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So how can one obtain 5.56mm TAP? My understanding is its hard to get, but can be done...
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If you are LE or active military call Hornady directly (# is on their website) and ask for LE sales (Kathy). If not, get one of your friends/family in LE or active military to do it. Basically direct from Hornady to LE (individual or department) or active duty military is the only way it will leave their warehouse.
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You should never try to solve your problems with handguns. Large caliber automatics work much better.
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Okay... sounds good.. any idea how much it costs? I'm going to make a guess around $0.75 a round . |
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LE pricing is $10.73 for a box of 20 and I think that you get a 10% discount if you order 200 rounds. |
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Burp! BTT
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Coming soon: 5.56 TAP versus Black Hills MK262.
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Molon- I assume your 1/9 barrel is chrome lined? I have always wondered if the chrome lining would lead to less spin and stabilty - less friction. Also, as a barrel wears out the rifling and ID wear as well. Just my random thoughts and like you said..everyones barrel is a little different.
Would a slower round (non-5.56) have a chance to stabilize better. Since it is not be forced down the barrel as hard/fast? Thanks for the posts! Edit- I am wondering if a barrel and its rifling can only do so much work towards stabilizing a bullet. If their was an equation it would be something like bullet weight times energy times twist coefficient for barrel = a certain spin rate required to keep the bullet stable. Therefore increasing bullet weight and/or speed down the barrel could throw of the equation for a stable bullet...Just realized that their probably already twenty equations out their to figure this stuff out. |
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This thread should be tacked.
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<font size=2>"So look up ahead at times to come, despair is not for us. We have a world and more to see, while this remains behind."
James Nicholas Rowe COL, United States Army</font id=s2> |
The Greenhill formula for rifling twist is as follows: For velocities up to about 1800fps: Twist = (150 * bullet diameter) / (bullet length / bullet diameter) For velocities above 1800 fps: Twist = (180 * bullet diameter) / (bullet length / bullet diameter) This formula is not super-exact, as it does not take into account bullet shape, jacket material, jacket thickness, bullet density, etc, etc, but it is a great starting point and is very simple, whereas an all encompassing formula would be much more difficult to use quickly. Sir Alfred Greenhill (1847-1927) came up with the formula. He was a lecturer in mathematics at Emmanuel College, Cambridge, England from 1873-1876. He also taught mathematics to artillery officers at Woolrich Military Academy from 1876-1906. |
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Follow Me!
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Awesome Molon!!
This thread has now answered all my questions about 5.56 TAP. Thanks for all the work you have done. This thread should be tacked as TAP questions are asked often. |
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Your MK262 is listed at 2630 instead of 2830 on your first pic/chart for the 20" barrel.
What were the extreme spreads of the MK262 and 5.56 TAP? Its pretty amazing how nearly identical the two loads are. |
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Good Job Molon! This stuff needs to go in a tacked thread as it's asked about every month or so.
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Visit www.MD-AR15.com
"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh |
Excellent, excellent thread! Great work Molon!
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After all the B.S. is said and done perhaps all I can say is Molon Labe!!!
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Thanks for pointing out the misprint. The chart has been corrected. Naturally not all of my chronographs came out so close to each other. I thought it was remarkable that I was able to find those occurances that were so nearly identical. Also, the velocity figures I posted were from the MK262 load using the Sierra OTM bullet. The MK262 from the original AR-15 group buy that used the Nosler OTM bullet tended to have slighty higher velocities out of a 20" barrel. I don't save the extreme spread figures in my computer database of chronograph data, but if I can find the original chronograph printouts I'll post that data. |
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Absolutely awsome work!!!
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"Untutoured courage is useless in the face of educated bullets." -Gen. George S. Patton
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This is GREAT stuff!!! Nice work and thank you for all of your work. Is there any information available about the Bullet Path of the TAP FPD and the TAP Practice round? I'd be interested in seeing how they compare to the 5.56 TAP T2.
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Thank you for your good work and an extremely useful thread.
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NRA member, GOA member, USN Veteran.
The key to effectiveness is shot placement. Effective shot placement comes through training and practice. |
If ever a thread was worthy of tacking this one is.
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I suspect, according to the data and pics, that the MK262 and 5.56 TAP use the IDENTICAL ball powder. I would sure like to know for my TAP/MK262 handload clones... So far I have been unable to find a duplicate from available RETAIL powders. Rmpl |
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"Our destruction... will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence..." ...Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837
What Would Yahshua Do? www.wwyd.org |
I'm certainly no ammo guru, but perhaps the factory blends are proprietary? May not be able to duplicate with retail stuff. YMMV. |
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When the going gets tough...the tough go cyclic.
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Never mind, found it.
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Here is another perspective on how accurate the 5.56 TAP round is for a NATO pressure load. Below is the 30-round composite target of the 5.56 TAP load fired from 100 yards compared to a 30-round composite target of IMI M193 fired from the same Colt HBAR at 100 yards. The composite mean radius for the M193 load is 0.72" while the mean radius for the 5.56 TAP load is only 0.46".
Here is the same 30-round composite target from the 5.56 TAP load overlayed on an NRA High Power type target reduced for 100 yards. (The X-ring measures 1.5" and the 10-ring is 3.5".) |
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Not to mention, IMI M193 is about tops in consistency & accuracy as M193 goes. I've seen much worse accuracy out of other M193 and M855. What was the max spread on the IMI? I'm guestimating somewhere around 2.5" for the entire 30 round group. That's as good as M193 gets. Milspec requirement is something like 4-5".
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You should never try to solve your problems with handguns. Large caliber automatics work much better.
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The individual 10-shot groups of the IMI M193 measured 2.24", 2.59" and 2.62". The extreme spread for the 30-round composite target was 2.88". The IMI stuff is the best M193 that I have come across. |
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Excellent info!!
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"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Admiral Yamamoto
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I finally received a reply to the e-mail I sent to Hornady asking them if the “T2” bullet was available as a reloading component. They’re not long on words at Hornady. The reply simply stated, “No, we're sorry, it is not.”
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LOL Short and to the point arn't they Molon?
+1 on this should be tacked. Excelent information and good solid research such as this deserves to live on for others to use in their own research. Thanks for the effort Molon, it IS appreciated! |
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1911. I've heard rumors there are other handguns
FL, USA
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Psalm 54:7 For He has delivered me from all my troubles, and my eyes have looked in triumph on my foes. yep <img src=/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
DaveS: The Holy Spirit and a 1911 are good companions. |
great thread. thank you. Now I just need to get my nephew who's in the military to get me some 5.56 TAP. :)
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Thanks again for the compliments.
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1911. I've heard rumors there are other handguns
FL, USA
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group buy |
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Psalm 54:7 For He has delivered me from all my troubles, and my eyes have looked in triumph on my foes. yep <img src=/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
DaveS: The Holy Spirit and a 1911 are good companions. |
OUTSTANDING AMMO REVIEW! Thank you very much...
AC |
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I agree! Great work!! Sorry it took me so long to find this. I feel extremely fortunate to have had a 5.56 TAP connection. |
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Your welcome very much!
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GREAT JOB
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There are already people willing to purchase ammo for us in group buy fashion for the 5.56 TAP load. However many of the people I have talked to about this want prices below dealer cost and below LE cost or at most they want people to go through a lot of crap for zero benefit just because they are selfish and dont want the officer doing the order for them to benefit in any way. "LE cost is $110 per 200 and I dont want to pay more than that even if I am not LE"
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Molon. WHen we get the 75 Gr. ammo from HSM, would you be interested in testing it for us like you did with the ammo you tested? Thanks in advance.
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DevL, simply incredible.
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You should never try to solve your problems with handguns. Large automatic rifles work much better.
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Molon,
This among the best publicly available testing of this type I've seen done; you are to be congratulated! Your results are in concordance with both testing we have conducted and other data that I am aware of. Thank you for your efforts at making this useful information openly available and helping to educate the shooting public. |
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I couldn't have asked for a better validation of my results. I thank you kindly. Molon |
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Nice Thread
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I am still wondering... why this is not tacked?
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+1 Tack it, mods. Very informative stuff. Makes me glad I have two sources for TAP |
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"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." - Mayor Adam West
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1911. I've heard rumors there are other handguns
FL, USA
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Indeed, the tackage is strong with this thread ... |
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Psalm 54:7 For He has delivered me from all my troubles, and my eyes have looked in triumph on my foes. yep <img src=/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
DaveS: The Holy Spirit and a 1911 are good companions. |
If it is tacked, would anyone else agree that the replies to Molon's info be taken out so that all of his great information be compressed into either one post or all of the first posts so his info is complete and kept together right at the beginning?
Scott |
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Probably a good idea. |
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Great job Molon. Thanks!
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