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Posted: 9/26/2010 10:38:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/27/2016 9:15:31 PM EST by Molon]
Attack of the (M193) Clones


clone: one that appears to be a copy of an original form.

Genuine M193 must be tested for and pass all of the specifications laid out in the mil-spec, MIL-C-9963. The required areas of testing included in MIL-C-9963 range from velocity, accuracy, chamber pressure and port pressure to waterproofing, temperature stability, bullet extraction, case hardness, fouling and more.

Genuine US Military M193 can no longer be sold to civilians, thanks to the Clinton Administration. The ammunition that is sold on the commercial market with some form of “M193” in its nomenclature is often referred to as an “M193 clone” because it “appears to be a copy” of genuine M193, but we generally have no idea what specifications of MIL-C-9963 that this ammunition has passed, or has even been tested for.

M193 is loaded with a 55 grain FMJ bullet with a cannelure. The bullet itself, must meet required specifications to be used in genuine M193. For example, the specification for the thickness of the gilding metal jacket of the bullet is 0.021" with a tolerance of - 0.002". For comparison, the jacket of Hornady’s 55 grain FMJ bullet has a thickness of approximately 0.028”. Jacket thickness can have a significant effect on terminal ballistic properties, particularly that of fragmentation. Even the composition of the copper alloy used for the jacket and the lead used for the slug must meet mil-spec requirements for genuine M193.

Genuine US Military M193 can only be charged with powder that has been specifically approved by the US Military for use in this cartridge. If the ammunition in question is not loaded with one of the approved powders, it is not genuine M193 and naturally we have no way of determining what powder was used in a load simply by visual inspection.

Genuine M193 will have the annealing iris visible on the shoulder and neck portion of the case. It will also will have crimped and sealed primers. Genuine M193 has a crimped case mouth along with sealant at the case mouth.


The velocity specification for M193 as cited in MIL-C-9963F states:

The average velocity of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 72 degrees, plus or minus 2 degrees Fahrenheit (F), shall be 3165 feet per second (ft/sec), plus or minus 40 ft/sec, at 78 feet from the muzzle of the weapon. The standard deviation of the velocities shall not exceed 40 ft/sec.

The specification is for a 20” barrel. Depending on multiple variables, this velocity specification equates to a muzzle velocity of approximately 3270 ft/sec, plus or minus 40 ft/sec.

I chronographed four different M193 clones back-to-back for comparison. All four of these loads are currently available on the commercial market (at the time of this writing). These loads were fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt M16A2 barrel. The four loads are listed below:

IMI M193
American Eagle Tactical M193
Privi Partizan (PPU) M193
Winchester Q3131A1.











M16A2 barrel.



Chronographing of the M193 clones was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. All strings of fire consisted of 10 rounds each.









Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.





Atmospheric conditions.

Temperature: 79 degrees F
Humidity: 42%
Barometric pressure: 30.19 inches of Hg
Elevation: 950 feet above sea level






The accuracy specification for M193 cited in MIL-C-9963F is as follows:

The average of the mean radii of all targets of the sample cartridges, fired at 200 yards, shall not exceed 2.0 inches.


These averages are from 10-shot groups fired from machine rested, bolt-actioned test barrels, such as the ones pictured below. All things being equal (which of course they seldom are) this specification equates to a mean radius of 1 inch at 100 yards.











I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the same four M193 clones that were chronographed above, following my usual protocols. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots). The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Pictures of the fired shot-groups will be posted for documentation.


All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the objective-bell of the scope. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.






The Wind Probe.





The test vehicle for this evaluation was a 16” Colt HBAR with chrome lining, a NATO chamber and a 1:9” twist. This is the barrel found on the Colt 6721 carbine. This barrel was free-floated with a 10” LaRue free-float handguard. I specifically choose to evaluate the accuracy this ammunition using an AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered barrel, as this is the type of barrel that is most commonly used to fire this type of ammunition. It is sometimes possible to obtain slightly better accuracy from mil-spec/NATO pressure loads by firing them from an AR-15 that has a stainless steel match-grade barrel with a hybrid chamber such as the Noveske NMmod0 chamber or the Wylde chamber for examples; but you're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.










The 16” Colt HBAR is one of the most accurate “off the shelf” chrome-lined, NATO chambered AR-15 barrels that I’ve evaluated. Three 10-shot groups fired from this barrel from a distance of 100 yards using match-grade hand-loads topped with Sierra 52 grain MatchKings had extreme spreads of:


0.85”
1.14”
0.88”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 0.96”. Over-laying the three 10-shot groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab software produced a 30-shot composite target with a mean radius of 0.32”.




IMI M193





Three 10-shot groups of the IMI M193 were fired in a row from a distance of 100 yards from the Colt 16” HBAR. Those three groups had extreme spreads of:

2.83”
2.77”
2.80”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 2.80”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The composite group had a mean radius of 0.97”.


The smallest 10-shot group.






The 30-shot composite group.







American Eagle Tactical XM193




Three 10-shot groups of the American Eagle Tactical XM193 fired in a row had extreme spreads of:

3.01”
3.25”
3.57”

For a 10-shot group average of 3.27”. The 30-shot composite group had a mean radius of 0.98”.


The smallest 10-shot group.





The 30-shot composite group.







Prvi Partizan M193



Three 10-shot groups of the Priv Partizan M193 were fired in a row from a distance of 100 yards. The groups had extreme spreads of:

2.72”
3.89”
3.74”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 3.45”. All three of these groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the composite group was 1.01”.


The smallest 10-shot group of PPU M193





The 30-shot composite group.






Winchester Q3131A1





Three 10-shot groups of the Winchester Q3131A1 load were fired in a row. The extreme spreads of those groups measured:

2.95”
3.73”
3.35”

for a 10-shot average extreme spread of 3.34”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the composite group was 1.05”.


The smallest 10-shot group.





The 30-shot composite group.







Here is a summary of the results of the accuracy evaluation of the four M193 clones.









continued . . .
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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 10:38:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/27/2016 9:19:41 PM EST by Molon]
Attack of the (M193) Clones, Part Two: M855 Comparison.






In Attack of the (M193) Clones, part one, we examined the velocity and accuracy (technically precision) of four different M193 clones currently available on the commercial market. In part two, we’ll be examining the velocity and accuracy of four different M855 clones currently available on the commercial market. The M855 clones examined for this article are shown below.

IMI M855





Winchester Ranger M855






Prvi Partizan M855





American Eagle XM855






The obvious difference between the projectiles used in M855 and M193 clones is the weight difference of 7 grains, 62 grains versus 55 grains. The M855 projectile has a FMJ construction but also has a steel “penetrator” in the ogive section of the bullet. This makes the projectile unusually long for its weight, as well as giving it a lower specific gravity. Most, but not all, of the M855 clones have the tip of the bullet painted green.

M855 versus M193 projectiles.





The 62 grain M855 projectile is actually longer than the heavier 69 grain Sierra MatchKing.





Note the steel penetrator in the sectioned projectile below.





Chronographing of the M855 clones was conducted as described in part one, using the same 20” M16A2 barrel. The results are shown in the table below.





Accuracy testing of the M855 clones was also conducted exactly as described in part one, using the same free-floated 16” Colt HBAR fired from my bench-rest set-up at 100 yards. As previously stated, I chose a chrome lined, NATO chambered barrel as the accuracy test vehicle as this is the type of barrel that these clone loads are most likely to be fired from. It is sometimes possible to obtain slightly better accuracy from mil-spec/NATO pressure loads by firing them from an AR-15 that has a stainless steel match-grade barrel with a hybrid chamber such as the Noveske NMmod0 chamber or the Wylde chamber for examples; but you're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.




Three 10-shot groups of each load were fired in a row with the results shown in the table below.






Here are the previous accuracy results of the M193 clones along with the M855 clone results for comparison.





MK262 and MK318 Mod 0 thrown into the mix for additional comparison.





....
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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 10:46:58 PM EST
Yet another shameless attempt to bring objectivity to ammo assessment.

Great stuff! Kinda reassuring. Thanks!

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 3:40:38 PM EST
Impressive test!

"The 16” Colt HBAR is one of the most accurate “off the shelf” chrome-lined, NATO chambered AR-15 barrels that I’ve evaluated"

I have one with a 1/9 twist but it was not freefloated. Have you shot 75 grain ammo with yours, and how does it do? (I'm thinking about freefloating that sucker, because I know that Colt barrels are underrated)


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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 6:25:16 PM EST
Molon,
Simply put, your reviews rock! Your selfless efforts to bring us all real deal data we can use to make informed decisions is way worth the price of admission. Contributions like yours help make Arfcom the awesome site that it is. Thank You Sir!

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 10:21:00 PM EST
Molon, you should compile all your reports on various ammo and publish a book! Thanks.

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 11:47:08 PM EST
Great info. Thanks. It is interesting how similar all four loads are. I would have expected one to really stand out above the others. All good ammo it appears.
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Link Posted: 9/28/2010 1:42:31 AM EST
Once again, thanh you for your hard work.

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Link Posted: 9/28/2010 10:59:19 AM EST
After reading this post yesterday. I was down in the man cave going through my ammo inventory and look what I found.
Twin Cities Army Ammunition Plant M193 ammo Made in 1967. I think I'm going to keep and not shoot this ammo. I also found about 20 rds loose ammo dating from 70-79 M193



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Link Posted: 9/28/2010 11:34:53 AM EST
Thanks for the great review.

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Link Posted: 9/28/2010 11:55:57 AM EST
Molon, much thanks for your continued contributions!!

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Link Posted: 9/28/2010 12:06:11 PM EST
Excellent. Thanks for taking the time to write it out for us.
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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 2:19:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2010 2:20:37 PM EST by Molon]
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Molon, you should compile all your reports on various ammo and publish a book! Thanks.


Hmmm . . .






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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 2:45:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2010 2:45:51 PM EST by edwin907]
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Molon, you should compile all your reports on various ammo and publish a book! Thanks.


Hmmm . . .


http://www.box.net/shared/static/dzt2hes8h8.jpg



.....


Molon, you might check out Amazon.com’s CreateSpace.
This allows it to be downloaded to e-book readers.
I know nothing personally of it, but have heard good reviews of the service which would require a minimum investment to actually publish.


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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 2:46:35 PM EST


I'd buy it


As always, excellent report. By the way, that wouldn't happen to be the Island Lake rifle range, would it?

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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 3:38:49 PM EST
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel
Originally Posted By NoCharge4Awesome:
hey any of you other pussies want to go out shoe shopping together too? maybe do a little manicure while we are at it...
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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 4:06:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


You’ll probably appreciate this. Using the Prvi M193 ammunition, I did an accuracy comparison firing the 55 grain FMJ load from both a 1:9” twist Colt HBAR and a 1:7” twist Colt HBAR. Four 10-shot groups were fired from each barrel from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards. The groups from each barrel were over-layed to form 40-shot composite groups. The mean radii of the composite groups were nearly identical.





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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 4:14:16 PM EST
Bookmarked...
What is your budget, and what do you want to do with the rifle? These are the questions you must answer before purchasing anything.
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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 4:25:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


You’ll probably appreciate this. Using the Prvi M193 ammunition, I did an accuracy comparison firing the 55 grain FMJ load from both a 1:9” twist Colt HBAR and a 1:7” twist Colt HBAR. Four 10-shot groups were fired from each barrel from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards. The groups from each barrel were over-layed to form 40-shot composite groups. The mean radii of the composite groups were nearly identical.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/o03ufeured.jpg


GASP!!! You mean, the Internet lied?!?!?! Well what do you know...evidence over "common knowledge."

Thanks for the specific and detailed experiment to demonstrate "AR Fallacy #3: 55 grain bullets fail in a 1:7 barrel."
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Link Posted: 10/2/2010 8:10:03 PM EST
Thank you for the wealth of information you provide to this board! You really help to de-bunk a lot of internet BS regarding ammo/rifle performance.
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Link Posted: 10/3/2010 11:27:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2010 11:28:02 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Originally Posted By GHPorter:

GASP!!! You mean, the Internet lied?!?!?! Well what do you know...evidence over "common knowledge."

Thanks for the specific and detailed experiment to demonstrate "AR Fallacy #3: 55 grain bullets fail in a 1:7 barrel."



I remember shooting 55gr ammo exclusively through my Colt AR15A2 with it's 1/7 barrel back in the early 90s. That WAS the heaviest ammo available anywhere locally unless you paid BIG bucks for Canadian SS109/M855 or Samson IMI 70gr FMJ.


And yet I've been told repeatedly on this board that that's not possible.
Originally Posted By NoCharge4Awesome:
hey any of you other pussies want to go out shoe shopping together too? maybe do a little manicure while we are at it...
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Link Posted: 10/3/2010 11:31:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


You’ll probably appreciate this. Using the Prvi M193 ammunition, I did an accuracy comparison firing the 55 grain FMJ load from both a 1:9” twist Colt HBAR and a 1:7” twist Colt HBAR. Four 10-shot groups were fired from each barrel from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards. The groups from each barrel were over-layed to form 40-shot composite groups. The mean radii of the composite groups were nearly identical.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/o03ufeured.jpg




The particular Colt H-bar I had was SCARY accurate with commercial 55gr like PMC and Black Hills.

I'm not a Colt kool-aid drinker but their chrome lined barrels generally have outstanding accuracy well above most manufacturers.
Originally Posted By NoCharge4Awesome:
hey any of you other pussies want to go out shoe shopping together too? maybe do a little manicure while we are at it...
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Link Posted: 10/3/2010 11:58:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:

GASP!!! You mean, the Internet lied?!?!?! Well what do you know...evidence over "common knowledge."

Thanks for the specific and detailed experiment to demonstrate "AR Fallacy #3: 55 grain bullets fail in a 1:7 barrel."



I remember shooting 55gr ammo exclusively through my Colt AR15A2 with it's 1/7 barrel back in the early 90s. That WAS the heaviest ammo available anywhere locally unless you paid BIG bucks for Canadian SS109/M855 or Samson IMI 70gr FMJ.


And yet I've been told repeatedly on this board that that's not possible.
I have never had the time or money needed to do half of the tests and experiments I read about here. But I do have the time to read those posts and evaluate them. Solid evidence always beats opinion. Unfortunately lots of people have no idea how to evaluate a post for opinion versus evidence, let alone quality of evidence. Molon's high quality experiments, backed up by excellent documentation and well worded statements about the limits of his techniques and measurements, are an excellent example of just plain good science and good research. Somehow we need to drive a stake into the heart of this falsehood, but that takes educating a lot of people who are nice and content with their ignorance.
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Link Posted: 10/3/2010 12:22:58 PM EST
great info
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Link Posted: 10/3/2010 12:35:44 PM EST
Great information as always Molon!!
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Link Posted: 10/4/2010 12:18:27 PM EST
Nice
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Link Posted: 10/4/2010 1:23:31 PM EST
Great info, and I have a request.

When you test the commercial, would it be possible to pull a
couple of rounds from the lots and weigh the powder charges?

Just curious. And thanks again for the quality stuff.

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Link Posted: 10/4/2010 1:28:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By blwallace5:
Great information as always Molon!!

I love reading his posts on ammunition.
I hate people who post pictures of their pistols with the slide locked back.

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Link Posted: 10/4/2010 6:15:01 PM EST
You sir are a great asset to this site. Thank you!

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Link Posted: 10/5/2010 3:11:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


I had never heard that one..... And I've been here a long time..

I do know that 62 grn out of a 1/12 is a no go...


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Link Posted: 10/9/2010 12:18:41 AM EST
I wonder how the 1-7 twist barrel performs against the 1-9 twist barrel with 55 grain ammo at 300 yards.....

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Link Posted: 10/9/2010 12:26:23 AM EST
Very awesome!
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Link Posted: 10/15/2010 5:46:50 PM EST

good stuff. i have a stash of the prvi m193.

thanks molon

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Link Posted: 10/15/2010 6:29:53 PM EST
Great information there Molon. This is stuff I will keep in mind when I finally get my ARs finished. Keep up the great work, not to mention thank you for taking the time to do the research.
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Link Posted: 10/15/2010 7:37:33 PM EST
What about Centurion M193? I've been shooting it for several years in AR clones and A SAIGA 223. Zero FTEs, or FTFs. Seems as accurate as LC/Federal M193. It is made by a US outfit that manufactures frangible ammo for DOD use in training.

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Link Posted: 10/15/2010 8:21:44 PM EST
Outstanding job Molon..Your time and effort are much appreciated.
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Link Posted: 10/17/2010 5:31:47 AM EST
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. Very well done! Thank you!

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Link Posted: 10/17/2010 6:25:26 AM EST
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.

General education should not be mere training of the hands to work, but training of the mind to properly reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php
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Link Posted: 10/17/2010 11:25:30 AM EST
Thanks again for the hard work!
The voices in my head told me to clean the guns, but I already did that...
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Link Posted: 10/17/2010 11:26:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


I had never heard that one..... And I've been here a long time..

I do know that 62 grn out of a 1/12 is a no go...



Do you visit GD much?

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Link Posted: 10/18/2010 5:19:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2010 5:19:47 PM EST by Sleepy1988]
Nevermind, wrong thread.
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Link Posted: 10/18/2010 9:17:34 PM EST
Awesome post! Thanks for the objective analysis... fact is always better than an opinion.

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Link Posted: 10/18/2010 10:30:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dru:
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


I had never heard that one..... And I've been here a long time..

I do know that 62 grn out of a 1/12 is a no go...



Do you visit GD much?


People in the tech forums are still talking 1 - 2 MOA with this type of ammo


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Link Posted: 10/18/2010 10:57:50 PM EST
Did you measure velocity withe the 16" barrel?


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Link Posted: 10/19/2010 6:34:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dru:
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


I had never heard that one..... And I've been here a long time..

I do know that 62 grn out of a 1/12 is a no go...



Do you visit GD much?



You must not know much about the development of the SS109 round....

Dru
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Link Posted: 10/21/2010 8:58:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2010 9:03:06 AM EST by Dru]
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Originally Posted By Dru:
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Wait, the internet already told me you cant shoot 55 grain ammo out of a 1/7 M16A2 barrel


I had never heard that one..... And I've been here a long time..

I do know that 62 grn out of a 1/12 is a no go...



Do you visit GD much?



You must not know much about the development of the SS109 round....


I guess not...

Feel free to educate me!



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Link Posted: 10/21/2010 12:21:21 PM EST
Who says you can't shoot 55grn out of a 1/7 barrel?

"Marines pull duty in Heaven. Who else would God trust?" Kevin Waruinge, KIA 8-3-05

Thanks to Jaqufrost for the TM.

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Link Posted: 11/14/2010 11:30:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By thebufenator:
Did you measure velocity withe the 16" barrel?



In-spec M193 clones tend to run around 3100 - 3125 FPS from a 16" chrome lined, NATO chambered barrel.

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Link Posted: 11/14/2010 2:00:54 PM EST
Question.

The prvi partisan M193 tested here is different from the Monarch red box 223 (made by prvi also)?

Made by the same people, packaged differently.
"Marines pull duty in Heaven. Who else would God trust?" Kevin Waruinge, KIA 8-3-05

Thanks to Jaqufrost for the TM.

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Link Posted: 11/14/2010 7:00:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By fadedsun:
Who says you can't shoot 55grn out of a 1/7 barrel?



Alot of guys think a 45 to 55gr bullet will be less accurate in a 1/7 twist

Ive had good luck with 45gr WIN in my lmt M4`s
Even bought some hornady 53 Match w/c & hornady SP 53grvmaxto try out
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Link Posted: 11/14/2010 7:36:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By fadedsun:
Who says you can't shoot 55grn out of a 1/7 barrel?



Alot of guys think a 45 to 55gr bullet will be less accurate in a 1/7 twist

Ive had good luck with 45gr WIN in my lmt M4`s
Even bought some hornady 53 Match w/c & hornady SP 53grvmaxto try out


I used to shoot a lot of 45grn WWB jhp 223 out of my LMT 1-7 twist m4... no problems. It was cheap and available.
"Marines pull duty in Heaven. Who else would God trust?" Kevin Waruinge, KIA 8-3-05

Thanks to Jaqufrost for the TM.

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