Hey Molon, whatever happened to the review of the Nosler customs?

I have only had the black rifle disease for about a year now, so please excuse me if my questions seem a little uninformed.  Can you guys please tell me about the different types of TAP please?  I have seen some that are ballistic tips, hollow points, and different boxes, and such.  I am, and have always been a Hornady fan, but I am a little confused.  If it is not too much trouble, would somebody please run me from top to bottom on these rounds?  I really appreciate the info, and thank you guys in advance.  9080 Out.

Short version:

The holy grail defense round/projectile is Hornady's 75gr 5.56 TAP with the T2 projectile,  at the moment.
The T2 comes in the LE 5.56 TAP Red Boxes.
Do not confuse this round with Hornady's various other 223 TAP civilian offerings.
Great with a 1/7 barrel, buy at around a dollar per round...if you can find it.
Truly the best SHTF stuff IMO.

Here's a Snapshot of that load.


Nosler 77 grain Custom Competition HPBT




This ammunition uses Nosler’s 77 grain OTM projectile with a cannelure, loaded in Nosler brass.





This load had a muzzle velocity of 2612 fps with a standard deviation of 19 fps from a 20" Colt M16A2 barrel.  A 10-shot group fired from my Krieger barreled AR-15 had and extreme spread of 0.98” and a mean radius of 0.31”.

That's a pretty impressive load.  It appears to be extremely consistent.  For +$30 a box I'm not surprised!

tag

My question, is the fpd a suitable replacement for the tap 5.56 which seems impossible to find for self defense purpose

Refer to the first page of this thread.

reposted for reference


Hornady 75 grain 5.56 NATO Superformance





Hornady’s newest line of ammunition in 223 Remington/5.56mm NATO, “Superformance”, is now shipping.  Of particular interest to AR-15 shooters is their 75 grain 5.56 NATO Superformance load.  Hornady claims a velocity of 2920 fps for this load from a "20 inch NATO-spec test barrel."



From Hornady's website.



The 5.56 NATO Superformance load is topped with the “T1” 75 grain BTHP projectile.  There is a slight taper crimp at the case mouth and no case-mouth sealant.














Naturally this load is charged with one of the new, “highly progressive” Superformance powders.  According to Hornady, the Superformance propellants “provide a longer duration/application of peak pressure in the pressure time curve that occurs within the barrel.  In other words, both Superformance and standard propellants provide an equally powerful 'push' applied to the base of the bullet, but with Superformance propellants, the 'push' is applied for a longer period of time.”




From Hornady’s website.



The lot of 5.56 NATO Superformance ammunition that I evaluated is loaded in Lake City 09 brass.  The primer pockets are crimped and sealed.


Chronographing of the 75 grain 5.56 NATO Superformance ammunition was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. All strings of fire consisted of 10 rounds each.  Data was obtained from a Colt 20” M16A2 barrel.  





M16A2 barrel















Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.





Atmospheric conditions:

Temperature: 58 degrees F.
Humidity: 32%
Barometric pressure: 29.65 inches of Hg
Elevation: 950 feet above sea level


For comparison, I fired the Superformance load back-to-back with Hornady’s 75 grain 5.56 NATO TAP T2 and 75 grain 223 Remington TAP FPD.  The chronograph data is shown in the table below.










There were no manifest over-pressure signs on the case-heads of the fired Superformance rounds.






An accuracy Snapshot of the 5.56 NATO Superformance load was obtained from a distance of 100 yards shooting from my bench-rest set-up.  The test vehicle was a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt HBAR with a 1:7” twist.  The barrel was free-floated. The free-float handguard of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the objective-bell of the scope. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe.





A quick 10-shot control group fired from the above set-up using match-grade hand-loads had an extreme spread of 1.2”.





The 10-shot group of the 75 grain 5.56 NATO Superformance load had an extreme spread of 3.4” and a mean radius of 1.16”.






For the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience tonight, here’s a pic of a cherry picked, 3-shot group of the 5.56 NATO Superformance load.  The group has an extreme spread of 1.263”.






Hornady 223 Remington 75 grain Superformance





The new 223 Remington version of the 75 grain Superformance ammunition is loaded with the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet; the “T1”.  This bullet does not have a cannelure, but a slight taper crimp at the case mouth produces a crease in the bullet jacket.  Naturally, this load is charged with one of the new “highly progressive” Superformance powders.






Hornady claims that this load obtains a velocity of 2930 fps when fired from a 24” SAAMI test barrel.  I chronographed this load from an AR-15 that has a 24” stainless-steel match grade Krieger barrel with a 233 Remington chamber.  A 10-shot string fired from the Krieger barrel produced a muzzle velocity of 2881 fps with a standard deviation of 14 fps.

An accuracy SnapShot of this load was obtained from my AR-15 with the 24” Krieger barrel that has a 5.56 Match chamber.  This barrel was chosen as the test vehicle because it shoots the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet extremely well.  Previous testing with factory loaded ammunition from both Hornady and Black Hills ammunition topped with the Hornady T1 bullet produced 10-shot groups from 100 yards in the 1 MOA spectrum.  My match grade hand-loads using the T1 bullet fired from this barrel have approached half-MOA 10-shot groups from 100 yards.







The Superfromance load was fired from the Krieger barreled AR-15 from my bench-rest set-up at 100 yards.  The 10-shot group had an extreme spread of 1.878”.

















....

reposted for reference

ASYM Precision Ammunition 75 grain Tactical OTM




Full Disclosure – It is and has been my long standing policy not to accept free ammunition, firearms or related equipment from manufacturers, wholesalers or retailers.  I do this so that there can be absolutely no claims of bias in my test reports.

On September 16th, Stan Chen, the owner of ASYM Precision sent me a very professional and kindly worded IM introducing himself and asking if I would be interested in receiving some of his ammunition for testing.  He made it very clear in his IM that there would be “no strings attached” if I chose to accept his offer.   I informed Mr. Chen that due to my above policy I would have to decline his gracious offer.

After perusing the ASYM Precision website, my interest in the ASYM ammunition was genuinely piqued.  I placed an order for some of the 75 grain Tactical OTM ammunition through the ASYM website using the name that is printed on my birth certificate.  Since Mr. Chen and I have never met in person, I’m certain that he wouldn’t know that name from Adam.  I’m quite confident that the ammunition that I received and evaluated for this article is of the same caliber (no pun intended) that any other member of the general population would receive when ordering.


Consistency is the key to manufacturing quality ammunition.  This includes not only the consistency of the components used, but also the consistency in which those components are physically assembled into a loaded cartridge as well as the consistency produced from the “recipe” used to create a favorable interaction between all the components and the rifle firing the ammunition.

No manufacturer can produce ammunition that will be accurate in everyone’s rifle.  Every barrel is a “law unto itself” and there are simply too many variables involved for a given load to shoot accurately from every rifle.  What a manufacturer can do to create ammunition that shoots well from a broad spectrum of rifles, is to use quality components, find a “recipe” that works in test barrels and for  several sample rifles and then produce that ammunition with the highest level of consistency possible.

The ASYM Precision 75 grain Tactical OTM ammunition uses quality components.  The projectile used in this load is Hornady’s 75 grain BTHP bullet with a cannelure, or the “T1C” as it is commonly referred to here at AR15.com.





The Hornady 75 grain BTHP projectile produces some of the best unobstructed terminal ballistics currently available for a .223 Remington load.




Courtesy of Dr. G.K. Roberts








Courtesy of B&T Ammo Labs.



The Hornady 75 grain BTHP projectile is also capable of delivering excellent accuracy.  The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from my Krieger barreled semi-automatic AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards using hand-loads of the Hornady 75 grain BTHP without a cannelure, or the “T1”.





Now, we can’t expect factory-loaded ammunition to shoot nearly as accurately as a hand-load that was tuned to our own barrel.  Also, the addition of a cannelure and case-mouth crimp to a match-grade bullet will have a degrading effect on accuracy; but that’s the price we pay for implementing this “anti-Murphy” technique to help prevent bullet set-back that might occur in a semi-automatic firearm.  In one test that I conducted using the 77 grain Nosler Custom Competition BTHP bullet, the average extreme spread of 10-shot groups at 100 yards increased by 24% with the addition of a case-mouth crimp into the cannelure.





The ASYM 75 grain load has a firm crimp at the case mouth.  An average pressure of 112 PSI was required to effect bullet set-back using a K&M compression gauge.  There is no sealant at the casemouth.


Compression gauge.






Consistency in bullet seating depth is an important aspect of accurate ammunition.  You might think that you could simply measure the cartridge overall length to assess the consistency of bullet seating depth, but this would be incorrect.  Open tip match bullets are produced with the jackets drawn from the base to the meplat, (the reverse of full metal jacket bullets.)  This process results in bullets that can have large variations in their lengths, however the variation is overwhelmingly in the very tip of the bullet and this is not an issue of quality control; it’s simply an artifact of producing an open tip match bullet.  As an example, it’s not uncommon for Sierra 77 grain MatchKings to have variations in length of 0.010” - 0.015”, yet the MatchKings have an excellent reputation for accuracy.  

The pic below shows the steps involved in drawing the copper jacket “cup” into a finished 75 grain BTHP bullet.



Courtesy of apb2772



The beast that produces the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullets.



Courtesy of apb2772




The distance from the base of the bullet to the ogive is the critical dimension related to bullet seating depth and accuracy.  With match-grade bullets such as the Sierra MatchKing and Hornady BTHP this dimension is extremely consistent.  As an example, I measured the length of ten randomly selected Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullets.  The variation from base to tip was 0.008”.  Next, I measured the base to ogive dimension of those same ten bullets using Sinclair’s digital bullet comparator system.  For eight of the ten bullets, the base to ogive dimension varied by only plus or minus 0.0005”, that’s five ten-thousandths of an inch.  One bullet varied by plus 0.001” and another by minus 0.001”.  This all shows that the proper method of determining the consistency of seated bullet depth is to measure the dimension form the base of the case to the ogive of the seated bullet.


Sinclair digital bullet comparator system.




There are a variety of instruments available for measuring the dimension from the base of the case to the ogive of the seated bullet.  One very simple, yet effective tool in this category is the RCBS Precision Mic.





I pulled ten random rounds of the ASYM 75 grain load from the box and measured the cartridge overall length.  The average OAL was 2.245” with a low value of 2.241” and a high value of 2.248” for a variation of 0.007”.  Next, I measured the base of the case to seated bullet ogive dimension of those same ten cartridges using the RCBS Precision Mic.  The variation was only plus or minus 0.001”.


Concentric: having a common center. Think of concentricity as a smaller circle centered within a larger circle. The amount that one circle is off-center with the other is referred to as “runout” and is usually measured in thousandths of an inch when pertaining to ammunition.

Why does all this matter? The more concentric, or the less run-out that a loaded round has, the more likely it is to shoot accurately. The bullet needs to be centered in the case neck and the case neck must be centered on the case body. This all helps the cartridge align itself in the chamber of the rifle so that the bullet has a straight shot to enter the rifling.

Seated bullet run-out of a loaded cartridge can easily be measured with a concentricity gauge.  Using a NECO concentricity gauge, I measured the seated bullet run-out of the ten sample rounds of ASYM ammunition.  The average seated bullet run-out was 0.004”.  The spiderweb graph shown below compares the seated bullet run-out (in thousandths of an inch) of the ASYM ammunition with two other factory loads and one of my match-grade handloads.








NECO concentricity gauge.




The 75 grain ASYM ammunition is loaded in virgin Lake City 09 brass.  The brass shows the annealing iris commonly found on military ammunition (which has no effect on performance.)  The primers are neither crimped nor sealed.  Mr. Chen had this to say about the brass:

“We uniform all the necks in a separate process before loading, to keep neck tension as consistent as possible with this brass.  We inspect every piece of brass for presence of flash hole and other irregularities before loading.”  







For those of you who might be wondering about the circular indentations found on the caseheads of Lake City brass, they’re for the octal numbering system used at Lake City as part of the Small Caliber Ammunition Modernization Program (SCAMP). A numerical number is given to different positions around the case headstamp and the values are added together to give a number that indicates the station on which that particular cartridge case was produced.








After breaking down the ten sample rounds of the ASYM 75 grain load, I weighed the deprimed and empty cases.  The weights of those ten cases are shown below  in grains.

92.74
92.66
92.88
92.22
92.08
93.48
92.52
93.26
92.28
93.12

The average weight is 92.72 grains with a variation of 1.4 grains and a standard deviation of 0.44 grains.  The variation and standard deviation of this small sample are in-line with much larger samples of  Lake City 5.56mm brass from previous years.







The 75 grain ASYM load is charged with a flattened “ball powder.”  The powder has a bulk density of approximately 0.989 grams per cubic centimeter, giving the cartridge a loading ratio of approximately 93%.  With regard to the powders used in his ammunition, Mr. Chen said, “I worked closely with my powder supplier to get optimal powders for specific loads.  I buy specific lots of the powders, in large quantity, that meet my specifications...they know what I'm looking for, and alert me to specific lots that meet the spec.” I weighed the powder charges from the ten sample cartridges with the following results in grains.

23.62
23.66
23.14
23.66
23.70
23.74
23.66
23.70
23.64
23.56

The average weight is 23.61 grains with a variation of 0.6 grains and a standard deviation of 0.16 grains.







The sides of the individual squares in the red grid below measure 0.10”.





The pulled bullets from the ten sample cartridges were weighed with the following results in grains.

75.12
74.80
74.90
75.20
74.90
75.14
74.84
74.92
74.90
74.88

These bullet weights show a variation of 0.40 grains with a standard deviation of 0.13 grains.  For comparison, I randomly selected 10 bullets from a box of Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullets sold as reloading components (#2279) and weighed them with the following results in grains.

75.04
75.10
75.04
74.98
75.04
75.06
75.02
75.08
75.08
75.10

This sample of the bullets sold as reloading components shows a variation in weight of 0.12 grains with a standard deviation of 0.04 grains.

The table below shows the affect that some of the variations involved in loading ammunition can have on muzzle velocity.  The data was generated using Quick-Load.




Here’s a few more tidbits before we get to the test results.  The SAAMI minimum chamber specification for the .223 Remington is 1.4636”.  The ten sample cartridges of ASYM ammunition had headspace dimensions that ranged from 1.4636” to a maximum variation of minus 0.002”.








The Speer Reloading Manual states that “CCI primers provide optimum sensitivity when seated 0.003” to 0.005” below flush . . .”  On eight of the ten ASYM sample cartridges, the primers were seated exactly 0.004” below flush.  One primer was seated at 0.0035” below flush and another at 0.006” below flush.  Mr. Chen stated that the specific primers used in his ammunition were selected because “They deliver the right brisance for reliable consistent ignition of the powder, and the correct cup thickness/hardness to stand up to higher pressures and floating firing pins. He also mentioned, "As a side note, we visually inspect every single primer for presence of priming compound, anvil, and irregularities.”


One of the things that really impressed me about the information given for this ammunition on the ASYM Precision website was the way in which the velocity data was presented.  Most ammunition manufacturers only give the velocity of their ammunition as obtained from a minimum spec, 24” test barrel.  While this SAAMI standard is certainly prudent, it is not very helpful for most AR-15 owners.  

In addition to the 24” test barrel velocity, the ASYM Precision website also lists what I refer to as “real world” velocities; that is, velocities obtained from AR-15s with barrel lengths and chambers in common usage.  The website lists velocities from well known brands of AR-15s with barrel lengths of 20”, 18”, 16”, 14.5” and 10.5”.  I chronographed the ASYM 75 grain OTM load from Colt AR-15s with 20”, 16” and 14.5” barrels.  The average velocity obtained from those three barrels only differed by 5 fps from the average velocity of the same barrel lengths given on the ASYM website.







Chronographing of the 75 grain Tactical OTM ammunition was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. All strings of fire consisted of 10 rounds each.  As mentioned above, data was obtained from a Colt 14.5” M4A1 barrel, a Colt 16” 6520 barrel and a Colt 20” M16A2 barrel.





M4A1 barrel





6520 barrel





M16A2 barrel















Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.





Atmospheric conditions:

Temperature: 75 degrees F.
Humidity: 50%.
Barometric pressure: 29.83 inches of Hg
Elevation: 950 feet above sea level



The chronograph data is shown in the table below.  The average standard deviation for the three 10-shot strings is 18 fps.  For comparison, the mil-spec for U.S. M193 and M855 allows for a standard deviation of 40 fps.






For comparison, the ASYM 75 grain OTM load was chronographed back to back from the 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with Hornady’s .223 75 grain TAP FPD load and Hornady’s 5.56mm 75 grain TAP T2 load.  The results are shown below.









Accuracy Evaluation
of the
ASYM Precision Ammunition 75 grain Tactical OTM








*****

From Rick Jamison:

“There are stories of a single bullet that for no explained reason flies out of what might have been a tight cluster. This often occurs with a three-shot string and many times with a five-shot string. If you're lucky enough to fire a group without a flier, you can end up with a very tight group. However, usually what happens if another five or seven shots are fired to complete a 10-shot string, other bullets fill in the space between the main group and the flier to make a reasonably rounded group. Ten shots are a more reliable indicator when it comes to predicting what a load is likely to do in the future.

The problem with 10-shot groups is that when you report them, everyone thinks you aren't shooting very well or that the ammunition is not good because the group sizes are so much larger than three- or five-shot groups. Also, when we're firing three- or five-shot groups with a flier, it is only natural to assume that it was caused by a flinch or "pulling" the shot. Therefore, since the flier was our own fault, the tendency is to eliminate it from any reporting of group size.

This is one of the advantages of using a machine rest... The machine rest reduces the human element. After using this machine rest for several years, I have determined that a 1.5-inch 10-shot group at 100 yards... is a good one.”

*****

I performed an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the ASYM Precision 75 grain Tactical OTM ammunition following my usual protocol. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots).

The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a "control group" was fired from the barrel used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation.

All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguard of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest with the aid of a Sinclair fore-arm adaptor, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the objective-bell of the scope. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe.   All rounds were fired from the magazine.  The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.







The Wind Probe




The test vehicle for this evaluation was a semi-automatic AR-15 with a 24” stainless steel Krieger barrel.  The barrel has a 5.56 Match chamber and a 1:7.7” twist.  






Prior to firing the ASYM ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using match-grade hand-loads topped with Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings.  That group had an extreme spread of 0.452”.







From a distance of 100 yards, three 10-shot groups of the ASYM 75 grain ammunition were fired in a row with the resulting extreme spreads:

1.21”
1.11”
1.29”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.20”.  The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other to form a 30-shot composite group.  The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.40”.  For those of you not familiar with the mean radius, I've posted some information about it here.


The smallest 10-shot group













The 30-shot composite group






The graph below shows the trajectories of the ASYM 75 grain load from various barrel lengths.






....

That ASYM ammo looks pretty impressive for factory loaded ammunition made by a company I've never heard of before now. It is always nice to see newcomers get into the ammo making business. It appears these folks are dedicated to producing a quality product. Thank you very much for your findings. You always post excellent reviews and this last one may just be the best one yet.

BTW, where can one find this ASYM ammo? I'd be interested in picking up some of this to see how it performs in my rifles. It looks like this stuff is a bit hotter than the standard pressure .223 loads from Black Hills and Hornady.

Me too.  Where can we find it?

Being this was posted nearly a year ago..has anything changed? I shot some today and it was much better than that... maybe I got lucky

http://www.chencustoms.com/ and http://vzgrips.com/ both have it. Chen Customs is cheaper.

The Superperformance 75 gr. 5.56 NATO loading appears to now be sporting the T2 bullet.  Accuracy appears to have improved, as well.  I suck at shooting, but, I gave it a run and tested this stuff out today with a new upper I just received. Check out my results in this thread.

ETA:  Upper is sporting a 16" Rock Creek 5R 4150 CMV barrel (mid-length).

I agree, I came in here to post the same thing.





Pictures I just took (I already posted in the linked thread)
Molon's comparison picture:

I apologize for the pictures that aren't 100% in focus, as my camera
isn't the best for these pictures, but here is my .223 75gr TAP
(pictured on right, silver cases) and 5.56 NATO Superperformance 75gr
(brass cases).     The TAP was purchased locally about a week ago and
the 5.56 came from CtD about a week ago.
You can see the HP opening is slightly bigger on the TAP.


Now, the bullet in the brass case looks an awfully lot like a T2 rather than a T1 to me.







Now, I haven't tested either of these yet (I have a 20" 1x8 and a 16"
1x9 gun I want to try them in) but if this is the case, I fail to see a
reason why the Super-performance isn't desirable instead of the .223 TAP
or even the hard to find 5.56 TAP.




Thoughts?



 





 

Removed to cut down on duplication of info on my part.

I posted a link in the other thread to a Hornady PDF that warned against using the Super performance ammo in rifle or midlength DI systems.       Is that what you were using them in?



eta: I just saw in the other thread you used a 16" mid length.    That could be it.



One of the guns I was going to try it in was a 16" carbine length system.      I can probably arrange to try it in an 11.5" eventually also.





 

I shoulda added that my upper was doing this with three of the four loads used at the range, most notably with XM193 and nothing at all with the Hornady 55 gr V-MAX load.

My experience last year with the earlier version of this ammo was in a rifle-length gas system (18" rifle length SPR).  Accuracy was very poor––around 4" @100yd for 10 shots.

Has anyone tested or otherwise used the 75gr Hornady Steel Match ammunition?

At .40 cents a round it's priced pretty good. According to Hornady, everything is the same, compared to the 75gr Match, with the exception of the case .

osb

75gr Black Hill Blue Box & 75gr Hornady 5.56mm Handload Accuracy Testing:

I recently got a new 20" 1x7" barrel for my rifle.

Douglas SS Match - chambered/contoured by CLE, .223 Wylde chamber, 1" under handguards,  .936" w/white oak gas block, .925" to muzzle, 11 deg crown, matched bolt.   Note: Anyone wanting a great barrel from a great guy should contact Frank White at CLE.

Other spec's:

+cheap nikon prostaff 3x9x50 scope
+bill springfield reworked factory single stage trigger (~4# with lightened hammer)
+harris bipod
+freefloat tube
+ergo grip




Accuracy Test Results

+100yards, laser measured
+1300' altitude
+old rotten picnic table as bench
+bipod in front,  shot bag in rear
+no wind probes unless you count watching to see when the tall grass/weeds are moving the least.
+scope set at 9 magnification (no parallax adjustment and/or magnification like the Hubble telescope)
+10 shots all mag fed (2 x 5 rounds).  What good is single load testing a semi-auto rifle?  Shoot it like you'll use it.
+Analyzed using RSI free download s/w.


75gr Black Hill Blue Box:

1.14" CTC
1.09 MOA
Average Radius = 0.39"
The one high shot was the first shot on the second 5 round mag (manually loaded using bolt release)



75gr Hornady T1 Handload
24.3gr H4895 (5.56mm pressure - Work up slowly at your own risk using a .223 wylde or 5.56mm chambers only)
Rem 7 1/2 primer
Hornady once fired brass (97gr) - trimmed to 1.758"
COAL = 2.252-2.259"
2875fps ave, 13fps SD, 43fps ES as measured by a prochrono chronograph at 15'
Primers looked like factory TAP (maybe slightly flattened).  No extractor marks etc.

0.95" CTC
0.91 MOA
Average Radius = 0.32"

The low round was the first round on the second 5 round mag (manually loaded with bolt release)



Next time I shoot I'm going to load all 10 rounds at once.  

I have come up with a decent SAAMI load this weekend that is somewhat more accurate than my 5.56mm pressure hand load per my initial load work-up testing at 50 yards.  It's 23.1gr (vs 24.3gr) H4895, all else is the same.  I'm going to load up some more and shoot a 10 round group at 100 yards.

Next year's investment will be better glass and trigger.

This is NOT a bump.

I hate to revive a zombie thread, but this thread is the best place to ask this question.

I bought a few boxes 8126N from a private seller and noticed they use Lake City 09 brass. The lot number on all the boxes is 3120137.

Should I be worried that I received fake rounds that somebody just reloaded in their garage? They were packaged in genuine Hornady TAP red boxes. I pulled apart a round with some pliers and compared the powder and bullet to the ones Molon posted on the first page and they look legitimate.

Here are some pictures:

That looks like you got the real deal to me.  The reasons being:
1. Sealed primers.  Some dude reloading in his garage is not going to seal the primers.
2. The shape of the bullet.  These bullets you picture have the shape of the newer "T2" Bullet.  It is not available as a reloading component.  Only the "T1" shaped bullet is available, and then only without a cannelure.

You got the real deal stuff.

If I understand the lot number correctly, then these were made in 2012 with 09 Lake City brass. Doesn't that sound odd? Using three year old brass? Everything else makes sense.

Not to me.  Black Hills and Hornady both use whatever brass they can get ahold of.  Sometimes it has their own headstamp on it it, but other times it will have LC with Nato cross/circle or even WCC with cross/circle.  It should all be the same in the same lot, but it will vary lot to lot.

Yeah Hornady has been using various brass for quite a while.  I've got some from around 09 that is Hornady brass and I ordered two cases directly from them in 2011 that came in Winchester brass.

Are the T1 and T2 bullets bonded?

No! Open Tip Match bullets.

t1 and t2 are both OTM

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I will be picking up some 5.56 TAP locally.  I would like to know what all I should look for to make sure it is the real deal?  Also is this stuff still considered the best fragmenting sd/shtf ammo, especially out of a 10.3" sbr barrel?  Thanks!

The current wave of popularity seems to have shifted to barrier blind ammo instead of fragmenting ammo.  For a 10.3 or 10.5" barrel 5.56 Hornady TAP will still work just as well as it did 5 years ago, but I suggest you also look at the Black Hills 5.56 50gr TSX load for a barrier blind loading out of a short barrel.  Very impressive.

If you can find it and you are happy with the price get it. I still like TAP and MK262 out of my 10.5". For a SBR I would stick with TAP T2 not TAP FPD if you go with TAP.

As the last poster said, the 50gr TSX is also very good. Another making the flavor of the month is Federal Fusion MSR 62gr. You can find Black Hills 50gr TSX at MidwayUSA for $72 per 50 and Fusion MSR just about every walmart and Bass Pro.

Once upon a time there was talk about someone cleaning out the junk in this thread and making it into a pdf file. Did that ever happen?

Thus far...no.

Wow, this thread is amazing.



I grabbed a box of Hornady TAP FPD to use up my Scheels bucks and was wondering if ARFCOM had any data laying around on it.



Holy heck it does.



Bravo to the OP and everyone else that contributed to it.

Opps double tap.

I re-read this post today and I read you mentioned that some casing of the blue box remanufactured Black Hill had longer than SAAMI Specs for case length. I recalled in about 2007-2008 I had a shortened range session due to a stuck casing in my chamber of my bushmaster carbon 15. Now it could've been an issue with the bushmaster carbon upper and m4 profile 16 inch barrel. This was the only time I had a stuck casing outside of wolf or Tula steel cases.

As my time allows, I'm  going to pull the data from the different loads posted throughout this humongous thread and make them individual threads so that it will be much easier to find a particular load with the search function.


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This is very interesting to read through, whew. Great research.

You are a King among men.  

Whew.  Remember some of us are retired 19D's so it takes a while to get through what normal people can do quickly.

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So which bullet am I buying when I get 75gr BTHP with cannelure as a Virgin component? Neither T1 or T2 but the standard (pictured on left in OP) just with a cannelure?