I hate to be the one that says it but the majority of people these days are not naturally good folks... there I said it! If we have an extended break down of local government including law enforcement, it would probably only take a few hours for the zombies (bad guys) to come out. First it would manifest itself with them looting stores that are easy targets. Amazing how folks feel no guilt in looting when they realize there is no law enforcement to punish them from breaking the rules. That would probably last a couple days. After that, they would start going after harder targets such as sporting goods stores. Once better armed and organized, the zombies would go after hardened targets such as jewelry stores, banks, etc. After a week or so, the "zombies" would start filtering out to working their way to neighborhoods to find easy pickings. Initially, I would envision extortion techniques such as going door to door and collecting cash and jewelry in exchange for "protection". Homes that don't agree to play by the rules get torched to the ground. Would not take too long before the zombies decide to speed things up and just loot and pillage thru neighborhoods.

Zombies would probably start naturally organizing into loosely organized gangs that control neighborhoods arming themselves along the way. I'd say in the matter of a month, if some form of law and order wasn't restored, things would get really really bad. A large group of well armed zombies would be almost impossible to stop unless good folks also group together for their protection. So what does this have to do with ammo? This could be one reason people are willing to buy ammo at crazy high prices.

I totally agree that we are our own worst enemy in this environment, and I too have been buying my share of decent ammo at stupid prices...PMC for $0.4175 per round (shipped, mind you) makes Daddy want to cry.  With that said, its a matter of practicality.  I love to go dump 300-500 rounds every so often and there is ZERO guarantee that it will be there with which to resupply tomorrow.  It got scarcer and scarcer under GWB the "pro gun" Pres, why do we think it gets un-scarcer under an anti-gun Pres?  This is not an OMG BHO is taking my ammo post, by the way.

If the ammo distributors are smarter than I am, then they are sitting on trillions of rounds and will continue to dole them out a 1k case at a time for max profit.  I just don't think they are...but feel free to contradict.

AMMO TO GO UPDATE AND NEGATIVE FEEDBACK!

I ordered 10 boxes of Hornady 5.56 LE 75s online April 2 and got the order confirmation immediately. I received an email saying orders would be delayed 4 to 5 workinging days etc. April 3. The ship notification from UPS April 6. Hmmm, only 1 pound? Ammo To Go sends email today, April 8, saying they were only sending 2 of the 10 boxes ordered and crediting my charge for an amount that raise my cost per box from $20.51/box to $24.87! I think I should have been notified of the change prior to shipment and given the opportunity to cancel the order. Am I wrong?

This is bad business in my opinion and I am wondering if I should just refuse shipment when it comes.

Any opinions out there? I would greatly appreciate some!

Dr. Sigman Froid

I made an odd decision this week. I decided that the only way the prices would come down would be to stop buying it for a while. So I did. I actually stopped buying ammo.

It hurts really bad..

I have a small necessity sized stockpile so I feel shtf safe. But as for last years weekly range trips? I think Its going to be bicycle rides and hiking for a while.

On the positive side, this should give the ammo companies enough capital to invest in bigger production capabilities. So, if it ever does slow down the ammo might be cheaper than it was before this epic buy out.

They know the slow down is coming, and when it does there will be less demand than before.  The current administration is talking about pulling us out of everywhere (as time and conditions allow) and I expect them to slash the defense budget to help pay for their social programs.  The people panic buying lots of ammo now will have plenty to shoot through before they need to buy again and even then many may have switched to reloading most of their rounds..  Based on this they are NOT increasing production unless it was something they needed to do before this all started.  It takes many years of production to recoup the costs of increasing capacity and they are not willing to risk that much expenditure with the current uncertain environment.

They need a better inventory system.  My ENTIRE order of 5.56 TAP was canceled (a few months back) since they were out by the time they got to my order.  Their inventory system should be able to cope with this.

Assuming that you are fine with the ammo at the purchase price but not at the adjusted price I would send them an email asking for the $4 or so back for each of the boxes they DID ship.  You purchased it expecting a lower price based on volume and it is not YOUR fault that their crappy inventory system let you order more than they had available to ship.  The purchase price of $20.51 should be honored, and if you have a copy of the invoice showing that amount per box then dispute the difference with your CC company.

Your other option is to just refuse shipment, but good luck with that.  Odds are UPS will put it on your door step and run off before you can protest.

I don't know, in reality it will take more than a couple years to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Plus you have to consider how many NEW RIFLES and shooters there are. All of those folks will need ammo even after the wars end.

I don't know how long it takes for ammo and component makers to recoupe the cost of buying new equipment, but if its less than 6 months (assuming you have unlimited demand) its a good investment. Because for the foreseeable two years there will continue to be nearly unlimited demand for ammo and gun parts. If the ammo companies after two years no longer have demand, well then they just turn off a couple machines. they will have already payed them off and made profit, so who cares.

So you are saying there is collusion amongst the ammo distributors?  I don't think that is a reasonable conclusion as it is both uncommon and highly illegal.  If there are extra margins to be had due to a supply shortage, which there are, distributors have every incentive possible to push product as soon as they can get it and get more on order.

They did the exact same thing to me! I ordered about 150$ worth of Hollow Point 45acp ammo. They charged me and shipped only half the order without even notifying me. Then after it shipped, they sent me an email saying that they couldnt get the inventory they expected and would credit my card back. I would have just canceled the order! Shipping for ammo is really only worth it when you buy large amounts, otherwise it raises the price per box significantly.

Ammotogo I placed an order of Hornady 5.56 and a bunch of gold dots a month or 2 ago... for both my 9 mm and 40 s&w...
a couple days later they emailed me they didn't have the 9 mm... and would recredit my card... I asked them to substitute more 5.56 hornady tap with no problem... received 10 boxes or so extra of hornady

"So you are saying there is collusion amongst the ammo distributors? I don't think that is a reasonable conclusion as it is both uncommon and highly illegal. If there are extra margins to be had due to a supply shortage, which there are, distributors have every incentive possible to push product as soon as they can get it and get more on order."

No I think just the opposite.  We are hording it so much that its become "banned" without a ban in place.  My statement about the distributors was that they are not sitting on trillions of cases, they are selling it as fast as they can get it.  Its rough out there!

Yep ..................................People are Buying " CASES " of Ammo now instead of " BOXES " !!!

What we have to remember is that there are alot of new gun owners out there,and they need ammunition.

Ever since the election there has been a run on magazines & ammunition, alot of this is due to new gun ownership,  some of it is due to panic buying, and add to the fray, the regular customer who buys small but steady amounts of ammunition weekly .

This is what makes for a shortage of supply! I wish I had my crystal ball so I could tell you the future, but It's in the shop getting polished right now!

My guess is that supply should be back to normal within 6 months as long as BHO & Company don't threaten the industry.

Thanks to all that commented on my first and last Ammo To Go experience. I did send them an email protesting the treatment I got and never got a reply back. Their freight gimic is pretty slick since they overcharge for freight as it is and have the rocks to ask for insurance. I fell for the insurance since I figured I had ordered a couple of hundred dollars worth of stuff that probably had a high probability of being "lost". So I insured $200 worth but received $50 worth. They could have at least credited the shipping and insurance difference without being asked but they didn't. They could have have offered a coupon or something for the trouble, but they didn't. They failed the test! Small potatoes! I wonder what they cut off the boxes with an exacto knife?

One other observation: I almost didn't buy from them on the basis of the "Lets See What We have Here" that shows up at the top of their product list. This often times is the sign of some Chinese influence whether it be an investor, partner, webmaster, or dare I say it, counterfeiter. Those folks let nothing stand in the way of "commerce". They will put arsenic in your fake Geritol and have no remorse!

Time to move on!

Dr. Froid

Back in '03 when I got back in the market for toys there has been a steady increase in ammo, the price for m193 was 79/500. I was able to get some rorg at $129/720 in '05. With the current trends I forsee the prices continuing to climb at the current rate, a rough 20%/year. If BHO gets involved it will probably double.
I shoot 22lr now and am stocking on my new 6.8 and .40 cals.
RLTW

I spoke with one of the Ammo Manufacturers today. He stated "Yes components have gone up but this is NOT is driving his prices up. He is raising prices to try and stop the panic buying."  Yep we just keep this up and all prophecies about 2 dollar a round ammo will come true. Needlessly of course. Everyone get a grip.......Please... I just like to shoot.

Why in the world would a Capitalist company want to restrict their output and their profits? Why would they care what the reasons are for buyers to buy their product... sorry... I don't buy his story. He is raising his prices to raise his profits because he can... and he told you that feel good story as cover.

FS

Well the "Story" is true. Don't call me a liar. He is in business to please his long term customers so he will always have the demand. This crap will stop sooner or later and it is not the first time it has happened, if you are old enough to remember.

I never called you a liar, I would have no reason to. I still say this guy is not telling YOU the entire truth. I own three businesses and I also was in the gun business for ten years in the 70's and 80's. I know how businesses operate... especially those that make a profit. No way anyone would run their business that way... not unless they did not care about making money. Think what you want to... but I know what it entails owning your own business and what it takes to succeed... and have for over 34 years now.

FS

People are just flat out not going to stop.  Think about it, the price we've been paying for standard issue ammo (XM-193 and 855) is absurd.  This ammo is almost worthless in a competitive sense.  Its inaccurate as shit and that is the bottom line.  Bend over and pay this price for crap.  Sorry if I offended anyone, but it is true.

you can't spell conspiracy without piracy.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127039443

Poor bidder......maybe someone should tell him you can find that at walmart for 15 bucks a box....


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=126945706

And really.  Come on, are people THAT desperate?

I wanted to expand on a post I just saw about reloading components.  My perspective is from the west coast.  Your area could be different.

The primers are the worst offender to be sure.  I can't speak for the whole country but pretty much all primers are 100% gone on the west coast and on the internet.  Permanently.  No one has them, no one has an ETA on them, and very few will take backorders.  You are crazy if you DO backorder because they can't tell you how many  months it might be.

Powder has gotten steadily worse and is now pretty much 100% unavailable locally.  There is no longer anywhere within a hundred miles of me that gets enough to mention.  One or two bottles left on store shelves of types no one uses.  Everything to load 223 or pistol is gone with a "don't ask me when" attitude from the retailers.  They each get a shipment on monday or tuesday morning and tell anyone who asks that they should be there if they want anything.  They are right, it's gone in under half an hour from the first few people in line.

Lead for reloading is only marginally better.  Good luck getting any 223 55gr FMJ right now at anything other than ripoff price.  And 62gr?  Don't even bother looking it's all gone.

Ammo is gone in this neck of the woods also.  ALL AMMO.  There is no longer any on the shelves except odd cals or some expensive 30-06 that no one needs more of.  Also, ALL .22LR is GONE here.  Long shelves where 22 is normally stacked high have been empty for weeks.  There is none to be had anywhere.  Same story.  Shipment comes in one day a week and is gone in under an hour.

To be completely fair, there may be one gun shop down the road that has a few cans of outrageously priced 7.62, but that's it.

Oh, and when was the last anybody here saw ANY 00 buck on the shelf let alone a bulk pack?   It's been many months here.  That doesn't make sense either.  No one shoots a whole lot of that for practice or fun and how much of it do you really need to store?

That brings me to 22LR.  There's no QUANTITY making it to shelves at all and no relief on the horizon.  It's amazing seeing empty shevles of 22 week after week.   I'm getting concerned at this point that perhaps it's not just 22 hoarding that's the problem.  It may be that with ammo prices as high as they are that virtually everyone is practicing, varmint hunting, and just playing with 22 exclusively and not shooting the bigger cals.  Which could mean it'll never catch up again until the manufacturers become positive of the increased need and actually increase production capacity.  That could take a very long time.  Which of them would want to take the risk on the huge investment if this is only temporary?

I completely understand why this is happening and agree with putting some stuff away but we should be seeing this loosen up a bit.  Amazingly, it's only getting worse.  I really would like to do some actual shooting this year but right at this moment it's hard to call that a good idea as I literally can not replace most of what I shoot.  I mean, reloading components are just unavailalbe?  None?  For months?  Crazy.

I think this has become a positive feedback loop phenomenon.  Ammo supply begins to dry up for military rifle calibers and the price goes up.  This encourages people to buy more in an attempt to lock in at a lower prices, which further increases the price.  Raw materials like copper and brass also skyrocket in price before the economic crash, further contributing to higher and higher prices.  Then we have a anti-gun president elected and people begin a frenzy of buying and hoarding ammo.  Demand increases and supply does not.  Yet again, prices go up and up.  Barring an outright government ban on ammo, which I think is unlikely, this bubble will eventually pop and the prices of ammo and reloading components will come back down.  I'm just not going to be buying any large amounts of ammo until things settle down.  That unfortunately, might be a few years from now, but I'm prepared to wait.

I'm sorry to hear that. I've done business with them in the past without problems, but their prices are slowly following the CTD trend.






 

They were almost my exclusive source for ammo last year.

However, they currently are offering 5.56 (XM855 and Q3131A1) and 7.62 for 600-700 per thousand.  NO THANKS.

I think ammo prices like this may be here to stay though, so from now on I think I'll just stick to buying components and rolling my own.  I have more than enough SHTF stashed away already anyway.

Dudes a Lier........................ The Ammo companys are in buiseness to MAKE MONEY....................Why would they want to stop Panic Buying !!!

Your not the Lier.............................HE IS !!!

Fear and Greed Have Sales of Guns and Ammo Shooting Up from the WSJ

Anyone wondering why there are ammo and semiauto shortages should read this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123984046627223159.html

I used to be a huge supporter of Surplusammo.com....well until today. Those asshats jacked up the prices of the .22lr ammo 10x! I'm sorry....$499 for 5k??? Are you fuckin serious??? Why do all these great companies have to follow in line with all the other asshats!

If people are buying ammo as an invest, this should tell us something, and prices for the near term will continue to rise. Just like housing did for several years, until it fell through the floor. It will be interesting to see if XM193 is still $14.99 per box in 1-2 years.

We are our own worst enemy. Just before the election in October 2008  XM193 was 6.99 per box, today the same vendor wants $14.99 per box. Everyone is worried the Dems. are going to impose a 500% tax, they don't need to, the panic buying is taking care of this for the gun-grabbers. People are buying ammo for all these new guns that are flying off the shelves. I doubt if most of these new guns owners fire more than a few hundred rounds a year. Think about it, how many people can afford to shoot large quantities when prices are .50 .60 or .75 cents per round.
Sportsman Guide had XM855 a few days ago for $879.00 per 1k, this is no longer listed on their website, must have sold out. If this is not panic buying, I do not know what is?

It must be.  Anyone paying 90 cents around for XM855 is either too rich to care or severely stupid.

Don't know if this was already posted but you want to see outrageous? Check this out.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=WX2&i=84587

Over 90 cents a round after shipping

I received today, 1k of Centurian marked M-193 (loaded to .223 specs I think) from SG that I had ordered back in March... price was $359.99 delivered. Received 1k of LC (Federal) XM193F yesterday from SG, that I had ordered in February... a little over $400.00 delivered.

FS

Yeah, from what I have experienced and heard the centurion is just like PMC so it's loaded to .223 specs, the SAAMI pressures.

I believe that is what I stated. To my knowledge, it is loaded to .223 specs. The price was excellent and I have found it clean ammo and fairly accurate. This is not my first 1k of this ammo.

FS

Oh, as I was, you said "loaded to .223 specs i think", so I figured you hadn't triedout the centurion before

dont worry why do you think it is all out of stock and no backorder??????????
they will find a way to bar code a regulate all sales here real soon and will pass the law so you have to get rid of all your thousands of rounds of ammo stored in the basement or be fined per round.
they are also blending new componets to only have a 1 year shelf life.

they wont ban your guns but you wont be able to feed them soon period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now really why do you think they are saying out of stock and no backorder on so many reloading componets and even loaded factory ammo ???? well the ammo companies are regulated not by concumer needs but it is regulated by the government isnt it???

I wish I could buy some more at that price... but they no longer have the link active. How are prices in your area? It is so high around here that the only place one can afford to buy locally is Academy... when they have it. 99% of my ammo is ordered in.

FS

o...m...g...

BTW- that shelf life rumor is from like 1993.

I do enjoy when the tin foil hatters come on out! It makes me giggle

Now you know that one is supposed to use lead foil!

FS

Does this stuff make anyone else as angry as I am?  I'm angry at the manufacturers for not cranking out enough of it.  I'm angry at the distributors for jacking the prices of it up through the roof.  And I'm angry at myself for not having made the big ammo purchase I was planning a year ago.  Now where the hell did my crystal ball get to....

Only one way to address the issue.  I have stockpiled some and almost stopped shooting.  If my demand stops, it's gotta help drop prices.  
I have noticed a drop in range attendance over the past couple of weeks.  I think others are facing the shortage issue in a similar manner.  
If I ever get my .22 conversion from Spikes, I will play with that some more.  I will keep an eye out for deals, but the current prices are drifting past my taste level.


Only way to fight supply and demand is to just say no.

Department of Duh:

Gee, wonder where on earth that picture could have been taken.

Thanks to all that commented on my first and last Ammo To Go experience. I did send them an email protesting the treatment I got and never got a reply back. Their freight gimic is pretty slick since they overcharge for freight as it is and have the rocks to ask for insurance. I fell for the insurance since I figured I had ordered a couple of hundred dollars worth of stuff that probably had a high probability of being "lost". So I insured $200 worth but received $50 worth. They could have at least credited the shipping and insurance difference without being asked but they didn't. They could have have offered a coupon or something for the trouble, but they didn't. They failed the test! Small potatoes! I wonder what they cut off the boxes with an exacto knife?

One other observation: I almost didn't buy from them on the basis of the "Lets See What We have Here" that shows up at the top of their product list. This often times is the sign of some Chinese influence whether it be an investor, partner, webmaster, or dare I say it, counterfeiter. Those folks let nothing stand in the way of "commerce". They will put arsenic in your fake Geritol and have no remorse!

Time to move on!

Dr. Froid

There is the ever-present box of 22-250. It's at my Wal-Mart too.