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dogsplat
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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Posted: 4/21/2011 11:44:16 AM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
What's that mean?

You can shoot it but don't rely on it?

Bueller?

Anyone?
Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco. Nothing!
RDTCU
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Posted: 4/21/2011 11:46:06 AM
just got the Natchez email too?
fuzzy03cls
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Posted: 4/21/2011 12:00:04 PM
Factory rejected ammo. The lot it's from didn't pass some tests for either accuracy, or power.

Doesn't mean it's all bad. But if some of it fails they fail it all & start again. Selling these lots to the civilian market.
FlatFrogFlyer
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Posted: 4/21/2011 12:34:09 PM
Originally Posted By dogsplat:
What's that mean?

You can shoot it but don't rely on it?

Bueller?

Anyone?


Right on the money. Factory discovered a problem where it didn't meet the customers quality control levels but the ammo was still of sufficient quality for training use.
dogsplat
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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Posted: 4/21/2011 1:18:15 PM
Thanks, all.
Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco. Nothing!
lapster
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Posted: 4/22/2011 2:50:12 PM
My Two Cents:
Not For Duty Use should also mean "Not Worth Full Price". What that magic number should be is up to you...but don't spend your hard earned $ on ammo that's been rejected for one reason or another unless you feel the price is worth the chance the ammo might not function like you want it to...or even worse, like you need it to. If it''s being sold at a discount, and you're comfortable with the price, buy it!
nitsuj890
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Posted: 4/22/2011 10:20:30 PM
how do these come packed, in a bando?
PAGO
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Posted: 4/23/2011 10:44:54 AM
Originally Posted By nitsuj890:
how do these come packed, in a bando?


Negative on the bando.
Stripper clips inside cardboard sleeves.
And spoon.
UT-ARShooter
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Posted: 4/23/2011 12:21:44 PM
I talked to friend about this who is an ammo dealer. He was told this is the usual XM855 that regularly hits the shelves. He said it's the typical Federal marketing thing where they change the packaging around but it's the same ammo, kind of like how they do that with XM193. I believe him as he's never steered me wrong. With that said, I look at it like anything else...if you get it for a good price and it shoots well, then get it. If not there are other things out there such as IMI, Prvi, PMC X-Tac, etc. that work. Hell, even the ATI SS109 works really well in my rifles and it's relatively cheap compared to the others I listed.

diversmith
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Posted: 4/23/2011 1:54:16 PM
[Last Edit: 4/23/2011 1:55:33 PM by diversmith]
Originally Posted By lapster:
My Two Cents:
Not For Duty Use should also mean "Not Worth Full Price". What that magic number should be is up to you...but don't spend your hard earned $ on ammo that's been rejected for one reason or another unless you feel the price is worth the chance the ammo might not function like you want it to...or even worse, like you need it to. If it''s being sold at a discount, and you're comfortable with the price, buy it!


This^^^
If it is labeled this way, you shouldn't be paying regular price for it. If it's the same price as "regular" why not just buy the regular stuff. Years ago there was the Speer gold dot +p 9mm that was labeled the same way but it was a steal for training ammo that is the same as your carry ammo. So far, all that I have shot has gone bang. Bottom line is it was a great deal for +p training ammo....I would never have paid the same price for it that I could have bought the real deal for. Every so often I put a mag of it thru my carry guns or if i buy a new pistol I use this stuff to make sure it runs in that particular pistol during the first 500 round "trial period"

ETA...I think the M855 is priced too high for what it is...just my.02 worth
PAGO
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Posted: 4/23/2011 2:38:35 PM
I remember buying xm193pd and everyone said it was bad. I culled the very few crappy ones and the rest went bang.
Fwiw it was cheap and it worked fine. All ammo nowadays is too expensive. Buy what you can now. I recently finished off a case of the pd stuff and have some more to go.
As the saying goes, buy it cheap ...
FMJ
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Posted: 4/24/2011 1:48:45 AM
range only ammo
YHVH
PAGO
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Posted: 4/24/2011 10:25:52 AM
Originally Posted By FMJ:
range only ammo


This is what most ammo is used for and exactly my point.
bnz42
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Posted: 4/24/2011 12:11:20 PM
I have yet to see one report of this ammunition failing in any way. Not even one report.
RabidMonkeyPox
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Posted: 4/24/2011 1:01:05 PM
I'm thinking of picking up an ammo case to try out. Either way you can never have enough ammo
GoGo
SolidQuirks Monkey
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Posted: 4/24/2011 1:11:46 PM
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
I'm thinking of picking up an ammo case to try out. Either way you can never have enough ammo


Myself as well.

Just an observation- maybe I'm wrong here, but regular "old" Federal "XM" 5.56X45 of any kind I thought was from rejected lots- hence the "X".

I have a hunch this is the usual suspect that been purchased in both 55 & 62 grain flavors for years- just in yet another variation in packaging. We've seen it loose, in white boxes, in cardboard boxes on strippers, etc...

I think that because the packaging is "deceptively" and attractively "military" the warning is on there to CYA (theirs).
To err is human, to forgive was not SAC policy.
PAGO
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Posted: 4/24/2011 1:13:24 PM
Originally Posted By bnz42:
I have yet to see one report of this ammunition failing in any way. Not even one report.


I also forgot to add that the xm193pd was also labeled for training use only.
I plan on comparing it xtac and regular xm855 as soon I can get a chance.
JoeInCT
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Posted: 4/24/2011 6:49:09 PM
"Not For Duty Use" is the key, as several others have identified. It means there was something wrong with one or more components, or one or more of the manufacturing processes, that was identified by QC or other means, and the ammo could not, as a practical matter, be fixed, so it was bulked packaged and sold as "seconds". If you bought a 20 round package of Speer Gold Dots and paid over a dollar a round for it, stands to reason that if you used it in your home defense gun, and it didn't function properly, you would probably file suit against Speer. Similarly, if LEOs bought it, and a malfunction resulted in a loss of an officer's life, there would be hell to pay. So the mgfr marks it "Not For Duty Use". If QC tests said one round out of a thousand would not light off because of a screw up in the fulmanate of mercury mixture in the primer, there would be no harm done by selling the stuff as "seconds".

Back at the beginning of the Iraq conflict, and places like Ammoman and Ammunition Store were flooded with, first XM193, and then XM855, from Lake City, everyone understood they were sub-quality rounds. One member, stationed in Iraq, even advised that units were receiving the 2,000 round plastic-bag bulk-pack boxes of XM855, marked "Not For Duty Use"; personnel were advised to use that ammo for zeroing, etc, but not for duty use. Apparently Lake City had issues getting the M855 production going after having first made M193 for units still using M16-A1s, and they must have had so much that they asked DoD about buying it up at reduced prices and issuing it to front line units for practice, zeroing, etc. Better than throwing away good ammo which, unfortunately, did not meet all the contractual QC specs.
Muad
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Posted: 4/24/2011 9:03:09 PM
Originally Posted By lapster:
My Two Cents:
Not For Duty Use should also mean "Not Worth Full Price". What that magic number should be is up to you...but don't spend your hard earned $ on ammo that's been rejected for one reason or another unless you feel the price is worth the chance the ammo might not function like you want it to...or even worse, like you need it to. If it''s being sold at a discount, and you're comfortable with the price, buy it!


+1

If it were cheap, I'd snag some myself. But, when you can get IMI and other quality M855 for less or the same price, it's too expensive. I don't buy range only ammo. I want to depend on all that I have in SHTF situation, so I won't every buy something that could potential have issues and should not be "depended on for life or death" situations.

I'd order some IMI from Widener's quick. They have a note about rising prices (like we've seen all the threads about on May 1st.).
Jonboyhst
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Posted: 4/25/2011 3:08:52 AM
I ordered a case of this stuff and compared it to some of my real m855 ammo. This stuff has way more dents and blems when compared. I guess this ammo must be seconds and for range use only?
diversmith
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Posted: 4/25/2011 4:01:47 PM
Originally Posted By Jonboyhst:
I ordered a case of this stuff and compared it to some of my real m855 ammo. This stuff has way more dents and blems when compared. I guess this ammo must be seconds and for range use only?


That's why I can't believe people are paying that price when there are better deals to easily found. Definitely not as bad as people paying 300 bucks for 500 rounds of M855 on Gunbroker because the ad says "armor piercing"
Mawake
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Posted: 4/25/2011 4:46:25 PM
The natchezss XM855 Green Tip 420Rd Can "Not for Duty use" FAXM855LCAC1 would be the same as the XM855PD/CS, a grade 3 ammunition as described in the Ammunition review - Federal/Lake City XM855 BULK PACK thread?

Any suggestions on where to find a good deal on the higher grade M855 in a sealed can?
GoGo
SolidQuirks Monkey
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Posted: 4/25/2011 5:45:59 PM
Originally Posted By Mawake:Any suggestions on where to find a good deal on the higher grade M855 in a sealed can?


When you find this quietly IM me and speak of it with no-one.

To err is human, to forgive was not SAC policy.
Arbiter
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Posted: 4/26/2011 12:17:47 AM
Is this the stuff Federal is selling in the 300 rd boxes for $109.00?

I don't remember seeing "NOT FOR DUTY USE" written on it any where. I won't be back home for another two weeks so I can not check it. It is in a brown box with 300 rounds in a sealed bag inside.

XM855


-Arbiter


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Mawake
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Posted: 4/27/2011 10:19:30 AM
Can anyone comment on the grade of the natchezss "Not for Duty use" XM855 Green Tip 420Rd can? If it is grade 3 would it come on stripper clips and in a can? I only came across information on XM855PD/CS bulk pack being grade 3.
WinstonStix
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Posted: 4/27/2011 3:26:14 PM
[Last Edit: 5/4/2011 7:26:29 PM by WinstonStix]
Wow xm 193 is seconds or sub par? some body should have told my weapon that because it runs 3/4 " groups at a 100 yards with that sub standard stuff.
seriosly I have ran thousands of rounds of xm 193 and never had any problems at all, not one failure ever and it has been the most accurate out of the box round i have found . As far as the designations go it doesnt matter what string of characters come after the load designation those are simply packaging descriptions. XM 193bl is the same thing as XM 193j (just differant packaging) just as XM 855 is XM 855 there are no "grades " of either of these loads and Xm 855 is held to the same specifications as XM 193 with the differnce being the bullet type/weight and charge. The xm 855 is a steel core penetrator that some ranges might not allow? As far as the XM designation it was explained to me that the M designated milll spec and the X designates over run intended for civilian/domestic sales. I recently purchased two 420 rnd cans at 149.99 each, I opened one for inspection and found a very well packed container that was in fact in a slight vacume and contained 10 round stripper clips times three per cardboard sleeve all excess space was taken up by styrofoam and they included a strip clip adapter. all rounds looked great and cases were properly annealed and sealed. The cans I bought did come with Lake City tamper proof tags. As far as the "NOT FOR DUTY USE" I believe this is simply because it is a steel core round and lacks the soft tissue damaging characteristics of "defensive" loads. In short it will over penetrate in soft tissue.
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