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Posted: 8/15/2017 12:53:34 PM EDT
[#1]
1. Cheap
2. Affordable ammo I can use in my pistol too 3. Low recoil 4. Excellent for teaching new shooters due to the low recoil and quiet report 5. Suppress better than a rifle (shit is quiet as hell, yo) 6. Generally pretty damn reliable 7. Easy to clean (most of them) 8. Fun as hell to shoot |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 12:55:39 PM EDT
[#2]
For some shooters, the single biggest attraction of a PCC is that they can be used on indoor ranges which do not allow centerfire rifle cartridges. If you don't have your own range, and/or live in an area of the country where the weather is terrible much of the year, that can be a big deal.
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Posted: 8/15/2017 1:03:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Won't blow your eardrums out of your ears if you shoot it indoors unsuppressed.
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Posted: 8/15/2017 1:36:22 PM EDT
[#4]
For a Long time I looked at Pistol Caliber Carbines and Pistols with the statement - WHY, just get a Glock 19 and stoke it with a 33rd magazine and I'm ready for anything. Then on a whim, I bought a 7.5" 9mm AR Pistol from a Gentleman selling it at a reasonable price, since then I built another to keep it company. Mostly Range toys with some thought in the back of my mind for Home Defense. Both AR 9's are not the first Firearm I would grab if I hear something go Bump in the night and If I felt I needed them close at all times for personal defense I would probably move.
I have owned 5.56, 300BO Rifles and Pistols and have gone completely Pistol Caliber, Ammo is cheap, small and light weight and do have the ability to reach out past Handgun effective range. Recoil on a Blowback 9mm carbine or Pistol is very manageable, The recoil on a .45 AR is a little harsh due to Bolt and Buffer weight, with a .45 there are other options - Direct Impingement and Delayed Blowback to help manage recoil and wear and tear on internals. I think of 9mm AR Pistols uses similar to the use of an H&K MP5. To sum up - Range toys that are a lot of fun to shoot, Have a certain Cool factor and for us Aged shooters less abuse to my poor old body. 
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:09:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
... Pros and cons vs a AR-15? ... Wrong question, IMHO. PCCs don't really compete with full-power centerfire rifles, all else being equal. I love PCCs and have a bunch of them, but take all other considerations off the table and I'll pick one of my centerfire ARs, SBRs, or bullpups every time based on terminal ballistics alone. (Just as I would take a PCC over a handgun every time for anything other than concealment, because a long gun [even in a pistol caliber] has several tangible advantages over a handgun in the same caliber.) But all else is NOT equal all of the time, and PCCs really shine in those rare niches and needs where they can do something a "real rifle" cannot (or at least can't do as well). It's a short list, and they all usually get touched on in a thread like this. Indoor range restrictions, hearing-safe suppression requirements, lower noise and felt recoil even unsuppressed, and others have already been mentioned above. I'll add one that is the primary selling point for the little Kel-Tec SUB series of carbines: They will fold and stow, loaded and ready to deploy and shoot in a couple of seconds, in spaces much smaller than any non-NFA centerfire rifle can. The most common reply to this assertion is that you could simply pop the pins and carry a disassembled AR in a space almost that small, but I would respectfully challenge you to try to assemble, charge, and fire an "AR-in-separate-halves" as quickly as someone equally practiced can unfold, charge, and fire a folded SUB carbine. Another potential plus (that I don't believe has been mentioned yet) is that there are now quite a few PCCs that utilize common handgun magazines. For someone who wants to have both a handgun and a long gun in a vehicle, in a travel bag, etc., but anticipates little need for the additional performance of a rifle round, the idea of having both a handgun and long gun that make use of the same magazines and ammunition may be very appealing indeed. I mostly have PCCs for fun at the range, like others have said, and I use an AR (suppressed SBR) for HD and keep an AR in most of my vehicles 99% of the time... but, if necessary, I would go to one of my better PCCs for HD/SD before any of my handguns (or shotguns, for that matter). YMMV. Happily, I don't ever expect to be in that situation. 
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:18:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2. Affordable ammo I can use in my pistol too 3. Low recoil 4. Excellent for teaching new shooters due to the low recoil and quiet report 5. Suppress better than a rifle (shit is quiet as hell, yo) 6. Generally pretty damn reliable 7. Easy to clean (most of them) 8. Fun as hell to shoot |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:28:24 PM EDT
[#7]
I like my AR9 because it's cheaper to shoot than 5.56 but with the same manual of arms, control layout, etc.
OTOH, I'd rather have an MP5. But those are 2x-4x the price of an AR9. Kel-Tec Sub2k is worth a look as a trunk gun that will function with the same mags as your pistol (potentially). |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:33:46 PM EDT
[#8]
I like me some PCC, but I don't think I'd really enjoy a standard AR-pattern 9mm...
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:42:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like me some PCC, but I don't think I'd really enjoy a standard AR-pattern 9mm... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/173511/45_2-281166.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/173511/45_3-281167.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/173511/45_1-281168.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/173511/fpg_1-281169.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/173511/fpg_2-281170.JPG 
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:44:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the folding gun? |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 4:30:43 PM EDT
[#11]
9mm with a 4.5" barrel is a lot of fun.
9mm with a 16" barrel doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather shoot 5.56 at that point. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 4:38:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote History |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 5:51:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Cheap to shoot.
Quiet. Way easier to load for than 300 BLK. Not necessarily in that order. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 5:59:36 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 8/15/2017 6:02:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Just plain old fun.
I have an AR45 and it is probably more "fun" than any other gun I have to just go plink at the range. It is SBRed and Suppressed. It is fairly quiet and the sound of 230gr bullets hitting steel is awesome. 
It also happens to be very reliable and I would not hesitate to use it for self defense if need be. I have an extra SBRed lower that I don't really have a use for. Keep saying that I am going to build a 9mm upper for it. I would keep it really short and light. Only thing holding me up is I don't have a suppressor for it. 
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Posted: 8/15/2017 6:55:41 PM EDT
[#16]
So much fun to shoot.
My range has at least 4 pits that are majority steel targets at close range. If you have ever shot steel with a PCC you will understand how much fun it is. Very accurate Cheap to shoot Did I say, it is very fun to shoot? 
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Posted: 8/15/2017 7:16:30 PM EDT
[#17]
My fascination with pistol caliber carbines started when I first saw the Ruger 44 mag carbine. Finally obtained one (a '63 vintage) and love it. Unfortunately, let the wife shoot it so she thinks it is hers.
9mm out of a rifle is fun. You get some velocity boost. Low recoil, cheap ammo, and a nice step up from 22lr. Also perfectly fine for defense. Additionally, as mentioned above, you can often shoot them at "pistol only" things - either indoor ranges OR steel targets, etc. where 22lr doesn't have the power to knock something down, but 223 or other rifle calibers aren't allowed. The ones that share magazine compatibility with a pistol - the Iver Johnson M1 Carbine that takes HP mags, the KelTec offerings, a Glock mag AR, the Beretta Cx4, etc - give you some nice backup, just like the old cowboys who had rifles and pistols in 44-40, etc. I would imagine that if you were a police officer in an urban environment that having a carbine that shared ammo and mags with your duty pistol would be a plus. Esp if you could ignore NFA laws (or at least the delays) and set up a short barrel (8-10") with shoulder stock. Increased accuracy, etc. The final point doesn't apply to me - but if you have a tax stamp for something with a giggle switch or if you care to use one of the binary triggers, a slide fire stock, etc, they are A LOT of fun, esp when shooting steel, etc. Buddy has a M16 and multiple uppers. 95% of the time it has a conversion block and a 9mm upper (4" barrel w/ integral suppressor to bring it to 16 in. "barrel" length) on it. MUCH more pleasant to shoot than with a 223 upper. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 9:02:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I've never understood the appeal of the pistol caliber carbine. Help me understand. Pros and cons vs a AR-15? 9mm vs 45? Any other calibers to consider? I enjoy firing my Colt 6450 and my latest PCC, ( .357 SIG AR ) uses the same Glock mags that my G31 and G32 use. While 9mm is obviously cheaper to shoot, I wanted a PCC that ran something hotter. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 10:24:22 PM EDT
[#19]
What's the appeal of a PCC? Go shoot one, you'll see. Hell, if you're ever down my way you can come shoot mine. They're a fucking hoot.
Quoted:
Buddy has a M16 and multiple uppers. 95% of the time it has a conversion block and a 9mm upper (4" barrel w/ integral suppressor to bring it to 16 in. "barrel" length) on it. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 10:58:07 PM EDT
[#20]
4" barrel to try and keep the 147grn stuff subsonic, the big suppressor for efficiency and how well it works. It actually looks like he has a full length free float tube on it, that just happens to go all the way to the muzzle. He also wanted the option of putting it on one of his many non-FA/SBR lowers. His build, he's happy with it, I like shooting it.
It isn't my place to tell him how to spend money, although I do offer tempting suggestions. That reminds me, I need to email him about the 1913 1911 I saw at a local shop last week... |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 11:00:00 PM EDT
[#21]
My 9X19 16" Colt pattern Is a pleasure to shoot, little recoil ( even compared to a 5.56 ) ,
VERY little muzzle blast ( so little.. that I don't think the muzzle brake does anything ) Cheaper then 5.56 to shoot and easier to reload for. I can use it on the "Action Ranges" ... so same manual of arms as my AR's. I can EASILY hit man sized targets at 100yds-125yds with just the red dot. Something different in an AR. All the younger kids love to shoot it... so I am "getting them into shooting sports". Bottom line... try one... you'll see why they are so much fun. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 12:23:31 AM EDT
[#22]
My PCC's are "game guns"....I use them for USPSA and Steel shoots. I have had more fun shooting in PCC devision then limited, SS, or production combined.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 12:51:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9mm with a 4.5" barrel is a lot of fun. 9mm with a 16" barrel doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather shoot 5.56 at that point.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 3:10:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I've never understood the appeal of the pistol caliber carbine. Help me understand. Pros and cons vs a AR-15? 9mm vs 45? Any other calibers to consider? I wonder if this has ever been asked before..... 
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Posted: 8/16/2017 3:56:07 AM EDT
[#25]
I look at my 9mm PCCs as a fun range toy that can actually be used as a tool if need be. Unlike a .22
They suppress very well, so I can shoot in places that I can't normally get away with. BLM land behind the sub division for example. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 8:51:48 AM EDT
[#26]
with the initiation of a PCC division for USPSA, like others have commented, it gives you a chance to shoot a long gun on a shooting range of limited distance, on a course of fire typically designed for pistols.... where 11m steel may be safely shot without damaging the target
from my perspective (almost 70 years old and wear bifocals) it allows me to shoot a shoulder fried dot gun, without needing to carry much more than a pistol mag reload in a pistol pouch... shooting in Florida in July and August is pretty damn hot... |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 9:18:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like my AR9 because it's cheaper to shoot than 5.56 but with the same manual of arms, control layout, etc.
OTOH, I'd rather have an MP5. But those are 2x-4x the price of an AR9. Kel-Tec Sub2k is worth a look as a trunk gun that will function with the same mags as your pistol (potentially). 
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:18:42 AM EDT
[#28]
I don't understand some who think that a PCC is not a choice for home defense. Based on my matches, I shoot it much faster and more accurately than my pistol. It is quieter. It holds more rounds. Very easy to shoot.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:26:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if this has ever been asked before.....
https://pics.me.me/admire-your-commitment-to-beating-a-dead-horse-somee-cards-18792067.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've never understood the appeal of the pistol caliber carbine. Help me understand. Pros and cons vs a AR-15? 9mm vs 45? Any other calibers to consider? I wonder if this has ever been asked before.....
https://pics.me.me/admire-your-commitment-to-beating-a-dead-horse-somee-cards-18792067.png If no one asked any of the same tired questions, no one here would have reason to re-post pics of their guns over and over and repeat the same 'sales pitch' as to why one is better than the other. 
In before the guy selling the delrin mag blocks pops in to advertise that he has blocks for both Glock and Colt style setups. Oh vey. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:37:19 AM EDT
[#30]
Wait - there's a Glock mag block actually shipping?
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Posted: 8/16/2017 12:01:43 PM EDT
[#31]
As it turns out, here on ARFCOM there is an entire technical Forum dedicated to nothing but the PCC!
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/48_Pistol-Caliber-Carbines.html As it also turns out, the Moderators here on ARFCOM appear to be too busy deciding whether or not some ones feelings will be hurt by a post than moving topics to the proper venue. MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 12:04:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As it turns out, here on ARFCOM there is an entire technical Forum dedicated to nothing but the PCC! http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/48_Pistol-Caliber-Carbines.html As it also turns out, the Moderators here on ARFCOM appear to be too busy deciding whether or not some ones feelings will be hurt by a post than moving topics to the proper venue. MHO, YMMV, etc.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 12:26:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Couple of things I like about PCCs in general.
1) I can shoot steel targets that are rated for handguns only with a rifle. 2) 9mm is a really good SBR caliber, specifically if you're wanting to SBR down to something PDW size (5.5 inch barrel, for example). 5.56 pretty much sucks out of barrels that short. You could probably get away with 300 blackout or 7.62x39 in a 7.5 inch barrel, but they'd both still suffer performance-wise (unless shooting subsonic 300s in which case it wouldn't matter), and once you get to 7.5 to 10.5 inches, you're no longer in PDW territory. 3) Cheap ammo. 4) If you ever want to do a carbine class, it's going to cost a lot less to feed a 9mm than a 5.56. They usually don't let you take reloads to these, but roughly $140 to $150 will buy a case of Wolf steel case ammo. If they'll allow it, you can sometimes score factory reloads / factory remanufactured ammo for a bit cheaper still. 5) USPSA has a PCC division now. 6) Slaps targets harder than 22lr when plinking recreationally. Makes it more entertaining when blasting empty coke cans. 7) They suppress well, if shooting suppressed is part of what you like to do. 8) Though the ammo is cheap, if I cast bullets for them, I can load them really cheap. I can load cast 147gr 9mm for the same cost as some 22lr (about 8 cpr, on par with CCI Std Vel). |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 1:51:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
2. Affordable ammo I can use in my pistol too 3. Low recoil 4. Excellent for teaching new shooters due to the low recoil and quiet report 5. Suppress better than a rifle (shit is quiet as hell, yo) 6. Generally pretty damn reliable 7. Easy to clean (most of them) 8. Fun as hell to shoot |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 3:21:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trunk gun? I carry it in my murse: http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/img/products/original/kel_tec_sub2000_semiauto_rifle_1302852_2.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I like my AR9 because it's cheaper to shoot than 5.56 but with the same manual of arms, control layout, etc.
OTOH, I'd rather have an MP5. But those are 2x-4x the price of an AR9. Kel-Tec Sub2k is worth a look as a trunk gun that will function with the same mags as your pistol (potentially). http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/img/products/original/kel_tec_sub2000_semiauto_rifle_1302852_2.jpg
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Posted: 8/16/2017 3:34:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For some shooters, the single biggest attraction of a PCC is that they can be used on indoor ranges which do not allow centerfire rifle cartridges. If you don't have your own range, and/or live in an area of the country where the weather is terrible much of the year, that can be a big deal. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 4:42:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And @Subnet can fit it in the Miata. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I like my AR9 because it's cheaper to shoot than 5.56 but with the same manual of arms, control layout, etc.
OTOH, I'd rather have an MP5. But those are 2x-4x the price of an AR9. Kel-Tec Sub2k is worth a look as a trunk gun that will function with the same mags as your pistol (potentially). http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/img/products/original/kel_tec_sub2000_semiauto_rifle_1302852_2.jpg 
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Posted: 8/16/2017 4:51:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Cheaper to shoot
My local range has a bunch of steel targets on the pistol side. I love ARs in all shapes and sizes My 9mm AR pistol has become my absolute favorite gun I've ever shot. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 5:16:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Miata has been replaced with a Mustang. 
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Posted: 8/16/2017 9:21:36 PM EDT
[#40]
For me, it's the fact that stuff like the pistol brace and binary triggers let me get 9/10ths of a submachine gun without paying SMG money. You can build a tiny gun that can be suppressed easily and shoot almost like a F/A or 2 round burst. Tons of fun.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 10:37:07 PM EDT
[#41]
I always said that I would never get a pistol caliber carbine unless it could be a suppressed SBR. Once supressors were allowed in my state, it went on the short list. Most people compare the report to the sound of a roofing nailer. I've never been sorry that I had it. It's just fun to shoot and always goes to the range with me.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:29:01 PM EDT
[#42]
For me it just plain old fun. Also my 9mm AR doesn't put out the blast that the the 556 does. Its even less blast than my 9mm hand gun. I often don't shoot beyond 100 yards so a 9mm AR is perfect.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:31:59 PM EDT
[#43]
I can shoot PCC classes in matches, especially local steel matches.
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Posted: 8/17/2017 1:49:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My PCC's are "game guns"....I use them for USPSA and Steel shoots. I have had more fun shooting in PCC devision then limited, SS, or production combined.
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Posted: 8/17/2017 9:21:11 AM EDT
[#45]
Alright you've all convinced me!
I will eventually build a PCC! Just waiting for that pesky thing called money
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Posted: 8/23/2017 6:23:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For some shooters, the single biggest attraction of a PCC is that they can be used on indoor ranges which do not allow centerfire rifle cartridges. If you don't have your own range, and/or live in an area of the country where the weather is terrible much of the year, that can be a big deal. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 6:30:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. Cheap 2. Affordable ammo I can use in my pistol too 3. Low recoil 4. Excellent for teaching new shooters due to the low recoil and quiet report 5. Suppress better than a rifle (shit is quiet as hell, yo) 6. Generally pretty damn reliable 7. Easy to clean (most of them) 8. Fun as hell to shoot 1. +1 reason I got one (not rim fire but cheaper than 556 especially if you don't mind stuff like blazer aluminum case on clearance .13 each) 2. +1 see reason 1 - also works with the better brass stuff and I use one of those velcro Caldwell brass catchers 3. +1 the spring makes some noise but I don't think it's as much recoil as a 16in 223 (my pcc is a pistol set up PSA glock AR9 with 12 in barrel) 4. +1 2nd main reason I got it (less blast out of Kak Can on muzzle at in door range seems to help minimize "perceived recoil" in my opinion.) (side note on 4 - few years ago when my kid was 11 he was able to shoot really well with the Beretta CX4 -rented at local range- because of the way it is balanced - it seems to piviot on the hang grip so not very front heavy... compared to an AR platform which was pretty front heavy for him... at that point even some of my 22lrs were front heavy for him... But the CX4 was great. If I could have found one then during the height of the gun ban scare a few years ago, I probably would have bought it. now he can hold the 556 for a mag or two but still likes the AR9. Built it cheaper than the Cx4 storm was at the time but i did not take the CX4 off the "wish list". 5. don't know personally but sounds good +1 6. +1 so far so good 7. +1 I don't really think that a typical ar is hard to clean, but this one is just a wipe down, few dropps of clp here and ther, and back to town. 8. +1 TOTALLY fun to shoot! |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 6:55:17 PM EDT
[#48]
I currently have a 16" and a 10" 9mm upper, and I'm thinking hard about one a little shorter, but I'm not sure if <6" or about 8" is where I want to go though. The carbine upper is (as bfoosh noted) really fun to shoot and quite easy to hit bullseyes at extended distances. The SBR upper is even more fun. I have a "do it all" SBR lower that runs like a top with a Rock River magazine block and Metalform, modified Uzi, and (yes!) old CProducts magazines, and a Glock-pattern lower (also SBR'd) that is just as much fun.
What about this "fun" thing? All of these combinations have a light recoil, low report and very good accuracy. I can feed them with anything from cheap Winchester White Box 115 grain stuff to handloaded 124 grain lead bullets to heavy bullets, and I'm not spending nearly as much per shot as with even cheap .223 ammunition. I get trigger time, sight alignment practice, and all the other things that go along with hitting the range, without any issues relating to "steel bullets," fire hazards, etc. In other words, I can shoot more for less money in more places. That is fun! |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 10:30:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My PCC's are "game guns"....I use them for USPSA and Steel shoots. I have had more fun shooting in PCC devision then limited, SS, or production combined. |
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Posted: 8/24/2017 9:27:59 AM EDT
[#50]
They are a blast to shoot! Here is my 9mm PCCO for Steel Challenge.
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