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8/29/2014 9:08:28 PM
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BrewerJA
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Posted: 11/6/2013 8:56:49 PM
[Last Edit: 11/6/2013 9:00:11 PM by BrewerJA]
Anybody know anything, good or bad about this stuff? ATI Scorpion high velocity 40gr lead round nose 22lr stuff? I saw a deal on PSA ATI SCORPION about an hour ago, and given the availability of rimfire, i bought 4 boxes of 500rds. Total of 2,000rds for $160, so a hair over 8cents a pop after shipping. Im just plinking with it but, hopefully it runs well in my 22lr conversion kit and in my dedicated CMMG upper :)
I guess it wpuld be my civic duty to report back on function, consistancy and accuracy of this stuff. I will update you all with a range report once i get the stuff.
At this price, and availibility, i have my doubts on consistancy and accuracy but if it even comes close to my CCI round nose 40gr stuff, i will be delighted!!!
Thanks for the read fellas. Will report back soon.
Break'n necks, and cash'n checks.
ColonelHurtz
Horror and moral terror are your friends.
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Posted: 11/6/2013 9:30:05 PM
Sold out all ready!
"If people insist on photoshops that have nothing to do with anything but racial stereotypes - like Obama dressed like a pimp, eating watermelon and asking where the white wimmenz are at - then that thread will be locked too."
DK-Prof
usmcmoose90
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Posted: 12/18/2013 1:42:08 AM
Just bought some of this. I will post with a review after I've ran some through my custom Ruger 10/22.
usmcmoose90
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Posted: 1/21/2014 2:18:51 AM
Well, I just shot this stuff today for the first time and I've got one word...CRAP! Absolute Grade A CRAP!!! First and foremost, the best part...This stuff stove piped and failed to feed 4 to 6 times on every 10 Rd magazine I loaded. I shoot a Ruger 10/22, tricked with a PROMAG Archangle Nomad stock and a Bull Barrel (Can't remember the manufacturer cause I've had it for bout 20 years now). I would say isolated issue accept my friend has been shooting the same stuff from his M&P15-22 AR type and he has the same issues. Now the BAD part...After about 150 rds or so one of the primers exploded on me and just about caused me to dirty my 5.11 Taclite Pants. I immediately stopped what I was doing, dropped the mag, locked the bolt back and discovered the blown shell still in the chamber. I extracted the shell (Pics to follow), checked the bolt face and outside of the barrel, and decided to test fire some more rounds since I didn't see any damage. I fired about 30 more rounds with no issues, packed my stuff and came home. Oh, it gets worse from here...As I began to disassemble my rifle to clean it I discovered the real damage...My bull barrel has a carbon fiber surround (at least I think its carbon fiber...again, 20 yrs ago). About an inch back from the muzzle the surround is cracked all the way around the barrel (See pics). Needless to say I am pissed! this was a $250 barrel when purchased. Very accurate and never had issues this whole time. Now its junk thanks to crappy ammo...Well, lesson learned...Do not buy this crap no matter how desperate you are during this 22LR shortage.

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_zpsbe1cc495.jpg

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_1_zps0aa77001.jpg

The Blown Casing

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_2_zps868a6a4c.jpg

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_3_zpsf7e9283a.jpg

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_4_zpsdc1637db.jpg

The Cracked Barrel

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_5_zps96fce446.jpg

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_6_zps7e345c8d.jpg

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_7_zpsd1a6eeb9.jpg

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/usmcmoose90/22LR%20Scorpion%20Pics/photo_8_zps53196daa.jpg
9mmmac
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Posted: 1/21/2014 10:03:27 AM
O snap! Thanks for the heads up. How in the world did you get a barrel failure like that? Can maybe it be salvaged by sending it back to the mfgr and getting it re-wrapped? Sorry to see that happen to you, man...
Eric802
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:07:56 AM
Wow. I don't know how the ammo could've done that unless you had a squib that the next round pushed out of the barrel after bulging it.
RIP, Jeff.
RBS-reaper13
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:35:47 AM
That sucks. But I am wondering how you did not notice that amount of damage at the range? I can only see that happening with a squib.
uniquesnd
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:43:10 AM
Squib for sure
"I am not an Operator but I play one on AR15.com"
usmcmoose90
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Posted: 1/21/2014 1:45:02 PM
I think you guys are right on the squib...After giving it much thought...I think the barrel was just fine after the initial primer blow. I inspected it pretty good (minus the bore) and would have noticed those cracks. I finally remembered noticing that the first round I fired after the initial blow sounded different. I just chalked it up as another bad round though due to the day's reputation on the ammo. I continued to fire another 29 or so rounds before I packed and went home. I should have inspected everything. This was my first squib (I didn't even know what squib meant until last night) so I've learned a costly lesson.
BrewerJA
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:58:23 PM
sorry to hear about your problems dude, i went to the range this passed weekend and fired off a few hundred of these scorpions. they shoot almost as my CCI standard vel stuff. this is my new go to ammo. im shooting nickle sized or smaller 10 shot groups at 40yds with my CMMG 20" upper and they feed perfectly through my blackdog mags. i have no complaints thus far, ALWAYS watch out for squibbs man, in larger calibers, they can kill you dude.
Break'n necks, and cash'n checks.
usmcmoose90
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Posted: 1/22/2014 12:55:30 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By BrewerJA:
sorry to hear about your problems dude, i went to the range this passed weekend and fired off a few hundred of these scorpions. they shoot almost as my CCI standard vel stuff. this is my new go to ammo. im shooting nickle sized or smaller 10 shot groups at 40yds with my CMMG 20" upper and they feed perfectly through my blackdog mags. i have no complaints thus far, ALWAYS watch out for squibbs man, in larger calibers, they can kill you dude.


Wow...Maybe my friend and I got a bad batch...The store we bought it from had 5 boxes and they went quick...Glad to hear they work well for you.
usmcmoose90
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Posted: 1/24/2014 5:39:51 PM
Well Folks,

As I've mentioned, I sent messages to both ATI and ARMSCOR about this issue and both have responded. I must say that these people did not attend the same customer service class. I will post ARMSCOR's response seperately...Notice the stark difference...Amazing!

ATI's 1st Reply:

"Jessie ,

Ammunition would not be at fault for the stove piping or the other concerns. What is your phone number so that we may have a informed representative contact you.

Thanks,
Jaime Ramos
American Tactical Imports"


My Reply

"Hello Jaime,

Thank you for responding. I've been shooting long enough to know that stove pipes CAN be caused by mechanical failures (Bad extractor, etc.) in the firearm as well as operator error ("limp wristing" with hand guns...As I was shooting a rifle, this was not an issue)...I am also aware that poorly manufactured ammunition CAN be the cause as well. The question in my case is what exactly was the issue? I don't have a laboratory or a controlled environment where I can effectively test this...I only have my experience and that of my friend's to help me come to a conclusion (right or wrong)...If the stove pipes were isolated to just me and my particular rifle (Ruger 10/22...Reputation precedes) I would have been more suspicious of the rifle itself. Two factors diminished my suspicions of the rifle...1. My friend was experiencing the same exact problem with his BRAND NEW Smith & Wesson M&P15-22 (AR Style), not only on this particular shoot but also on a previous shoot (without me being there)...This was my first time shooting this ammo...2. I loaded a magazine with some 20+ year old Federal (cheap bulk box stuff) and it shot flawlessly as ALWAYS, followed by experiencing the same issues with the Scorpion. When I shot this rifle previous to this day I finished off a cheap bulk box of 20+ year old Remington with NO issues...Again, I am fully aware that there is a REMOTE possibility that BOTH rifles could be malfunctioning (not plausible in my experienced and "informed" opinion though)...Finally, the eventual "Case Head Separation" (See Pics) that took place after about 150 rds (40% to 60% of which were stove pipes) is an ABSOLUTE indication of BAD ammunition. In retrospect, I have come to the realization and understanding that the case head separation didn't allow for enough pressure to send the bullet out of the barrel (Squib Round). The next round fired subsequently made contact with the lodged bullet and caused the damage to my barrel (See Pics)...Luckily not to me...

Without knowing all of the facts and actually being present during the shoot, I find it absolutely staggering that you would immediately dismiss the possibility that the ammo in question here was at fault...Is this how you were taught customer service? Also, to infer that I am not an "informed" individual by offering to have an "...informed representative contact..." me is insulting at best. If this was not your intention please clarify. What's even more disturbing about your response is that the potential exists for a bad (and DANGEROUS) lot of Scorpion ammo "on the loose" (very possibly in the hands of children learning how to shoot....22LR is popular for this) and you are so quick to dismiss this possibility...Ever heard of a lawsuit? I'm sure your boss has...Which by the way, I would be more than happy to discuss this with him/her if he/she is the "informed" person you referred to. My phone number is 619-717-1659. And before you spout off that this ammo is not designed for "Semi-Auto" firearms (as some manufacturers state) and I should have known better, please note that this disclaimer is nowhere stamped on the box...

Please let me know how we can resolve this issue ASAP...The firearms community on several forums including YouTube are anxiously waiting for an update on your response to my initial inquiry...I would hate for this first exchange to be my review...

Respectfully,
Jesse Collins
USMC Veteran, Shooter, & Hunter"


ATI's 2nd Reply

"Jessie ,

Let me begin by saying thank you for your information, we are not concerned with your background or knowledge at this time . We must follow standard operating procedure on every email that is sent to us as to get a resolution as fast as possible. Thank you for your phone number , we will have someone contact you to get the ammunition back to us and inspected as soon as possible . Please bear in mind that the individual calling is to set up the return only and will not be interested in the information you have already provided us, they will gladly listen and take notes but will have no final say in determining the resolution. We are sorry that this has happened and need to inspect the product before determining any resolution but we assure you we will get this done in a timely fashion. Your email is the first case of this happening and being brought to our attention, so the concern is mutual.

Thanks,
Jaime Ramos
American Tactical Imports"


My 2nd Reply

"Based on both of your replies to my inquiry, I do not trust that your resolution determination will be fair or even honest. First impressions are very important and just as my first impression of this ammo was terrible, so is my first impression of your customer service, which you have made no attempt to improve upon. Especially compared to the first response I received from ARMSCOR (the manufacturer of this ammo according to the box), see quote, sent yesterday at 1PM:

"ARMSCOR's reply (CGers...See Seperate Post)"

Might I suggest that you take note of what real customer service is like and make some revision to your SOP to accommodate. Rest assured, your responses will be posted on the forums that I already mentioned. People need to be aware of how poorly you deal with customers so they know to stay away from your products.

Respectfully,
Jesse Collins
USMC...Oh yeah...You're not interested..."


ATIs 3rd Reply

"Jessie,
Thank you. If you would still like to be contacted so that we may inspect the ammunition we have gladly extended our services, we patiently wait a response that will help the situation."


Some may think I'm being sensitive until you see ARMSCOR's response...
usmcmoose90
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Posted: 1/24/2014 5:41:28 PM
So here is ARMSCOR's reply...Hopefully they will actually be able to come through...Either way, I'm impressed...

ARMSCOR's 1st Reply

"Hello Jesse,

Thanks for contacting us. I am very sorry to hear about these issues. We will refund the purchase of the ammunition and we can setup a shipping label for the remaining ammunition and the damaged rifle for repair or replacement with receipts. What is your mailing address and the serial number of the firearm? Pictures would be very helpful.

Ryan Crotty
Customer Service Associate
Armscor Precision Intl | Rock Island Armory"

My Reply

"Hello Ryan,

Thank you for getting back to me. My mailing address is:

Blah
Blah
Blah

As far as the rifle goes, it is a Ruger 10/22 that my father bought me 20+ years ago...Do you still want the S/N? The action of the rifle was not damaged, but the barrel was. The barrel is also 20+ years old and is an after market upgrade, .920 Graphite Bull Barrel made by Magnum Research (see link), of which I do not have a receipt.

LINK

I've also attached pictures of the damage.

If you are willing to replace the barrel for me, would it be possible to receive a replacement from a different manufacturer at a lower cost then the $270 listed for the Magnum Research Barrel? If so, I've looked at the Tactical Solutions X Ring Barrel listed at $198 (See Link)

LINK"


ARMSCOR's 2nd Reply

"Hey Jesse,

I will need to run this by my supervisor for such a custom and older model firearm, I will have him copied in this email and await his direction.

Ryan Crotty
Customer Service Associate
Armscor Precision Intl | Rock Island Armory"


Still waiting on Ivan's reply...Either way, these folks have good CS IMO...
fr3d
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Posted: 1/25/2014 7:29:51 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By usmcmoose90:
Several very informative posts


I really hope they make this right. I was tempted to order some, but held off because I am not desperate for .22lr and questioned the origins of this product. I fail to see how it could have been anything other than an ammo issue.
Eric802
It's not the years, it's the miles...
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Posted: 1/26/2014 10:40:54 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By usmcmoose90:
Well Folks,

*snip*

Some may think I'm being sensitive until you see ARMSCOR's response...


Yeah, you're being sensitive.
RIP, Jeff.
usmcmoose90
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Posted: 1/27/2014 3:32:23 PM
Well Folks,

Looks like ARMSCOR has made a final decision:

"Hey Jesse,

What we need to do is you can purchase either of the barrels you listed, then return your damaged barrel along with a receipt for the new replacement barrel and a receipt for the ammunition and we will send a refund check out."


I have to say this is the finest CS I've ever experienced...