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MajorAR
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Posted: 11/9/2009 12:17:26 PM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2009 2:37:20 PM by MajorAR]
Well....we've all heard about it. After turning over with the outgoing unit here in Afghanistan, I was going through our Ammunition Supply Point (ASP) and happen to come upon thousands of rounds of this stuff. It's all linked in 200rnd SAWS boxes. It does indeed have a black tip. I took the metal jacket off the projo...and low and behold the inner portion of the round has a much larger steel "penetrator" inside compared to the M855. The round itself is the same length ast M855....just completely different inside.

Pictures to follow in a few hours.

Maj
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes; If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all. - US Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leader
reelserious
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Posted: 11/9/2009 12:35:24 PM
want
scharfshutze06
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Posted: 11/9/2009 1:03:24 PM
DROOL....
osprey21
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Posted: 11/9/2009 2:16:20 PM
Until you get your pics up.......




Servitude to the State isn't going to be my way of life.
phoenix27
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Posted: 11/9/2009 6:19:36 PM
Maj-
Way to go, thanks for the info. Hey, be safe out there and thanks for your service. My oldest just got back from flying in his PaveHawk over in the sandbox and there were many sleepless nights until he made it back. See if you can liberate some of that black tip stuff...or better yet, use it on the BGs
TaylorWSO
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Posted: 11/10/2009 1:38:33 AM
tag
I use a flamethrower for home defense, it always beats the racking of the 870 and the "superior" wounding effects of the AR
MajorAR
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Posted: 11/10/2009 1:15:17 PM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2009 1:43:36 PM by MajorAR]
Who can I email pics to? I need someone to post pics for me. Our .mil servers won't allow web photo servers.

If someone wants to help out...just email me.

Thanks

ETA: SENT! Thanks Osprey
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes; If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all. - US Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leader
osprey21
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Posted: 11/10/2009 1:25:50 PM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2009 1:49:39 PM by osprey21]

Originally Posted By MajorAR:
Who can I email pics to? I need someone to post pics for me. Our .mil servers won't allow web photo servers.

If someone wants to help out...just email me.

Thanks











Godspeed, my brother.

Semper Fi


Servitude to the State isn't going to be my way of life.
CaptSchofield
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Posted: 11/10/2009 1:43:13 PM
tag
Another load from the floor of the 10th U.S. Cavalry stables
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yzryl556
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Posted: 11/10/2009 2:04:28 PM
thanks major for the pics.... sure looks like a nasty round.......but "me want some"........

stay safe there.......
Audaces fortuna iuvat.
Papi4baby
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Posted: 11/10/2009 2:15:42 PM
Thanks for sharing.
osprey21
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Posted: 11/10/2009 2:21:31 PM
Interesting headstamp on the M995 as well.




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getchevyn
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Posted: 11/10/2009 2:30:51 PM
Range report please.

Stay safe and thanks for serving.
MajorAR
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Posted: 11/10/2009 2:32:52 PM
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Interesting headstamp on the M995 as well.


http://i35.tinypic.com/33afllc.jpg



Yeah...I don't understand the headstamp. Either it read "C8 or CB" then "06". Additional "lines" are pressed into the headstamp as well.

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes; If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all. - US Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leader
SSeric02
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Posted: 11/10/2009 3:47:04 PM
Could be so you can tell the difference from regular ball in the dark.
leid
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Posted: 11/10/2009 3:54:07 PM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2009 7:14:41 PM by leid]
Originally Posted By MajorAR:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Interesting headstamp on the M995 as well.


http://i35.tinypic.com/33afllc.jpg



Yeah...I don't understand the headstamp. Either it read "C8 or CB" then "06". Additional "lines" are pressed into the headstamp as well.



Major,
I can help with a little history. The Swedish rounds that were adopted by the U.S. military as M993 & M995 were developed by Forenede FabriksVerken (FFV in Karlsborg, Sweden)) in the late 80s. The earliest headstamps are "070" until '90 then "FFV" in '91. FFV merged with Carl Gustav/Bofors in '91-'92 who started headstamping the 5.56mm & 7.62mm AP cartridges "CG". Raufoss of MK 211 MOD 0 .50 Cal HEIAP fame also merged into the CG/ Bofors group in 1993. Then Carl Gustav/Bofors and several other Nordic munitions manufacturer's all merged into NAMMO in '98. NAMMO kept the "CG" headstamp. The U.S. type classified 7.62MM M993 AP cartridge 02/16/96 and 5.56mm M995 AP cartridge 03/29/96. What you have is M995 manufactured by NAMMO in 2006. I would think that the lines on the cartridge heads are probably part of a NAMMO quality control system similar to the SCAMP dots on LC M855 cartridge heads, but don't have a definite answer yet.
Best of luck putting them where they belong!

Look for AA69 (p/n 12991890) for M995 on 10rd strippers. It is fairly new.
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MajorAR
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Posted: 11/10/2009 10:44:40 PM
Originally Posted By leid:
Originally Posted By MajorAR:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Interesting headstamp on the M995 as well.


http://i35.tinypic.com/33afllc.jpg



Yeah...I don't understand the headstamp. Either it read "C8 or CB" then "06". Additional "lines" are pressed into the headstamp as well.



Major,
I can help with a little history. The Swedish rounds that were adopted by the U.S. military as M993 & M995 were developed by Forenede FabriksVerken (FFV in Karlsborg, Sweden)) in the late 80s. The earliest headstamps are "070" until '90 then "FFV" in '91. FFV merged with Carl Gustav/Bofors in '91-'92 who started headstamping the 5.56mm & 7.62mm AP cartridges "CG". Raufoss of MK 211 MOD 0 .50 Cal HEIAP fame also merged into the CG/ Bofors group in 1993. Then Carl Gustav/Bofors and several other Nordic munitions manufacturer's all merged into NAMMO in '98. NAMMO kept the "CG" headstamp. The U.S. type classified 7.62MM M993 AP cartridge 02/16/96 and 5.56mm M995 AP cartridge 03/29/96. What you have is M995 manufactured by NAMMO in 2006. I would think that the lines on the cartridge heads are probably part of a NAMMO quality control system similar to the SCAMP dots on LC M855 cartridge heads, but don't have a definite answer yet.
Best of luck putting them where they belong!

Look for AA69 (p/n 12991890) for M995 on 10rd strippers. It is fairly new.


leid,

Thanks for info. Just to show you how much I know about it. You are an "Ammo Jedi." I'll keep an eye open....I'm also being told by our Bn Gunner that the Black TIp isn't to be shot in M4's for some reason. He wasn't sure. Maybe has to do something with barrel wear? It's only to be shot in our SAWs. Does this make sense? It doesn't to me. Seems the jacket on the round itself would interact with our barrels the same as the M855 round. Strange.

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes; If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all. - US Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leader
SSeric02
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Posted: 11/10/2009 10:53:08 PM
If that was true the AA69 DODIC wouldn't come on strippers. God bless Gunners, but they're not immune from bad gouge.
Sinister
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Posted: 11/10/2009 10:56:41 PM
M995 is certified to be shot through the M4 and M16 as well as the SAW.

It groups half the size of M855.

Each bullet weighs a nominal 53-55 grains and moves out the same speed as M193/M16A1 Ball.

Shoot Hajjis.
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Posted: 11/10/2009 11:00:47 PM
Southernman077
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Posted: 11/10/2009 11:22:49 PM
Be safe, and thanks for thinking of us and giving us some interesting ammo pr0n to look at. Now we need a terminal ballistics report from the field.
Unless you are swimming or on fire, there is no such thing as too much ammo!
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Posted: 11/11/2009 12:26:48 AM
Originally Posted By Southernman077:
Be safe, and thanks for thinking of us and giving us some interesting ammo pr0n to look at. Now we need a terminal ballistics report from the field.


This.

Thanks, man!
txgp17
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Posted: 11/11/2009 1:01:23 AM
I don't guess there's a snow balls chance in hell that we'll ever be able to purchase the projectiles.
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yekimak
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Posted: 11/11/2009 1:22:59 AM
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
Originally Posted By Southernman077:
Be safe, and thanks for thinking of us and giving us some interesting ammo pr0n to look at. Now we need a terminal ballistics report from the field.


This.

Thanks, man!


and a from me.

Many, many thanks Sir.
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leid
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Posted: 11/11/2009 1:47:35 AM
[Last Edit: 11/15/2009 9:13:46 AM by leid]
Originally Posted By MajorAR:
Originally Posted By leid:
Originally Posted By MajorAR:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Interesting headstamp on the M995 as well.


http://i35.tinypic.com/33afllc.jpg



Yeah...I don't understand the headstamp. Either it read "C8 or CB" then "06". Additional "lines" are pressed into the headstamp as well.



Major,
I can help with a little history. The Swedish rounds that were adopted by the U.S. military as M993 & M995 were developed by Forenede FabriksVerken (FFV in Karlsborg, Sweden)) in the late 80s. The earliest headstamps are "070" until '90 then "FFV" in '91. FFV merged with Carl Gustav/Bofors in '91-'92 who started headstamping the 5.56mm & 7.62mm AP cartridges "CG". Raufoss of MK 211 MOD 0 .50 Cal HEIAP fame also merged into the CG/ Bofors group in 1993. Then Carl Gustav/Bofors and several other Nordic munitions manufacturer's all merged into NAMMO in '98. NAMMO kept the "CG" headstamp. The U.S. type classified 7.62MM M993 AP cartridge 02/16/96 and 5.56mm M995 AP cartridge 03/29/96. What you have is M995 manufactured by NAMMO in 2006. I would think that the lines on the cartridge heads are probably part of a NAMMO quality control system similar to the SCAMP dots on LC M855 cartridge heads, but don't have a definite answer yet.
Best of luck putting them where they belong!

Look for AA69 (p/n 12991890) for M995 on 10rd strippers. It is fairly new.


leid,

Thanks for info. Just to show you how much I know about it. You are an "Ammo Jedi." I'll keep an eye open....I'm also being told by our Bn Gunner that the Black TIp isn't to be shot in M4's for some reason. He wasn't sure. Maybe has to do something with barrel wear? It's only to be shot in our SAWs. Does this make sense? It doesn't to me. Seems the jacket on the round itself would interact with our barrels the same as the M855 round. Strange.



Major,
Email NAMMO to get it straight from them but I have never heard of any restriction on M16/M4 use. AFAIK the M995 jacket is Tombac soft steel just like the M993 7.62mm AP rounds packaged in boxes for rifle use (AA03 p/n 12972339) as well as on links. Virtually all LC M856 tracer & most current LC M80 7.62mm ball also uses soft steel jacketed bullets. And both these types can be fired in rifle barrels without undo wear especially in a chrome lined mil-spec barrel. M995 is indeed reported to be very accurate as stated above. A range session with an accurized SPR would be very enlightening. Another rumor circulated is that M995 penetrates armor better at longer distance, which I do not understand unless the tungsten penetrator is fragmenting on impact with armor at higher velocity. That is above my pay grade and is yet another question for NAMMO.


Here is a sectioned M995 cartridge with a little better view of the Tombac steel jacket and the tungsten penetrator core. The core is extremely hard at a reported 1450 (Hv) but it is never in contact with the rifling. I just don't see any potential problem like the USMC reportedly experienced with WCC 7.62 SLAP.


EDIT: SEE CORRECTIONS IN LATER POST: M995 BULLET JACKET IS NON-MAGNETIC GILDED METAL, NOT STEEL
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Posted: 11/11/2009 10:21:24 AM
Great detail on the background and some pics as well. I've got some friends who are over there in AFG right now and they come across it from time to time, mostly in the SAW boxes. It really, in their opinion, does not do much difference on wound potential than the M855 rd will do. It just goes right through something until it hits bone or whatever, and keeps on going. They are having more succes on putting people on the ground with 1st rd hits with the Mk 262 Mod 1, but the AP is good for vehicles, barriers, etc. And, if Hassim happens to be wearing a vest with plates in it, at least he would get his bell rung when this hits him square in the chest. Overall, a good thread, as this is the most detailed info I've seen in awhile on the subject rd.
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