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LittleTanRifle
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Posted: 8/16/2011 9:15:26 PM
I read through any reviews I could find, didn't see anything one either of the loads in question. I did actually look, though, so if I passed over them, I'm sorry.

Basically, I'm looking to get my rifle sighted in on whichever ammo I choose to go with, as well as build up a small surplus.

The rifle is a ground up build, barrel is a 16" Citadel carbine barrel, 1/9 twist. I really only shoot Federal 55 gr. bulk ammo through it right now, it's the cheapest I can get locally, and it performs great. I zeroed in last year, and when I actually had my (cheap) scope on, I could literally pick thumb tacks off a board at 50 yds. all day. I only say 50 yds. because that is all the room I have to safely shoot in my backyard. I would put 30 tacks in my target backing board, and put 30 rounds in a mag, and blow the head off every tack without missing any. Not gloating, just trying to vouch for this barrel, lol, I was really surprised for how cheap it was! Also, I was using a bipod from a bench, but I digress...

I'm looking at getting a much nicer scope in a week or so, doing a little research still, and I want to get my ammo and get all the bugs worked out before deer season.

That being said, back to the topic at hand. I've narrowed it down to either the 60 gr. Nosler Partition (P223Q), or the 55 gr. Barnes Triple Shock X (P223S), both from Federal Premium. I figure with the 1/9 twist rate, either will stabilize well, I'm more worried about one shot, clean, quick kills without terrorizing the meat. I know the limitations of the round for hunting deer, and I have more than enough self control to know what shots to take, and what shots to walk away from. Please don't instruct me to "use a bigger round", I've heard it all before, lol!

Anyone have any experience with deer hunting with these loads? Know of a good review of either that you can point me to?
capitolP
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Posted: 8/16/2011 10:20:03 PM
I have used both and hands down the TSX is a better round for medium sized game. The TSX does not shed any weight so penetration is better, the petaled design causes tremendous tissue damage which leads to faster bleed out and better blood trails. If price is not an issue the 62gr TSX penetrates even better, but costs about 1.20/round. The NP will certainly kill a whitetail so if it shoots better don't feel like your settling but the TSX is a cut above. It, TSX, really takes the 5.56 to a higher level. I even shot a cow elk in the neck with one and killed it drt.

P
colt100
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Posted: 8/16/2011 10:29:48 PM
Haven't used a 223 for deer and doubt I ever will. Not trying to talk your out of it or anything but I have plenty of other calibers for deer, including a 6.8 in an AR platform, which is what I currently use.

Have you ever looked at the 70 gr Barnes? http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition-70gr-leadfree.aspx Kinda pricy and out of stock at this time but for hunting, I have heard that this is one of the best rounds for deer.

Out of the rounds you listed, I would go with the barnes loads.
LittleTanRifle
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Posted: 8/16/2011 10:51:26 PM
Originally Posted By capitolP:
I have used both and hands down the TSX is a better round for medium sized game. The TSX does not shed any weight so penetration is better, the petaled design causes tremendous tissue damage which leads to faster bleed out and better blood trails. If price is not an issue the 62gr TSX penetrates even better, but costs about 1.20/round. The NP will certainly kill a whitetail so if it shoots better don't feel like your settling but the TSX is a cut above. It, TSX, really takes the 5.56 to a higher level. I even shot a cow elk in the neck with one and killed it drt.

P


This is what I wanted to hear, real world experience! I was kind of leaning toward the TSX, but was mildly turned off by the lighter bullet. Could you link to the 62 gr. ones you speak of? Haven't seen them before. One thing I did really like about the TSX was the fact that there is no lead, but the expansion didn't seem to be as good as the NP. Might have to just tray a box or two of all these at the range and see what shoots best, then go from there.

Originally Posted By colt100:
Haven't used a 223 for deer and doubt I ever will. Not trying to talk your out of it or anything but I have plenty of other calibers for deer, including a 6.8 in an AR platform, which is what I currently use.

Have you ever looked at the 70 gr Barnes? http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition-70gr-leadfree.aspx Kinda pricy and out of stock at this time but for hunting, I have heard that this is one of the best rounds for deer.

Out of the rounds you listed, I would go with the barnes loads.


I'm either gonna build a 6.8 AR, or just buy a bolt action .308 as a backup, but I'm determined that I am going to get a buck with my AR. I've proved the build on paper, time to prove it in the woods, lol. I was only looking at the 55 and 60 gr. because I was under the impression that a 70 gr. wouldn't stabilize out of a 1/9 twist barrel. Even on the site you linked:

All copper Open Tip, 2730 FPS
Designation: 70 grain Barnes TSX-BT
Recommended twist rate 1-8 or faster
Excellent barrier and hunting round

I dunno, I might have to buy a box and just try them for myself. Price is right on par with everything else I've looked at, too.
capitolP
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Posted: 8/16/2011 11:18:06 PM
[Last Edit: 8/16/2011 11:20:59 PM by capitolP]
The TSX expands to about .48 caliber, the best I have ever recovered out of the NP is about .34 caliber. The 62 gr load is a Black Hills load that Midway USA carries. Your 1:9 will stabilize it well.

A 5.56 with TSX's is plenty of gun for wt deer. I have killed hundreds with that set up. I use 70gr TSX's but my bbls are 1:7.

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LittleTanRifle
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Posted: 8/16/2011 11:34:11 PM
[Last Edit: 8/16/2011 11:36:36 PM by LittleTanRifle]
Damn, you weren't shittin' about the price, lol. I'll have to order a box Friday. Why can't they make 20rd. boxes? Do you know if you can get just the bullets? I can have a buddy just handload me a few to try out...

I'm gonna have to look around and see if I can find them...

ETA: Found them, $25 for 50, ordered, lol!
capitolP
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Posted: 8/17/2011 12:02:15 AM
I loaded then with 25.0gr of H4895 with great accuracy. You'll love the 62's

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LittleTanRifle
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Posted: 8/17/2011 12:08:55 AM
I hope so, you sound like a rather enlightened individual, lol! I'm inclined to believe the things you are telling me!
capitolP
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Posted: 8/17/2011 8:19:24 AM
Originally Posted By LittleTanRifle:
I hope so, you sound like a rather enlightened individual, lol! I'm inclined to believe the things you are telling me!


No BS just real world experience. I hunt every two weeks from Feb-Sept (hogs/exotics) and at least two days a week Oct-Jan.(wt deer/hogs/exotics). I stay just barely employed and married .

Glad to help out when I have knowledge. There is a tremendous amount of mis-information here (on the internet) about ammo, in particularly bullets. My observations are all from flesh, not gel, in real world experience.


P
PFC
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Posted: 8/17/2011 10:00:26 AM
[Last Edit: 8/17/2011 10:08:42 AM by PFC]
Some states have a minimum bullet weight for hunting.
I lean toward Barnes, but I would not feel handicapped with NPs.
LittleTanRifle
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Posted: 8/17/2011 10:24:50 AM
Yeah, I will be using my rifle in WV this year, and I'm pretty sure they don't have a minimum, but I might want to look into that.
cowman71
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Posted: 8/17/2011 7:09:49 PM
Originally Posted By LittleTanRifle:
*snip* I've narrowed it down to either the 60 gr. Nosler Partition (P223Q), or the 55 gr. Barnes Triple Shock X (P223S), both from Federal Premium. I figure with the 1/9 twist rate, either will stabilize well, I'm more worried about one shot, clean, quick kills without terrorizing the meat. I know the limitations of the round for hunting deer, and I have more than enough self control to know what shots to take, and what shots to walk away from. Please don't instruct me to "use a bigger round", I've heard it all before, lol!

Anyone have any experience with deer hunting with these loads? Know of a good review of either that you can point me to?


I've killed deer with both and prefer the TSX. I actually experienced quite a bit of meat damage from the front of the partition opening up so I prefer the seemingly more controlled expansion of the TSX. In my experience, the TSX has also been generally more accurate than the partition in the same firearms.

capitolP
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Posted: 8/17/2011 7:36:36 PM
Originally Posted By cowman71:
Originally Posted By LittleTanRifle:
*snip* I've narrowed it down to either the 60 gr. Nosler Partition (P223Q), or the 55 gr. Barnes Triple Shock X (P223S), both from Federal Premium. I figure with the 1/9 twist rate, either will stabilize well, I'm more worried about one shot, clean, quick kills without terrorizing the meat. I know the limitations of the round for hunting deer, and I have more than enough self control to know what shots to take, and what shots to walk away from. Please don't instruct me to "use a bigger round", I've heard it all before, lol!

Anyone have any experience with deer hunting with these loads? Know of a good review of either that you can point me to?


I've killed deer with both and prefer the TSX. I actually experienced quite a bit of meat damage from the front of the partition opening up so I prefer the seemingly more controlled expansion of the TSX. In my experience, the TSX has also been generally more accurate than the partition in the same firearms.



I have also found both of those to be true with my guns.

P

sinlessorrow
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Posted: 8/17/2011 7:39:24 PM
i say the TSX but since your barrel is 1/9 do not get the 70gr it wont stabalize, its the longest 70gr bullet i believe and requires a 1/7 to properly stabalize
Pumpkinheaver
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Posted: 8/22/2011 12:20:15 PM
I handload the 55TSX for whitetails. You cant go wrong with them. Wish they were cheaper, I'd use them on everything.
Flats
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Posted: 8/22/2011 12:39:01 PM
Question for those who hunt whitetails with this round. I have a friend who uses .223 on his private property for deer, and he teaches his kids to take neck shots when using this caliber. He likes the round for his boys because of the low recoil, but figures it's marginal and a neck shot is much more likely to be a clean miss or an instant kill, and this method works for them. Are you taking typical vitals/behind the shoulder shot with this round? Is tracking typically required, or does it do pretty much the same damage (complete penetration) that more popular hunting rounds do? I'm in NW Florida, so I'm talking about small deer, not monsters. His land, his rules, but I'm worried that my son's going to shoot a jaw off or something. He lets me hunt however I choose, so if I could show him a good kill with a TSX through the vitals maybe I could change his thinking.
0612Devil
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Posted: 8/22/2011 12:52:53 PM
Originally Posted By Flats:
Question for those who hunt whitetails with this round. I have a friend who uses .223 on his private property for deer, and he teaches his kids to take neck shots when using this caliber. He likes the round for his boys because of the low recoil, but figures it's marginal and a neck shot is much more likely to be a clean miss or an instant kill, and this method works for them. Are you taking typical vitals/behind the shoulder shot with this round? Is tracking typically required, or does it do pretty much the same damage (complete penetration) that more popular hunting rounds do? I'm in NW Florida, so I'm talking about small deer, not monsters. His land, his rules, but I'm worried that my son's going to shoot a jaw off or something. He lets me hunt however I choose, so if I could show him a good kill with a TSX through the vitals maybe I could change his thinking.


My last 2 deer were killed with BB 55 Gr. HPs through the Heart/Lung Cavity. Both rounds exited completely and both dropped with one shot. I'm sure you will be fine with the TSX through the vitals.
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eudyta63
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Posted: 8/22/2011 1:09:42 PM
IMHO the .223 will do the job if the shooter does his.Either of these types of ammo,along with some others will get the job done.A neck shot will drop them,but you have less room to be off on your shot.That is the reason most people shoot for the heart, lung area.A guy on the hog hunting forum goes by "skypup" has killed some very large hogs with the .223,but he puts the bullet where it needs to go.Bottom line is shot placement is the key here.
capitolP
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Posted: 8/22/2011 2:13:26 PM
Agreed with 2 above, shot placement is key. If he "blows a jaw off" it would be a gut shot or shoulder bone shot if he aims heart/lung. Both are lost deer. The farthest a deer/hog has run with a TSX from a 5.56 through the vitals with me is 30 yards and that is out of 100's of deer/hogs. If it exits, most do, yo will have a good blood trail through the heart and descent/minimal one from the lungs. Lung shot animals generally bleed out internally so blood trails are minimal at best.

i usually take neck shots so there is no tracking BUT you miss you 2 " and you may just get meat. Contrast that with a heart lung shot and you have a 6" bulls eye.

P
M4_man_223
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Posted: 8/22/2011 9:09:02 PM
Ive shot several with the nosler partition federal loads. Did the job every time with ease.....
CJFirefly
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Posted: 8/23/2011 12:38:22 AM
Originally Posted By Pumpkinheaver:
I handload the 55TSX for whitetails. You cant go wrong with them. Wish they were cheaper, I'd use them on everything.


Are you getting complete pass throughs with the 55 grain tsx?

Landric
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Posted: 8/23/2011 8:35:23 PM
North Carolina allows rifle hunting with the 5.56mm/.223. I think I'm going to go that route this year, either with my SIG 556 or PSA 20" Government build, not sure which yet.

Since both are 1/7 twist guns, I am planning on one or another 70+ grain bullet. I have a co-worker who kills a truckload of deer every year and he swears by the .223 for white tail.
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Posted: 8/24/2011 4:40:29 PM
Either load will work if you make a good shot and hit the vitals.
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Bowhntr6pt
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Posted: 8/24/2011 6:51:23 PM
Originally Posted By Flats:
Question for those who hunt whitetails with this round. I have a friend who uses .223 on his private property for deer, and he teaches his kids to take neck shots when using this caliber. He likes the round for his boys because of the low recoil, but figures it's marginal and a neck shot is much more likely to be a clean miss or an instant kill, and this method works for them. Are you taking typical vitals/behind the shoulder shot with this round? Is tracking typically required, or does it do pretty much the same damage (complete penetration) that more popular hunting rounds do? I'm in NW Florida, so I'm talking about small deer, not monsters. His land, his rules, but I'm worried that my son's going to shoot a jaw off or something. He lets me hunt however I choose, so if I could show him a good kill with a TSX through the vitals maybe I could change his thinking.


I have taken several deer in Florida and South Carolina using the 70gr Speer semi-spitzer loaded with 26.0grs W-748. I always shoot behind the shoulder, all but one has been a clean shoot-through. None have gone more than say 50 yards or so. The .223 is very effective on deer with PROPER SHOT PLACEMENT.
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