I'll add both for things to look at when I get back on this real hard. I'll loom for some rounds and a mag so I can have it on hand.

Well I've been waiting on a reply for a 3D printer rep that is printing me some sample parts of the pieces for this, but haven't heard anything from him yet.

I pre-ordered a couple of M3 mags tonight at regular price, should be in in a few weeks, then I'll start looking at any changes needed from Gen 2 to Gen 3 mags.

Other than that, nothing new. Been working on other people projects and was recently out of town two a couple weeks for training.

It's kinda off topic, but the 5.45x39 community needs a better feeding magazine.  The PMAG modification trick is hit or miss with some shooters.  I'll take a better polymer Colt pattern 9mm AR mag while you're at it too.

Guess what? I have a small surprise for some of you. Will post more later.

I am very interested in this project.  Especially since I am currently waiting on my DI 45 upper from Mad-Machinist.  
Putting 10 rounds of 45 in a 20 round Pmag body, sounds like a big win for me.

I'll be following this closely!

Oh snap!  Please take some 9mm and 7.62x25 factory ammo and see how those work with this, because I think you might have just hit pay dirt!!!  I have a nagging suspicion both of those might just work double stack with the internals you show there!  Plus - depending on how long of a loaded length your insert allows - you might also check on the 50AE and 44 AMP..... oh and the 475 Wildey!

7.62x25 might not like the straight stack, BUT it would be nothing to simply shape a curve into the back of the insert.  But the concept itself rocks - one mag, different inserts for different calibers.  Make a set for 7.62x25 in a GI 30 rounder and I'll buy 10 at least.

MartytW:
I know 9mm should work because the O.D. of it and .223 are close, so the outside spreading should stay minimum. I have a handful of 9mm I keep for this project to test fit and all that with. I haven't found any 7.62x25 locally, but am still looking before ordering online and paying shipping. I can't remember what the allowed O.A.L. is, but I went as far foward to where there is just a little bit of material right before the mag bump that pre-centers the .223. I figured if I got all that right then adding material behind it wouldn't be a problem since it is pretty much straight walls after that. I will pull it up tonight at the house and see what that number is again.

R2point0:
You are right about adding material on the back to make is curvish. The actual concept is to have one insert rather than multiple inserts. I have adding a note for different followers for different diameter rounds, but may have to do different inserts as well for better reliability for the feed ramp. Messing with this the other day I did notice that the feed ramp I done isn't low enough for 45, the case catches just a little bit. I also didn't send the latest file to the guy that got the parts printed. I had added a decent radius all on the back of the feed ramp to remedy any possible problems, but the file I sent didn't have that or my information on the side in the cut outs like I planned on putting. I did think of another way to cut down on actual parts, but will work on that later since it will be a completely new project to start on. I also plan to get the PMag version finished up before starting on the GI mag stuff, but I promise it is on my to do list.



Also, I think people may have noticed, but just in case you didn't. I haven't done a follower yet. The reason for this is because I am still researching the best position to put the bump part to keep the bullets from trying to spread out. If you want to know what I'm talking about, stick about 6 rounds of 45 in a mag and you will notice some spreading going on. This causes the mags to be tight in the mag well and well as creates a possible shooting out problem if it spreads enough to let a round pass the mag lips. I have almost finished all that stuff up though.

I also need to update a few numbers on the body filler as i didn't quite make the cutout deep enough on the bottom for the floor plate holder to clear the floor plate when press in to disassemble. That is why I didn't add any pics of that together. The sucky thing is, it only needs like another 1/16" to completely clear.


So to sum it up right now on the PMag version I need to:
Finish adding the information I want to add on the side to identify the part.
Update the feed ramp with either lowering the back and radiusing the profile of it or change the profile altogether.
Removing a little more material for the floor plate holder cutout.
Start and finish the follower and get a part printed to test function.
Add multiple followers to accommodate various calibers.
Start a KickStart project to raise funds for either a 3D Printer or to get a plastic injection mold manufactured. (BTW, on that note I won't be doing it myself as today is my last day at this job More money here I come)
Get the parts patented can't have someone stealing the idea

You have an IM.

Bumpity bump

It's hard to believe it's been a month already. Haven't touched any CAD stuff since I've moved down here and really need to get back on it. Thanks for the bump.

I don't think buying a $12 magazine and then another $__ magazine insert makes sense.  I would rather just buy 1 magazine and be done with it instead of having to take apart a new mag and insert the guts from another and store the old springs & followers somewhere (they take up a lot of space and get messy when there are lots of them together).  

I would more likely opt for a complete product that fits the standard 30 round mag pouch instead of swap out components.

Consider that there are ample dedicated lowers that run pistol calibers (Colt style, DDLES Glock style etc.) and these owners will not buy into your idea because their magwells won't work.  You have eliminated a big chunk of your potential market already that may or may not be offset by the newcomers you attract to the pistol calibers.

You are going to be limited on capacity compared to the double stack magazines that protrude further.  If I am limited to 15 or 20 rounds when I can get 30+ in dedicated mags, I will opt for the dedicated mags because pistol calibers are cheaper to load for and I enjoy having the capacity to dump for fun and training purposes.

Having cross compatibility with magazines when shooting .223 to 9mm or .45 is not a concern or need I have.  I will never run around with mag springs with followers hanging out of my pocket on a carbine course or any other training so that I can take 2 minutes to swap guts and then 2 minutes to load the magazine and then 30 seconds to swap uppers.  Magazines will be complete and loaded if I am going to use them otherwise I have defeated the purpose they serve.

Multiple ejectors hanging off each of my mags sounds like a nightmare for snags and potential breakage.  When there is only one inside my rifle where it doesn't snag unless the rifle is broken down, I have no issues.


My personal opinion is to have a company besides Metalform make consistently useable magazines dedicated to the Colt style Pistol Calibers.  I won't buy C Products or ASC or whatever they call themselves now because they are too inconsistent on reliability.  I won't buy Promag for the same reason even though I like polymer mags.

I also own an Olympic 9mm upper (in addition to the Colt style 9mm upper) and they give you options for Sten Mag adapters or their factory mags (which are expensive, but work in standard magwells without an adapter) which was the best of both worlds when Sten mags were cheap and plentiful (now Tapco offers MPA mags that can work with the Sten mag adapter).  The advantage to that design is the ejector is built into the upper.


Sorry to be a buzzkill as I applaud the ingenuity and love seeing new AR products.  This one just isn't for me.

Not to sound like an ass, but if you had read the entire thread, somewhere in there I did state that if all goes well and this takes off, that I will offer magazines that have already been "converted". Therefore, there would be no need in having to keep up with extra parts.



I have considered that there are other companies out there that make dedicated lowers for pistol calibers. However, that is not that this project is about. This project is about opening a venue for those that are not into having several dedicated lowers, as some simply don't have that kind of free money or have no interest period of owning those type lowers. But as R2point0 stated, I wouldn't consider what is out there ample. Off the top of my head I can actually only thing of 6 companies that make a dedicated pistol caliber lower, there may be more but I'm not looking into it.



I know there will be limited capacity, but some are worried about capacity all that much. Most people I know that have certain firearms have them because of pure interested. An example would be like my interest in getting a 300 BLK barrel for my T/C Encore. While yes I have an AR that will have a capacity of 1-100 rounds, I have an interest of having a collection of certain caliber barrels for my Encore. Also, as stated above, this project isn't about what's already out there, it's about something new. As far as possible training purposes, I know having this project come through could help some as some like to train with items that are similar to what they would use in real life. You simply wouldn't get that with a "stick" mag like the grease gun mags when trying to train in using and manipulating an AR. Having the shapes and sizes are more important than the capacity of such items.



I'm with R2point0 on this one, I'm not really sure where this has anything to do with the project. The whole point isn't have be able to change calibers in the field, it's to have an option of using a standard magwell without adapters in the lower. Say I had a field day with some friends and I have a .223 and a 9mm upper. Well most likely I would have to put in a magwell adapter for the 9mm and then change the upper. With this project, there is no need in changing the magwell with adapters, the magazine already does that for you.



One reason it has taken me this long in some of my updates is changing small things that will have reliability. I have measured and measured until the fit of certain things are spot on with zero assistance from Magpul. I will NOT release anything until I know it will perform as intended and as well if not better than what is already out there. That is the reason I have chosen Magpul's mags over any other polymer mag out there. Yes, I do plan to do this project for GI mags as well, but only after finishing the PMag version first. But again, your focus is on dedicated lowers while mine is not.



Not a buzzkill at all. Criticism, whether positive or negative, is good. It let's me know what people are thinking and looking for out there. As you stated and R2point0 restated, this just isn't for you, but I do appreciate that you took the time to post your thoughts and I hope that you respect what I have replied with. I also love seeing the ingenuity that some people are showing with new AR products and without this thread or the copy thread in the Magazine section, I may not have thought of some of things that have been mentioned that I have added to the list of "to-dos" with this project. I for one never had any interest in the 7.62x25 round, so I would have never thought to come up with a version that will work with that round without this thread.

I just recalled your comment on having to buy some 762x25 to check fit - Brownells used to have dummy rounds, pretty plastic orange or yellow ones.  I have used and abused those for fit testing, etc with great effect.  I recall them being cheap as well.  Might be worth considering so you don't have stray ammo (with no matching firearm) filling jars on your bench.  Since I develop and design ammo, I tend to have the weirdest things laying around so a moot point for me....

I guess you could always "print" a couple of rounds....

I don't think buying a $12 magazine and then another $__ magazine insert makes sense.  I would rather just buy 1 magazine and be done with it instead of having to take apart a new mag and insert the guts from another and store the old springs & followers somewhere (they take up a lot of space and get messy when there are lots of them together).  

I would more likely opt for a complete product that fits the standard 30 round mag pouch instead of swap out components.

And where would I buy such an item?

Not to sound like an ass, but if you had read the entire thread, somewhere in there I did state that if all goes well and this takes off, that I will offer magazines that have already been "converted". Therefore, there would be no need in having to keep up with extra parts.

My opinion is that if I pay for something that has utility as a PMag does, it doesn't make sense to throw half of it away or just store the spring and follower.  I would rather not pay for something twice.  If this were my endeavor, I would definitely look into getting wholesale Magpul bodies and floor plates in bulk and offering them with your product as a completed unit.

Consider that there are ample dedicated lowers that run pistol calibers (Colt style, DDLES Glock style etc.) and these owners will not buy into your idea because their magwells won't work.  You have eliminated a big chunk of your potential market already that may or may not be offset by the newcomers you attract to the pistol calibers.

I'm not sure I'd consider a low volume product from a major supplier and a niche manufacturer "ample".

I have considered that there are other companies out there that make dedicated lowers for pistol calibers. However, that is not that this project is about. This project is about opening a venue for those that are not into having several dedicated lowers, as some simply don't have that kind of free money or have no interest period of owning those type lowers. But as R2point0 stated, I wouldn't consider what is out there ample. Off the top of my head I can actually only thing of 6 companies that make a dedicated pistol caliber lower, there may be more but I'm not looking into it.

My SBR is a CMMG dedicated as I sold my Spikes block for higher than the price of a blem CMMG 9mm lower.  I originally only had one lower SBR'ed but have since put paperwork and money down on two more stamps so that I can have dedicated lowers for each of my short barreled uppers.  Since I have to replace the buffer in the lower and if my carrier isn't ramped, the FCG also, it isn't just a quick transition of magazines that I have to swap out to convert my lower to 9mm compatibility.  Olympic has its design and acceptance issues, but it only requires an upper swap and magazine or magazine/magblock.

You are going to be limited on capacity compared to the double stack magazines that protrude further.  If I am limited to 15 or 20 rounds when I can get 30+ in dedicated mags, I will opt for the dedicated mags because pistol calibers are cheaper to load for and I enjoy having the capacity to dump for fun and training purposes.

Again, who makes such a beast?

Olympic Arms - they only work for their uppers though as they are a different design than the Colt.  You have the option of Sten mags with a block or Oly mags without.  Again, this design offers quick transition on the same lower without swapping buffers or FCG.

I know there will be limited capacity, but some are worried about capacity all that much. Most people I know that have certain firearms have them because of pure interested. An example would be like my interest in getting a 300 BLK barrel for my T/C Encore. While yes I have an AR that will have a capacity of 1-100 rounds, I have an interest of having a collection of certain caliber barrels for my Encore. Also, as stated above, this project isn't about what's already out there, it's about something new. As far as possible training purposes, I know having this project come through could help some as some like to train with items that are similar to what they would use in real life. You simply wouldn't get that with a "stick" mag like the grease gun mags when trying to train in using and manipulating an AR. Having the shapes and sizes are more important than the capacity of such items.

Having cross compatibility with magazines when shooting .223 to 9mm or .45 is not a concern or need I have.  I will never run around with mag springs with followers hanging out of my pocket on a carbine course or any other training so that I can take 2 minutes to swap guts and then 2 minutes to load the magazine and then 30 seconds to swap uppers.  Magazines will be complete and loaded if I am going to use them otherwise I have defeated the purpose they serve.

Multiple ejectors hanging off each of my mags sounds like a nightmare for snags and potential breakage.  When there is only one inside my rifle where it doesn't snag unless the rifle is broken down, I have no issues.

Perhaps I am showing my ignorance, but why would one have any need to switch calibers on the fly at all?

I'm with R2point0 on this one, I'm not really sure where this has anything to do with the project. The whole point isn't have be able to change calibers in the field, it's to have an option of using a standard magwell without adapters in the lower. Say I had a field day with some friends and I have a .223 and a 9mm upper. Well most likely I would have to put in a magwell adapter for the 9mm and then change the upper. With this project, there is no need in changing the magwell with adapters, the magazine already does that for you.

Then if that is not an advantage, it makes more sense to make a complete magazine so you don't buy springs and followers twice if you aren't ever going to use the .223/5.56 version in your PMag.  After a certain number of injection molded pieces are produced, the spring is the most expensive part of the magazine.  If Magpul sells replacement bodies, then it is a great idea as I would only buy the bodies instead of extraneous parts that I don't get to use.  If I have mags in my collection dedicated for my .223/5.56, why would I want to make them not useable for my intended purpose?  I would then have to go an buy new ones to replace the one I used in my pistol calibers.

My personal opinion is to have a company besides Metalform make consistently useable magazines dedicated to the Colt style Pistol Calibers.  I won't buy C Products or ASC or whatever they call themselves now because they are too inconsistent on reliability.  I won't buy Promag for the same reason even though I like polymer mags.

Can you make that happen?

Nowhere did I say that I have the capital or inclination to get into the magazine business.  Metalform magazines are more expensive than the inconsistent competition, but they suit my needs.

One reason it has taken me this long in some of my updates is changing small things that will have reliability. I have measured and measured until the fit of certain things are spot on with zero assistance from Magpul. I will NOT release anything until I know it will perform as intended and as well if not better than what is already out there. That is the reason I have chosen Magpul's mags over any other polymer mag out there. Yes, I do plan to do this project for GI mags as well, but only after finishing the PMag version first. But again, your focus is on dedicated lowers while mine is not.

Kudos for taking the time to make a quality product.  Pistol calibers use non-standard parts.  A lower is not that big of a financial leap when just a magwell adapter costs $130+.  I agree that having standard mags is a great idea, I just would rather have a complete magazine instead of a DIY kit that uses half of a product.

I also own an Olympic 9mm upper (in addition to the Colt style 9mm upper) and they give you options for Sten Mag adapters or their factory mags (which are expensive, but work in standard magwells without an adapter) which was the best of both worlds when Sten mags were cheap and plentiful (now Tapco offers MPA mags that can work with the Sten mag adapter).  The advantage to that design is the ejector is built into the upper.


Sorry to be a buzzkill as I applaud the ingenuity and love seeing new AR products.  This one just isn't for me.

So what you are saying is that you would prefer multiple dedicated lowers, or magwell adapters, or for a major manufacturer to sell a low volume, niche product for a price comparable to mass produced or surplus.  In this instance, you are right - the OP's idea is not what you want.  However, while you are waiting for what you DO want to occur, some of us will be more than happy to compromise a bit to be able to shoot our somewhat more obscure calibers in a more reliable fashion.

Then you have the power to purchase whatever suits your needs and I am again glad to see that there are innovators making new products for the AR.  My reasoning for not purchasing something is just that - mine.

Not a buzzkill at all. Criticism, whether positive or negative, is good. It let's me know what people are thinking and looking for out there. As you stated and R2point0 restated, this just isn't for you, but I do appreciate that you took the time to post your thoughts and I hope that you respect what I have replied with. I also love seeing the ingenuity that some people are showing with new AR products and without this thread or the copy thread in the Magazine section, I may not have thought of some of things that have been mentioned that I have added to the list of "to-dos" with this project. I for one never had any interest in the 7.62x25 round, so I would have never thought to come up with a version that will work with that round without this thread.


I am trying to give something constructive as to my viewpoint of the 9mm platforms that I own.  This product would need to be a complete magazine for me to want it and it would need to be at a pricepoint below $35 complete as that is what Metalforms run.  I am not trying to make anyone butthurt, but hopefully offer insight to help your product become more successful.  I am glad that someone is taking the time and energy to create something that will make the platform better and taking the time to do it right and get feedback (both positive and negative).

You guys have a long-ass tree going!

I just want to add that experience with 9mm ARs and mags don't have much bearing on this project.  There are a lot of options when it comes to using standard AR lowers with 9mm uppers just because the mags, by the nature of the smaller 9mm round, fit in the standard AR mag well.  The options for .45 mags that will do that are much more limited because the .45 is so much larger.  Basically there are three: The new OLY mags which are around $50, modified UZI magazines that run in the hundreds of dollars and have a very small capacity, and modified Grease Gun mags which are also expensive and require a mag block - none of which fit in standard AR mag pouches.  That's it.  The absolute beauty of the kits being discussed here is that they will allow the use of common inexpensive magazines (without permanent modification), standard lowers, and common AR mag pouches.  This is a very worthwhile idea what with the fact that .45 DI uppers are on deck.  Frankly, and come to think of it, I'm surprised the DI upper builders aren't in here offering more support as this would expand their market substantially IMHO.

One of the things on my to-do list that I haven't mentioned yet is to contact MagPul about what it would take to get mag bodies from them. I have been throwing around the idea of seeing if they would make a different insert for the Gen 2 (MOE now) mags like they did for the S&W M&P15 mags and have a custom logo to go along with the kits. I could also do a couple other things to make the magazine setup fixed and add that as another option out there. There is a list of things I haven't mentioned in this thread nor the other that I plan to see about doing.



The main reason I have focused on making this thread flow more towards it only being a kit is because I haven't done any communicating with MagPul about the project and seeing about what I stated in the comment just about this one. I wanted to get the project finished and have actual parts out there that work before going to them with the idea of getting mag bodies. I did plan on a few other things but I won't put them out there for now.



And I do appreciate that, I really do. When I was still working at the molding place I recently left, I chatted with my boss about the project and what the costs would be for each part in this project (body filler, follower, and floor plate keeper) and he estimated that the parts should cost about $5-15 total depending on the material used and any coloring added. I lost my contact information for a custom spring manufacturer that I spoke with when I was drawing up a custom spring to get a quote on samples and estimates on full production runs, so I can't say what the number was on that. I originally juggles the idea of just getting a stock of grease gun magazine springs and using them for the project, but the price on them that I've seen are $15 a piece and that makes the price of the entire project go up too much. That's why I looked into getting a custom spring done in hopes to bring that cost down. So the price should definitely be below $35, as this is something for me to get rich on, but something to, as you stated, make the platform better.

You're a good man and I wish you success - otherwise I wouldn't have posted as my intent was to help you get a more marketable version of your idea!  I hope the Magpul branded body sourcing works out as that would be ideal.  

I actually do hope you get rich off of this and continue to innovate new products for our hobby!  

At your price point, hopefully this will be the industry push needed to make the pistol calibers more accessible and affordable up front.  As AR45fan stated, this is a very big innovation for the .45 market over the 9mm market...   Perhaps I will have to look into some .45 uppers once this comes to fruition.

Spitballing here, but another idea may be to make a lower starter package with a buffer spacer and a few of your mags so you are selling everything needed to get the lower ready.

I meant to type isn't, but I guess when correcting some misspelling I either deleted it or didn't catch it on the get rich part. This project isn't something for me to get rich off of. It would be nice though to make a decent profit off of the project at least to make up for time and energy put into it.

Speaking of 9mm and .45, I know that capacity for the 9mm should be the same as .223 since there is very little size difference diameter wise vs the difference the .45 has.

I may have to look into something like that. I know it would help eliminate some threads on this forum from new enthusiasts on the platform.

I think this is a great project but a road I have traveled. If he gets this going i will be very happy to be one of his first customers

I never did reply to your post AR45fan, sorry about that. But you do have excellent points and said it better than I could have. There was a post from SpecOps on the first page of this thread talking about Ron's travels with a project like this and gave me some insight on things to watch out for.

Ron, I will be happy to have you as a customer if/when this gets going. I had part of the follower drawn up the other night with minor details being left, but for whatever reason SolidWorks decided it would be a good idea to freeze and crash. Due to that, I lost the part as I still haven't set up autosave on SolidWorks, which never needed to as this is the first time this has happened. It shouldn't take all that long to draw it back up though, but haven't worked on it this week.

am new to the site but your project prompted me to join. I am very interested in your PMAG project as I am wanting to build an AR in 10mm. Would you be offering mags in this caliber, if so when might you be offering them and how many rounds do you think the 30 rnd mags will hold? I think this product is sorely needed as there are many of us that don't want a dedicated pistol cal AR and I personally am not crazy about the length of GG mags.

Thanks for your first post being here. 10mm isn't necessarily one of the calibers I was including in the list, but 40 S&W was, so basically yes. Since I'm back home for the weekend visiting family, I grabbed a handful of 10mm from my father's stash and popped some into stock mag. I got to 20 before I couldn't stand to push any harder, but that is due to the follower and the angle on the top. Without my computer and the program I use, I can only guess that the capacity for 40S&W/10mm will be 23-28 rounds.

As far as when will all of this become available, that I truly can't answer at this time. My new job has been working me to death with all the extra hours I've been getting compared to my last job, plus it's full production full-time so I'm not getting the small bits of free time to sit down and work on this like at my last job. That's the main reason I haven't made all that much progress in the last month and a half.

I will say this though. When one piece of this project gets released, it will all get released. That means that kits for 9mm, 40S&W/10mm, 45ACP/460Rowland, and hopefully 7.62x25mm (Will be picking some up next weekend and can start looking more into what's needed for it) will be released. I discarded some earlier drawings of mine that had to do with the 30rd mag and on one of them was a major number I needed to finish the body filler, so that's on hold until I am able to get that number measured again.

Bump

You must have my computer bugged or something. I was going to bump this today saying the followers are finished and all I need to do is get some printed to check my design.

Wanted to add on the original post. The followers are finished being drawn up, I just have to get them printed now. I also need to change some small things on the other parts still and get new ones printed. The spring is done just looking for a good company to do that now.

Does anyone happen to have access to or know someone with access to an optical comparator? I need a radius measured on a piece of cut aluminum. I was stupid and didn't write the number down when I got the right radius cut.

So..... Kickstarter is gay. I emailed them asking about a particular wording in one of their policies saying no firearms or firearms accessories and noted the project linked on page 2 which is the Micro dot cover. And well apparently I can't put my project up there because from the time that was put on there and me emailing them, the policy was changed to omit firearm stuff. So that basically kicked me in the butt and threw out the idea of raising the funds to get this project into production.

So for now, back to the drawing board to figure out ways of getting these parts made without the cost being high. I can outsource the parts and get them 3d printed, but the body filler alone would cost $27 no matter the quantity. And that to me is unacceptable.

Check out Rockethub - plenty of firearms projects there.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Took a quick look last night just before my phone died. I've heard of that place before but not sure where. May have been here. Either way I'll read up on their guidelines and all. I do like that they're teamed up with A&E.

Thanks for the info.

I have used eMachineShop with good results, but not sure if you can import your design - might have to rebuild it in their software, which has given me some challenges at times.

The nice thing about eMS is that you can play around with options for your project and it will give you immediate quotes on cost for total order and per item.  If you can share some pictures, I might be willing to play angel investor

There's an ongoing thread in here about 80% receivers through them.  I happen to be the OP and maintainer.

Rockethub 80% Lower Receiver Projects

Nice.. That's a lot of projects people are doing.

eMachineShop was what got me into machining . I've spent hours on top of hours in that program drawing stuff up, just to get an estimate of what it would cost to be made. I hated the way it was setup at first, but after I got into the machining program, drawing stuff up was a piece of cake. I've been meaning to post some CAD pictures of the followers, but my software key is at home and I won't be back up until next weekend. (Yeah, I know, how could I forget the one thing that is most used on my laptop at home 150 miles away?) But I did it.

I'm going to get some quotes on stuff before I decide to talk to people about funding this project as I've had some private interest show up. The biggest thing right now is finding the most economical way to mass produce the pieces. I'm almost positive the pieces will work like a charm when assembled, but as stated earlier, I don't have a pistol cal upper. They're on my 'to get' list, but tools for work have been coming first in a big way (almost $2k in less than 3 months).

One of the issues I've see with trying to get a  really short cartridge to feed from a standard ar15 magazine was that I always ran out of feed lips to soon. I could build (primitive compared to what you have done here) ramps on the front of the mag and filler in the mag body to allow for the shorter oal but once the rounds left the support of the feed lips they would pop up way before the chamber and jam. I think you would open this up to a bunch more rounds if you could some how extend the feed lip length by building it in to your design. In some cases having only another 1/8 to 1/4 inch of feed lip I believe would have helped.  


Great work b.t.w. If you do a funding project on a site like rockethub I'm in.

Any progress also pm'd you.

Negative progress on the floor plate retainer piece the other night. Was converting the file to send off for 3D printing and the file didn't save right and lost the drawing. But it's not a complete loss since I have the internal profile of the magazine still saved, so will just have to work from there. I though I had replied back to you but will check and see what happened there.

Other than that, no real progress since getting the followers figured out and haven't worked on it much as I'm still debating on spring dimensions and styling. After that I can completely finish up on the floor piece and the bottom of the followers. Oh and get a real idea of round capacities for each mag and each caliber. Two other major projects of mine have gotten put on a tight hold, in different terms, they're in a coma right now until the doctors can figure out what to do to help the patient. Can't tell any details about either of those but there is one other person on this forum that knows about them other than myself.

On a different note, the job is going pretty good. I've been getting ten hours of overtime each week and the past two weekends have worked on Saturday. Was told I'm getting a raise, just have to wait until my evaluation is completely finished between the boss and the owner to get it. The boss said it will most likely be $1.50 and in another 90 days we would talk again and it may go up another $3.50, but he was kind of vague on the whole next 90 days thing as we were discussing a few things and the owner called about a new customer coming to see the shop and that threw the evaluation off course and we never finished talking.

Sorry to hear about the the failed save.. but congrats on the raise wish mine were that good.

Yeah when my boss told me that it was all I could do to keep from smiling. I went to a friend's wedding over the weekend and found out him and another friend of mine that's working at the same place are only making $16.40 from starting at $14.00 two years ago and in three months I started higher than them and am now making more than them as of tomorrow. It was announced Monday during our safety meeting that that's when the raised go in effect.

BTW, will get a reply sent to you shortly on the other.

I can see the value in this particularly for someone with a lower registered as an SBR.  If you've spent the money, and more importantly time, to go through the process of filing your paperwork on a standard lower, it would be much easier to be able to use pistol-caliber uppers with the standard magwell rather than having to use magwell blocks (which really limits you to 9mm only) or, worse, go through the paperwork process again for a dedicated lower just to shoot a shorty AR in a pistol caliber.  

I've got a pistol lower with a  7" Oly .45acp upper on.  I've got two of the Oly polymer magazines.  They're supposed to be 18-rounders, but those last two or three rounds are a cocksucker to get in.  The mags are also really large.  Maybe I missed it, but what capacity for .45 do you think you can get to fit in a standard Magpul magazine?

Would love to be able to use the pile of GI mags I have with my DI45 upper

As would I, and that's how I voted in the poll.  But the OP is doing the work so he gets to use whatever base he thinks best.  It will still benefit uss, because the techniques and lessons learned can be readily applied to any other mag.

Bump for encouragement.

Sorry for the long delay on the reply. Without having a complete kits put together, I can only guess. But with a standard mag setup I can easily get at least 16 rounds in the mag. One thing about a different follower is the way the pressure is distributed.





The GI mags are on the list to do. The hard part is going to be figuring out how to get something together to make the profile work right with it going from a straight wall to a curved wall. The second thing will be figuring out how to keep it from flexing open like it does with a standard follower where it will only hold up to 10 rounds before shooting out.





Thanks, right now it's needed. I have a few people want to fund me on the project, but after talking a little while, they just wanted to take the idea and run with it their selves and leave me with nothing basically.




Also, for now this is on hold. Been moving again and also having problems with my computer.

Bump for progress report and to prevent archiving.

How have I missed this?

Thanks. Still on hold for now. I've been trying to get the new place set up. Got my furniture delivered today FINALLY.
Will be setting the second bedroom up as a work room. Hopefully, I can get something designed to where I can do basic gunsmithing, reloading, and a little kydexsmithing (<- lol I think I made a new word).
I will also see about adding a spot to where I can draw stuff out instead of relying on my computer to do all the work. I have so many files that are mixed up I don't know what's what anymore, and that's not just talking about this project.



Well before AR45fan's post, it had been a month since my last post on this thread. That's probably about 8 pages back on the thread list, if I had to guess.
It's been slow on posts from me because I haven't had this on the priority list to work on and therefore I haven't posted on it.


About the only progress I've made is getting a few more mags to tinker with.
I have been looking for some AR15 blueprints, similar to what would be in the tech data packs, but haven't really had any luck.
I know in that pack is a few blueprints for the GI mags. There are a few things I would like to know before I even start on working with a GI version of this project.


I'll make a deal with everyone. If I can get a copy of those prints and I get this project going, I'll let you test some mags out and even get to keep a couple for free. The prints must be good quality and not all pixelated if in digital form. If in hard copy form, they need to be big enough that I can read every detail on them.

Just bumpin'.

Bubba, you need to make a road trip and come see me in Macon....my situation has changed from when we first talked, I now have a nice new shop, stocked with a Haas CNC Lathe and Mill and a Mitutoyo optical comparator with DRO not to mention a compliment of manual machines.....and a programmer that is wicked good.... We are making AR45 uppers fast enough that I am starting to build stock and have them ready for shipment, and a few other surprises.....let me know what drawings you need I have most and they are not net downloads with suspect dimensions. send me an email to [email protected] and I'll send you what I have print wise on the mags.....in PDF format......and you can zoom hell out of them...they are all originals.