Defensive ammo critique - Page 1

AR-15 » Ammunition

AR Sponsor:

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Defensive ammo critique

Posted: 7/12/2014 9:59:46 AM EDT

Above is all of my 5.56/.223 ammo for defensive purposes (shtf, or whatever).

10 DSG USGI mags loaded with Freedom Munitions 60g VMAX
10 DSG USGI mags loaded with XM855
4 G2 Window PMAGS loaded with XM855
2 Lancer AWM loaded with Speer Gold Dot LE 5.56 55g
3 Lancer AWM loaded with XM856 tracers
4 G2 Window PMAGS loaded with mk318 mod 0 (in the plate carrier's pouches)
1 ASC stainless 43rd magazine loaded with Speer Gold Dot LE 5.56 55g

What do you guys think? Good load-out, or needs some work? I have several AR's so the mags would be split among them and distributed to family members. I know the VMAX is a bit short in the penetration, but I figured a split between them and the XM855 would be a good match up.

Posted: 7/12/2014 10:15:53 AM EDT

[#1]

I would simplify that. I would get rid of the v-max and tracers. You already have a defensive round in mk318 and the gold dot. I wouldn't differentiate the gold dot and mk318 either just keep them in the same place they are meant to do the same thing. Use the m855 for training. I would throw some 77gr in their for distance depending on what distances you shoot at. If you live in an urban area there's really no reason for it.
Edit: And take those top things off the pmags... Especially if those are the ones you keep in your carrier.

Posted: 7/12/2014 12:45:57 PM EDT

[#2]

I agree with getting rid of the Vmax, unless you will be hunting ground hogs. 6 inches of penetration is not enough. Also agree that you don't need the tracers.

I would get down to 2 loads for defense. Go to self defense (MK318/gold dots) and bulk (M855) for long term SHTF.

Otherwise, you have volume covered.

Posted: 7/12/2014 12:54:37 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
I agree with getting rid of the Vmax, unless you will be hunting ground hogs. 6 inches of penetration is not enough. Also agree that you don't need the tracers.

I would get down to 2 loads for defense. Go to self defense (MK318/gold dots) and bulk (M855) for long term SHTF.

Otherwise, you have volume covered.

View Quote

I also agree with this.

Posted: 7/13/2014 9:03:22 AM EDT

[#4]

I keep 3 types of bulk ammo

M193 - Its great practice milspec ammo at an affordable price
M855 - I keep this around for extended SHTF, be it shooting or bartering, also nice to buy low and sell high during ammo panics, for some reason people LOVE this ammo and will always overpay for it, people must think "perpetrator" means its armor piercing
MK318 - This barrier blind round is designed for short barreled rifles and has better terminal performance than M855, but is hard to find and expensive so am limited to just a few mags.

Posted: 7/13/2014 11:41:31 AM EDT

[#5]

Ditch the 43 round mag.

I'd rather have two 20's than one that big. Yeah, it sounds like a great thing to have until you actually have to do something worthwhile like go prone.

Posted: 7/13/2014 3:59:20 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
I agree with getting rid of the Vmax, unless you will be hunting ground hogs. 6 inches of penetration is not enough. Also agree that you don't need the tracers.

I would get down to 2 loads for defense. Go to self defense (MK318/gold dots) and bulk (M855) for long term SHTF.

Otherwise, you have volume covered.

View Quote

This

Posted: 7/13/2014 4:30:08 PM EDT

[#7]

Despite what the masses believe, military loads are not optimal SD loads. The military uses ammo that follows certain international laws for conducting war. You're better off with soft points.
*edit*
The mk318 is a different animal than the standard 193/855 fmj. They are more closely related to modern hunting rounds.

Posted: 7/13/2014 5:13:59 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Despite what the masses believe, military loads are not optimal SD loads. The military uses ammo that follows certain international laws for conducting war. You're better off with soft points.
*edit*
The mk318 is a different animal than the standard 193/855 fmj. They are more closely related to modern hunting rounds.

View Quote

The 855 and 193 however make great training rounds and for general plinking around.

Posted: 7/13/2014 5:23:51 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I agree with getting rid of the Vmax, unless you will be hunting ground hogs. 6 inches of penetration is not enough. Also agree that you don't need the tracers.

I would get down to 2 loads for defense. Go to self defense (MK318/gold dots) and bulk (M855) for long term SHTF.

Otherwise, you have volume covered.

View Quote

Also, this.

Posted: 7/13/2014 5:27:46 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Despite what the masses believe, military loads are not optimal SD loads. The military uses ammo that follows certain international laws for conducting war. You're better off with soft points.
*edit*
The mk318 is a different animal than the standard 193/855 fmj. They are more closely related to modern hunting rounds.

View Quote

I agree 100%. There are a lot of better defensive rounds than m855 or M193. When you are stacking deep, it is much more affordable to stock up with bulk .mil surplus. For example, I have Hornady NATO 75gr TAP in mags ready to go. I have a few thousand of the bulk Fed 55gr FMJ for plinking, 3 gun, training, SHTF, etc.

Since he already has the m855, he might as well keep it for training, plinking and so on. I would keep all of it, I just would take some of the loads out of my go to stash.

Posted: 7/13/2014 6:18:22 PM EDT

[#11]

A bigger question is how are you planning on dealing with all those different POI versus you zero?

Posted: 7/14/2014 3:35:33 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
A bigger question is how are you planning on dealing with all those different POI versus you zero?

View Quote

I was thinking the same thing. Pick one and run with it. They all can, and will fail as whatever you carry is a compromise of some sort. I'd rather be able to hit anything I can see without trying to remember the holdover for whatever mag I just shoved in the well.

Posted: 7/14/2014 4:19:03 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
A bigger question is how are you planning on dealing with all those different POI versus you zero?

View Quote

Another reason to reduce the variety.

In 3 gun, i zero at 200 yards with 77 gr match for longer stages. For the stages with closer, within 100 yards, i shoot 55gr FMJ bulk. POI is well within the vitals on close targets. Even with the same ammo being zero'd, you still have a hold over from 0 to 50ish yards.

Posted: 7/14/2014 5:31:25 AM EDT

[#14]

What is your rationale for having tracers?

I've bought them for messing around with, but never seen them in someones serious ammo dump. Just wondering

Posted: 7/14/2014 7:06:39 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
What is your rationale for having tracers?

I've bought them for messing around with, but never seen them in someones serious ammo dump. Just wondering

View Quote

yeah me either, i just goof around with friends who have never seen tracers before they always think its really cool. In the mil they use tracers to direct fire, i suppose you could use it for that but in SHTF i wouldnt think you would be doing much shooting as a unit, plus giving your position away is never a good idea.

Posted: 7/15/2014 1:25:27 PM EDT

[#16]

1776freedom,

My concern with so many different ammo natures is do they shoot to the same point of aim???

In both my AR's the Mk318 shoots high and left of anything else.

Fusion, which shold be similar to GD, overlaps pretty close with 75 grain and M855, but not exactly.

Even diffferent brands of M855 will show slightly different point of impact in an accurate rifle. (PMC green tip is 1-2 inches left of my IMI green tip).

Posted: 7/15/2014 2:12:17 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
1776freedom,

My concern with so many different ammo natures is do they shoot to the same point of aim???

In both my AR's the Mk318 shoots high and left of anything else.

Fusion, which shold be similar to GD, overlaps pretty close with 75 grain and M855, but not exactly.

Even diffferent brands of M855 will show slightly different point of impact in an accurate rifle. (PMC green tip is 1-2 inches left of my IMI green tip).

View Quote

My first thought. You only need two good ones.

Posted: 7/16/2014 5:33:40 AM EDT

[#18]

Practice ammo is just that. Don't include it in your shtf or defense load out kit. You need lots of soft point (like Gold Dot) or monolithic expanding (Barnes TSX) ammo. All you can afford, all shooting to the same point of impact. Use practice ammo only as a last resort, stored in bulk, not in your magazines, if you completely run our of the good expanding barrier blind stuff.

If you need ammo to take game for survival food, 22LR and shotgun ammo is better than wasting your rifle defensive loads.

Posted: 7/17/2014 10:52:41 AM EDT

[#19]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

The reason I bought the vmax 60g is that it was around 40 cents per round with free shipping. I know it's penetration is lacking, but it should perform like this:
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/223-remington/60-gr-tap-urban which has 9.75" of penetration in ballistics gel. I realize it's not optimal, but it's still probably better than xm193 or xm855.

The tracers I bought several years ago, loaded them in mags for the hell of it I guess. Maybe it would be useful for spotting, I dunno.

I live in an urban area, POI differences probably won't be very large, this is all probably under 50 meters.

Posted: 7/17/2014 5:30:30 PM EDT

[#20]

Over thinking.

If you need more then the mk318, shit is SO bad that you'll be happy to just have rounds. The minimal poi shift isn't a deal breaker for most defensive ranges if you've already shot 200 rounds :p

Still, I would settle on one WEIGHT of round.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:30:54 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
I agree with getting rid of the Vmax, unless you will be hunting ground hogs. 6 inches of penetration is not enough. Also agree that you don't need the tracers.

I would get down to 2 loads for defense. Go to self defense (MK318/gold dots) and bulk (M855) for long term SHTF.

Otherwise, you have volume covered.

View Quote

Agreed. I had your mentality, now have SP for HD and MK318 for bug out/ SHTF, and the rest is training ammo.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Defensive ammo critique

AR-15 » Ammunition

AR Sponsor:

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us