I'm looking to load my own .50 slap ammo. The primer, powder, case and plastic sabot projectile (plastic cup) are easy to come by. But I'm having troubles finding the .30 tungsten carbine penetrators at a reasonable cost. I have the dimensions of the penetrator and I found a company that can manufacture them.

1) i know its legal to own, shoot, buy and sell existing .30 cal tungsten carbide penetrator. But is it legal to have a company manufacturer new ones for personal use? Is it legally defined as armor piercing ammo? Kind of odd because its a .30 round but its being fired out of a .50 cal rifle

2) is there anything special about the penetrators like how they are made or the material they are made of or is all tungsten carbide pretty much the same?

Thank!

IIRC the Federal regulations are geared towards manufacturing AP handgun ammunition. That being said, I'm pretty sure there are a few .50 BMG handguns out there, so you are looking at a grey area. I suggest a inquiry to the BATFE for clarification on this. You do not want to be a test case...



1DD

The handfull of .50 bmg handguns don't pass the "in common use" test so it's not a grey area.

The shop your wanting to make the penetrators will have to have a FFL, type 10 sot class 2. Not cheap to get.

And your nomenclature is wrong. While the penetrator is .30 cal, it's not a .30 cal bullet. In no way would it be used sans it's sabot. Think of it as a component and not a .30 cal bullet.

I hope you've got a M2 cause any of the available shoulder fired .50bmgs have big ass muzzle brakes and that means no SLAP rounds unless you wanna shoot the brake down range too.

Is the FFL type 10/Sot Class2 required to make a few prototypes for the purpose of testing to see if a design is even viable?

If you have them "made" ... then it is illegal.

You can load your own ammo with existing bullets.... but you can not have them made for yourself.

If it was legal , then you would see far more info on them.

A few years ago Barnes Bullets got in trouble with the powers at be for their Bronze solids. The ATF decided those solids were to close to a manufactured armor piercing bullet. .... ( By their definition , the ATF's )

It was because they were made completely out of type of metal alloy. One that could be considered illegal.

Your Tungsten bullets would certainly fall under their definition.

Was the round they got in trouble for .50 cal?

You can buy brand new factor API .50 cal BMG rounds directly from the manufacturer. I was always under the impression a company can make and sell bullet/ammo to civilians as long as its not considered AP by the ATF, and the ATFs rules pretty much define AP based on if it can be used in a handgun.



Is a SOT license really needed to make bullets? i mean you can cast your own with no restrictions, my uncle used to make his own .45 bullets to shoot steel targets with, im sure he didnt have a SOT but then again maybe its ok since its for personal use and hes not selling them like a business. If thats the case i guess i need to learn how to machine tungsten rods down to .30 bullets haha

People who have big bore cannons with hard to find calibers will have machine shops machine their bullets, usually made of steel but i dont think they need a license to do so, i need to verify this though.

EDIT: Found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License

Type 6
Licensed manufacturer of ammunition and reloading components other than ammunition for destructive devices and armor piercing ammunition.

TYPE 10
Manufacturer of firearms, ammunition and ammunition components, manufacturer of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices, and armor piercing ammunition; may also deal in all of the aforementioned items. Requires payment as an SOT Class 2 (can act as an NFA Dealer). To manufacture any DD with an explosives content (e.g. flash-bangs) requires an additional FEL[1] as a Type 20 Manufacturer of High Explosives.

But the big questions is does that .30 tungsten perpetrator count as armor piercing ammo/components? By the ATFs definition i would say no.

But even if it wasent considered AP i would still need to find a machine shop with a Type 6

Hmm yeah im starting to understand why those rounds are so expensive, despite the fact that they could easily be machine at a fraction of the cost.

Actually its Tungsten Semi carbide, W2C,   Not  normal tungsten carbide, WC.    


The regular tungsten carbide is to brittle as it is combined with ceramics, or cermetal.    Both are in powder form and compressed into shape under lots of pressure.
Tungsten semi carbide has twice the amount of tungsten.

European ammo makers  (at least NAMMO) are starting to use nickel iron binders instead of ceramics, only due to cost.
Penetration into High hardness Steel (todays modern ceramic armor) is still better with the ceramics esp. at high velocities, like SLAP's.

Sometimes they sell just tungsten cores on Gunbroker.

wolfgang

thanks for all the awesome info!

yeah i have seen loaded SLAP as well as just the perpetrator part from time to time but they are pricy. I know of a few websites that sell them but at outrageous prices, like $50-75 a round, when the main component cost which is the tungsten perpetrator can be produced for around $5 or less depending on the quantity you buy and the exact metal compositions, and machining method used, etc.

Fixed supply and high demand.

Just Have them make you a few thousand fishing weights.

Or sling shot ammo, Do you need a FFL to make sling shot ammo?

Barnes Bullets Update...http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Barnes-Customer-Update-Banded-Solids-2012.pdf


More specific info , including the Original ATF letter....http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1269993_BATFE_ordered_Barnes_Bullets_to_stop_producing_Solids_in__458_or_smaller_.html

Final ruling....http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/12/10/atf-ruling-on-sporting-purposes-exemption-to-armor-piercing-ammunition/

Well the SLAP round certainly meets the requirements of being made of tungsten, but since its not designed to be shot in a handgun i guess it not considered AP? If thats the case i just need to find a machine shop with Type 6 FFL and i should be gtg. Will need to shoot a letter off to ATF i guess.