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Posted: 4/2/2014 9:04:44 PM EDT
[#1]
22lr is my 12 cents worth.......
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Posted: 4/2/2014 9:15:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Hey, I'm trying to find a good "all-around" bullet for target shooting, hunting, and defense. I realize that no bullet is going to do anything of these things great, but I like to consolidate things. The only caveat is that I'd like the bullet to be 12 cents or less. Is this even possible, or am I trying to have my cake and eat it too? Thanks! Are you talking about a component for reloading? There's no commercially loaded .223 ammo at .12 / rd. Hornady 55 gr SP might fit your budget and needs for reloading. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 9:36:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you talking about a component for reloading? There's no commercially loaded .223 ammo at .12 / rd. Hornady 55 gr SP might fit your budget and needs for reloading. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey, I'm trying to find a good "all-around" bullet for target shooting, hunting, and defense. I realize that no bullet is going to do anything of these things great, but I like to consolidate things. The only caveat is that I'd like the bullet to be 12 cents or less. Is this even possible, or am I trying to have my cake and eat it too? Thanks! Are you talking about a component for reloading? There's no commercially loaded .223 ammo at .12 / rd. Hornady 55 gr SP might fit your budget and needs for reloading. Yes--I should have been more clear--I'm talking in terms of reloading. I checked into the 55 grain soft points. Excellent price, but I'm concerned that they would offer quite inadequate penetration. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 9:58:18 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:12:58 PM EDT
[#5]
What you are hunting?
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:19:14 PM EDT
[#6]
WAY not enough info. What cartridge, what gun, what targets, what distances, mice or moose, need concealment or not, carry it on your person or not, how do you dress, the weather extremes where you are, do you travel, so much more. No way anyone can answer that without knowing more about your situation and needs.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:37:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Nothing to contribute other than a "13'er" comment? Don't post - Eric802
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:15:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WAY not enough info. What cartridge, what gun, what targets, what distances, mice or moose, need concealment or not, carry it on your person or not, how do you dress, the weather extremes where you are, do you travel, so much more. No way anyone can answer that without knowing more about your situation and needs. Yes, I should have been more specific. 1. 16" barrel w/1:7 twist 2. Distance - Up to 150 meters 3. Coyotes, hogs, and hopefully deer. 4. Some barrier penetration would be nice, but it's not necessary. 5. Weather here gets real hot and real cold. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:15:59 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What you are hunting? Coyotes, hogs, and hopefully deer. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:16:15 AM EDT
[#10]
You aren't going to find the bullet you want for .12 each. The only thing that's going to come close is the 55gr Hornady SP, and you're right - I'm not sure they'd have adequate penetration to be a reliable SD-round. However, they're probably as close as you're going to get in that price range.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:18:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Coyotes, hogs, and hopefully deer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What you are hunting? Coyotes, hogs, and hopefully deer. Deer? Forget the 55gr SP. You're outta luck, there is simply not a bullet in that price range that is adequate for what you're asking. You can have plinking and small varmint hunting with a 55gr SP, but if you're talking about deer you're wanting a TSX-type bullet or a heavier (62gr +) bonded soft point. And you're not getting those for anywhere near .12 each. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:19:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Forgot to quote
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:20:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Deer? Forget the 55gr SP. You're outta luck, there is simply not a bullet in that price range that is adequate for what you're asking. You can have plinking and small varmint hunting with a 55gr SP, but if you're talking about deer you're wanting a TSX-type bullet or a heavier (62gr +) bonded soft point. And you're not getting those for anywhere near .12 each. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What you are hunting? Coyotes, hogs, and hopefully deer. Deer? Forget the 55gr SP. You're outta luck, there is simply not a bullet in that price range that is adequate for what you're asking. You can have plinking and small varmint hunting with a 55gr SP, but if you're talking about deer you're wanting a TSX-type bullet or a heavier (62gr +) bonded soft point. And you're not getting those for anywhere near .12 each. I figured that might be the case. I've done a lot of research, but I thought I'd ask in here before I gave up on finding a one-size-fits-all round in that price range. What do you think about the m193? |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:21:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryThanks! My only concern with hornady is penetration. I've actually been looking into those m193s as well, but I've heard varying opinions in my research on whether 55 grains is suitable for 1:7 twists (over stabilization?). Incidentally, I heard they were great when the military had 1:12 twists. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:14:43 AM EDT
[#15]
M193 is a great general purpose round and will shoot fine out of a 1-7 twist barrel. Jack of all trades, master of none is the phrase that comes to mind with this round. However, it is not legal in most states to hunt deer with. I have read many reports of people successfully hunting deer with it though, so if it is legal you may want to consider it.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:45:50 AM EDT
[#16]
193 would not be a good hunting round. You want to stick to SP or some other tip that lends itself to expansion. The reason military uses FMJ is not because it's the ultimate round.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:50:04 AM EDT
[#17]
$0.12? yeah that pretty much limits you to .22 LR
More realistically if you running a Ar15, m193 or and 55 gr fmj is good plinking ammo, hornady tap for self defense in a home,mk318 for SHTF ammo |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:30:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! My only concern with hornady is penetration. I've actually been looking into those m193s as well, but I've heard varying opinions in my research on whether 55 grains is suitable for 1:7 twists (over stabilization?). Incidentally, I heard they were great when the military had 1:12 twists. Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! My only concern with hornady is penetration. I've actually been looking into those m193s as well, but I've heard varying opinions in my research on whether 55 grains is suitable for 1:7 twists (over stabilization?). Incidentally, I heard they were great when the military had 1:12 twists. My 1/7 twist 18" SS ADCO SPR barrel loves some 55gr V-max. Best group to date (only a 3 shot) was .30" center to center at 100 yards. My buddy's best groups to date are with 52gr Sierras. So, I don't think that's a problem. ETA: OP, when you are saying $.12, are you talking just the projectiles? That's about all you'll get for that price. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 1:59:23 PM EDT
[#19]
I killed a deer last season with the factory Hornady 55gr SP. Double lung shot. Ran about 20yrds and dropped. I didn't get a complete pass through. The expanded bullet was about .3in in diameter buried under the skin of the opposing shoulder. Would I do it again? No. I won't use the .223/5.56 for deer again unless I was confident I had a clear head/CNS shot.
I do use the factory Hornady 55gr SP for hog hunting though, with good results as well. I only take head/CNS shots though. It would be a great round on coyotes. I have also found it to be very accurate as well. I was sighting in my 16" upper with PA 1-4 scope for this ammo at 50yrds, and I was getting very tight ragged hole groups. Granted it was at only at 50yrds but it still counts for something. ETA: If I had to recommend one "do it all" round it would be the Speer 64gr Bonded SP and if you can't find that the Federal Fusion 62gr bonded SP. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:02:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Hey, I'm trying to find a good "all-around" bullet for target shooting, hunting, and defense. I realize that no bullet is going to do anything of these things great, but I like to consolidate things. The only caveat is that I'd like the bullet to be 12 cents or less. Is this even possible, or am I trying to have my cake and eat it too? Thanks! ETA: My question pertains to bullets for reloading. http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/223-62-Grain-Federal-Fusion-Soft-Points-PULLED-1000-Count-223-62-FFSP-Pul-1000-Ct.htm That bullet will cover the hunting / defense portion.... but.. trying to get all three is very tough to do cheaply.....accuracy is completely going to be up to you and your rifle. BTW ... now that the bullet is out of the proverbial bag.... that won't last long.... it is a very good bullet. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:56:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW ... now that the bullet is out of the proverbial bag.... that won't last long.... it is a very good bullet. Agreed. It's been one of my favorites for a while now. As others have said its going to be hard to find one round to do it all. And Bfoosh mentioned the accuracy depends on partly on rifle and partly on you. Different barrels like different ammo. Whenever you see an accuracy test its best to take it with a grain of salt. Just because this gun is getting sub MOA groups at 500yds with this bullet doesn't your gun will. Real accurate load development requires a lot of testing. Comparing 23 grains of powder vs 22, chronographing the loads, ect. But that can be the difference between sub MOA and 3MOA groups look at Molon's testing of the 70 grain TSX for example. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/468247_.html So really it will be hard for someone to say this will be the most accurate on target and the best hunting/HD load. My advice would be to test several bullets and load combinations and see what your gun shoots best. For bullets I would look at the TSX, Fusion, Sierra Game King (NOT Match King!), Nosler Partition, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Power Point, or something else that doesn't fragment or explode. For hunting you want good penetration, high retained weight, and maximum expansion. And since you're reloading anyway, you're better off just making a hunting load and a target load. For 100yrd accuracy look at the v-max for beyond that the 77gr Sierra Match King. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 7:28:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Wow, you guys are awful fussy. Rifles are deadly.
Seen plenty of deer taken with a .22 long rifle when I was a kid. Seen black bears dropped on their chins by .222 Remington solids put together with a Lee Loader that fits in a shirt pocket. You get shot in the lungs or head with a rip snorting 5.56/.223 rifle and you are gonna die - same with the unfortunate deer that gets nailed. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 9:46:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, you guys are awful fussy. Rifles are deadly. Seen plenty of deer taken with a .22 long rifle when I was a kid. Seen black bears dropped on their chins by .222 Remington solids put together with a Lee Loader that fits in a shirt pocket. You get shot in the lungs or head with a rip snorting 5.56/.223 rifle and you are gonna die - same with the unfortunate deer that gets nailed. For a round that defends your family and needs to stop inside the bad guy/at the first wall after exiting rather than go through and through? Most of us think it pays to be fussy in this particular application. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 10:24:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, you guys are awful fussy. Rifles are deadly. Seen plenty of deer taken with a .22 long rifle when I was a kid. Seen black bears dropped on their chins by .222 Remington solids put together with a Lee Loader that fits in a shirt pocket. You get shot in the lungs or head with a rip snorting 5.56/.223 rifle and you are gonna die - same with the unfortunate deer that gets nailed. LOL.... you are quite right... but , none of those animals shot back while they are dying. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 6:13:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Nothing to contribute? Don't post - Eric802
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Posted: 4/7/2014 7:07:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Nobody has tossed this out, and you've not given us much to go on with perameters.
Pats reloading sold me take down ammo, pulled components put back together for SWEAR on THIS.....17 cents per round. These prices were good 2004. That was assembled good 30 cal carbine American components reassembled. It's shot great. LC '72 110 grain FMJ carbine ammo. It's the Carbine that's hard to find, and you you probably can't find take down for that price, but you can buy new LC ammo at around 40 cents per round. It good boom, and it will fill your requirements. It's a fun, serious, weapon to shoot. You'll love shooting them. Good luck....it's my go to room cleaner, puts meat on the table and is easy to pack. |
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Posted: 4/7/2014 8:44:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Thank you for all the responses. I guess I'm going to need two loads--one for plinking and for for hunting/defense.
I do have one last question that I was hoping to get answered here so I don't clutter the forum an additional thread. Based on Dr. Roberts ballistics studies, I have decided to buy some of the bonded JSPs for hunting/home defense. My only concern is that I recently read a thread in this forum that talked about the exposed lead of these rounds deteriorating over time due to oxidation. I would hate to have to one day use this ammo on an intruder only to find that the lead has decomposed and doesn't perform like it's supposed to. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks again for all the help. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 2:32:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you for all the responses. I guess I'm going to need two loads--one for plinking and for for hunting/defense. I do have one last question that I was hoping to get answered here so I don't clutter the forum an additional thread. Based on Dr. Roberts ballistics studies, I have decided to buy some of the bonded JSPs for hunting/home defense. My only concern is that I recently read a thread in this forum that talked about the exposed lead of these rounds deteriorating over time due to oxidation. I would hate to have to one day use this ammo on an intruder only to find that the lead has decomposed and doesn't perform like it's supposed to. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks again for all the help. If you read that thread, then you saw that it's a non-issue. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 4:52:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Ditto, Non-Issue.
Properly stored ammo can out last you and me. Think of all those lead fishing sinkers sitting in less then ideal conditions.... you lose more then you ever throw out. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 5:08:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you read that thread, then you saw that it's a non-issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thank you for all the responses. I guess I'm going to need two loads--one for plinking and for for hunting/defense. I do have one last question that I was hoping to get answered here so I don't clutter the forum an additional thread. Based on Dr. Roberts ballistics studies, I have decided to buy some of the bonded JSPs for hunting/home defense. My only concern is that I recently read a thread in this forum that talked about the exposed lead of these rounds deteriorating over time due to oxidation. I would hate to have to one day use this ammo on an intruder only to find that the lead has decomposed and doesn't perform like it's supposed to. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks again for all the help. If you read that thread, then you saw that it's a non-issue. I was wondering if anyone had any personal experience hunting or something. All those posts were based on conjecture and did not address whether exposed lead become brittle. |
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Posted: 4/12/2014 3:48:42 AM EDT
[#31]
I am going to follow this as i am new to the AR platform, have been shooting M193 55's just to get the brass and after it's gone plan on using a 69g Nosler CC with RL-15 unless someone has a better suggestion. It's going to be fired from a SP-15 with 16" bbl
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Posted: 4/12/2014 5:23:54 PM EDT
[#32]
If we could only get 62gr Fusions bullets w/cannelure......
 . Thats all you need inside 300yds for plinking, hunting and defense.
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Posted: 4/12/2014 10:03:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we could only get 62gr Fusions bullets w/cannelure...... . Thats all you need inside 300yds for plinking, hunting and defense.Ummm... that is what I linked to earlier in this thread... http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/223-62-Grain-Federal-Fusion-Soft-Points-PULLED-1000-Count-223-62-FFSP-Pul-1000-Ct.htm |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 1:53:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was wondering if anyone had any personal experience hunting or something. All those posts were based on conjecture and did not address whether exposed lead become brittle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thank you for all the responses. I guess I'm going to need two loads--one for plinking and for for hunting/defense. I do have one last question that I was hoping to get answered here so I don't clutter the forum an additional thread. Based on Dr. Roberts ballistics studies, I have decided to buy some of the bonded JSPs for hunting/home defense. My only concern is that I recently read a thread in this forum that talked about the exposed lead of these rounds deteriorating over time due to oxidation. I would hate to have to one day use this ammo on an intruder only to find that the lead has decomposed and doesn't perform like it's supposed to. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks again for all the help. If you read that thread, then you saw that it's a non-issue. I was wondering if anyone had any personal experience hunting or something. All those posts were based on conjecture and did not address whether exposed lead become brittle. I have worked with ammunition for more than 40 years and never seen lead 'decompose'. Because it is an element, lead can't be broken down into smaller components. Generally once it has a coating of oxidation over the exposed surface, the remaining lead is 'sealed', if you will, within that coating and to an extent protected from further oxidation. I have handled lead musket and pistol balls from the English Civil War. These things have been buried in the ground since 1651, and the lead has not become brittle. Any halfway decent storage conditions will reduce the chances of oxidation. I think if you manage to hang onto ammunition long enough for the lead to become brittle - that will be the least of your problems as the primers and/or propellant will long since have deteriorated. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 7:50:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Sometimes the best decision is compromise.
I like to keep a few mags of TSX loaded for self defense / hunting and a few thousand loose Cheap rounds for SHTF/plinking Performance comes at a price and my only likely use is self defense / hunting so I'll cater to those uses |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:08:23 PM EDT
[#36]
55 grain soft point has always worked well for me. not crazy expensive, accurate enough, and will expand.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 4:26:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Just one guy's opinion:
Look around on the web for Sierra or Nosler 77gr blems. In bulk they should come in a bit more than you want to spend ($0.14/per) but will do everything you want them to do. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 5:56:20 AM EDT
[#38]
I still think the m193 that the 5.56 was designed as is the best all around bullet.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:14:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still think the m193 that the 5.56 was designed as is the best all around bullet. The 55gr FMJ used in M193 has its advantages. It is certainly cheap, and practice leads to better shot placement which is really the most important thing. It also works in practically any rifle since twist rate won't be an issue. It is somewhat inconsistent when it comes to wounding. It is highly velocity dependent, requiring IIRC around 2600fps to fragment. Not hard at close range with a 20" barrel but you have to be aware of the limitations, particularly with shorter barrels. Even though M193 is light and fragments, it does tend to penetrate adequately. When it fragments it can work quite well but when it doesn't it can perform fairly poorly. I think M193 is a great choice for training and for building the SHTF ammo fort, but I wouldn't use it for self defense or hunting if given a choice. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:20:52 AM EDT
[#40]
There are fewer .224 bullets that are a worse choice for hunting medium-sized game than a 55gr FMJBT.
Sure they're plenty effective for a headshot, and a lot of folks don't care how many FMJs they have to pump into hogs...but for fark's sake, use a bullet that works more optimally for your intended uses given your weapon's performance limitations... |
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