In case you've missed it, a good article which reinforces thoughts our members have voiced in this forum:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/keefe-report-ok-really-whats-going-on-with-22-rimfire

Enjoy,
Ted

aging??   this is what 87 thread on this same issues

Hey Luis, remember a few years back when you would post on the Spikes Forum
and people trashed you for your piss-poor English? Remember who came to your defense
and told those guys to shut-t-f-up? That's right, it was me.

So now you are soooo tolerant that you can be the wise guy now. I've got one thing to say;
I'm sorry that I ever had your back.

Ted

Gentlemen - we're in Tech, not in GD.

Oh really? Maybe I should make my point a bit clearer.

The link is intended to expand on the ongoing subject, which I had no idea had to have
a limit, "87" or otherwise. While English is my native language, it took me a little
more than five minutes to read the article and at least another 15 to explore the links,
many of which I hadn't seen and thought that others might find them interesting also.

Luis made his post, what, about a minute or two after mine (check the log)? I don't think
he even read the article and dismissed it out of hand, which other members had done to
him on numerous occasions. Each time I weighed in to support him and defend him.

I expected better from him, my mistake. Anyway, before pitching a bitch I'd at least like
to know that the reply to the effort I made came after the fact rather than before it.

That's all, thanks,
Ted

Interesting article OP... thanks for posting.

Interesting indeed. Plausible I suppose.





I havent seen any WM value packs on the shelf in years. My private range/club has recently developed a steady supply pf higher end 22, priced accordingly.



 

The article, which I read when it first came out, not because of this thread, is only partially accurate.  First of all, in my area, a number of retailers simply stopped selling guns and ammo.  One cannot buy that which is not sold.  They stopped selling because it was not available to them and they could not afford to have empty shelf space and expect to stay in business.

I sure hope this isn't true.....will be easy to see on Black Friday if it is

TIm

walmart

Ted:

First, thanks for all the great posts you have done over the years. I have learned much from this forum and from you. Your background is extensive and I have long seen you as a asset to this forum.

Second: This ammo thing is a mystery to me. I read this stuff and then try to figure out how much of it is true and how much the people involve make up. I have read in several sources that .22 ammo is being made in record amounts. Is the demand really that high? Do people really stock pile 100,000 rounds of .22 for a "rainy day"? Or, are the flippers really buying it up as fast as it hits the streets and then reselling it at a big profit? I know my local Wally World NEVER has .22 at all. They do have a good supply of .223, 9mm, etc. but no .22 ever! I have checked many time during the week days. The guys who work there are vague when asked about where it is. I have read credible accounts that there are Wally World workers who are making extra money by either buying it themselves and flipping it or that some get a "reward" when they hold it back for generous buyers who tip them for the service of obtaining it for them. I know one unscrupulous LGS that would cheat their own mother that seems to have plenty of those Walmart bulk packs in his location (just up the street from the biggest Walmart in town). Of course the price he charges is vastly more than what it goes for down the street. But as he smiles and says, "We have it, they don't".  Yeah, and we know why!

Last year they said this would all work out by Spring 2014. Here we are in the last quarter of 2014 and I have not seen things improve at all. Its a bad joke. And, if there are actually people out there with hundreds of thousands of rounds stocked up as I hear stories of....I hope the market on ammo collapses and you get caught holding the bag!  I know, we have all heard it, its a free market and people can do whatever they have money for. Well, it is. And I have chosen to never go back to the shop that is buying up all of Wally World's .22 and then marking it up 300-400%. I have overheard the owner bragging to his gun trading buddies how he screws old ladies out of their dead husband's gun collections for a small fraction of what they are worth and flips them for gigantic profits. Sorry, making a fair living is one thing, taking advantage of people is quite a different matter.

I hope we see .22 ammo again some day. My .22 firearms are taking a break and don't get much use right now. I am shooting a lot of 9mm as reloading components are pretty easy to find and prices reasonably.

Thank you, John, for the kind words. I've been worried as you've been
absent from the topic for some time...I hope you and family are well.

Back to the topic; while shopping in the Walmart closest to my home here in the Ozarks
I finally asked the employee at the gun/ammo counter about the .22 ammo situation. The
guy isn't the smartest man around and I think he's been doing exactly what you said. I
asked him where all the ammo was and he said he thought it was being hoarded and
that a guy comes in and buys up large amounts, just after telling me it comes in in small
lots. I asked how was that possible, with a 3 box restriction and how does the guy know
when to come in?  The reply was a "I dunno!"

At the many tri-state area gun shows there are always scalpers whose tables are full of
bulk pack .22 at huge markups. Sometimes as much as 50 cents a round! No thanks, there's
always the internet and that's how I buy these days.

When it comes to LGS's that have poor business morals you've hit the nerve. Yep. There
are plenty of those and I stay well away from them. I have a long memory: I'm good to those
who do right by me and have nothing to do with those that don't.

Ted

I get the point of the article, however I don't buy it 100%.












 

I finished this article last night.  I don't believe much of it for one simple fact.  The head sporting goods guy at my local Walmart simply told me they aren't getting any .22lr.  It just isn't being shipped anywhere in the system (for our area).  He said he hasn't seen any RIMFIRE ammo (including all flavors) in months and then it was just six bulk packs.  I honestly believe it isn't in the supply chain in the quantities we used to see.  Why I couldn't tell you.  

On a positive note, I was able to pick up some CCI Mini-Mags yesterday at LGS using up a store credit I had.  Better to have some in hand than none at all.

Not quite.  .22"LR has several unique features that have combined to cause the lack of retail availability.

a) - It's not very profitable.  There is a very small profit margin for manufacturers @ the current price points of .22"LR.
b) - Other products that can be produced w/ some of the same resources are more profitable - like primers, which are in huge demand right now.
c) - The demand for .22"LR is relatively price inflexible; ie, while some will pay much higher prices than before, many will not.  .22"LR is a relative luxury item, ie, it's for fun, and if you can't get it for your preferred price, you'll just shoot other calibers or go fishing.
d) - It's cheap enough to build an ammo fort out of, when you can get it.  Other calibers are too expensive for the average Joe to salt away.
e) - The longer the "shortage" continues, the more likely more folks will buy all they can when they can get it.  So while before Sandy Hook, you might buy one bulk pack a year, the next time you see some, you'll buy every box they'll let you get your hands on - thus prolonging the "shortage".
f) - Because of a - not profitable, and c - no significant price rises, no one's willing to invest in a new several million $ plant to build significantly more .22"LR.

TL;DR?  Primers are more profitable than .22"LR, and .22"LR is cheap enough to hoard.

As mainly an only-.22 shooter, I agree that "something is wrong." It's been forever and nothing has changed. I saw .22 in the local Walmart for the first time yesterday and they were asking 12 cents/rd. No thanks.

That said, I've never paid over 8 cents on Armslist. In fact, I just got a Rem Golden Bullets pack for 6 cents from someone who was consciously trying NOT to price gouge. I took his price right there without dickering just because I appreciated that.

Totally agree with the poster above who said this violates all the laws of supply and demand. I don't get it.

You just said you wouldn't pay $.12 a round for .22"LR.  Who wants to build a new plant if you're not willing to pay more for ammo?  How many thousands of rounds of .22"LR do you have?

I'm not sure they need to build a new plant, and besides, I'm free to decide what I will or will not pay for ammo. And I don't have thousands of rounds of .22lr. I buy a 500rd box when I can, shoot it, then go looking for more. No hoarding here, plus I'm a young guy who can't afford to stockpile, nor was I involved in shooting long before the recent craziness.

NEWSFLASH: Not everyone fits your stereotype.

I'm not stereotyping you, I'm asking questions.  Yes, you're free to decide what you'll pay for ammo.  And the fact that you're unwilling to pay significantly more - ie, price inflexibility - is what keeps ammo manufacturers from bringing more production capacity on line.  So the shortage doesn't violate all the laws of supply and demand.  The demand is price inflexible, and so manufacturers aren't willing to invest in something that won't make them a lot more money.

I do not know about other areas, but I do not have trouble getting .22 at Walmart. No it is not like the years of past and there everyday.. But if I watch I can get it. I just passed on the 1000 round boxes of Winchester M22 yesterday for 49.00 per the 1000.

I do not like Winchester .22 ammo. It does help I and my Brother have our own Business so I can go when I want to.

I bought CCI Standard Velocity there last Saturday when they had it all over in the Walmarts. I pick of Federal bulk occasionally too. And even the Remington 225 Golden packs. Wife's little SR22 handgun likes those. My Walmart only puts out .22 ammo at 9:00AM sharp. No sooner, no Later. And my online sources tell me when it is there.

I have a much harder time finding .380 for the Wife than .22.    Just traded some .22 for some of that for her. I have Plenty of .22, so the trade was easy and I came out ahead. None bought from Scalpers and I am proud of that. If others would not pay either they would cease to exist.

Bottom line is it is better than it has been in a long time. Now the profiteers will have a hard time profiting in large amounts, so it should end soon..

You think .22 is hard to find. Where is the .380?

You think .380 is hard to get, where is the .22 Mag ?

For what it's worth, I finally was able to snag 22lr at my Walmart. The reason it made it to the shelves - getting through all those who apparently don't have jobs and can sit in Walmart from 3 to 5 every day - was they said they have a stock pile for Black Friday, but figured they should get some of it on the shelves. CCI 40gr if curious.

20,000 rounds shrink-wrapped in the back isn't that much for a store like Wal-Mart

I haven't seen .22 at Walmart for over a year.
I talked with the Sporting goods clerk. He said even he isn't told when a shipment is coming any more.

So mean while, I just buy .223

Dave N

I haven't seen any in well over 2 years until last week.
Three box limit per customer.

I'm not paying $7.97 for 100 rounds of CCI standard velocity .22LR.

I finally saw 22lr at my walmart. I bought 10000 rds of the m22 and 333 rd of the bulk Winchester. I think I just got lucky they brought it out at 10 am.

I haven't seen a single round of .22lr at my Walmart since this started. That said, I'm not in there 3 or 4 times a week, looking. Have seen some elsewhere locally, but I'm not paying $8/50 rds of junk AE.

Fortunately, I was buying a brick every payday for a couple years prior & am sitting on 30K or so rounds. When bulk .22 starts showing up again, I will resume that practice. I'd been a full-time college student for the last 2 years, so haven't had much time to shoot until recently. This shortage isn't gonna change my shooting habits to any real degree, tho I'll not be shooting anymore rimfire steels matches till supply returns to something approaching normalcy.