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 vugger
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Joined: Mar 2003  IN, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2012 8:36:34 AM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Would it be better to buy one of the dedicated barrels from Spikes and build a good quality .22LR upper? Or should I just buy a CMMG and call it a day? I have not read about CMMG owners being unhappy with their uppers, but I am usually not a big CMMG fan. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 10:04:39 AM
I think its silly to be a "fan" or not a "fan" of a company generally.
Everyone has strengths, weaknesses, areas for improvement. In my view, CMMG's machine work is strong, their 22LR units work well. I build a dedicated 22LR upper with one of their barrels and an older (well broken in) Ciener kit. The darned thing shoots quarter sized groups at 50 yards as long as I do my part. Very good barrels. And I hear their stainless conversion bolts, etc., groups are fantastic. |
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vugger
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Joined: Mar 2003 IN, USA
Posts: 1193 Feedback: 100% (112) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/16/2012 10:50:36 AM
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
I think its silly to be a "fan" or not a "fan" of a company generally. Everyone has strengths, weaknesses, areas for improvement. In my view, CMMG's machine work is strong, their 22LR units work well. I build a dedicated 22LR upper with one of their barrels and an older (well broken in) Ciener kit. The darned thing shoots quarter sized groups at 50 yards as long as I do my part. Very good barrels. And I hear their stainless conversion bolts, etc., groups are fantastic. Manufacturers are not the same - especially when it comes to the firearms industry. Some manufacture/build quality products and some do not. I think suggesting otherwise is silly. If CMMG makes a solid .22 upper, then I will certainly take a look, but I will do it with caution. I would like to hear more about the stainless conversion. Can you buy a dedicated upper with all of the stainless parts? |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 12:22:00 PM
Originally Posted By vugger:
It appears that CMMG is about all that is left for .22LR dedicated uppers?? Is that correct? A couple of years ago, it seemed like everyone was putting out a .22 upper, now Tactical Solutions and CMMG are about all I can find that is out there. Any others? Would it be better to buy one of the dedicated barrels from Spikes and build a good quality .22LR upper? Or should I just buy a CMMG and call it a day? I have not read about CMMG owners being unhappy with their uppers, but I am usually not a big CMMG fan. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! I'd buy a CMMG and call it a day, I have 1, 2 of my buddies both have 1 each... all runs flawless !!! Tactical Solutions are great too but for more $. Forget about Spikes !! I have 2 complete uppers for over a year ... never have 1 fun day at the range with them!! Garbage! The worst thing is I paid more for them than a CMMG. |
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vugger
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Joined: Mar 2003 IN, USA
Posts: 1194 Feedback: 100% (112) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/16/2012 12:45:52 PM
Originally Posted By lmssts:
Originally Posted By vugger:
It appears that CMMG is about all that is left for .22LR dedicated uppers?? Is that correct? A couple of years ago, it seemed like everyone was putting out a .22 upper, now Tactical Solutions and CMMG are about all I can find that is out there. Any others? Would it be better to buy one of the dedicated barrels from Spikes and build a good quality .22LR upper? Or should I just buy a CMMG and call it a day? I have not read about CMMG owners being unhappy with their uppers, but I am usually not a big CMMG fan. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! I'd buy a CMMG and call it a day, I have 1, 2 of my buddies both have 1 each... all runs flawless !!! Tactical Solutions are great too but for more $. Forget about Spikes !! I have 2 complete uppers for over a year ... never have 1 fun day at the range with them!! Garbage! The worst thing is I paid more for them than a CMMG. This is excellent information! I had heard spikes had some issues, but I didn't realize they were that tempermental. Is there anyone that can elaborate on the differences why the CMMG is so much more reliable? Also, can you get the complete CMMG upper with the upgraded stainless bolt group? |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 1:24:57 PM
Originally Posted By vugger:
Originally Posted By lmssts:
Originally Posted By vugger:
It appears that CMMG is about all that is left for .22LR dedicated uppers?? Is that correct? A couple of years ago, it seemed like everyone was putting out a .22 upper, now Tactical Solutions and CMMG are about all I can find that is out there. Any others? Would it be better to buy one of the dedicated barrels from Spikes and build a good quality .22LR upper? Or should I just buy a CMMG and call it a day? I have not read about CMMG owners being unhappy with their uppers, but I am usually not a big CMMG fan. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! I'd buy a CMMG and call it a day, I have 1, 2 of my buddies both have 1 each... all runs flawless !!! Tactical Solutions are great too but for more $. Forget about Spikes !! I have 2 complete uppers for over a year ... never have 1 fun day at the range with them!! Garbage! The worst thing is I paid more for them than a CMMG. This is excellent information! I had heard spikes had some issues, but I didn't realize they were that tempermental. Is there anyone that can elaborate on the differences why the CMMG is so much more reliable? Also, can you get the complete CMMG upper with the upgraded stainless bolt group? I have a CMMG; haven't had it out much yet but I would recommend it. .22's are a finicky thing, it seems in any platform it's easy to make a dud––just look at the pistol market. I have a CMMG complete upper with the stainless bolt group. It is a dedicated upper, not an AR barrel with adapter bolt. |
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shadowcop
Independent Field Tester /R & D
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Joined: Jan 2006 IN, USA
Posts: 13812 Feedback: 100% (49) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/16/2012 1:25:38 PM
Contact me. I've done feild testing with the CMMG Evolution for over 2 years now.
Reliable system with options not available any where else. So far as differences, it's in the tolerances, specs, and machining. I can use the same stainless CMMG bcg in 5.5" - 20" without any changes. My original M4 LE has over 20K on it now with a hand full of FTE's. Dave N |
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NorthPolar
Doctor Whooves
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Joined: May 2009 AK, USA
Posts: 2967 Feedback: 100% (32) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/16/2012 2:57:31 PM
You really can't go wrong with either the tacsol or cmmg kits. Get the stainless upgrade though.
My tacsol is 500ish rounds in and perfect so far. |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:16:27 PM
Originally Posted By vugger:
Originally Posted By lmssts:
Originally Posted By vugger:
It appears that CMMG is about all that is left for .22LR dedicated uppers?? Is that correct? A couple of years ago, it seemed like everyone was putting out a .22 upper, now Tactical Solutions and CMMG are about all I can find that is out there. Any others? Would it be better to buy one of the dedicated barrels from Spikes and build a good quality .22LR upper? Or should I just buy a CMMG and call it a day? I have not read about CMMG owners being unhappy with their uppers, but I am usually not a big CMMG fan. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! I'd buy a CMMG and call it a day, I have 1, 2 of my buddies both have 1 each... all runs flawless !!! Tactical Solutions are great too but for more $. Forget about Spikes !! I have 2 complete uppers for over a year ... never have 1 fun day at the range with them!! Garbage! The worst thing is I paid more for them than a CMMG. This is excellent information! I had heard spikes had some issues, but I didn't realize they were that tempermental. Is there anyone that can elaborate on the differences why the CMMG is so much more reliable? Also, can you get the complete CMMG upper with the upgraded stainless bolt group? “I didn't realize they were that temperamental” I read and watch some you-tube video. Some got it to work “Is there anyone that can elaborate on the differences why the CMMG is so much more reliable?” They both looks identical and use the same mags. I suspect the firing pin, firing pin spring and angle of the slot on the barrel (don’t know what it’s called) or “tolerances” as noted by Shadowcop. Anyway, last week, I got bored with my CMMG and took out the CMMG bolt/rail and mated with the Spike collar and tried it on the Spike upper. It worked for single shot but won’t fully cycle. I have to use my finger as a forward assist to nudge the bolt forward ~1/8” and make it fire. “Can you get the complete CMMG upper with the upgraded stainless bolt group?” One of the friends just brought a M4LE .22 Caliber AR-15 upper from HamLund_Tactical and it came with stainless bolt group/rail and a black collar. |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:19:05 PM
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
You really can't go wrong with either the tacsol or cmmg kits. Get the stainless upgrade though. My tacsol is 500ish rounds in and perfect so far. I concur. |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:23:22 PM
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
Contact me. I've done feild testing with the CMMG Evolution for over 2 years now. Reliable system with options not available any where else. So far as differences, it's in the tolerances, specs, and machining. I can use the same stainless CMMG bcg in 5.5" - 20" without any changes. My original M4 LE has over 20K on it now with a hand full of FTE's.Dave N I believe It. |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:27:04 PM
Heard good things about compass lake also
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:34:22 PM
Originally Posted By vugger:
It appears that CMMG is about all that is left for .22LR dedicated uppers?? Is that correct? A couple of years ago, it seemed like everyone was putting out a .22 upper, now Tactical Solutions and CMMG are about all I can find that is out there. Any others? Would it be better to buy one of the dedicated barrels from Spikes and build a good quality .22LR upper? Or should I just buy a CMMG and call it a day? I have not read about CMMG owners being unhappy with their uppers, but I am usually not a big CMMG fan. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! I just got a dedicated CMMG upper with the stainless bolt. You can pay more for a TacSol upper, I have seen them around. For me the CMMG is perfect, as part of the reson I am shooting 22LR is the $$ savings. So to me the CMMG upper fits that "sweet spot" of proven reliability but still a bargain at $370. |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 7:09:48 PM
For Christmas I gave myself a CLE dedicated .22 service rifle upper with a Douglas s/s barrel. I sent them the upper receiver and my M-261 conversion bolt. When they test fired it, my bolt would not work reliably and they couldn't fix it. They sold me one of their bolts for $50. Couple of weeks ago, I took it to an Appleseed shoot and fired 1/4 inch group at 25 yards from prone unsupported. I couldn't be happier. Frank and Theresa White are stand up people and great to do business with.
Marty |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 8:08:32 PM
Although not much talked about in this forum, after alot of research and lurking in several forums, I chose the NC22 from Nordic Components. I couldn't be happier with my decision! So far, over 1000 rounds with a dozen different types of .22LR ammo and not one hiccup. It shoots dime sized groups at 50 yards all day long from a front rest only (sand bag) and will easily hold a quarter sized group offhand (I shoot alot). Nordic makes the uppers for JP Rifles and for DPMS as well. Their customer service is excellent in my opinion and the quality and engineering is outstanding.
My reason for the choice is the engineering. Their dedicated upper is based on the time proven Ruger 10/22 design. I encourage you to shop around and read all the information available before making your choice. I have spoken to them regarding being a site sponsor as well. I believe their product is superior to those which base the action on the Ceiner design. Although well reviewed here, those kits can be finicky (that's a scientific term) and MAY require some polishing and fitting to be completely reliable. There are many posts here to support this statement. Bottom line, do your homework, it will pay off. |
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Posted: 4/17/2012 9:39:19 PM
There are really only 3 things that could be improved on with the Ciener Setup. Atleast that was my findings, when I developed a 22LR upper a few years back.
1) Bolt Weight....the bolt is really just a litte too light and friction, spring weight can (key word: can) be finicky. At the time, I believed this was a huge factor, I've been re-thinking that lately. Lube is your friend on the Ceiner, don;t worry about it being SS or not.....a good lube is key. There is a company called Rydol that makes a great light grease that works great on the rails. Another thing you can use any oil that lubricates at a "molecular" level...FP10 comes to mind and its good stuff...lasts long past the time you don't see it on the rail. 2) Firing Pin.....Too heavy of a return spring and the blade is too wide. Also, the design on the firing pin lends itself to breaking too easy and the back end sticks out too far leading to some horrific out of battery detenations and doubling. If your firing pin doesn't make a least a .010" dent in your shell.....it is not to the SAAMI spec. It may still work, but it is not to the spec. 3) Extractor......I used to belive the design was actually flawed. It really isn't. It is actually just a little sloppy in it's position, in other words, due to the position of the extractor....some work great, pull an unfired round out of the chamber, ejection is a steady stream of brass. Others, you can't manually eject around and ejection is eratic, the spent rounds come out almost in a fan pattern. That being said....it appears that with this type of design....CMMG has seemed to come very close to making their set up work pretty darn good.....I'm sure that they have problem child of course (every manufacturer does....it's the frequency that can get ya). I am sure that you'll hear of a company coming out with another one of these types of uppers in the near future that will address all of the short comings and have a pretty reliable upper. 
Tim |
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Posted: 4/17/2012 10:17:46 PM
I had technical issues with my CMMG pre-evolution conversion bolt. CMMG tech support went out of their way to help me. In fact, for a small fee, they allowed me to exchange my bolt for an updated "Evolution" bolt - even though I didn't purchase the original bolt from them! I can't praise them highly enough. I think CMMG is the way to go for either a conversion bolt or upper.
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Posted: 4/17/2012 10:44:39 PM
I tried Spikes first and wasn't happy although I love the rest of their stuff. My CMMG dedicated upper on a Spikes lower is the funnest rifle I own. CMMG is the way to go without a doubt.
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Posted: 4/18/2012 1:34:21 PM
I have one experience with CMMG middy complete rifle 22lr and my son and I shoot the heck out of it. Bought a 50 rd black dog drum tested with CMMG two mag dumps with federal bulk no failures. I have been very impressed with the CMMG 22lr approx 1500rds to date and maybe less than 5 failures and that's just a guess don't have any reason to keep track if that makes sense? I also have a Spikes didicated upper with the lother walther barrel approx. 4000rds to date and same kind of reliability out of it. Just need to get a match grade or some sortive better trigger to ring out best possible accuracy.
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Posted: 4/18/2012 2:26:21 PM
I got a cheap Chiappa upper. The magazine that came with it always gives me problems, but a blackdog 50 round drum runs like a top using CCI AR or mini mags. Also the piney mountain tracers seem to work perfect. I like them better than fireworks.
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Posted: 4/18/2012 4:22:52 PM
I'd have to agree with those on here who say that not all manufactures are the same. I also agree with those who have positive responses to Tac Sol. A little more money, yes. But better to buy once and cry once.
I drive by their offices on my daily commute. Good folks, every one of them from the times I have been inside the door. |
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Posted: 4/18/2012 10:06:22 PM
Originally Posted By JD_BP_Flyer:
Although not much talked about in this forum, after alot of research and lurking in several forums, I chose the NC22 from Nordic Components. I couldn't be happier with my decision! So far, over 1000 rounds with a dozen different types of .22LR ammo and not one hiccup. It shoots dime sized groups at 50 yards all day long from a front rest only (sand bag) and will easily hold a quarter sized group offhand (I shoot alot). Nordic makes the uppers for JP Rifles and for DPMS as well. Their customer service is excellent in my opinion and the quality and engineering is outstanding. My reason for the choice is the engineering. Their dedicated upper is based on the time proven Ruger 10/22 design. I encourage you to shop around and read all the information available before making your choice. I have spoken to them regarding being a site sponsor as well. I believe their product is superior to those which base the action on the Ceiner design. Although well reviewed here, those kits can be finicky (that's a scientific term) and MAY require some polishing and fitting to be completely reliable. There are many posts here to support this statement. Bottom line, do your homework, it will pay off. ^^ I just finished a dedicated NC22 build, put 1K through it the first outing, not a single glitch, no cleaning. All federal bulk. 3 shot groups (rest) when I'm doing my part can clover at 50yrds. The design and quality of this thing really is worth every penny. There is a group buy going on right now on another site (google it) |
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Posted: 4/18/2012 10:53:07 PM
Unsure about the rest, but I'm extremely happy with my Spikes .22 upper... being I've never had such an accurate .22 (upgraded to the Lothar Walther barrel).
It functioned 100%, but I wanted the Evolution features. Swapped the bolt assembly for the Echo kit, but didn't go with the BHOA (NJ has a 15 round magazine limit, which the newer BDMs do not allow the follower to fit). Took the CMMG adapter, put it on my Spikes assembly, test fired to make sure it worked, and sold it. It is very hard to screw up a .22 upper, but I do know that the bolt assemblies were where Spikes had issues with manufacturers. I would never sell mine, again, for the accuracy I've got out of it. |
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woodsman556
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2011 OH, USA
Posts: 164 Feedback: 100% (7) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:29:33 AM
Originally Posted By lmssts:
One of the friends just brought a M4LE .22 Caliber AR-15 upper from HamLund_Tactical and it came with stainless bolt group/rail and a black collar. I bought the same one from Hamlund and it just arrived today. Mine came with the stainless bolt too.
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Posted: 4/19/2012 8:18:55 PM
Nobody can deny that CMMG has come up with a great .22 platform. They are popular for a reason, they are the right price and they function very well. Being a owner of a CMMG dedicated .22 upper I am very happy with the uppers performance. Also their customer service is one of the best I've dealt with. The charging handle snapped into two pieces when charging and CMMG sent me a new one right away, the accuracy at first wasn't too great and after emailing them some pictures of the barrel crown which looked flawed they offered to re-machine a new target crown, they paid for all shipping and I received the upper back in 8 days. Now it shoots nickel size groups at 50 yards and I couldn't be more happy. CMMG is the way to go.
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oneshotkyle
Member
Team Member
Joined: Apr 2009 OR, USA
Posts: 326 Feedback: 100% (26) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/19/2012 9:36:45 PM
Originally Posted By woodsman556:
Originally Posted By lmssts:
One of the friends just brought a M4LE .22 Caliber AR-15 upper from HamLund_Tactical and it came with stainless bolt group/rail and a black collar. I bought the same one from Hamlund and it just arrived today. Mine came with the stainless bolt too.
i just bought the pencil barrel one from hamlund and it came with stainless bolt too. i was much more happy to find that when i opened the box |
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