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Erebos
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Posted: 6/23/2012 2:40:58 AM
Does anyone know more about these than what's in the description? Are these supposed to be "barrier blind" projectiles?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/326584/winchester-bullets-556mm-224-diameter-62-grain-open-tip-match-box-of-500-bulk-packaged
JarHeadTim
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Posted: 6/23/2012 10:20:50 AM
Wondering the same thing... Anyone?
Hater
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Posted: 6/23/2012 11:54:50 AM
[Last Edit: 6/23/2012 11:55:32 AM by Hater]
Yes, they are barrier blind. My question is that, in the descriptioin, they say these are for the "FBI training round." In my experience, the FBI does have "Duty" ammo and "training" ammo. Training ammo is usually FMJ or some kind of environmentally "green" ammo for the ranges.

The barrier blind projectile seems more of the "duty" ammo type. Perhaps the description is wrong.

If I hadn't spent all my money, I'd be buying 500 minimum.
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dwhitehorne
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Posted: 6/23/2012 1:04:34 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/556289_Q3315_FBI_contract_62gr_training_ammo.html

Gone through about 35,000 rounds so far. The projectile really reminds me of the 50grain Federal value pack ammo that use to be around 5 or so years ago. The 62gr is actually more accurate than the 64gr Q3313 in my rifle. David
brandy12
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Posted: 6/23/2012 1:11:33 PM
It's just a hollow point. In the ar15 reloading section people seem to not like them. As for a blind barrier bullet they don't have a thick copper base so I would say they are not. The blind barrier bullets I have are almost all copper with very little lead in them.
JarHeadTim
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Posted: 6/23/2012 1:41:30 PM
Any idea if it flys like the Mk318 bullet?
robertmegar
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Posted: 6/23/2012 3:07:32 PM
Midway was selling the barrier "blind" but "practice " round a while back but turned out to be open tip bullets not bonded anything.

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Erebos
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Posted: 6/23/2012 4:25:52 PM
Great. Thanks for the answers, folks. I think I'm probably going to pass on these.
duke-nukem
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Posted: 6/23/2012 6:14:10 PM
I ll let everyone know next weekend .Ive placed my order for 500.
toki
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Posted: 6/23/2012 7:53:27 PM
Originally Posted By brandy12:
It's just a hollow point. In the ar15 reloading section people seem to not like them. As for a blind barrier bullet they don't have a thick copper base so I would say they are not. The blind barrier bullets I have are almost all copper with very little lead in them.


What?

Quoted directly from the Midway link....

Winchester's 62 Grain Open Tip Match bullet was designed as a barrier defeating bullet to be loaded in their FBI training round. This bullet delivers superior penetration and accuracy when loaded in the 5.56x45mm or 223 Remington cartridges as it features a thick copper base behind a solid lead core and unique open tip. MidwayUSA was able to purchase a very limited supply. Don't miss out on this great opportunity.


MRW
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Posted: 6/23/2012 8:07:55 PM

Originally Posted By toki:
Originally Posted By brandy12:
It's just a hollow point. In the ar15 reloading section people seem to not like them. As for a blind barrier bullet they don't have a thick copper base so I would say they are not. The blind barrier bullets I have are almost all copper with very little lead in them.


What?

Quoted directly from the Midway link....

Winchester's 62 Grain Open Tip Match bullet was designed as a barrier defeating bullet to be loaded in their FBI training round. This bullet delivers superior penetration and accuracy when loaded in the 5.56x45mm or 223 Remington cartridges as it features a thick copper base behind a solid lead core and unique open tip. MidwayUSA was able to purchase a very limited supply. Don't miss out on this great opportunity.



yes, but what is actually for sale is the PRACTICE bullet for that round, which means it matches ballistics, but perhaps not much else.

I'll pass
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45FMJoe
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Posted: 6/23/2012 8:10:32 PM

Originally Posted By Hater:
Yes, they are barrier blind. My question is that, in the descriptioin, they say these are for the "FBI training round." In my experience, the FBI does have "Duty" ammo and "training" ammo. Training ammo is usually FMJ or some kind of environmentally "green" ammo for the ranges.

The barrier blind projectile seems more of the "duty" ammo type. Perhaps the description is wrong.

If I hadn't spent all my money, I'd be buying 500 minimum.

Maybe they do it differently because they're DOJ and I'm DHS, but in our agency we train with our duty ammo.
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leatherface_y2k
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Posted: 6/23/2012 11:27:12 PM
I bought 7 boxes of this stuff, loaded ammo, a few months ago. ZQ3314 is what Winchester calls it. I've fired 40 rounds and it's just fine out of my Stag. Has a weird looking crimp at the neck but functions fine and does minute-of-torso at 100 yds firing while standing. Not sure where they get the "match" in the OTM from, but it's fine as loaded by Winchester. In my entire 40 rd shootin' at paper experience! lol
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JarHeadTim
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Posted: 6/24/2012 8:47:37 AM
Originally Posted By JarHeadTim:
Any idea if it flys like the Mk318 bullet?


Has anyone done any media testing with it? I'd be curious to see what it does in ballistic gel... Molon?

I'm looking for a cost effective alternative to shooting Mk318 for practice other than the 62 Gr FMJ which I have going the same speed and the POI isn't real bad, but I thought a OTM might be closer...


S/F
toki
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Posted: 6/24/2012 3:16:51 PM
Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By toki:
Originally Posted By brandy12:
It's just a hollow point. In the ar15 reloading section people seem to not like them. As for a blind barrier bullet they don't have a thick copper base so I would say they are not. The blind barrier bullets I have are almost all copper with very little lead in them.


What?

Quoted directly from the Midway link....

Winchester's 62 Grain Open Tip Match bullet was designed as a barrier defeating bullet to be loaded in their FBI training round. This bullet delivers superior penetration and accuracy when loaded in the 5.56x45mm or 223 Remington cartridges as it features a thick copper base behind a solid lead core and unique open tip. MidwayUSA was able to purchase a very limited supply. Don't miss out on this great opportunity.



yes, but what is actually for sale is the PRACTICE bullet for that round, which means it matches ballistics, but perhaps not much else.

I'll pass


Seriously, tell me how you come to that conclusion. The description clearly and explicitly states that it is a barrier blind bullet being sold. Unless you have some other verified information from Winchester saying that theses bullets are something other than what Midway has described, you are just making claims with no evidence.
brandy12
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Posted: 6/24/2012 4:48:39 PM
Originally Posted By toki:
Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By toki:
Originally Posted By brandy12:
It's just a hollow point. In the ar15 reloading section people seem to not like them. As for a blind barrier bullet they don't have a thick copper base so I would say they are not. The blind barrier bullets I have are almost all copper with very little lead in them.


What?

Quoted directly from the Midway link....

Winchester's 62 Grain Open Tip Match bullet was designed as a barrier defeating bullet to be loaded in their FBI training round. This bullet delivers superior penetration and accuracy when loaded in the 5.56x45mm or 223 Remington cartridges as it features a thick copper base behind a solid lead core and unique open tip. MidwayUSA was able to purchase a very limited supply. Don't miss out on this great opportunity.



yes, but what is actually for sale is the PRACTICE bullet for that round, which means it matches ballistics, but perhaps not much else.

I'll pass


Seriously, tell me how you come to that conclusion. The description clearly and explicitly states that it is a barrier blind bullet being sold. Unless you have some other verified information from Winchester saying that theses bullets are something other than what Midway has described, you are just making claims with no evidence.


It says barrier defeating not barrier blind bullet. You can say most bullets are barrier defeating. I shoot the MK 318 MOD 0, 62 grain as a barrier blind bullets. I don't believe that bullet is a barrier blind bullet but rather a hollow point with a thicker copper jacket like it says. It might go through some barriers better than other bullets but by no means is the same as a MK 318 MOD 0, 62 grain bullet.