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thewildman
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Posted: 7/10/2011 6:56:48 PM
i am wanting to know if anyone makes an upper that uses .357 mag that feeds from a modified Ar mag. or if anyone would be willing to make one?
from what i have been told the rimmed cartridge would be an issue, but that could be avoided by borrowing a few pieces from another .357 semi-auto design.

i am SPECIFICALLY wanting a .357mag, not an upper that shoots some similar rimless cartridge.







any advice would be greatly appreciated
HardShell
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:02:23 PM
IIRC, Kurt Wala built a handful of .357 and/or .44 Magnum (standard rimmed cartridges, can't remember if it was both or not) ARs that worked okay, after LOTS of tweaks.

Sadly, of course, the Maestro is no longer with us...


(Not to say nobody else can do, or even may already be doing, the same, of course, just that Kurt had a real knack for it. He worked on several of my rifles over the years and I was always thrilled withthe results.)
I am a CHRISTIAN, a CONSERVATIVE, and a REPUBLICAN... in exactly that order, and completely without apology.
Mad-Machinist
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:14:20 PM
I've been giving it some thought......and while probably doable the first requirement you'll have to ditch is a modified AR mag......I'd look to some of the existing semi auto .357 mags and a magwell adaptor..........first step is to make a barrel and test breech and see if the ammount of unsupported case can be minimized to prevent blowout.....probably have to turn down the bolt face and then extend the barrel breech into the barrel extension....or maybe design a whole new system.....
22LR
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:14:45 PM
start looking for AR smiths that do custom/special uppers.

im sure you will find someone willing to make and do the dev for you if you have the $$$.
thewildman
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:21:43 PM
Originally Posted By Mad-Machinist:
I've been giving it some thought......and while probably doable the first requirement you'll have to ditch is a modified AR mag......I'd look to some of the existing semi auto .357 mags and a magwell adaptor..........first step is to make a barrel and test breech and see if the ammount of unsupported case can be minimized to prevent blowout.....probably have to turn down the bolt face and then extend the barrel breech into the barrel extension....or maybe design a whole new system.....


i was thinking of borrowing some of the design from a desert eagle, and seeing if i could make it work.i was thinking a modified ar mag because i didn't want to mess with a mag block and i wanted higher capacities.
MaxTheRabbit
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:22:04 PM
[Last Edit: 7/10/2011 7:22:52 PM by MaxTheRabbit]
it seems a constant through the years that someone is always banging their head against the wall trying to feed rimmed cartridges in automatics

no matter what rimless or rebated rim cartridges come out it's never good enough :D

you could just buy a DEAGLE brand DEAGLE - that's kinda ar-esque

ETA arrrrg dude beat me to the deagle reference
thewildman
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:27:04 PM
Originally Posted By MaxTheRabbit:
it seems a constant through the years that someone is always banging their head against the wall trying to feed rimmed cartridges in automatics

no matter what rimless or rebated rim cartridges come out it's never good enough :D


it isn't that the rimless cartridges aren't good enough, it is the fact that i have access to quite A LOT of .357 mag, where as i don't have access to most of the comprable rimless cartridges.
GB243
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:05:33 PM
Ruger is producing a 77/357.

I may actually get one myself .

Who knows , if it stirs up enough business a 357 Deerfield may be next.
thewildman
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:17:20 PM
Originally Posted By GB243:
Ruger is producing a 77/357.

I may actually get one myself .

Who knows , if it stirs up enough business a 357 Deerfield may be next.


what is a .357 Deerfeild?
GB243
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:27:17 PM
Originally Posted By thewildman:
Originally Posted By GB243:
Ruger is producing a 77/357.

I may actually get one myself .

Who knows , if it stirs up enough business a 357 Deerfield may be next.


what is a .357 Deerfeild?


A .357 version of their .44 mag semiauto.

thewildman
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:39:08 PM
Originally Posted By GB243:
Originally Posted By thewildman:
Originally Posted By GB243:
Ruger is producing a 77/357.

I may actually get one myself .

Who knows , if it stirs up enough business a 357 Deerfield may be next.


what is a .357 Deerfeild?


A .357 version of their .44 mag semiauto.



ok. i still may have to get an AR smith to make a .357mag upper.
nhsport
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:46:45 PM
[Last Edit: 7/10/2011 8:48:15 PM by nhsport]
A 357 lever gun will get you sort of close to where you want to go.

Loading and reloading will be a good bit slower.

Check with the cowboy action shooters and you will likely find some loading techniques although they mostly only
reload shotguns on the clock

Watching some of these guys and gals shoot will show you some stuff that isn't a whole lot slower than semiauto.

The lever gun will run a wider variety of loads and still give you the benifits of the carbine barrel length.

As others have said , stuffing 357 loads into a semi type mag and getting that mag to fit in an AR is going to be a bunch of work.

Just how much 357 ammo are we talking about here ?
pavil58ar
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:51:43 PM
I'd like to hear of a 10mm AR chambering.

P.
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22LR
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:53:36 PM
Originally Posted By pavil58ar:
I'd like to hear of a 10mm AR chambering.

P.


already done.
thewildman
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:53:55 PM
Originally Posted By nhsport:
A 357 lever gun will get you sort of close to where you want to go.

Loading and reloading will be a good bit slower.

Check with the cowboy action shooters and you will likely find some loading techniques although they mostly only
reload shotguns on the clock

Watching some of these guys and gals shoot will show you some stuff that isn't a whole lot slower than semiauto.

The lever gun will run a wider variety of loads and still give you the benifits of the carbine barrel length.

As others have said , stuffing 357 loads into a semi type mag and getting that mag to fit in an AR is going to be a bunch of work.

Just how much 357 ammo are we talking about here ?


The lever gun only has 2 things in common with what i want to do, one is a 16 inch barrel and the other is a .357mag chamber.

and there is somewhere between 8000 and 12000 rounds dad says i can have as much as i want whenever i want it, for almost nothing.

MaxTheRabbit
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Posted: 7/10/2011 9:50:25 PM
[Last Edit: 7/10/2011 9:55:18 PM by MaxTheRabbit]
well if you really want to do it you could use a 7.62x39 bolt and a 9mm barrel

but you'd have to cut a new chamber, drill a gas port and attach a trunnion for the bolt to lock into

the real problem would be the mag
GB243
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Posted: 7/10/2011 9:56:11 PM
Originally Posted By MaxTheRabbit:
well if you really want to do it you could use a 7.62x39 bolt and a 9mm barrel

but you'd have to ream the chamber of course, drill a gas port and attach a trunnion for the bolt to lock into

the real problem would be the mag


Sounds like you're building an AK with that trunnion .

HardShell
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Posted: 7/10/2011 9:57:29 PM
[Last Edit: 7/10/2011 10:10:21 PM by HardShell]

Originally Posted By pavil58ar:
I'd like to hear of a 10mm AR chambering.

P.

Regularly produced/cataloged item... albeit OLY, but they seem to work.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=54&category_id=29&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37



I am a CHRISTIAN, a CONSERVATIVE, and a REPUBLICAN... in exactly that order, and completely without apology.
MaxTheRabbit
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Posted: 7/10/2011 9:59:48 PM
the 9mm case is actually fatter than the 357mag so chamber reaming is out, you'd have to cut a new one

also a "barrel extension" is a trunnion
GB243
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Posted: 7/10/2011 10:22:58 PM
Originally Posted By MaxTheRabbit:
the 9mm case is actually fatter than the 357mag so chamber reaming is out, you'd have to cut a new one

also a "barrel extension" is a trunnion


Just cut .75 " off the chamber area , but then you are still shoving a .357 down a .355 bore.



MaxTheRabbit
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Posted: 7/10/2011 10:29:19 PM
true, that and the amount of case that will likely end up unsupported makes for an unpleasant combination
Mad-Machinist
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Posted: 7/10/2011 11:44:40 PM
I have already done the drawings a while back.....problem is the AR headspaces on the case mouth in the case of a pistol caliber locked breech gas gun like the .45 or 10mm....the .357 as a rule headspaces on the cas rim.......necessitating either cutting the bolt off on the face to make the pocket shallower.....and requiring the manufacture of a new extractor......or making a custom bolt AND a custom extractor and a longer firing pin......all of these are doable but make this not a project for the faint of budget........if you just use an opened up bolt like on a Tok15 or .45 and headspacing on the case mouth then you run a substantial risk of the base of the cartridge blowing and doing nasty things to the gun and possibly your face and hands. While it can be done it would run well into the thousands to manufacture the one off parts and do the testing to make sure it is a safe and functional firearm.

As far as modding an AR mag.....I can't really imagine any mod of a mag designed for a bottleneck rimless cartridge to accept a rimmed straightwall case that is shorter......
thewildman
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Posted: 7/15/2011 1:19:24 AM
i talked to a guy who has done it and i know how to make it work if i can find someone with the tools, the know how, and the balls to take on this kind of project.
badguybuster
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Posted: 7/15/2011 7:22:11 AM
I'd be all over that if one was made
thewildman
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Posted: 7/15/2011 10:57:16 AM
Originally Posted By badguybuster:
I'd be all over that if one was made


i will let you know how it goes.
ronaldmwilliams
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Posted: 7/15/2011 2:12:19 PM
Lets get er done
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