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forever4
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Posted: 2/9/2010 9:08:08 AM
There was a lot of buzz about the new ATI AR-22 upper for a few days. I haven't seen much more since. Does anyone have one? Has anyone seen any deals on them yet? Just wondering how these were working out for folks. Also wondering if ATI would have enough to go around. If the supply is short the prices will stay high. If you think about it, you can shop and get a Sig 522 or a S&W .22 for a bit over $400 and that is a complete rifle. I am still surprised that a main stream US gun maker hasn't jumped into the .22 upper market. Maybe their legal advisers tell them to only sell complete firearms where they can put those bad triggers on them. But considering the prices you would think it would be a money maker for them to sell uppers at fair prices.

On the other hand, if you compare the build quality and materials in a Spikes or a Tac Sol upper they are much above what the .22 clone rifles are. I guess that is why they cost a bit more.
kevins_garage
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Posted: 2/9/2010 9:13:06 AM
I'm tossed up between:

1. hasn't had his morning coffee yet

or

2. hasn't taken his meds yet.

forever4
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Posted: 2/9/2010 11:38:11 AM
Huh?
forever4
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Posted: 2/9/2010 11:45:31 AM
Simple question: Have many members had any experience with the ATI .22 upper. I saw one or two people report back on them. There was some buzz about them several weeks back. Cope's Distributing had them listed on their site. Since then its been quiet about them. One member got one and did some mods to it but I don't recall hearing or seeing any range reports on them after the first reports.

Does no one have any more to report on the ATI? Most are very familiar now with the Spikes and the Tac Sol as they have been around and many people have written about them. Not so much on the ATI yet. So, its just a simple question. Not too confusing, and no, I don't do med's nor do I drink coffer. I do shoot a lot and have conversions and dedicated uppers. I have considered one of the ATI uppers for a extra lower I have but would like to know more about them

Gee.....I thought this is what a forum was for.......

ATI .22 upper
SpecOps-13
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Posted: 2/9/2010 12:12:47 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2010 12:13:40 PM by SpecOps-13]
I have my suspicions. I did a ARFCOM Search for ATI over the past 3 months. Relevant info, Not.

I had a vanishing thread and a locked thread, because I overstepped the line and they were interpreted as advertising.
Could that have happened here too?

I have no idea what the Coffee and Meds reply means either. Maybe kevins_garage knows more about this ATI
question than he's telling us. We may have missed something?


Spec
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forever4
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Posted: 2/9/2010 12:30:46 PM
Yea, strange response. We have the mid-west snow storm here today so I had a few minutes to catch up on things. I was wondering about this ATI think as there was buzz about it then it fell silent. Surely someone is buying them. ATI is a well knows company and a distributor. Several better known places, including sponsers here carry their products. AIM Surplus is one well known one. AIM had not listed these uppers yet which seems odd. They have the GSG-5's, the AK-22's and such from ATI as well as the DelTon complete rifles that ATI carries.

So, it the ATI .22 upper a flash? Did they run out of them? Or, is everyone sitting back and waiting to see how they do?
kevins_garage
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Posted: 2/9/2010 12:41:01 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2010 12:53:30 PM by kevins_garage]
Originally Posted By forever4:
Huh?

My coffe/meds comment was more a joke about the commentary on .22 uppers vs. rifles and mainstream US gun makers and the legal advise to put terrible triggers in them - yadda yadda.

As far as the ATI .22 upper though, my guess would be that it is simply the Chiappa upper as ATI is just an importer and they are the exclusive US distributor of the Chiappa .22 upper.

Perhaps I shouldn't say "guess" as that info and a link to ATI's site is right on the Chiappa site and has been there for a while. I'm not sure why ATI's site doesn't just say "Chiappa Firearms .22 upper" though instead, unless Chiappa is goign to brand/mark it ATI???
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/172
SpecOps-13
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Posted: 2/9/2010 1:30:40 PM
[Last Edit: 2/9/2010 1:35:41 PM by SpecOps-13]
Duh on my part. I didn't pay attention as well as I shoulda. I remember the ATI, Chiappa
connection. I even made posts on that thread. Man, It took a lot of cups of Coffee.

So far, I'm the last poster on the thread. It's currently 8 pages in on the index.

Spec

Chiappa Distributed by ATI: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=472264&page=1
You've already missed what just happened, Forever......
The Green has become Red, is running down your into your eyes
and the Green Laser's now shining out the back of your head.....
Ooooops.
kevins_garage
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Posted: 2/9/2010 3:22:01 PM
Originally Posted By forever4:
Maybe their legal advisers tell them to only sell complete firearms where they can put those bad triggers on them.

I still liked this the best.

Maybe we need to start a national "take a legal adviser to the shooting range" day...
forever4
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Posted: 2/9/2010 3:41:35 PM
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Originally Posted By forever4:
Maybe their legal advisers tell them to only sell complete firearms where they can put those bad triggers on them.

I still liked this the best.

Maybe we need to start a national "take a legal adviser to the shooting range" day...


Over on Rim Fire Central some lawyer asked why people called them "lawyer triggers". He felt that was wrong to do that lawyers never caused any of this stuff. Well, did that board ever light up over that. Seems not many people had much love for lawyers and the changes they have caused gun makers to do. People in the industry will tell you how much trouble they have had and now many changes they have had to make due to the mountain of product liability law suits. Of course the lawyers swear they are just protecting us...not that they are getting rich doing it or anything.

But, Lawyer Triggers are the norm now. Smith and Wesson was one of the first to increase the pull on their triggers to settle a claim or avoid a suit. The reasoning was that a heavy trigger would make it unlikely that a child would accidentally set the gun off. Children shouldn't be playing with loaded weapons. Making triggers harder to pull isn't going to stop idiots from doing many stupid things.

Anyway, ATI is selling that upper and on their website they call it a : ATI conversion upper. They use their name on it there. Others realize that it is made by someone else, just like ATI doesn't make the GSG-5.
PCFlorida
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Posted: 2/9/2010 9:21:17 PM
So I've got one of the ATI / Chiappia uppers. When I first put it on a lower it was quite disappointed. Even with CCI plated ammo it jammed every 4 or 5 rounds. Then I put it on another lower and it has been flawless. Now I only have about 500 rounds through it so far but its been great.

I know, lousy review, but it's my birthday and it was a long day at work.
forever4
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Posted: 2/9/2010 10:53:04 PM
Originally Posted By PCFlorida:
So I've got one of the ATI / Chiappia uppers. When I first put it on a lower it was quite disappointed. Even with CCI plated ammo it jammed every 4 or 5 rounds. Then I put it on another lower and it has been flawless. Now I only have about 500 rounds through it so far but its been great.

I know, lousy review, but it's my birthday and it was a long day at work.


Its a start, now the big question:

Which lower did it not work well. Which lower did it function well on? What hammers where in these lowers?

Want to know all we can learn about these and share this with others.

kevins_garage
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Posted: 2/9/2010 11:10:46 PM
Originally Posted By forever4:
Want to know all we can learn about these and share this with others.

There were at least 2 threads (probably more) about it in this subforum. They are still new and just making their way through retail channels, so not too many folks have them. I believe there were also one or more threads on them in the ATI industry forum. There are a few threads on other forums about them also and I believe some youtube videos floating around. Information is out there, you just have to go look for it. If you want it to come to you, you may be waiting a while....
forever4
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Posted: 2/10/2010 1:22:03 PM
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Originally Posted By forever4:
Want to know all we can learn about these and share this with others.

There were at least 2 threads (probably more) about it in this subforum. They are still new and just making their way through retail channels, so not too many folks have them. I believe there were also one or more threads on them in the ATI industry forum. There are a few threads on other forums about them also and I believe some youtube videos floating around. Information is out there, you just have to go look for it. If you want it to come to you, you may be waiting a while....


There was one thread about this when a sample was first evaluated. A second thread was by one member who got one and right off made a lot of changes to it. I believed he changed out the upper for a forged alum. one, and did other mods. One other person mentioned that he had got one and it worked, not much more. Not exactly a wealth of information for a site that is dedicated to the AR platform. People come to AFRCOM to get info on all things AR, including AR dedicated uppers. Members shouldn't have to go to other sites to find this.

Other than that this sub-forum has been pretty quiet lately. I thought it might be good to get something new covered in more depth. If this forum is to be at the forefront it shouldn't be sending people to other sites to learn about anything AR related. If you are not the lead dog then the view never changes.
PCFlorida
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Posted: 2/10/2010 9:49:11 PM
[Last Edit: 2/11/2010 4:15:01 AM by PCFlorida]
Originally Posted By forever4:
Originally Posted By PCFlorida:
So I've got one of the ATI / Chiappia uppers. When I first put it on a lower it was quite disappointed. Even with CCI plated ammo it jammed every 4 or 5 rounds. Then I put it on another lower and it has been flawless. Now I only have about 500 rounds through it so far but its been great.

I know, lousy review, but it's my birthday and it was a long day at work.


Its a start, now the big question:

Which lower did it not work well. Which lower did it function well on? What hammers where in these lowers?

Want to know all we can learn about these and share this with others.



Both lowers are Anvil Arms lowers, the difference being the LPK's. The strange thing is, the one that didn't function well is a rounded hammer, I'm not sure who made the LPK, it was a completed lower that I purchased. That particular lower has a collapsible stock. The one that functions 100%, also an Anvil Arms lower has a RRA LPK with the notched hammer and an A2 stock. Go figure huh? But all in all I'm extremely happy with it. Using an economy red dot site from Primary Arms I can cover a 25 yard group with a quarter when using CCI plated ammo.

Next question?
SpecOps-13
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Posted: 2/10/2010 10:08:53 PM
PCFlorida: Cool, Thanx for the info. Happy Belated Birthday Too....

SpecOps-13
You've already missed what just happened, Forever......
The Green has become Red, is running down your into your eyes
and the Green Laser's now shining out the back of your head.....
Ooooops.
VASCAR2
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Posted: 2/11/2010 11:31:55 PM
I was at Whitaker's guns in Ky today and he had Chiappa 22 upper for sale along with the TS M-4 22 upper. Personally I wasn't impressed with the Chiappa/ATI however every TS upper I've seen look great. The TS appear to be as nicely finished as any AR upper I've seen. I currently have 3 dedicated 22 uppers and don't need anymore but the Chiappa polymer upper reminded me of the S&W 15-22 and seemed pretty light. The Chiappa/ATI was only $100 less than the 15-22 so if It were me or the guy I was with we both decided we would buy the S&W 15-22 first or if we wanted a dedicated upper would probably buy the TS. Its your money and your choice but this was just our opinion. I also got to look at Sig 522 and it was pretty cool.
forever4
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:40:14 AM
Originally Posted By VASCAR2:
I was at Whitaker's guns in Ky today and he had Chiappa 22 upper for sale along with the TS M-4 22 upper. Personally I wasn't impressed with the Chiappa/ATI however every TS upper I've seen look great. The TS appear to be as nicely finished as any AR upper I've seen. I currently have 3 dedicated 22 uppers and don't need anymore but the Chiappa polymer upper reminded me of the S&W 15-22 and seemed pretty light. The Chiappa/ATI was only $100 less than the 15-22 so if It were me or the guy I was with we both decided we would buy the S&W 15-22 first or if we wanted a dedicated upper would probably buy the TS. Its your money and your choice but this was just our opinion. I also got to look at Sig 522 and it was pretty cool.


If you put the Chiappa/ATI next to a Tac Sol you won't even think about the price difference. The Tac Sol is so nicely made and finished its a no-brainer. The Chiappa/ATI does cost a bit less however and I suppose that is its main strength. Not everyone has an unlimited budget. I think ATI is marketing it as a more affordable solution, not as a target gun or "the best". I am sure they will give good service for a normal user. But, you make a good point, if a S&W is only $100 more, go with the whole gun!

What is Whitaker's current price on the S & W? I know I called them a while back and they had them for $399 if you picked it up, but they were out of stock at the time. And, what is their price on the Chiappa and the Tac Sol uppers?
PCFlorida
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:04:49 PM
Originally Posted By forever4:
Originally Posted By VASCAR2:
I was at Whitaker's guns in Ky today and he had Chiappa 22 upper for sale along with the TS M-4 22 upper. Personally I wasn't impressed with the Chiappa/ATI however every TS upper I've seen look great. The TS appear to be as nicely finished as any AR upper I've seen. I currently have 3 dedicated 22 uppers and don't need anymore but the Chiappa polymer upper reminded me of the S&W 15-22 and seemed pretty light. The Chiappa/ATI was only $100 less than the 15-22 so if It were me or the guy I was with we both decided we would buy the S&W 15-22 first or if we wanted a dedicated upper would probably buy the TS. Its your money and your choice but this was just our opinion. I also got to look at Sig 522 and it was pretty cool.


If you put the Chiappa/ATI next to a Tac Sol you won't even think about the price difference. The Tac Sol is so nicely made and finished its a no-brainer. The Chiappa/ATI does cost a bit less however and I suppose that is its main strength. Not everyone has an unlimited budget. I think ATI is marketing it as a more affordable solution, not as a target gun or "the best". I am sure they will give good service for a normal user. But, you make a good point, if a S&W is only $100 more, go with the whole gun!

What is Whitaker's current price on the S & W? I know I called them a while back and they had them for $399 if you picked it up, but they were out of stock at the time. And, what is their price on the Chiappa and the Tac Sol uppers?


LOL, you guys crack me up, just as bad as the Colt fanboy's. It's a .22 for crying out loud. I bought it as an accessory to shoot shoot some inexpensive ammo (relatively speaking) in my backyard. It cost me $357 including shipping from Cope's. It uses the BD style mags which I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) the S&W or SIG use. So far in a different lower it has been extremely reliable, and I see the same problems on the forums with Spikes or the TAC Sol upper. I'm not real concerned that it has a polymer upper, again, its a .22 and it looks fine. Fit and finish is great for its intended purpose. About the only change I'm going to make it to ditch the front site and put on a cheap gas block instead so I don't have to see the sight when I'm looking through the red dot.


If I want to shoot an expensive .22 I'll take my Anschutz competition rifle out and cut string at 100 yards :)

And if money is no object then why don't you guys pony up the $25 and support this site.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 7:51:12 PM
To each their own and I have no problems with people buying what they want. I was mainly commenting on the lighter weight which some people will like and others will dislike. As far as Whitakers the Chiappa/ATI was $299, S&W 15-22 $399 and TS M-4 $499 IIRC. My memory isn't what it used to be and the Sig 522 does use BDM pattern Ciener/Atchisson style of mags. I personally built my first dedicated AR 22 to mimic my duty rifle for training purposes. I also like the fact that any part can currently be found for the Ciener/Atchisson bolt and I have spare firing pins and extractors. I really never have worn out a 22 LR gun in my lifetime but I'm trying.
forever4
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Posted: 2/13/2010 9:36:20 AM
"LOL, you guys crack me up, just as bad as the Colt fanboy's. It's a .22 for crying out loud. I bought it as an accessory to shoot shoot some inexpensive ammo (relatively speaking) in my backyard. It cost me $357 including shipping from Cope's. It uses the BD style mags which I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) the S&W or SIG use. So far in a different lower it has been extremely reliable, and I see the same problems on the forums with Spikes or the TAC Sol upper. I'm not real concerned that it has a polymer upper, again, its a .22 and it looks fine. Fit and finish is great for its intended purpose. About the only change I'm going to make it to ditch the front site and put on a cheap gas block instead so I don't have to see the sight when I'm looking through the red dot. "

I think we are doing just what readers want, that is evaluating the options so that a perspective buyer can make an informed decision. Isn't that the point of discussion?

Case in point: You just wanted something to run some .22 ammo through so the lower priced ATI unit was fine for that purpose. For others they want certain features or the ability to make changes down the road. For some they appreciate finely made firearms and a bit more money is OK with them.

So, this discussion is for those who don't know but want to compare without buying all the possible units out there. If I recall I made a comment about the ATI being fine for the price. After 50 years of shooting and gun ownership I appreciate the finely made Tac Sol and will pay extra for that. That's me, others will make their own decisions. But, it should be their decision based on their wants. I don't recall anyone here saying one was "better" than the other. The Tac Sol and the Spikes are not cheap! Some would even consider them over-priced. Its up to the buyer what they want from the unit and how much they are willing to spend.

Its great to be an American!
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Posted: 2/13/2010 1:42:24 PM
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 1:59:14 PM by Rocker]

I would try one if $300 or less. I want to make a light AR version next with Cav arms lower and was thinking LW Tac sol but if these things work and are cheap I might consider.

FWIW the Sig 522 uses and comes with BDM mags.
forever4
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Posted: 2/13/2010 3:15:15 PM
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 3:15:52 PM by forever4]
Originally Posted By Rocker:

I would try one if $300 or less. I want to make a light AR version next with Cav arms lower and was thinking LW Tac sol but if these things work and are cheap I might consider.

FWIW the Sig 522 uses and comes with BDM mags.


I have a Cav Arms lower with a Tac Sol LT light weight upper. Its 4.5 pounds of fine shooting rifle. Can't believe the light weight. Everyone who shoots it loves it. But, it ain't cheap! The ATI upper, if it holds up, sounds like a good deal at $299. If you can find a Cav Arms lower you can build a nice lightweight rifle with it and the ATI upper for right around $500.

Now you have something to compare: the S & W, the Sig 522, the Cav Arms/ATI gun, then throw in the new GSG-5 22 plus some others out there. A nice selection of rifles for about $500. We are all winners on this one! All of these combinations are nice firearms. Its now up to the shooter as to what works best for them as price sort of levels the playing field. I love it!