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UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE
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Posted: 3/12/2010 9:47:25 PM
ive already figured out what i would have to do and what hardware i would need. but is it legal? would i have to register it as a pistol? the Sig 522 has a folding stock so why cant i? could i legally put a pistol grip on the quadrail if it were registered as a pistol?

thanks
SpecOps-13
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Posted: 3/12/2010 10:40:33 PM
You could put a folding stock on. I'm not totally sure of the legalities of doing that as you'd be cutting
the tube that originally holds the collapsible buttstock on. You definitely can't make it into a pistol
because as it leaves the factory it is a rifle forever. Putting a pistol grip on the quad rail of a pistol will get
you into a problem worse than a DUI. Beyond that, Good Luck.
Spec
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squirrelslayer1
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Posted: 3/12/2010 10:48:05 PM
nothing illegal at all. Just dont cut the barrel down and you are good to go.
UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE
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Posted: 3/13/2010 12:56:45 AM
so if i have a folding stock on my 15-22, i cant put a pistol grip on the front? how is it legal with a shotgun? having a folding stock with a pistol grip on the front?
echo_5
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Posted: 3/13/2010 5:54:03 AM

Originally Posted By UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE:
so if i have a folding stock on my 15-22, i cant put a pistol grip on the front? how is it legal with a shotgun? having a folding stock with a pistol grip on the front?


You CAN have a folding stock AND a foregrip. No problem. Perfectly legal. Slow down when you read.
My rights have been infringed upon because some fuckin urbanite elitists fear inanimate objects
-Throttle_monkey1
echo_5
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Posted: 3/13/2010 5:54:03 AM

Originally Posted By UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE:
so if i have a folding stock on my 15-22, i cant put a pistol grip on the front? how is it legal with a shotgun? having a folding stock with a pistol grip on the front?


You CAN have a folding stock AND a foregrip. No problem. Perfectly legal. Slow down when you read.
My rights have been infringed upon because some fuckin urbanite elitists fear inanimate objects
-Throttle_monkey1
SpecOps-13
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Posted: 3/13/2010 8:38:44 AM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2010 8:40:35 AM by SpecOps-13]
As long as you have any buttstock and it's 16" barrel length or more, you can have a pistol grip
on the forend. A pistol, meaning that there is no buttstock can not. A pistol can be made from a
virgin AR Receiver that has never been designated or built as a rifle.

Buttstock and less than 16" barrel = Short Barreled Rifle. Must be registered.

BATF states that a pistol with a fore end grip of any style = Any Other Weapon.
and musst be registered to be legal. They don't say 16" and under so I'm thinking
that it means a pistol of any length. I'm not even going to interpret their meaning
on that one. It would scary to try.

This is "My Understanding" of the laws.

Spec
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Chuck
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Posted: 3/13/2010 8:59:29 AM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2010 9:03:47 AM by Chuck]
Rifles with barrels less than 16" in length or with an overall length less than 26" are strictly regulated by federal law under the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Telescoping and folding stock rifles are measured for the 26 inch overall length with the stock in the fully extended position (not folded, not telescoped closed). Leave the barrel alone and you're good to go. Other than cobbling the 15-22 lower receiver.

I believe the lower receiver extension has an internal steel tube in it so you're in unexplored territory. I'd wait until one of the accessory makers, or S&W themselves develops a folding stock. Perhaps the M&P15-22 pistol due out in April is a good start. At least the lower receiver is already short.

You can not legally make a pistol out of a rifle, so forget that. You can, however, put a stock and 16" barrel on a pistol and be legal. And swap back and forth. Can't end up with a stock on a 7" barrel, but a stock-less 16" pistol is legal but hardly practical. Again, it has to be a pistol, not a "sawed off" rifle. The M&P 15-22 is only about 23" OAL if you cut the stock off at the end of the receiver and will not meet the 26" minimum OAL unless there's a stock on it, and you can't legally make a pistol out of it.

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ShermiesRule
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Posted: 3/13/2010 10:04:09 AM
Check with your state laws. Unlike Chuck in OH, Michigan's definition of OAL is determined in it's shortest configuration. Therefore folders and telescoping stocks must be closed before they measure.
Chuck
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Posted: 3/13/2010 12:00:00 PM
Excellent point.

–– Chuck
United States Offensive M4 Carbine Club.
UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE
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Posted: 3/13/2010 4:31:45 PM
Originally Posted By ShermiesRule:
Check with your state laws. Unlike Chuck in OH, Michigan's definition of OAL is determined in it's shortest configuration. Therefore folders and telescoping stocks must be closed before they measure.


Good point. I oviously would measure it before I did all this, but I don't have it. I'm still waiting to get it back from S&W for repairs. I just assumed it would be at least 26" folded. Well...you know what they say about assuming.
CaptBinkley
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Posted: 3/13/2010 10:15:22 PM
The shop I picked up my 15-22 from mentioned he heard a rumor that S&W may produce a folding stock soon. Personally, can't say I'm too interested in one.
JoshAston
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Posted: 3/14/2010 9:06:12 AM

Originally Posted By Chuck:
You can, however, put a stock and 16" barrel on a pistol and be legal. And swap back and forth.
–– Chuck
ATF has ruled that only applies to the T/C. So once you make a pistol into a rifle, if it's not a T/C, you can't swap back and forth.

I'm from Texas, what country are you from?
JoshAston
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Posted: 3/14/2010 9:07:29 AM

Originally Posted By UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE:
Originally Posted By ShermiesRule:
Check with your state laws. Unlike Chuck in OH, Michigan's definition of OAL is determined in it's shortest configuration. Therefore folders and telescoping stocks must be closed before they measure.


Good point. I oviously would measure it before I did all this, but I don't have it. I'm still waiting to get it back from S&W for repairs. I just assumed it would be at least 26" folded. Well...you know what they say about assuming.

What state are you in? Most states go with the federal requirement that the stock be fully extended for OAL. There are only a few that don't.
I'm from Texas, what country are you from?
UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE
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Posted: 3/14/2010 9:38:30 AM
I'm in michigan. And it has to be measued with the stock folded. I guess ill have to wait till I get it back and do some measurements.
Chuck
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Posted: 3/14/2010 1:44:27 PM
ATF has ruled that only applies to the T/C. So once you make a pistol into a rifle, if it's not a T/C, you can't swap back and forth.
Sure ya can. But even IF its not legal who's to know.

–– Chuck

United States Offensive M4 Carbine Club.
JoshAston
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Posted: 3/15/2010 9:22:02 AM

Originally Posted By Chuck:
ATF has ruled that only applies to the T/C. So once you make a pistol into a rifle, if it's not a T/C, you can't swap back and forth.
Sure ya can. But even IF its not legal who's to know.

–– Chuck


Obviously it's physically possible, I was talking about the legalities. And yes, it's highly unlikely you'll get caught unless you decide to tell everyone you're doing it.
I'm from Texas, what country are you from?
NY_Shooter
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Posted: 3/19/2010 5:27:45 AM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:

Originally Posted By Chuck:
You can, however, put a stock and 16" barrel on a pistol and be legal. And swap back and forth.
–– Chuck
ATF has ruled that only applies to the T/C. So once you make a pistol into a rifle, if it's not a T/C, you can't swap back and forth.



I've heard this too.

I don't understand how Mech-Tech is still in business then. They sell units to convert your Glock (and 1911's, I think) into a carbine, and I'm assuming most people don't plan on keeping their Glock as a carbine forever, but who knows.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
JoshAston
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Posted: 3/19/2010 8:21:11 AM

Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:

Originally Posted By Chuck:
You can, however, put a stock and 16" barrel on a pistol and be legal. And swap back and forth.
–– Chuck
ATF has ruled that only applies to the T/C. So once you make a pistol into a rifle, if it's not a T/C, you can't swap back and forth.



I've heard this too.

I don't understand how Mech-Tech is still in business then. They sell units to convert your Glock (and 1911's, I think) into a carbine, and I'm assuming most people don't plan on keeping their Glock as a carbine forever, but who knows.
ATF hasn't knocked on their door yet. I don't know if they'd have a shot at winning a court case either seeing as one of the main points in T/C's case was that their gun was obviously for sporting purposes only.

I'm from Texas, what country are you from?