Halt any new purchases from http://www.shop.doublediamondsupply.com/.

I am keeping all the information in this first post below for historical references.

It has been a few weeks since I have been on ARFCOM and I have talked with Jon or anyone with this.  My last communication with him was after a previous few week hiatus and I was catching up with PMs and posts.  This was after reading a post where the DDLES was absolved by a Judge.  This completely took me by surprise and Jon was busy when I tried to reach out to him.  A few days passed, and he called me.  Jon communicated to me that this was a complete surprise to him.  

I asked him what is going to happen?  What about the open orders?  What about the refunds?

Jon didn't have any answers to give me.  He said he still needed to figure it out; he had assets but he was locked from getting them and working with his attorneys accordingly.  Through our conversation, I told him he needs to do something.  He promised he would honor every single transaction one way or another.  I told him that would be appreciated, but the community didn't trust him.  People still had outstanding orders or refunds that he told the customers directly he would take care of (and me as well).  Since the conversation wasn't going anywhere, Jon said he would put a communication together and post here as well as calling each customer.

After reviewing all of my private messages and threads, I told customers privately to do what they needed to do to recover their money.  I also saw that most people were missing one of the following:

- BOLTS
- Barrels
- Uppers

Most were bolts.  People received their lowers, made their own uppers (some still have outstanding orders here), but had no bolts.  I figured I would try one more thing for the ARFCOM community; I have been trying to contact ADCO.  I was looking to have ADCO do a special deal for any of the DDLES customers who are left in the wind.  I have sent a few emails, left voice mails, and even spoke to a guy who once answered the call.  I have yet to get anywhere or even a response. I am not going to give up on this angle, as I think something nice could be done here.

This was a few weeks ago.  I haven't been in touch with Jon or anyone since.  I am trying to get caught up on the mass amounts of PMs.  At this point - I am not sure there is anything else I can do?  My recent engagement has been iffy at best, to which I apologize.  Everyone has a "life" outside of ARFCOM and their own issues, I am no different.  It has been communicated to a few and hinted some on this thread that I do have some medical issues - which is an absolute fact.  I am not going to go into details, as this isn't about me, but rather I will simply state that I am dying like everyone else is - just with some known timetables.  This is the reason you see me popping in and out, like a roller coaster.  My sincere apologizes for that; I cannot control it.

If anyone has any ideas, need information, or whatever - send me an email or private message.  I fully intent on exploring the bolt thing and offering another path for those people who are still missing theirs.  

Thanks,
Mike Haun










==========================================================================================================
Rules:I do not work for DDLES.  I am a customer trying to help organize updates for the ARFCOM Community.  Please read this first post completely.

While discussing the issue with Jon, we came up with an idea that will help everyone while Jon continues to focus on the business & fulfillment (see THIS POST):

- Post your order number in this thread.
- I will edit my original post in this thread with all the numbers from everyone on a regular basis (in the first post) in a list based format.
- I will speak with Jon on a regular basis to get an order status update and communicate that through either IM, Email or within the post (will determine method, depending on the amount of work it is)
- Order status updates may be more elementary at first (until hired staff comes in to help organize); new processes will be put in place to provide timely updates with tangible information.
- I will strikethrough the #'s in the post after it has been communicated.
- I will focus on order updates that have exceeded the DDLES posted 30-60 day wait period first.  If you post an order number after each cadence call with DDLES - I will do my best to start with the oldest order first, picking up your order on the next call.

3/5/14 : I am back!  Read below for how I can help.

First: I went MIA again due to health. This time it isn’t the best prognosis. I don't want to get into the various details, but rather just say simply that multiple medical institutions are trying to play god and put a limit on my existence. I appreciate their time, but have been engaged in the execution of my bucket list. While crass, ARFCOM and DD fell off that list. Yet, as I have been getting some strength and shooting more often, I have been drawn back to the forum. I have been hanging around the General section as it is much more light hearted and entertaining. Yukon caught me in one of those threads and told me to stay clear of this one. Up until that time, I didn't even click on the AR-15 forum header due to this thread and the amount of effort to it took to help others. Well, what do they say? Curiosity kills the cat? Ironic statement as I am curious and that curiosity won't be the thing that kills me....

Anyhow, I reached out to Jon yesterday. I asked how he and the company was doing and gave him an update to my world. I did that after reading this thread. I offered to Jon to see if he would be interested in partnering with me to help out the community again. He was very welcoming to that idea. I told him it would a little different this time, as I honestly do not have the physical capacity to try to do what I did before. We came to an agreement to what I could do to help, based on what I was seeing this thread:

Rules:

- I won't be providing order updates to the masses or status updates for anyone individually. I don't have the time to go through all of that and schedule calls with Jon or his associates to go through hundreds of orders.
- I won't be providing DDLES company updates, batch runs, inventory notices, etc.

- I will be looking for those individuals who have been in a limbo or bad situation.
- I will be working directly with Jon and those individuals to create an individual success plan. That would be either top priority product delivery, refunds, or whatever we come up with.

Round 1 qualification list:
- I want to tackle any people who qualify for the following:
--- Orders that have been placed on 6/1/13 or before--- Orders that have not been completely fulfilled
- I would like to get through and try to remediate all orders within this list by 4/1/14. At this point, we can go to round 2. Each round, I figure we can take a month off of the duration list until we get into a typical "3" month order cycle range.

To engage me:
- Send me a private message
- Include in that private message the following
-- Name (first / last)
-- City you live in
-- Telephone Number to be contacted
-- Order Number
-- What you ordered (I ask this to ensure that the electronic order system represents what you purchased)
- What have you done to get your order (wait, email Jon, etc.)

Thanks,
Mike

Great products and worth the wait. They have taken care of me on all my orders.

Alright, thanks. I guess that's why my September ordered upper still hasn't been fulfilled.

Thanks for the report, Mike.  This confirms my positive/causal demeanor to the situation at hand.  DDLES makes unique products that drew us to them and the reports from those that have them in hand have been mostly  inspiring.   There are threads that go back a year that say it's worth the wait.  On a selfish note,  I hope that it's still rings true that my vltor upper was/is on hand .  I should have my lower next week and will also post pics (in this thread) upon arrival.

Thanks for the update, much appreciated.
Sounds like Jon is working on a plan and I respect his decision to handle the increased production needs than to sit around and answer phones.

I've been waiting on an upper (part of a larger order through my LGS) since last July.  The excuses are getting tiresome - from just waiting for a barrel to just waiting on a couple small parts etc etc.  Now the shit blizzard throughout the industry - frankly I'll be shocked if/when they deliver.

I've been waiting on a lower that was ordered in August. My last communication with them was at the beginning of December.(Edit: I did receive an Advertising Email for Preordering lowers, go figure) They said my lower was off to coating. As of today I have no idea if that was true or not. I can also appreciate a nice sounding voice on the other end, but right now I'll take Gilbert Gottfried if he could tell me where my Lower is.

Just pre ordered a glock lower. Im prepared to wait just hope to be able to finish the build so that im not left with a paper weight

I bought a barrel that was in stock almost a month ago.  I was charged immediately and the stock decreased by one.  My order status is still "invoiced".  

I don't know why they can't take a barrel that's sitting on a shelf, drop it in a box, and mail it out.  It seems like shipping in-stock orders would be the low-hanging fruit, especially when they say they can't ship other orders because they're waiting on parts.

I'm counting down the days I have left to dispute the charge on my credit card (60 days from the statement date, according to Google), and will dispute the charge shortly before that window closes.  I highly recommend that anyone else who has ordered in-stock parts do the same, or risk being stuck with the charge, not getting your parts, and not being able to do anything about it.

I would recommend a few things:

1) Email DDLES if you haven't and tell them to cancel the order and refund the money if you wish to go a different direction.  Waiting until a date that you got from Google, instead of actually speaking to either DDLES or your credit card company seems - odd.  Either way, I understand your plight of paying for a product and expecting delivery.  Yet, it seems much more prudent to contact the vendor and/or your credit card company first to understand the process and show of general good faith.  Further, your reputable credit card company would most likely warrant for your protection outside of a government mandate (from your reference of the Fair Credit Billing Act, under the Billing Errors provision).  The prudent thing to do would be to contact them and outline the situation (purchased something, haven't received it, worried about not getting it, attempted to contact the vendor, etc.), annotate the account with their official recommendation.  Depending on what they say - make your appropriate decision.  I have gone through this process and will say that if you haven't attempting (not saying you did or didn't) to try to contact the vendor prior to a dispute will complicate matters with the credit card company itself.

2) Your recommendation to others for risk of not getting parts or not being able to do anything is slightly slanted and/or misinformed.  It is your opinion, but I believe in DDLES, as many others prior to the crisis, waited extended periods of time.  Add in the gun craze to the previously long waits - it makes things take even longer.

3) If you don't want to email DDLES, post up your order # here; I am sure Jon or Brooke or the new person they are hiring will look it up and get back to you.

4) This is totally a guess on my part, but from what I gathered on their website their Shopping Cart system is conducted through something like Authorize.net (based on the "addtocart.sc" page and knowing the online business).  With that being said, it can be setup many different ways; ultimately though - all transactions are batched to process at the end of the day.  I am guessing that either DDLES is auto-processing (normal activity for many online systems) to charge the banks and fund the merchant.  Sometimes this can get out of sorts because if a sale occurs outside of the online system or inventory management - the website "inventory" isn't updated and over-ordering has occurred.  Right now - this is occurring all over the place as also seen here on ARFCom; there was a thread in the reloading section where Midway or something had 6k bullets and many people ordered it while in-stock, only to find out later it was sold out and they were put on a back order.  The main difference in that situation vs. this one is that Midway has their processes and business resources in a more mature state, so that they were able to notify the customer when this occurred.  This is hypothetical to if this situation has occurred with DDLES, but I am guessing I am not very far off.  One thing I have seen from DDLES - if they have it they ship it.  Either way, this is growing pains for a small company; I believe Jon would be the first to admit that improvement is needed here.  I seriously doubt this would have been an issue for you, me or anyone else - if the industry wouldn't have been turned upside down.  Again, this is just my opinion though based on what I know of online systems, DDLES and what I have observed in general (for what it is worth).

Either way - good luck!  I am going to take some pictures of my DDLES lower now; I finger f**ked it all night! This made the wife a little jealous.

Mike

I emailed them many times.  The one response I finally got was that they couldn't give me an ETA.  This was for an in-stock barrel that they should be able to take off the shelf, drop in a box, and ship.  And I don't want a refund.  I want them to ship the barrel I paid for.


Actually, my recommendation is very prudent.  If someone buys something, and they don't get that item and don't dispute the charge by the time their dispute window closes, they're on their own.  They'll still be expected to pay the credit card company, but that credit card company will have no obligation to lift a finger for them.  They could sue the merchant, but that's really about it.  Maybe their credit card company would still help them - but that's at their discretion.  This isn't about gun crazes or long waits - it's about only having a limited window of time to dispute a charge for an item you don't receive.  After that window closes you're screwed if, for whatever reason, the merchant can't deliver.

So if folks like gambling that nobody gets hit by a bus, goes bankrupt, has their building destroyed by fire or flood, etc, then they needn't worry about finding out when their dispute window closes.  Me, I'm not a gambler.  So if the barrel hasn't arrived as that dispute window is about to close, I'll be calling my credit card company.  Again, I'd really prefer for them to take my barrel off the shelf, put it in a box, and mail it to me.  Hopefully they can find someone to do that within the next 30 or so days.

Anyone else in the same boat, I suggest you find out how much longer you have to dispute your charge.  As they say - Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Like I mentioned, I personally wouldn't rely solely on the Fair Credit Billing Act provision.  Be wise, contact your credit card company and ask to speak to the dispute department for guidence on their policies when handling these types of situations, or email DDLES and tell them to cancel.  Don't think that you are automatically protected under the Fraudulent Charges provision either.  Each credit card may have a different policy for your protection; therefore if you are worried about DDLES going out of business and NOT just being impatient - call them and find out how long you are covered for.  For example:



I will let you do your own research on the subject, but suggest you read a few things more (start with the FTC site: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre28.shtm).  Or do as you planned...  .  I have full confidence with Jon @ DDLES and believe I will receive the product I ordered.  It might not be in the timeline I would like, whereas my impatience sometimes gnaws on me - but I do believe I will get it.  If I didn't feel like I would get it, I wouldn't make dispute comments; I would contact DDLES and have them cancel the order immediately.  If they didn't, then I would go through the CC company for a chargeback.  Either way, good luck and I hope it works out for you.

Mike

yeah i think trek45 is on the right track here.

we don't really care about everyone problems.  we all got em, deal with it.  if he ordered an in-stock part that long ago, it should have been shipped or refunded.  if it wasn't in stock they should have refunded or notified him of the error.

FFLs and businesses in general like to charge first ask questions later.  this isn't an unethical practice by any means, but as a business owner it puts you "on the hook" to deliver if you accept payment immediately.  if their business was so busy (which i have no doubt it is) they should have stopped taking orders until those whose orders were paid in full were fulfilled.  don't bite off more than you can chew

ETA:  those businesses that recognize a problem like this, and notify their customers are respected for it, those that don't recognize it will be judged by the market accordingly.

Nothing pisses me off more than someone tying up my money for weeks or months at a time without explanation or acknowledgement.

I know your just trying to help, but I think in trek45's case, he just wants his barrel, or his money, in that order, asap

Based on what you're saying, it sounds to me like that barrel isn't actually in stock.  I mean, maybe it was identified as in stock when you ordered it... or maybe "misidentified" as in stock would be a better way to say it.

Anyway, did they say that they have the barrel in hand, it's not committed to anyone else, and they're still not shipping it to you?

This is what their website says right now for 3.75" 9x19mm barrels (as an example):


When I ordered my barrel, it said the one I wanted was in stock, and after placing the order the number available went down by one.  If they're not in stock, then I would question why the website said they were, and why my credit card was charged immediately.

And DDLES may be a great company with good intentions, but even people with the best intentions get hit by buses every now and then.  That's why I'm not willing to wait until I can no longer dispute the charge.  I'll wait until the end of that dispute window approaches, but then I'll have no choice but to dispute the charge.  It's a simple business decision for me.

Hell, I'd be thrilled if they offered an option on their website that, for $10 or whatever, they'd walk over to the shelf that my barrel is sitting on, put it in a box, slap a label on it, and drop it in the mail.  All in a reasonable timeframe, of course.

I called my CC card and they informed me that they did not have a window to dispute charges.  That was Citi-Bank.  

I placed my upper order on 12/19 and talked to Jon directly to place it.  He said the exact configuration I wanted was not in stock so I just ordered a similar setup of what he had "in stock".  He told me it might be about a month but given there are guys posting here that have been waiting since Sept. for uppers, I may be SOL for a long time.  Why would the guy say a time frame that he knows he can not deliver?  

Going to stay patient for now because I got the lower with the extra work on it to match up with a VLTOR upper.  Just wish they would get some comms up.  They got my address wrong on the invoice and I have e-mailed them to correct it but they have not replied to confirm the correction.  

If they catch this please shoot an e-mail or something.     order #3229

Why was I told 4 times in the last 4 months my lower would ship in two weeks, why does their web site still show 30  - 60 days for delivery on the same lower I've been waiting over 4 months for. Honesty breeds trust, how they are doing things doesn't do anything to easy peoples minds.

So I'm not convinced that the current panic is entirely responsible for the delay I'm experiencing with my "in stock" barrel.  This thread is from before the panic:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_15/587476_DDLES_Delivery_Wait.html

Some of the posters in that thread are also in this one, but this is what I found disturbing:


If I had read that thread or any of the other DDLES threads first, I absolutely, positively wouldn't have placed my order.  Now I'll just hope they ship before I have to call my credit card company.

Live and learn.

I'm glad my words made it to someone even if it was too late.

I did get my barrel and it's awesome. It's too bad I had to wait so long while being told  "2 more weeks" multiple times. I honestly think these guys are just way too slammed with work to keep up. Honestly if I'd known, I would have planned my build around the 8.5" barrel from CMMG. They had em in stock, ready to ship.

Yeah, I've learned to research these little guys much more before ordering.  Like an idiot, I thought that "in stock" meant they'd take it off the shelf, put it in a box, and slap a shipping label on it in less than a month.  But they don't need to because (also like an idiot), I'm letting them keep my money even though they haven't sent me a product.  Well, for now anyway.

How long did it eventually take for you to get your barrel?

FWIW, the reason I went with DDLES was because the barrel is threaded 1/2x28 and was "in stock" when I ordered.

4 Months. That was before the latest crap that's been going on.

No doubt.  This past fall in OK LOKI weapon systems went out of business and jobbed a bunch of guys.  I nearly got screwed by a group buy with them that started last Feb.  I picked up my lower in like Oct. and they were down and out in Nov.    

If this DDLES deal goes on long enough I can source the MUR upper, barrel, and a glock bolt on my own, I'm cancelling and doing it my damned self.  

I'm still waiting on my Glock modified bolt carrier from DDLES. I saw that they were slow when it came to uppers. So I opted to build my own instead. Glad I did when I did. I put a BCM 9mm barrel that I got from G&R Tactical into a VLTOR MUR1 upper with a 7" Noveske NSR rail. The barrel was cut down to 7.75", profiled to .625" and threaded to 36mm x 1/2" for a Vortex 9mm flash suppressor.

Now I'm just stuck waiting on the bolt carrier. I've heard all the lies as well. I heard, "should be in next week," since November.

I feel your pain.

Is VLTOR who they are getting their BCGs from?

It sure would be nice if companies, not just this one, would say we have X number of orders back ordered and you are number Y on that list.

Isn't there a PSA thread that is doing something like that. They are pretty responsive, but they are much bigger too

Holy shit and I thought it was only me! I'M DONE, just asked for a full refund. 130 days and nothing.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/601074_Double_Diamond_lower_delay_again___.html

Quite the coincidence - my LGS got a tracking email today.  Upper is inbound.

I ordered an upper, barrel, and bolt way before the panic #2895, 10/3/12, 3 weeks later i spoke with Jon he said he was waiting for the barrels then in early December, I sent an email threatening to dispute charges on my CC due to non-shipment in mid december, they said they were 2 weeks out. Now they wont reply to emails or calls. If you take my money 1st, I do not care how busy it is, or the panic, you do not do business like this. Next week I will dispute the charges for non-shipment if i dont hear anything from them.
Dont get me wrong, I have their completed lower ready the workmanship is top notch, but waiting this long for just an upper, barrel and a bolt is ridiculous since i ordered this in OCTOBER 3,2012.

DDLES please give me an update - Order#2895

IMO it's a pretty simple request that would take all of a few seconds to do. Unless their order system is a stack full of unorganized papers.

nevermind

At this point considering the environment. I'm have no problems waiting to get the remaining part for my build. I thought about picking up a CMMG or YHM BCG, but they are no where to be found. At least the prices I have locked in aren't like that of gouged ones like everywhere else.

Glad we are hearing some things from DDLES.

I spoke with Jon again today and heard some good news on a bunch of things; I will wait to communicate some of those elements - but we did discuss the firearm industry, DDLES successes and challenges, buyer’s perception, and a few other thoughts that I had.  It is a sweet and sour thing all together really - the sweet component being that if Jon had the time to talk to everyone out there, I would imagine everyone would be content with the situation and have 100% confidence in DDLES as a whole.  The sour piece being that Jon does not have the time to speak to everyone, else product wouldn't be manufactured or secured, the business wouldn't be managed, shipping would have challenges, etc.  

Last year I made a large order through DDLES, and therefore I do have a personal expressed interest that DDLES is successful and will support the multiple products that I have purchased (I have only received some parts BTW, waiting like everyone else).  The fear mentioned in this thread by others is one I personally have gone through with other vendors on other purchases.  Take for example a recent purchase I made; Lakeside Razorback Upper with a full auto bolt and sear trip for my AR15.  I love the product! Yet, it is also finicky and sometimes requires support.  Eric and Michelle who run Lakeside are closing shop as they are letting their SOT/FFL expire.  They are calling it "early retirement". DDLES is very far from that point as their business is growing very fast, but someone who has put a lot of $$ in a few product I want to make sure that Jon doesn't go into retirement like Eric & Michelle!

While discussing the issue with Jon, we came up with an idea that will help everyone while Jon rectifies the situation and matures the business model appropriately:

- Post your order number in this thread.
- I will edit my original post in this thread with all the numbers from everyone on a regular basis (in the first post) in a list based format.
- I will speak with Jon on a regular basis to get an order status update and communicate that through either IM, Email or within the post (will determine method, depending on the amount of work it is)
- Order status updates may be more elementary at first (until hired staff comes in to help organize); new processes will be put in place to provide timely updates with tangible information.
- I will strikethrough the #'s in the post after it has been communicated.

I will also post random updates to things as it comes (i.e. XYZ part is backordered from external vendor, eta is MM/YY or ABC part is blah blah).

Thanks,
Mike

Thanks for taking initiative, my order number is 0000003609. I expect it to take more then a couple months but it would be interesting to know where my order stands.

Thanks Mike

Invoice ID: 0000003060

Order Date: Sun,  Nov 11, 2012 00:25:02

Does that mean I'm next?  I'll take whatever communication that's available.  I think I'm past a dispute with my CC and really have no choice but to put my faith in 'Honor'.

Invoice# 0000002840

Invoice Date: 09/18/2012 14:36:09

I think this is the same week the large frame lowers went live on their site.  In all fairness, if there's someone with an order date prior to mine, they should get thiers first.  My purchase date is pretty old.

Good deal Mike!  Thank you!

Invoice ID: 0000003230
               &
Invoice ID: 0000003352

I'll play Mike. Order 2841


Thanks.

Greetings,

Thank you Mike!


 Order # 3529    12-31-12

Regards, Jim

(edited to correct wrong date)

Invoice ID: 0000002752
 
Order Date: Tue,  Aug 28, 2012 16:32:12

Thanks Mike

My order is #3692.  Any info would be great.

Thanks for doing this.

BTW, how are you getting in touch with him?

I have a minor but important change to my order but I have no reliable way of getting that information over.  Any suggestions?  I was actually considering sending it snail mail. I know... but what other options are there?  I'm trying to avoid a situation where I wait months and months for the wrong part.  If I'm going to wait a couple months, I at least want to get the right part.

I will PM you.

Thanks,
Mike

Awesome...

Invoice ID: 0000003193

Order Date: Tue,  Dec 11, 2012 17:38:29

Invoice ID: 0000003113
 
Order Date: Wed,  Nov 21, 2012 22:00:54

1    | BB-9x19-GS        | AR15 Pistol Caliber Bolt                   |    $199.95  |     $229.95  
Caliber: 9x19mm                                                        
Magazine type: Glock small frame  +$30.00

Invoice# 0000003229
Invoice Date: 12/17/2012 09:43:07

The address on my invoice has a slight error.  I have emailed about the issue but no response.  Would be nice to at least get confirmation that the address got updated so my $hit doesn't get lost in shipping.

Got yours added to the front page from an earlier post.  I also sent you a PM regarding your address issue.

Thanks,
Mike

Get some more good stuff in this thread.  Here are some pictures of my lower that came in.

Bolt release


Glock Mag installed - showing bullet angle



Photoshopped SN/Last name out (under-exposed - sorry!)


Left side:

Order #3645 - any insight on time frame is appreciated.
The order consists of two small frame Glock lowers and one 9mm BCG

Red-Rx7:
Who's bolt release is that? DDLES?

Yep.  DDLES.