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When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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Posted: 4/21/2011 6:44:16 AM EST
What's that mean?

You can shoot it but don't rely on it?

Bueller?

Anyone?
Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco. Nothing!
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Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:46:06 AM EST
just got the Natchez email too?

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Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:00:04 AM EST
Factory rejected ammo. The lot it's from didn't pass some tests for either accuracy, or power.

Doesn't mean it's all bad. But if some of it fails they fail it all & start again. Selling these lots to the civilian market.

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Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:34:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By dogsplat:
What's that mean?

You can shoot it but don't rely on it?

Bueller?

Anyone?


Right on the money. Factory discovered a problem where it didn't meet the customers quality control levels but the ammo was still of sufficient quality for training use.

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Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:18:15 AM EST
Thanks, all.
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Link Posted: 4/22/2011 9:50:12 AM EST
My Two Cents:
Not For Duty Use should also mean "Not Worth Full Price". What that magic number should be is up to you...but don't spend your hard earned $ on ammo that's been rejected for one reason or another unless you feel the price is worth the chance the ammo might not function like you want it to...or even worse, like you need it to. If it''s being sold at a discount, and you're comfortable with the price, buy it!

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Link Posted: 4/22/2011 5:20:30 PM EST
how do these come packed, in a bando?

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Link Posted: 4/23/2011 5:44:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By nitsuj890:
how do these come packed, in a bando?


Negative on the bando.
Stripper clips inside cardboard sleeves.
And spoon.

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Link Posted: 4/23/2011 7:21:44 AM EST
I talked to friend about this who is an ammo dealer. He was told this is the usual XM855 that regularly hits the shelves. He said it's the typical Federal marketing thing where they change the packaging around but it's the same ammo, kind of like how they do that with XM193. I believe him as he's never steered me wrong. With that said, I look at it like anything else...if you get it for a good price and it shoots well, then get it. If not there are other things out there such as IMI, Prvi, PMC X-Tac, etc. that work. Hell, even the ATI SS109 works really well in my rifles and it's relatively cheap compared to the others I listed.


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Link Posted: 4/23/2011 8:54:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/23/2011 8:55:33 AM EST by diversmith]
Originally Posted By lapster:
My Two Cents:
Not For Duty Use should also mean "Not Worth Full Price". What that magic number should be is up to you...but don't spend your hard earned $ on ammo that's been rejected for one reason or another unless you feel the price is worth the chance the ammo might not function like you want it to...or even worse, like you need it to. If it''s being sold at a discount, and you're comfortable with the price, buy it!


This^^^
If it is labeled this way, you shouldn't be paying regular price for it. If it's the same price as "regular" why not just buy the regular stuff. Years ago there was the Speer gold dot +p 9mm that was labeled the same way but it was a steal for training ammo that is the same as your carry ammo. So far, all that I have shot has gone bang. Bottom line is it was a great deal for +p training ammo....I would never have paid the same price for it that I could have bought the real deal for. Every so often I put a mag of it thru my carry guns or if i buy a new pistol I use this stuff to make sure it runs in that particular pistol during the first 500 round "trial period"

ETA...I think the M855 is priced too high for what it is...just my.02 worth

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Link Posted: 4/23/2011 9:38:35 AM EST
I remember buying xm193pd and everyone said it was bad. I culled the very few crappy ones and the rest went bang.
Fwiw it was cheap and it worked fine. All ammo nowadays is too expensive. Buy what you can now. I recently finished off a case of the pd stuff and have some more to go.
As the saying goes, buy it cheap ...

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Link Posted: 4/23/2011 8:48:45 PM EST
range only ammo
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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 5:25:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By FMJ:
range only ammo


This is what most ammo is used for and exactly my point.

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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 7:11:20 AM EST
I have yet to see one report of this ammunition failing in any way. Not even one report.

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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 8:01:05 AM EST
I'm thinking of picking up an ammo case to try out. Either way you can never have enough ammo

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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 8:11:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
I'm thinking of picking up an ammo case to try out. Either way you can never have enough ammo


Myself as well.

Just an observation- maybe I'm wrong here, but regular "old" Federal "XM" 5.56X45 of any kind I thought was from rejected lots- hence the "X".

I have a hunch this is the usual suspect that been purchased in both 55 & 62 grain flavors for years- just in yet another variation in packaging. We've seen it loose, in white boxes, in cardboard boxes on strippers, etc...

I think that because the packaging is "deceptively" and attractively "military" the warning is on there to CYA (theirs).
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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 8:13:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By bnz42:
I have yet to see one report of this ammunition failing in any way. Not even one report.


I also forgot to add that the xm193pd was also labeled for training use only.
I plan on comparing it xtac and regular xm855 as soon I can get a chance.

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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 1:49:09 PM EST
"Not For Duty Use" is the key, as several others have identified. It means there was something wrong with one or more components, or one or more of the manufacturing processes, that was identified by QC or other means, and the ammo could not, as a practical matter, be fixed, so it was bulked packaged and sold as "seconds". If you bought a 20 round package of Speer Gold Dots and paid over a dollar a round for it, stands to reason that if you used it in your home defense gun, and it didn't function properly, you would probably file suit against Speer. Similarly, if LEOs bought it, and a malfunction resulted in a loss of an officer's life, there would be hell to pay. So the mgfr marks it "Not For Duty Use". If QC tests said one round out of a thousand would not light off because of a screw up in the fulmanate of mercury mixture in the primer, there would be no harm done by selling the stuff as "seconds".

Back at the beginning of the Iraq conflict, and places like Ammoman and Ammunition Store were flooded with, first XM193, and then XM855, from Lake City, everyone understood they were sub-quality rounds. One member, stationed in Iraq, even advised that units were receiving the 2,000 round plastic-bag bulk-pack boxes of XM855, marked "Not For Duty Use"; personnel were advised to use that ammo for zeroing, etc, but not for duty use. Apparently Lake City had issues getting the M855 production going after having first made M193 for units still using M16-A1s, and they must have had so much that they asked DoD about buying it up at reduced prices and issuing it to front line units for practice, zeroing, etc. Better than throwing away good ammo which, unfortunately, did not meet all the contractual QC specs.

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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 4:03:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By lapster:
My Two Cents:
Not For Duty Use should also mean "Not Worth Full Price". What that magic number should be is up to you...but don't spend your hard earned $ on ammo that's been rejected for one reason or another unless you feel the price is worth the chance the ammo might not function like you want it to...or even worse, like you need it to. If it''s being sold at a discount, and you're comfortable with the price, buy it!


+1

If it were cheap, I'd snag some myself. But, when you can get IMI and other quality M855 for less or the same price, it's too expensive. I don't buy range only ammo. I want to depend on all that I have in SHTF situation, so I won't every buy something that could potential have issues and should not be "depended on for life or death" situations.

I'd order some IMI from Widener's quick. They have a note about rising prices (like we've seen all the threads about on May 1st.).

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Link Posted: 4/24/2011 10:08:52 PM EST
I ordered a case of this stuff and compared it to some of my real m855 ammo. This stuff has way more dents and blems when compared. I guess this ammo must be seconds and for range use only?

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Link Posted: 4/25/2011 11:01:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Jonboyhst:
I ordered a case of this stuff and compared it to some of my real m855 ammo. This stuff has way more dents and blems when compared. I guess this ammo must be seconds and for range use only?


That's why I can't believe people are paying that price when there are better deals to easily found. Definitely not as bad as people paying 300 bucks for 500 rounds of M855 on Gunbroker because the ad says "armor piercing"

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Link Posted: 4/25/2011 11:46:25 AM EST
The natchezss XM855 Green Tip 420Rd Can "Not for Duty use" FAXM855LCAC1 would be the same as the XM855PD/CS, a grade 3 ammunition as described in the Ammunition review - Federal/Lake City XM855 BULK PACK thread?

Any suggestions on where to find a good deal on the higher grade M855 in a sealed can?

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Link Posted: 4/25/2011 12:45:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mawake:Any suggestions on where to find a good deal on the higher grade M855 in a sealed can?


When you find this quietly IM me and speak of it with no-one.

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Link Posted: 4/25/2011 7:17:47 PM EST
Is this the stuff Federal is selling in the 300 rd boxes for $109.00?

I don't remember seeing "NOT FOR DUTY USE" written on it any where. I won't be back home for another two weeks so I can not check it. It is in a brown box with 300 rounds in a sealed bag inside.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2011 5:19:30 AM EST
Can anyone comment on the grade of the natchezss "Not for Duty use" XM855 Green Tip 420Rd can? If it is grade 3 would it come on stripper clips and in a can? I only came across information on XM855PD/CS bulk pack being grade 3.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2011 10:26:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2011 2:26:29 PM EST by WinstonStix]
Wow xm 193 is seconds or sub par? some body should have told my weapon that because it runs 3/4 " groups at a 100 yards with that sub standard stuff.
seriosly I have ran thousands of rounds of xm 193 and never had any problems at all, not one failure ever and it has been the most accurate out of the box round i have found . As far as the designations go it doesnt matter what string of characters come after the load designation those are simply packaging descriptions. XM 193bl is the same thing as XM 193j (just differant packaging) just as XM 855 is XM 855 there are no "grades " of either of these loads and Xm 855 is held to the same specifications as XM 193 with the differnce being the bullet type/weight and charge. The xm 855 is a steel core penetrator that some ranges might not allow? As far as the XM designation it was explained to me that the M designated milll spec and the X designates over run intended for civilian/domestic sales. I recently purchased two 420 rnd cans at 149.99 each, I opened one for inspection and found a very well packed container that was in fact in a slight vacume and contained 10 round stripper clips times three per cardboard sleeve all excess space was taken up by styrofoam and they included a strip clip adapter. all rounds looked great and cases were properly annealed and sealed. The cans I bought did come with Lake City tamper proof tags. As far as the "NOT FOR DUTY USE" I believe this is simply because it is a steel core round and lacks the soft tissue damaging characteristics of "defensive" loads. In short it will over penetrate in soft tissue.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2011 1:31:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By WinstonStix:
Wow xm 193 is seconds or sub par? some body should have told my weapon that because it runs 3/4 " groups at a 100 yards with that sub standard stuff..


wow I think you said this on the other topic about PD M855

3/4 groups at 100yards ( ive done it with 3rd & 5rd groups)


I havent had any failures shooting LC M855
and Ive been shooting it for long time

I have had bad accuracy with certian lots of LC M855

Surplus is okay s for range / pratice only !!! (Or if you run out of TSX/Bonded SP/75gtTAP/MK262)

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Link Posted: 4/27/2011 4:10:15 PM EST
Yes I posted to both threads because they were linked by another poster and the informations is the same for both loads. I'm not "braging " about 3/4 " groups at 100 yards whether it is three or five shot strings as there are plenty of shooters on this forum as well as out there that can do much better. I simply am stating that if you buy factory packaged xm193 or xm855 from a reputable vender you are getting what you paid for and shouldn't have any concerns. ATK is not going to put defective ammunition in the hands of consumers period.

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Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:49:27 PM EST
A buddy of mine picked up one of these "canned-deals"... shot about 100 rds of it without issue. So I picked up a can too...

Doesn't look, on the outside, any different from any other FC XM855 I've bought before...

For what I paid and my intended use, plus a new ammo can, a stripper clip tool and 42 reusable stripper clips... seems like a good deal to me... even if it says "Not for duty use" on the side of the can.

FWIW...

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Link Posted: 5/8/2011 7:12:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mawake:
Can anyone comment on the grade of the natchezss "Not for Duty use" XM855 Green Tip 420Rd can? If it is grade 3 would it come on stripper clips and in a can? I only came across information on XM855PD/CS bulk pack being grade 3.


Just got out to shoot yesterday with this. Shoots just like any XM855 I've shot before. Accuracy was about 1MOA. It was very windy so it was hard to get better than that, but I'm happy with that for now. The ONLY complaint I have about these rounds is the stripper clips. They are hard as hell to get the rounds off them into the mag. Not all of them but about 6 or 7 out of 12 I had the stripper clip try to feed into the magazine with the rounds. First time this has ever happened to me and I have used many thousands of stripper clips. No, my magazines are fine, my XM193 loads just fine. IF these were REJECTED for any reason this would be my guess on why. If you had to load fast, there is no way you could use these. I'm not saying that they are ALL bad as I only used 120 rds. It could be how the brass was processed or how the clips were processed but something is a little off.

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Link Posted: 5/8/2011 9:16:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Espos1111:
Originally Posted By Mawake:
Can anyone comment on the grade of the natchezss "Not for Duty use" XM855 Green Tip 420Rd can? If it is grade 3 would it come on stripper clips and in a can? I only came across information on XM855PD/CS bulk pack being grade 3.


Just got out to shoot yesterday with this. Shoots just like any XM855 I've shot before. Accuracy was about 1MOA. It was very windy so it was hard to get better than that, but I'm happy with that for now. The ONLY complaint I have about these rounds is the stripper clips. They are hard as hell to get the rounds off them into the mag. Not all of them but about 6 or 7 out of 12 I had the stripper clip try to feed into the magazine with the rounds. First time this has ever happened to me and I have used many thousands of stripper clips. No, my magazines are fine, my XM193 loads just fine. IF these were REJECTED for any reason this would be my guess on why. If you had to load fast, there is no way you could use these. I'm not saying that they are ALL bad as I only used 120 rds. It could be how the brass was processed or how the clips were processed but something is a little off.


Wow! You must have gotten the super-duper ultra match lot of M855 to be getting 1 moa on a very windy day

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Link Posted: 5/8/2011 11:31:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2011 4:01:00 PM EST by Espos1111]
Deleted.

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Link Posted: 5/8/2011 4:10:08 PM EST
Ohhh.........that little tiny group inside that big group? Like I said, you must have gotten a very special lot of M855


Originally Posted By Espos1111:
Originally Posted By diversmith:
Originally Posted By Espos1111:
Originally Posted By Mawake:
Can anyone comment on the grade of the natchezss "Not for Duty use" XM855 Green Tip 420Rd can? If it is grade 3 would it come on stripper clips and in a can? I only came across information on XM855PD/CS bulk pack being grade 3.


Just got out to shoot yesterday with this. Shoots just like any XM855 I've shot before. Accuracy was about 1MOA. It was very windy so it was hard to get better than that, but I'm happy with that for now. The ONLY complaint I have about these rounds is the stripper clips. They are hard as hell to get the rounds off them into the mag. Not all of them but about 6 or 7 out of 12 I had the stripper clip try to feed into the magazine with the rounds. First time this has ever happened to me and I have used many thousands of stripper clips. No, my magazines are fine, my XM193 loads just fine. IF these were REJECTED for any reason this would be my guess on why. If you had to load fast, there is no way you could use these. I'm not saying that they are ALL bad as I only used 120 rds. It could be how the brass was processed or how the clips were processed but something is a little off.


Wow! You must have gotten the super-duper ultra match lot of M855 to be getting 1 moa on a very windy day


It was only 100 yds, smart guy, and I didn't say all 20rds in 1 MOA. Wind 10 to 15 mph from the west only so it was somewhat easy to sight in. When we moved out to 200 it was more like 6 MOA I'm not saying I'm a great shot but 100yds is pretty easy to get 1 MOA with almost anything. I wasn't bragging I was answering a question, but now that you brought it up, how about that group at 9 o'clock? 20", 1:7, 2 stage trigger and Nikon M223 4-12x

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/espos1111/target.jpg



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Link Posted: 5/8/2011 4:21:15 PM EST
I am the Ammo Pimp

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Link Posted: 5/9/2011 5:46:21 AM EST
Its the only way fed can sell LC ammo that the .gov doesn't want. Or not even that they didn't want, just they might have had extra, so they have to mark it this way so they can sell it. I wouldn't have any problem shooting it, or relying on it.

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Link Posted: 5/9/2011 8:13:45 AM EST
I just got two cans of it. I don't know much, but it doesn't "look" like rejects. No more dents, dings or anything than other rounds I've held. I've not shot it yet, so no comment on function or accuracy.

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Link Posted: 5/9/2011 8:41:16 AM EST
This is what Federal has to say about the XM193–– no mention of grades etc etc.
http://www.federalpremium.com/resources/xm193.aspx
Why then would they suddenly be different with the M855? They aren't going to sell sub standard stuff out on the market.
If it shoots good in your rifle great! Buy it if you want–– think it is not good enough or too expensive- Don't.
Some else, like me will.......

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Link Posted: 5/10/2011 3:55:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2011 3:20:17 AM EST by Espos1111]
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Link Posted: 5/11/2011 10:07:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Espos1111:
deleted



Thank you for deleting your post with subtle personal attacks (I didn't see it in time to quote it in my post)....maybe you have since read up on Molon's excellent threads on ammo performance and accuracy testing (or maybe you were asked by the mods) and decided it would behoove you to take down all of the written nonsense and target picture showing what appeared to be a 5 MOA grouping. Since you used the term "ass bags" in your last post, I will be happy to point out that those types of posters can be readily found in GD.....NOT in the technical forums. In the tech forums, we like to keep ass-baggery out of threads reserved specifically for "technical" "things", like...ohhhh....let's say, ACCURACY!!!!!!!!!!! When people post "I ONLY got 1 MOA out of my chrome lined rifle on a windy day...I normally do better than that" that leads to bad info being spread around on the interent, and then lame threads like "why am I ONLY getting 2 MOA with M855 out of my chrome lined BCM upper" seem to continually pop up and take up valuable space.

I think anyone on here longer than 1 year should probably know by now that M193/M855 is 2-3 MOA ammo on great days with no wind swirling around. Hell, I'm glad when I get 1.5 MOA with Prvi Match 69gr out of a quality stainless barrel It takes a great combination of top level equipment and ammo to get 1 MOA or less at 100 yards off the bench properly sand bagged

Have a great day and have fun reloading all of your .5 MOA handloads that you bragged about

The bottom line on this ammo is it "failed" some sort of test criteria and it is therefore not worth what people are paying for it (even a very reputable person like Bryan from AIM is stating so), especially so when you can get PMC XTAC for cheaper from Palmetto. This Federal ammo, labeled as it is, should be priced less than other M855 out there. Buying it all up at inflated prices only encourages ammo companies to do more of it. If it was priced accordingly, trust me...I would be buying it up as well (for practice only) but definitely not at this price! Just my .02 worth and YMMV

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Link Posted: 5/11/2011 10:09:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2011 8:54:17 AM EST by diversmith]
More bullshit below from an "expert" in Colorado (Espos111)

Originally Posted By diversmith:
Ohhh.........that little tiny group inside that big group? Like I said, you must have gotten a very special lot of M855


Originally Posted By Espos1111:
Originally Posted By diversmith:
Originally Posted By Espos1111:
Originally Posted By Mawake:
Can anyone comment on the grade of the natchezss "Not for Duty use" XM855 Green Tip 420Rd can? If it is grade 3 would it come on stripper clips and in a can? I only came across information on XM855PD/CS bulk pack being grade 3.


Just got out to shoot yesterday with this. Shoots just like any XM855 I've shot before. Accuracy was about 1MOA. It was very windy so it was hard to get better than that, but I'm happy with that for now. The ONLY complaint I have about these rounds is the stripper clips. They are hard as hell to get the rounds off them into the mag. Not all of them but about 6 or 7 out of 12 I had the stripper clip try to feed into the magazine with the rounds. First time this has ever happened to me and I have used many thousands of stripper clips. No, my magazines are fine, my XM193 loads just fine. IF these were REJECTED for any reason this would be my guess on why. If you had to load fast, there is no way you could use these. I'm not saying that they are ALL bad as I only used 120 rds. It could be how the brass was processed or how the clips were processed but something is a little off.


Wow! You must have gotten the super-duper ultra match lot of M855 to be getting 1 moa on a very windy day


It was only 100 yds, smart guy, and I didn't say all 20rds in 1 MOA. Wind 10 to 15 mph from the west only so it was somewhat easy to sight in. When we moved out to 200 it was more like 6 MOA I'm not saying I'm a great shot but 100yds is pretty easy to get 1 MOA with almost anything. I wasn't bragging I was answering a question, but now that you brought it up, how about that group at 9 o'clock? 20", 1:7, 2 stage trigger and Nikon M223 4-12xhttp://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/espos1111/target.jpg





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Link Posted: 5/12/2011 7:13:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By WinstonStix:
Yes I posted to both threads because they were linked by another poster and the informations is the same for both loads. I'm not "braging " about 3/4 " groups at 100 yards whether it is three or five shot strings as there are plenty of shooters on this forum as well as out there that can do much better. I simply am stating that if you buy factory packaged xm193 or xm855 from a reputable vender you are getting what you paid for and shouldn't have any concerns. ATK is not going to put defective ammunition in the hands of consumers period.


They (ATK) do every year; It's called having a "re-call". Sub Moa M193/M855?

Your quickly crossing the double yellow line of reason and crossing into the stupid lane.

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Link Posted: 5/12/2011 12:09:12 PM EST
I just noticed this thread so hopefully this does not fall on deaf ears...

I work at one of the suppliers mentioned in this thread so hopefully I can explain the "issues" with this ammo.

We (sales staff) were told by our buyers that acording to Federal the ammo has a "1% to 2% bullet intedgrity issue and it may break up during flight after it leaves the barrel." The cost os a litte cheaper per round depending on the size of the container. Weather or not the saving is worth it to you is up to you.

Part #s are:

FAXM855LCAC1

FAXM855LCBK

If you have any other questions I will try to answer them

Thanks,

Brian
"You know what I think, don't really matter what I think. Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics and all that shit, just goes right out the window." -Hoot
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Link Posted: 5/16/2011 8:40:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2011 8:49:58 PM EST by WinstonStix]
posted below*

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Link Posted: 5/16/2011 8:47:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2011 8:52:26 PM EST by WinstonStix]
Originally Posted By SecurityForcesmember:
Originally Posted By WinstonStix:
Yes I posted to both threads because they were linked by another poster and the informations is the same for both loads. I'm not "braging " about 3/4 " groups at 100 yards whether it is three or five shot strings as there are plenty of shooters on this forum as well as out there that can do much better. I simply am stating that if you buy factory packaged xm193 or xm855 from a reputable vender you are getting what you paid for and shouldn't have any concerns. ATK is not going to put defective ammunition in the hands of consumers period.


They (ATK) do every year; It's called having a "re-call". Sub Moa M193/M855?

Your quickly crossing the double yellow line of reason and crossing into the stupid lane.


A recall is different than knowingly selling defective ammunition, and marking it as such and then selling it would definitly invite lawsuits. Come on have a little common sense, and as far as your statement and animation go you proved nothing more than your williness to be an asshole. If your going to post in the thread the least you could do is bring something of informational value.

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Link Posted: 5/17/2011 8:42:16 AM EST
What I want to know is if it comes with pretzels?
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Link Posted: 5/17/2011 8:56:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/17/2011 8:57:47 AM EST by PAGO]
Originally Posted By SPTiger:
What I want to know is if it comes with pretzels?


I remember that. Thanks for the laugh.
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Link Posted: 5/17/2011 9:07:10 AM EST
It chrono'd less than the set minimum so thats where you get the " not for duty use"


Not to highjack this but has anyone shot that 62 gr barrier stuff that is out?


I know a dealer that bought 400 cases of the 600 available.


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Link Posted: 5/19/2011 7:04:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Its the only way fed can sell LC ammo that the .gov doesn't want. Or not even that they didn't want, just they might have had extra, so they have to mark it this way so they can sell it. I wouldn't have any problem shooting it, or relying on it.


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Link Posted: 5/25/2011 7:06:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By WinstonStix:
Originally Posted By SecurityForcesmember:
Originally Posted By WinstonStix:
Yes I posted to both threads because they were linked by another poster and the informations is the same for both loads. I'm not "braging " about 3/4 " groups at 100 yards whether it is three or five shot strings as there are plenty of shooters on this forum as well as out there that can do much better. I simply am stating that if you buy factory packaged xm193 or xm855 from a reputable vender you are getting what you paid for and shouldn't have any concerns. ATK is not going to put defective ammunition in the hands of consumers period.


They (ATK) do every year; It's called having a "re-call". Sub Moa M193/M855?

Your quickly crossing the double yellow line of reason and crossing into the stupid lane.


A recall is different than knowingly selling defective ammunition, and marking it as such and then selling it would definitly invite lawsuits. Come on have a little common sense, and as far as your statement and animation go you proved nothing more than your williness to be an asshole. If
your going to post in the thread the least you could do is bring something of informational value.


Let me bring something of informational value lest those who may not know better come to believe in acheiving sub MOA accuracy with XM193 or 855.

IMO it's more likely for a shooter to get stomped by a unicorn while changing targets.

Some individuals constantly claim sub MOA with that sort of ammo, even guys in my club.

But they never, ever, get anything approaching that level of accuracy when I'm present, or for that matter anyone else.

Maybe it's bad luck, perhaps they get nervous when they shoot with people they know, or could be something else.


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Link Posted: 5/25/2011 7:23:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By America-first:
Maybe it's bad luck, perhaps they get nervous when they shoot with people they know, or could be something else.

I'm gonna go with that. It's the combination of the accuracy of the gun, the ammo, and the shooter. With M193 or M855 it isn't anywhere near 1MOA if you shoot anything more than 5 shot groups. And if you get a 5 shot group that's 1 MOA or less out of either of those you got extremely lucky.
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Link Posted: 5/25/2011 9:16:38 AM EST
Here's a "new" one: At Sportsman's (very good price), one of the guys in the gun section is ex-leo. His interpretation of "not for duty use" means not to be used by law enforcement. Because of the metal insert. " It might pass through unintended targets". Any law enforcement people out there that share the same mind? I picked-up 5 cans of this stuff. Don't want my high end ar's to kaboomb or not do intended damage to BGs or zombies

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