fps. Which is why its laughable when people recommend using vmax loads that only penetrate ~6" in bare gel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The round itself looks promising and I can't wait to get my hands on some, but that gel test is a little ridiculous. Look at that BB calibration! ~3.5in with a BB gun? Really? If I am not mistaken the correct calibration is ~1.6-1.8in of penetration with a BB. Hopefully someone who knows a little more can chime in here. The correct BB calibration is 3.25-3.75" .177cal at 600 fps. Which is why its laughable when people recommend using vmax loads that only penetrate ~6" in bare gel. Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification. Looking forward to some of Skypup's pictures of hog kills with this round! |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 12:20:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification. Looking forward to some of Skypup's pictures of hog kills with this round! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The round itself looks promising and I can't wait to get my hands on some, but that gel test is a little ridiculous. Look at that BB calibration! ~3.5in with a BB gun? Really? If I am not mistaken the correct calibration is ~1.6-1.8in of penetration with a BB. Hopefully someone who knows a little more can chime in here. The correct BB calibration is 3.25-3.75" .177cal at 600 fps. Which is why its laughable when people recommend using vmax loads that only penetrate ~6" in bare gel. Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification. Looking forward to some of Skypup's pictures of hog kills with this round! I would imagine they will be pretty boring. You won't get massive exits on a large hog with that. It will be a dime going in, and a mush-bucket on the inside, and a very quickly dead hog, at least, on larger hogs. Thin piggies might get a pass through that should be impressive! |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 3:22:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who are you, Jeff? Are you with Black Hills, or Sierra? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All, We are running 556 77 TMK right now. It might take a week or two to hit dealer shelves. Re min velocity, we have tested as low as 1920 fps and it is still performing well. We will continue testing to see where it stops.. . Jeff Who are you, Jeff? Are you with Black Hills, or Sierra? Jeff is Jeff Hoffman, the boss at Black Hills. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 5:18:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The AMAX is too long for an AR magazine. except don't they make a 52 amax? But yeah, it is my understanding the 75 amax is too long. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 5:21:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
except don't they make a 52 amax? But yeah, it is my understanding the 75 amax is too long. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The AMAX is too long for an AR magazine. except don't they make a 52 amax? But yeah, it is my understanding the 75 amax is too long. They do, but it's irrelevant. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 6:11:39 PM EDT
[#29]
You're right. You weren't talking about them. Sorry about that.
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Posted: 9/10/2014 11:59:52 AM EDT
[#30]
All,
I should have identified myself clearly, As noted I am with Black Hills Ammo. The 2750 fps is from a 20" barrel. Standard velocity measurement for 556 is from a 20" unless otherwise noted. I have never hunted hogs, but from what I understand penetration can be an issue since they have tough shoulder plates. If I were going hog hunting, I think the 62 TSX might be a better choice. Jeff Hoffman, Black Hills Ammunition |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 12:17:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Yes!
Finally, an "AMax" loaded to magazine length.... An AMax Mk262, if you will. Nice!
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Posted: 9/10/2014 12:43:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Hey Jeff,
Good to know! That is definitely an exciting load! Do you have any ideas as to what dealers may be stocking it? I love the 5.56 77gr SMK non tipped, so the tipped is going to be simply awesome. Please let us know where we can get our grubby paws on this. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 3:35:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes! Finally, an "AMax" loaded to magazine length.... An AMax Mk262, if you will. Nice! Yeah, I agree. It is a good offering. And black hills ammo is great stuff. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 6:04:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Sigman 1984,
You can call the office. If you provide your zip they can point you to a dealer in your area or hook you up with a dealer that can ship to you. You might ask for Carl if he is available. I will tell him of the possible request coning in. 800 568 6625. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 6:05:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Just playing with the ballistics calculator and I am excited.
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Posted: 9/10/2014 8:22:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BC went from .360 to .420. .420 - wow. Beats the crap out of Hornady 75 BTHP. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 10:25:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sigman 1984, You can call the office. If you provide your zip they can point you to a dealer in your area or hook you up with a dealer that can ship to you. You might ask for Carl if he is available. I will tell him of the possible request coning in. 800 568 6625. Thanks Jeff will do. I'm sure other guys here would want to order too. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 6:50:17 AM EDT
[#38]
WOW that is an amazing looking load.
6" TC and .420 BC. 
"The tip also improves terminal ballistics, increasing uniformity of performance and penetration when the projectile arrives on target." Even though I really like bonded SPs, I am curious how the tip will improve barrier penetration, if at all? Or maybe just more consistency in unobstructed shots. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 7:01:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Probably worse through barriers.
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Posted: 9/12/2014 7:08:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably worse through barriers. I was thinking that, but I don't know how it would improve terminal ballistics at all, unless they mean just by maintaining more velocity at distance due to the larger BC. I would imagine it would move the center of gravity somewhat further up, and delay yaw, even if by a little bit. In any event, the 1" neck length they demonstrate is still stellar. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 8:38:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was thinking that, but I don't know how it would improve terminal ballistics at all, unless they mean just by maintaining more velocity at distance due to the larger BC. I would imagine it would move the center of gravity somewhat further up, and delay yaw, even if by a little bit. In any event, the 1" neck length they demonstrate is still stellar. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Probably worse through barriers. I was thinking that, but I don't know how it would improve terminal ballistics at all, unless they mean just by maintaining more velocity at distance due to the larger BC. I would imagine it would move the center of gravity somewhat further up, and delay yaw, even if by a little bit. In any event, the 1" neck length they demonstrate is still stellar. The tip initiates expansion, like an AMax, instead of relying on the possibility of fragmentation.
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Posted: 9/12/2014 8:45:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The tip initiates expansion, like an AMax, instead of relying on the possibility of fragmentation. So the tip turns a Mk262 (normally) fragmenting round into an expanding round? 
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Posted: 9/12/2014 9:29:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the tip turns a Mk262 (normally) fragmenting round into an expanding round? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The tip initiates expansion, like an AMax, instead of relying on the possibility of fragmentation. So the tip turns a Mk262 (normally) fragmenting round into an expanding round? From the ballistic gel image.... you can see that the bullet frags... it just starts earlier because of the tip being forced into the bullet. This bullet is designed from the get go to work like that..... not to mention the big increase in BC. Rather than relying on the OTM / fragmenting design of the Mk 262 77 SMK... remember that bullet was designed to meet the rules of war....and a reliable HP is a big No-No in those rules. In those rules the Mk 262 was allowed because the OTM part just aided accuracy. This bullet is pretty much the pinnacle of soft target 77gr bullet designs... ( IMHO... note SOFT TARGET ) |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 9:51:00 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the ballistic gel image.... you can see that the bullet frags... it just starts earlier because of the tip being forced into the bullet. This bullet is designed from the get go to work like that..... not to mention the big increase in BC. Rather than relying on the OTM / fragmenting design of the Mk 262 77 SMK... remember that bullet was designed to meet the rules of war....and a reliable HP is a big No-No in those rules. In those rules the Mk 262 was allowed because the OTM part just aided accuracy. This bullet is pretty much the pinnacle of soft target 77gr bullet designs... ( IMHO... note SOFT TARGET ) No, I know. I said that because it was obvious the bullet fragmented. By the way, we do utilize reliable hollow points. Look up Optimized Brown Tip (70gr TSX). |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 10:58:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the tip turns a Mk262 (normally) fragmenting round into an expanding round? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The tip initiates expansion, like an AMax, instead of relying on the possibility of fragmentation. So the tip turns a Mk262 (normally) fragmenting round into an expanding round? Yes, but it happens to upset enough to fragment (like a varmint bullet... It's still an expanding round, but it expands to the point of fragmentation). This is much different than hoping, wishing, and praying that a match bullet to yaw and fragment, which is something it was never designed to do.  |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 4:07:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I know. I said that because it was obvious the bullet fragmented. By the way, we do utilize reliable hollow points. Look up Optimized Brown Tip (70gr TSX). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
From the ballistic gel image.... you can see that the bullet frags... it just starts earlier because of the tip being forced into the bullet. This bullet is designed from the get go to work like that..... not to mention the big increase in BC. Rather than relying on the OTM / fragmenting design of the Mk 262 77 SMK... remember that bullet was designed to meet the rules of war....and a reliable HP is a big No-No in those rules. In those rules the Mk 262 was allowed because the OTM part just aided accuracy. This bullet is pretty much the pinnacle of soft target 77gr bullet designs... ( IMHO... note SOFT TARGET ) No, I know. I said that because it was obvious the bullet fragmented. By the way, we do utilize reliable hollow points. Look up Optimized Brown Tip (70gr TSX). Are you saying the military uses this 70 grain round when you say "we"? |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 7:34:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I know. I said that because it was obvious the bullet fragmented. By the way, we do utilize reliable hollow points. Look up Optimized Brown Tip (70gr TSX). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
From the ballistic gel image.... you can see that the bullet frags... it just starts earlier because of the tip being forced into the bullet. This bullet is designed from the get go to work like that..... not to mention the big increase in BC. Rather than relying on the OTM / fragmenting design of the Mk 262 77 SMK... remember that bullet was designed to meet the rules of war....and a reliable HP is a big No-No in those rules. In those rules the Mk 262 was allowed because the OTM part just aided accuracy. This bullet is pretty much the pinnacle of soft target 77gr bullet designs... ( IMHO... note SOFT TARGET ) No, I know. I said that because it was obvious the bullet fragmented. By the way, we do utilize reliable hollow points. Look up Optimized Brown Tip (70gr TSX). Excellent point... are those allowed in declared full on war .... or "police type conflicts" that "aren't " declared war ? |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 5:12:53 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent point... are those allowed in declared full on war .... or "police type conflicts" that "aren't " declared war ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
From the ballistic gel image.... you can see that the bullet frags... it just starts earlier because of the tip being forced into the bullet. This bullet is designed from the get go to work like that..... not to mention the big increase in BC. Rather than relying on the OTM / fragmenting design of the Mk 262 77 SMK... remember that bullet was designed to meet the rules of war....and a reliable HP is a big No-No in those rules. In those rules the Mk 262 was allowed because the OTM part just aided accuracy. This bullet is pretty much the pinnacle of soft target 77gr bullet designs... ( IMHO... note SOFT TARGET ) No, I know. I said that because it was obvious the bullet fragmented. By the way, we do utilize reliable hollow points. Look up Optimized Brown Tip (70gr TSX). Excellent point... are those allowed in declared full on war .... or "police type conflicts" that "aren't " declared war ? I thought they were only in use by special forces types and the "rules" did not apply to them. |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 11:12:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Rules, RULES, We don't need no stinking rules!
Excerpted from Military rifle bullet wound patterns by Martin L. Fackler "The principal provision relating to the legality of weapons is contained in Art. 23e of the Annex to Hague Convention IV Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land of 18 October 1907, which prohibits the employment of "arms, projectiles, or material of a nature to cause superfluous injury." In some law of war treatises, the term "unnecessary suffering" is used rather than "superfluous injury." The terms are regarded as synonymous. To emphasize this, Art. 35, para. 2 of the 1977 Protocol I Additional to the Geneva Conventions of August 12,1949, states in part that "It is prohibited to employ weapons [and] projectiles . . . of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering." Although the U.S. has made the formal decision that for military, political, and humanitarian reasons it will not become a party to Protocol I, U.S. officials have taken the position that the language of Art. 35(2) of Protocol I as quoted is a codification of customary international law, and therefore binding upon all nations." |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 2:33:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Jeff,
Any update on the status of the TMK ammo? |
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