I'm new to this forum, and this is my first post.

We keep an M&P15 for our "ranch house gun," along with a stack of 30-round mags, and I have a couple of boxes of 55 gr. .223 Hornady V-Max ammo handy.  This is more than adequate for the occasional varmint, 'yote, etc. I might need it for around here.  However, it's commonly stated that this round will crater upon hitting a dense bone, instead of penetrating and causing internal damage.  I've been contemplating the effectiveness of this round when firing at human target's COM.  We're talking about close range, 3240 fps MV.  Nasty in any case, but would it crater upon hitting, say, a rib?  What about the sternum?  Would it penetrate the sternum and enter the chest cavity?

Guy here used it on a dog and got poor results.

Link to v-max results.

Bad guy puts an arm out or has thicker then average clothing and your not gonna stop him if he's determined. Some people say "if he's on drugs" and acknowledge that would play in. I'm here to tell you anyone doing anything that would warrant you shooting them probably has enough adrenalin pumping that it gets the same effect.

Buy some bonded soft points or tsx and rest easy.  Why screw around when you are worried about your safety.

In the previous thread linked I have photos of using a 50gr vmax on page three.  

I get NO EXIT holes using vmax on jackrabbits... That tells me there is no "bullet" left after only 4" of thin tissue.  I can almost guarantee there won't be anything left to penetrate a rib or sternum.  It might break from the hydrostatic shock, but you won't be getting lead through and through.

Because I don't operate in a Military free fire zone, I can't just enter a home a spray rounds everywhere.

When I pull the trigger I HAVE target identification. AND, I use Mozambique Drill with my Carbine the same as I do with my sidearm.

Drywall penetration is a major concern.

I understand and agree exactly with what you're saying.  It's just that we have it loaded with this ammo for varmints, and if the one in a million chance that we have to use it on a human, I'm trying to get a better picture of its possible effectiveness.  I'm concerned that a bullet big enough to blow through a human (with heavy coat, arm raised, etc.) would zip through a fox or coyote without putting it down.  Whatever we keep in the gun for nuisance varmints is what we'd have to use for human varmints.

When did anyone say anything about spraying up the place?
Or that you didn't need to id a target?

Over penetration you say?
"Most of the time the .223/5.56 mm barrier blind bullets are staying in the felons...when they do exit, the projectiles generally are non-aerodynamic in shape and traveling fairly slowly, so they tend to bounce off nearby walls."  The Dentist

So when you are Mozambiqueing your target, overpenetration isn't going to be a problem.

But what if your threat decides to use a little cover?
"I am aware of a couple LE entry situations the last several years where fragmenting .223 projectiles failed to incapacitate suspects who were behind walls, furniture, and other cover while shooting at LE officers."
Vmax isn't gonna make it through and will prolong the fight and they may be spraying up the place.

Got your pistol loaded up with some Glasers for the drywall as well?

Bare gel:


Wall Board:


The 55gr Vmax will certainly most certainly put down an attacker.  It will be less effective if it has to punch through any kind of cover they might decide to duck behind including interior walls and furniture or if the round has to punch through an arm or some other obstruction.  Keep shooting until your safe

But was this from a 16" AR .223, or a faster load like a 22-250 varmint rifle?  I've read that many of the "cratering" results come from the latter.

It was from an Ar at about 75yrds for hte first shot, and 50 for the second.  I too imagine the higher velocity will cause it to fragment quicker/more violently...

Okay, you can hash this back and forth for the next two weeks, or you can SOLVE IT right now. Simply fit a  Redi-Mag to your rifle (costs mo money) or buy a mag coupler (less mo money). Put a mag full of your varmint load in one mag, and mag full of HD ammo in the other mag. Nuff said.

IF it did... it won't be the norm.

That is why it is not recommended, because of its narrow realistic use , and specific performance.

There are far better designed bullets for SD. Ones that can take hitting a bone and still perform well. IMHO, I think even the 55gr FMJ hitting a bone would cause more internal "injury" then a 55gr V-Max. ( NOT trying to stir up a FMJ bullet argument , just saying that a FMJ will be less likely to crater after impacting a bone.. )

While the V-Max would certainly ruin someone's day... it really only shines when a direct hit, ( line of sight ) is available.

I would not want to be hit by either bullet, but I do believe that the V-Max type bullets a too fragile for the variety of barriers that can be found in a SD scenario.

Frankly the type of wound caused by the V-Max could very well be "shrugged" off by a crazy or "coked" up person... while one that has broken bones or more disastrous is not as easy to ignore.


Just my 2 cents on the question.

Please read the FAQs, including the "Best choices for self-defense ammo" thread.