Thinking of building a 9mm SBR AR for my very recoil adverse wife, questions inside.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thinking of building a 9mm SBR AR for my very recoil adverse wife, questions inside.

Posted: 8/28/2014 8:56:01 AM EDT

My wife, me and God love her, is VERY recoil sensitive. She never touched a gun till we started going out. She's a girlie girl and does not like the muzzle blast and recoil of any major caliber, handgun,rifle or shorgun. So I figured a PCC would be a way to get her eased into shooting and comfortable.

My plan is to build a 9mm SBR AR off a QC10 Glock lower and suppress it with an Octane 9. My questions follow.

THe only PCC I have ever shot was a 16 inch Group Uzi that weighed a ton. No recoil to speak of there. How do 9mm ARs with a 5 to 7 inch barrel compare? Does barrel length play into recoil much? Can we tinker with the buffer to mitigate whatever recoil there might be?

Non-DI ARs are new to me so I don't really have a frame of reference at all.

Any answers, stories or advice are greatly appreciated!

V6

Posted: 8/28/2014 9:24:43 AM EDT

[#1]

Personally, if you're trying to get her comfortable with shooting and handling a rifle, I'd start her with a 22lr...

Posted: 8/28/2014 9:33:18 AM EDT

[#2]

She has already gotten comfortable with the 22s, pistols and ARs. This is kinda "Baby step #2".

Posted: 8/28/2014 9:58:25 AM EDT

[#3]

PS90. Have one for the wife, and she loves it. Less recoil than a 9mm, and with the right ammo has more energy and can penetrate armor.

50 rounds don't hurt, and the secret service uses the full auto version.

Posted: 8/28/2014 11:19:21 AM EDT

[#4]

I have almost the exact gun you are looking to build. Recoil is not bad at all. The Octane 9 makes shooting it more pleasant and helps with the muzzle blast. Mine has a 4.5in barrel, so I can't comment on whether or not longer would have an impact on felt recoil. I will say, though, that mine is actually pretty heavy for its compact size, which helps with the recoil, as well.

Posted: 8/28/2014 11:28:33 AM EDT

[#5]

I could be in the minority but I think a 9mm AR kicks the same as a 5.56 AR.

I'd echo previous comments that starting her on a 22LR would be best, then as she builds a "tolerance" to shooting work her up to something larger. I've taken several "recoil sensitive" people shooting and they all love shooting 22's at first, then as they get more used to it they actively want to move up to something larger. If you ask me all "recoil sensitivity" is mental, unless the shooter has a disability. Getting them mentally over the first hurdle is the goal.

And to echo another comment I also have a PS90 SBR and my friends' and family's kids shoot it and LOVE it. If a 13 year old girl can light up folgers cans with my PS90, anyone can.

Posted: 8/28/2014 11:29:33 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
PS90. Have one for the wife, and she loves it. Less recoil than a 9mm, and with the right ammo has more energy and can penetrate armor.

50 rounds don't hurt, and the secret service uses the full auto version.

View Quote

But loud compared to a 9mm, especially when you get into the warmer SD ammo that you would want to use.
Maybe louder is the wrong word. "sharper" might be a better description.

Posted: 8/28/2014 11:33:54 AM EDT

[#7]

It is quite possible that the felt recoil on the 9mm AR is about the same as the 5.56 AR - I haven't really compared mine side-by-side. The muzzle blast is a big difference between a suppressed 9mm AR vs an unsuppressed 5.56 AR. What about a standard AR with a can as an option as well? I have shot a suppressed and unsuppressed AR side-by-side and the suppressed was much more pleasant to shoot -- whether or not the felt recoil was much different, I don't remember. It very well could be that the concussive muzzle blast adds to the perceived recoil of the firearm and a can would remedy that considerably.

Posted: 8/28/2014 12:24:50 PM EDT

[#8]

I think the 9mm blowback AR's are similar to a 5.56 in regards to recoil.

If you want something soft shooting. Maybe a MP5 clone or a PS90.

Would a DI 45acp upper have less recoil then a blow back 9mm? I would think it would, but I have no experience with the 45acp platform.

Posted: 8/28/2014 12:44:29 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think the 9mm blowback AR's are similar to a 5.56 in regards to recoil.

If you want something soft shooting. Maybe a MP5 clone or a PS90.

Would a DI 45acp upper have less recoil then a blow back 9mm? I would think it would, but I have no experience with the 45acp platform.

View Quote

Softer, more of a push, yes, at least with mine.

Here's mine when I was breaking it in.

Posted: 8/28/2014 1:08:46 PM EDT

[#10]

9mm ARs are blowback operated. It will recoil about the same as a 5.56 rifle, especially if suppressed. I own 3 9mm ARs.

Posted: 8/28/2014 1:14:04 PM EDT

[#11]

If you're going the suppressed route, then .300" Blackout, a lightweight BCG, and an adjustable gas block. Unless you go DI 9x19mm, you're not going to lower the recoil impulse much by going to 9x19mm, and I've heard 9x19mm doesn't run well in a DI AR.

Posted: 8/28/2014 1:46:26 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think the 9mm blowback AR's are similar to a 5.56 in regards to recoil.

If you want something soft shooting. Maybe a MP5 clone or a PS90.

Would a DI 45acp upper have less recoil then a blow back 9mm? I would think it would, but I have no experience with the 45acp platform.

View Quote

Yes they do.

Posted: 8/28/2014 11:44:06 PM EDT

[#13]

I'm failing to recall how much my 9mm AR kicks, must not be too bad though. They aren't light though, mine with a 4.5" barrel weight 8.3 pounds unloaded, the BCG and buffers are heavy. Running a JP 9mm Capture spring and silencer will also mitigate some of the recoil. I don't know what your budget is, but you might look at that Kriss Vector 45 SMG, it has that recoil system built it that is supposed to greatly reduce recoil. I think they run about $14-1500, maybe something to look at.

Posted: 8/29/2014 1:48:03 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm failing to recall how much my 9mm AR kicks, must not be too bad though. They aren't light though, mine with a 4.5" barrel weight 8.3 pounds unloaded, the BCG and buffers are heavy. Running a JP 9mm Capture spring and silencer will also mitigate some of the recoil. I don't know what your budget is, but you might look at that Kriss Vector 45 SMG, it has that recoil system built it that is supposed to greatly reduce recoil. I think they run about $14-1500, maybe something to look at.

View Quote

wat! There's no way! You need to give that pig a diet! Is that including the suppressor? (only 10-12oz)

Once I find a scale, I'll weigh my 4.5" 9mm SBR (without can)

Posted: 8/29/2014 2:23:16 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

wat! There's no way! You need to give that pig a diet! Is that including the suppressor? (only 10-12oz)

Once I find a scale, I'll weigh my 4.5" 9mm SBR (without can)

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm failing to recall how much my 9mm AR kicks, must not be too bad though. They aren't light though, mine with a 4.5" barrel weight 8.3 pounds unloaded, the BCG and buffers are heavy. Running a JP 9mm Capture spring and silencer will also mitigate some of the recoil. I don't know what your budget is, but you might look at that Kriss Vector 45 SMG, it has that recoil system built it that is supposed to greatly reduce recoil. I think they run about $14-1500, maybe something to look at.

wat! There's no way! You need to give that pig a diet! Is that including the suppressor? (only 10-12oz)

Once I find a scale, I'll weigh my 4.5" 9mm SBR (without can)

Sorry that's the loaded weight with a 32 round mag. It's still over 7lbs unloaded, which is pretty heavy for a gun with a 4.5" barrel.

Posted: 8/29/2014 10:54:52 PM EDT

[#16]

I built this rifle for local competition. Weighs 6.75 pounds without the magazine.

With standard rifle buffer and Wolff extra power spring, recoil is just about the same as my almost identical 5.56 rifle with a muzzle brake. Muzzle blast is almost non-existent, in fact RO has to have the timer very close to pick up the shots.

This one is 7.5 pounds without magazine, shoots like a .22LR. 13" Integral suppressor, 6.5" ported barrel with a standard 9mm buffer and Wolff extra power spring.

Posted: 9/1/2014 9:42:17 PM EDT

[#17]

+1 on the 9mm recoil is the same as 5.56.

However the muzzle blast is not. 9mm typically uses 1/5 as much powder and results is a much reduced muzzle blast. That makes it more pleasant to shoot.

Posted: 9/2/2014 3:24:53 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
9mm ARs are blowback operated. It will recoil about the same as a 5.56 rifle, especially if suppressed. I own 3 9mm ARs.

View Quote

I find mine recoils a bit more with the suppressor on just based on the increased back pressure. (running a 5.5" barrel with spikes heavy buffer and octane 9).

If you're looking for soft recoiling, I might look to a 20" AR with rifle buffer first.

Posted: 9/4/2014 8:35:55 PM EDT

[#19]

Most of what the recoil adverse complain about is not the recoil so much as the flash and blast, and noise.

So, she may well be better able to shoot a 9mm AR.

However, I have talked to at least one shooter who was having severe back/spine problems, and he claimed that the 9mm AR hurt him to shoot, where the .223 didn't. The recoil impulse between the two is different, even if the recoil is similar.

I keep a 9mm AR around because the chicks love them. They are pleasant to shoot, yet they still view it as a serious cartridge, not a .22.

Posted: 9/4/2014 10:05:17 PM EDT

[#20]

There is theoretically less energy in a blowback 9mm carbine's recoil than in a 5.56 rifle's, but it is spread out over a longer period of time and has some features the 5.56mm rifle lacks - the very heavy bolt makes its presence known at each end of its travel and some people think that's objectionable.

A short-short barrel will have MORE muzzle blast than a longer barrel. My 10.5" 9mm upper is quite mild compared to a 5" 9mm pistol. With a really short barrel, what you get with a 9mm SBR is essentially a pistol with a shoulder stock - not the best ambassador for pistol caliber shoulder-fired firearms.

I agree with AeroE - start with a .22 and work your way up to exposing your wife to a larger, more powerful firearm. She might just really like shooting if you start her that way...

Posted: 9/5/2014 12:47:16 PM EDT

[#21]

I'm running a RRA 9mm with 16" barrel and an 8.5 oz dedicated length buffer, shooting 115 gr factory reloads. Compared to my 14.5" midlength 5.56 (which is the lightest recoiling 5.56 I've ever shot) the 9mm actually seems to have slightly more kick. Muzzle jump is less and the blowback recoil seems to be spread out over a longer period so I'd still say it's more controllable than 5.56. And as mentioned above, for new shooters the muzzle blast/concussion can be intimidating, much less so in a 9mm blast. I'd definitely recommend a heavy dedicated buffer, changing from a standard length 5.4 oz buffer made quite a difference. And, for what it's worth, I've got 4 ARs in 5.56 (14.5" middy), 9mm, 7.62x39 (16" carbine) & 5.45x39 (16" carbine) and the 5.45 is the lightest shooter of the lot. I've heard a few say a Wolff Xtra power buffer spring will help smooth a 9mm out also, haven't tried one yet in my 9mm but dropped one in my 7.62x39 and it made a noticeable difference.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thinking of building a 9mm SBR AR for my very recoil adverse wife, questions inside.

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