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Posted: 11/11/2008 10:36:51 AM EST
I am planning to buy an AR-15 variant but can't decide which caliber to get it in - 5.56 or 6.8 ? The 5.56 is common however I don't think the 6.8 has caught on enough yet. Will it be popular? But the devestating results of the 6.8 are amazing especially after reviewing the taping from the show: Future Weapons where Mack demonstrates the 6.8 round in the LWRC M6 platform. Someone, please help me decide which caliber to get?
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Posted: 11/11/2008 11:04:10 AM EST
Depends on if you want to shoot alot! 6.8 cost more
Im happy with my little 5.56mm/223rem
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Posted: 11/11/2008 11:09:38 AM EST
I'm keeping my caliber's that I have to purchase ammo for to a minimum. For HD/SD the 5.56 round has made a lot of bad guys dead. 6.8 is cool, but until I can buy it at Walmart (aka anywhere) I'm not gonna bother. Right now my primary concern is getting enough that I feel comfortable (yea, like that'll ever happen!), not adding more ammo choices to the mix.

YMMV
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Posted: 11/11/2008 11:10:58 AM EST
Given the election of Our Savior, you need to consider ammunition availability. .223/5.56 will be laying on the ground, 6.8 not so much.
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?

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Posted: 11/11/2008 11:15:05 AM EST
Meh, I'll be the contrarian and say that I'm dumping all my 5.56 stuff in favor of 6.8 as a utility round, and 5.45 as a plinking round.
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Posted: 11/11/2008 12:10:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tromatic:
Given the election of Our Savior, you need to consider ammunition availability. .223/5.56 will be laying on the ground, 6.8 not so much.


Agreed. Additionally, if 5.56 doesn't satisfy you, then 7.62 (X 51, or possibly X 39).

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Posted: 11/11/2008 12:40:44 PM EST
If you want a all around useful rifle that is fun,accurate and somewhat reasonable cost wise to shoot (compared to other rifle rounds) the 5.56 is really got to be your first purchase.

If your first priority is hunting or you foresee zombies coming over the hill 500 or 600 yards away and this rifle is the only one you will have I guess the 6.8 has got to be a consideration.

For most situations even a second or third 5.56 (in some other configuration) will be far more useful than the 6.8.

I own some medium bolt guns so even though I own like 6 Ar's I seem to set a higher priority on more 5.56 stuff than I do on the 6.8
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Posted: 11/11/2008 12:41:04 PM EST
Well......I definitely got a lot of feedback and it seems that the 5.56 will, indeed, be more plentiful and cheaper than the 6.8 right now. (I already have the 7.62 round platform covered. Thanks.) I just want to ensure that my decision won't haunt me down the road someday. I like the 5.56. Having spoken to some " operators " , accuracy seems to be in order with this round or any round. I have never seen nor shot the 6.8 but have heard good things about it.

( Damn that president - elect for making me spend more money when I don't have it ! )

I appreciate all of you for your genuine comments and good luck to all in obtaining that which will be no more.
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Posted: 11/11/2008 1:11:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2008 1:12:40 PM EST by alistaire]
The choice is really between 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO (.308). An AR-10 would look good in your safe.

PS: I didn't see your last post about having 308 covered.
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Posted: 11/13/2008 2:31:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2008 2:31:57 AM EST by 12_gauge]
Much debate has gone on about which one pokes a nastier hole. I propose that NO 1-man portable, shoulder-fired, non explosive projectile (I am sure someone will cite a 101mm recoil-less or somethign stupid and argue with me...) will incapacitate someone IMMEDIATELY without hitting a CNS structure.

A 5.56 to the cerebrospinal region is just as destructive as a 6.8 round. The ONLY argument that can be made for the 6.8 is that the larger round will fragment more and have a better chance of hitting the spinal column from a frontal shot. (or that it will go through glass more reliably, but they make TBBC for that).

Basically I am trying to say that you won't stop someone IMMEDIATELY due to physiological incapacitation unless you hit the CNS and then both rounds will be equal. Ergo, for me, it comes down to ammunition availability.

A hole in the CNS is a hole in the CNS. Anything else requires a 20% total vol. blood-loss to be effetive. Even cutting a limb off would not cause this quick enough to prevent you being shot in return or knifed if the assailant is reasonably near you.

Shot placement shot placement shot placement. How is this achieved? Practice. What does this require? Ammo. Again, 5.56.

Just my .02
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Posted: 11/13/2008 2:39:27 AM EST
I think that 6.8mm SPC is cool too, but it costs 2x as much to shoot compared to 5.56mm ammo for us commoners. I would vote for the 5.56mm stuff for civi use, but 6.8mm ammo for the military, since they can buy whatever they want and this gives our GIs a better edge on the battlefield.
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Posted: 11/13/2008 5:00:04 AM EST
No 6.8 Pmags. I am perfectly happy with my 5.56 LWRC M6. Cheaper ammo. Better ammo availablity. Mags hold more. I can use Pmags. Quieter suppressed. Less recoil.

I will get a 7.62 LWRC SABR eventually and THEN might consider a 6.8 but not untill I have 5.56 and 7.62x51 covered.
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Posted: 11/13/2008 6:41:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2008 6:43:13 AM EST by SnakeLogan]
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Much debate has gone on about which one pokes a nastier hole. I propose that NO 1-man portable, shoulder-fired, non explosive projectile (I am sure someone will cite a 101mm recoil-less or somethign stupid and argue with me...) will incapacitate someone IMMEDIATELY without hitting a CNS structure.

A 5.56 to the cerebrospinal region is just as destructive as a 6.8 round. The ONLY argument that can be made for the 6.8 is that the larger round will fragment more and have a better chance of hitting the spinal column from a frontal shot. (or that it will go through glass more reliably, but they make TBBC for that).

Basically I am trying to say that you won't stop someone IMMEDIATELY due to physiological incapacitation unless you hit the CNS and then both rounds will be equal. Ergo, for me, it comes down to ammunition availability.

A hole in the CNS is a hole in the CNS. Anything else requires a 20% total vol. blood-loss to be effetive. Even cutting a limb off would not cause this quick enough to prevent you being shot in return or knifed if the assailant is reasonably near you.

Shot placement shot placement shot placement. How is this achieved? Practice. What does this require? Ammo. Again, 5.56.

Just my .02


Good points. Which is why the ole fashioned Remington pump action is my go-to weapon if I hear bump in the night. With 9 pellets, 9x the chance of hitting the spine per shot.
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Posted: 11/13/2008 7:03:18 AM EST
use 3&1/2 and you have 18 pellets out of rem 870 super mag
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Posted: 11/13/2008 7:09:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By thumper440:
use 3&1/2 and you have 18 pellets out of rem 870 super mag


+1 and a sore shoulder!

Unless you are swimming or on fire, there is no such thing as too much ammo!
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Posted: 11/13/2008 8:37:23 AM EST
6.8 is great if you can feed it. If I could afford it i would trade most of my 5.56 uppers for 6.8. But... Ammo is harder to find and pay for. I don't regret getting the 5.56. It's always a hard decision every time I get a new upper though.
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Posted: 11/13/2008 12:57:15 PM EST
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Posted: 11/13/2008 2:35:12 PM EST
I was within a single expendable pay check of switching over to the 6.8 but did some more homework before placing the orders. I think the 6.8 loses much of its luster when you start using SP or OTM bullets in the .223/5.56mm. Yes, I know that SP /OTM 6.8's will make a slightly larger wound but IMO it's a diminishing return when you compare the cost and availability of same to .223 expanding loads. Handloaded .223's are a lot cheaper than home brewed 6.8's. There are also a much greater number of choices in brass and bullets. Finally, I'm a proponent of Magpul PMags. They are presently available only in 5.56 NATO.

IMO if you're on any kind of a shooting budget, .223/5.56 is the way to go.
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Posted: 11/13/2008 2:50:17 PM EST
GET BOTH

You can buy a 16" middy RRA 6.8 for $445 shipped
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Posted: 11/13/2008 6:42:12 PM EST
I have both. !6" dpms 6.8 was the orig rifle, added a dpms 5.56 1:9 upper to the kit
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Posted: 11/14/2008 6:54:13 AM EST
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Posted: 11/14/2008 7:00:25 AM EST
I would say get the 5.56mm only beacuse the ammo is cheaper and plentiful. I think the 6.8 is a great round and would love to have one but I don't see the ammo in many places and when I do see it it's usually pricey. I would rather have something I could afford to shoot than something that sits in the safe all of the time.
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Posted: 11/14/2008 7:03:19 AM EST
A few years from now, 5.56 will remain the much easier to obtain ammunition.

However, if you want to reload, both are similar in price for nice components.
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Posted: 11/14/2008 10:38:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/14/2008 10:39:00 AM EST by SewerCow]
Good lord that stuff is expensive. Even Ammo to go doesn't have deals on 6.8
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Posted: 11/14/2008 12:44:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By justbill:
I. I think the 6.8 loses much of its luster when you start using SP or OTM bullets in the .223/5.56mm. Yes, I know that SP /OTM 6.8's will make a slightly larger wound ..


Not only is 6.8 significanly larger, it's a more optimal wound profile (i.e. shorter neck) and more consistant results (far fewer issues with 'fleet yaw') .

6.8 will also still make FBI/IWBA minimum wounds after passing through barriers (including a chest pouch loaded with full AK magazines) something no 5.56 FMJ or OTM round can do.
As far as I'm concerned, FMJ is for paper punching and making military lawyers happy. I'm quite confident in the ability of .223 rounds like Federal Tactical Bonded, TAP Barrier, etc. to penetrate reasonable cover, expand and still provide a serious wound.

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Posted: 11/14/2008 12:53:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By justbill:
I. I think the 6.8 loses much of its luster when you start using SP or OTM bullets in the .223/5.56mm. Yes, I know that SP /OTM 6.8's will make a slightly larger wound ..


Not only is 6.8 significanly larger, it's a more optimal wound profile (i.e. shorter neck) and more consistant results (far fewer issues with 'fleet yaw') .

6.8 will also still make FBI/IWBA minimum wounds after passing through barriers (including a chest pouch loaded with full AK magazines) something no 5.56 FMJ or OTM round can do.


I agree with forest on the 6.8. I would get an LMT CQB MRP (I have two) and you can use both 5.56MM and 6.8SPC. And yes I run SSA 115gr loadings with no over pressure signs.
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Posted: 11/14/2008 1:08:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Tromatic:
Given the election of Our Savior, you need to consider ammunition availability. .223/5.56 will be laying on the ground, 6.8 not so much.


Where are you finding ammo on the ground? Hell I have a hard enough time finding it in the stores let alone on the ground...




From my experience on the Xbox, I can tell you that in crisis situations ammo is in fact laying all over ground, especially in wooden crates. Remember: when SHTF, look for the crates.
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Posted: 11/14/2008 1:47:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By AKD:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Tromatic:
Given the election of Our Savior, you need to consider ammunition availability. .223/5.56 will be laying on the ground, 6.8 not so much.


Where are you finding ammo on the ground? Hell I have a hard enough time finding it in the stores let alone on the ground...




From my experience on the Xbox, I can tell you that in crisis situations ammo is in fact laying all over ground, especially in wooden crates. Remember: when SHTF, look for the crates.


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Posted: 11/14/2008 6:36:09 PM EST
If I had it had it to do over I'd go with 6.8 now that the bugs have been worked out of the system and ammo. Three or four years ago when I began to aquire my weapons and ammo 6.8 was not that far along as far the complete system of weapon, affordable mags and ammo were concerned. Having several thousand dollars invested in 5.56 I don't feel the pressing need to change over to 6.8 or confuse the situation by having different calibers around. If I ever switch it will be a complete sell off of all 5.56 and replacement with 6.8.
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Posted: 11/14/2008 8:04:48 PM EST
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Posted: 11/14/2008 11:41:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/14/2008 11:42:30 PM EST by phoenix27]
As Quoted From Forest-
"Not only is 6.8 significanly larger, it's a more optimal wound profile (i.e. shorter neck) and more consistant results (far fewer issues with 'fleet yaw'). 6.8 will also still make FBI/IWBA minimum wounds after passing through barriers (including a chest pouch loaded with full AK magazines) something no 5.56 FMJ or OTM round can do."

Yeah, our enemies have pretty cheap frontal body armor against the ol' 5.56mm round, just wear a pouch of loaded AK mags in the front, what a cost-efficient solution. I agree, I would definitely recommend the upgrade to 6.8mm SPC for our troops. And once that happens, maybe they'll be some more and cheaper ammo alternatives for us little people after the switchover occurs.
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Posted: 11/15/2008 2:18:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By justbill:
I'm quite confident in the ability of .223 rounds like Federal Tactical Bonded, TAP Barrier, etc. to penetrate reasonable cover, expand and still provide a serious wound.




Hmm a .223 55gr expanding round traveling at 2705 fps or a .277 110gr expanding round traveling at 2650...

I'll take the advice of the researcher who's tested both (docGKR):
Remember the 6.8 x 43 mm SPC offers dramatically superior terminal performance compared to ALL existing 5.56 mm loads. Where 5.56 mm carbines may offer an advantage is when limited penetration through common intermediate barriers is desirable, for example, LE personnel performing entry in crowded urban environments. For those LE personnel who will need to punch through intermediate barriers or into vehicles, the 6.8 mm offers both superior penetration and incapacitation ability compared to 5.56 mm. Finally, keep in mind that 6.8 mm is more versatile and effective in short barreled carbines, as it does not suffer as much terminal performance decrement as 5.56 mm fired from short barrels.

Forest,

It seems like you're starting to read into stuff that isn't there. At no point did I say the .223/5.56 gave better terminal performance than comparable 6.8 loads. What I did say is that in my opinion, the 6.8's increase isn't worth the added cost for many people. I also don't like the limited choices in magazine selection, handloading components and factory ammo. If your shooting budget allows you to switch over, great for you. If you're satisfied with 6.8 bullet selection and mag availability, again, thumbs up. For me, I'm quite satisfied with the .223/5.56's performance when loaded with expanding bullets. From the looks of things among law enforcement and the military, I'm not alone. IMO the 6.8 SPC, while an interesting development, is headed to the land of the .358 Winchester and .41 Magnum - cartridges enthusiastically supported by their adherents for valid reasons but just not good enough for the vast majority of consumers to switch from other choices.

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Posted: 11/15/2008 4:39:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2008 4:41:14 AM EST by Derek45]
You can buy 6.8 brass on the shelf at Cabela's.

.270 caliber, 90-115 gr. bullets are easy to find.

If you use a progressive press like DILLON, it uses the same shell plate as .40 S&W, so it's fast and easy to convert from pistol to rifle.

now that 5.56mm/.223 is expensive, you might as well load something with some horsepower.

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Posted: 11/15/2008 6:42:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Derek45:
You can buy 6.8 brass on the shelf at Cabela's.

More than one brand? Any once-fired surplus 6.8 brass? For that matter, are there any 6.8 factory loads even approaching Wolf, Privi or other comparable .223 choices for low-cost practice rounds for those who don't handload?

.270 caliber, 90-115 gr. bullets are easy to find.

And .224" 45-77 gr. bullets are even easier to find. A lot cheaper too.

If you use a progressive press like DILLON, it uses the same shell plate as .40 S&W, so it's fast and easy to convert from pistol to rifle.

Minor point but point nonetheless.

now that 5.56mm/.223 is expensive, you might as well load something with some horsepower.

.223 and 5.56 NATO remains significantly less expensive than 6.8 SPC, just not by as much as in the past. It may be interesting to see what happens to the price again when President Obama begins the retreat from the GWOT and far less ammo is needed by the military. If there isn't a ban on selling surplus, 5.56 prices will drop again.

As for "horsepower," I guess untold numbers of people who have been killed by M16's, Galils and L85's over the past half century weren't told it was a mousegun. And the vast majority of those were with FMJ's no less!



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Posted: 11/15/2008 7:17:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR-180:
A few years from now, 5.56 will remain the much easier to obtain ammunition.

However, if you want to reload, both are similar in price for nice components
.


+1

No ammo will be easy to get if there's an ammo ban or punitive tax enacted in the near future, stock up now whatever you choose.

For quality anti personnel ammo there is little difference in price between 5.56 and 6.8spc.

I'm A Typical White Person Clinging To My Guns and Religion Out Of Bitterness and Have Antipathy to People Who Aren't Like Me.

Appreciate your friends while you have them.

Machina improba! Vel mihi ede potum vel mihi redde nummos meos!
Basic
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Posted: 11/21/2008 5:22:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 5:23:00 PM EST by Solodevice]
When Magpul starts making a 6.8 magazine i will buy a 6.8, probably from Barrett just because they are only right down the road from me. But in all seriousness if you already have a 7.62 then you have a heavy hitter, i would go for the 5.56 fast light quickly deployed and parts & ammo are readily available. My opinion if you shoot someone, they WILL know it. If they are hopped up on dope or what not then I don't really think it matters what your shooting, anything short of a .50cal that is. 5.56 imo
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Posted: 11/21/2008 7:12:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 7:27:59 PM EST by gargamel]
If I wanted a AR-15 mainly for hunting purposes, I would consider the 6.8. Beyond this 5.56 will do the trick for just about everything. Heck, with the right ammo, 223/5.56 will work for hunting in states allowing it. But let me not change the subject.

If commercial price for either caliber was the same, I would go 6.8 in a heart beat. But that is not the case. For me, 6.8 would be too pricey for plinking or serious shooting imo. If price is not a strong issue for you, by all means, go with it.

In regards to the "zombie attacking" crowd, I do not anticipate this happening soon so I do not see the need to have the harder hitting 6.8 in bulk. If you are more pressed to join the SHTF bunch and want more punch but at a cheaper price: 7.62x39 AK-47. If I saw zombies coming at me from 500 yards ( and hoping they walk slow ) I would just split and not not play sniper with whatever caliber. With my luck, these zombies won't play by Hollywood's rules and keep coming with either 6.8 and 5.56 headshots.

For me: 5.56 is good overall and anytime. 6.8 if it were to be used seasonally.



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