I have been looking at the both of these.  M&P is over $100 cheaper than the Colt.  Now keep in mind you get what you pay for correct?  

The M&P is a plastic upper and lower reciever, making it lighter, but not as durable. Plastic makes me think, oh crap I will break this thing. The Colt M4 looks and feels like your standard entry AR15 .223 and comes with removable carry handle. No plastic except the handguard and grip.  Im leaning towards paying the extra for the Colt.  Anyone else have any opinions on this?  I am merely using this to to throw around for tactical training courses, moving targets, stop and shoot, etc, to cut down on the cost of ammuntion so I can go wild during rapid fire sessions.

Input? Anyone seen any good prices for the Colt M4 .22LR entry? The best deals I have seen retail in my area are at $599.

Seriously, My opinion of either isn't good. The Smith was looking promising at first but
was released with many problems as was the Colt. Buy a real lower and a dedicated
upper. I expect the Colt to go extinct. The Smith will follow, if they don't fix all the problems.


JMO,
SpecOps-13

Hmm....There is the other option of going with the drop in bolt/carrier group and dedicated .22lr magazine through my .223/5.56, but I cant get over the fact that I am putting dirty and slightly different sized ammunition through my fluted SS barrel.

What problems is the Colt M4 having besides not feeding anything but Federal .22LR?

I have one of the first production S&W 15-22's and all I have is good things to say about it.  I guess I got one before the bad batch of extractors/ejector problems.  I have set mine up to mimic my duty M4 and I have to say it's a great training tool on-the-cheap.  The battery-of-arms in operation mimics the real-deal with exception to weight.  It is really really light, but that makes it have a super fast transition speed.  Sure, it's not a rifle that fits the needs of everyone, but they seem to be way too underrated on this site.  I've also shot the colt, but ended up buying the smith personally as it was more customizable to my needs and way easier to clean.  My advice, try to find someone near you with one, the colt or the smith, and try it out for yourself.

I have heard good things about the S&W, not so much concerning the Colt

You could use Spikes conversion unit and get the gas tube plug with it and ss cleans up very well

I have friends who had both the S&W MP 15-22 and Colt/ Umarex M4 OPS and I shot both pretty extensively.  The guy who had the Colt/Umarex   traded off his dedicated 22 AR on a Whim then bought the Colt/Umarex.  He quickly found he didn't like the Colt/Umarex and sold it.   He is now building another dedicated 22 which will match his duty rifle.  The other friend bought the S&W MP 15-22 and he is totally satisfied.  The 15-22 has been totally reliable with good ammo and is a lot easier to clean than the Colt/Umarex.  The only issue I had with the S&W is it is very light compared to my AR's which some people will prefer.  The S&W trigger was quite a bit heavier than I like but can be easily fixed.  If I didn't own a dedicated 22 AR I would consider the S&W MP 15-22.  I feel their polymer upper receivers will hold up and the design is a lot better than the Colt/Umarex IIHO.  Personally I prefer the new dedicated AR 15 uppers on the market with a real AR 15 lower.

At the $450-550 price point, you're awfully close to a dedicated .22LR upper from Model 1 Sales, CMMG, or Spike's Tactical, and you'll have the right twist, bore, and everything.

At the $200 price point are your conversion kits. A recent thread details a US Army study 35 years ago indicating no risk of barrel damage, and according too my limited experience and SpecOps' much more extensive experience, conversions can give useful accuracy even in modern fast twist barrels- see his sticky on this topic-GREAT information.

Beart in mind that the Colt has a skinny liner in a cast shroud, in a clamshell receiver held together by transverse screws. Structurally it's ZINC!

The S&W has a T/C barrel, and accepts real AR lockwork.

For $500 you get to use your own lower, trigger, etc with a dedicated.

I have the S&W and I love it.  It's very accurate and very reliable (only one malfunction in around a thousands rounds, and that was a bad round I think).  It's also easy to clean and has familiar internals.  I know some people have had extractor issues.  Maybe I'm just lucky.
The mags are well built and affordable.  You do have to be a little bit careful about loading them correctly.

I am not a big fan of the polymer construction, but it seems sturdy so far.  For training purposes I would prefer a little more weight, but for plinking it's nice.

A dedicated build from Spikes would be my ideal .22lr rifle, but the S&W has been a great deal for the money so far.

I looked at both the same day side by side before buying the S&W. My S&W has had only 1 malfunction, FTE in over 800 rounds. I didn't like the Colt trigger at all, grainy and stacked up something fierce. I also didn't like the fact that I couldn't put a different trigger in the Colt if I wanted too. IMHO the S&W is twice the gun the Colt is.

I have owned both the Colt M4 OPS and the S&W 15-22. I no longer own the Colt M4. I did not like the construction of the Colt, difficult to clean, and trigger was just plain awful. It did go bang when I pulled the trigger.

I had an issue with my S&W 15-22. Extractor broke. S&W sent me a prepaid shipping lable and I sent it to be repaired. When I got it back they also sent me two free magazines. Great customer service. Uses a Thompson Center barrel and is manufactured in the USA by S&W.

Knowing what I do now, I would buy the 15-22 again. The polymer construction does not bother me. I also own Glocks and M&P semi autos.

I also own dedicated .22 cal uppers. But that was not the OPs question.

I have a S&W MP15-22 and have fed 1,200 rounds through it with no real problems. I have never had a FTE, just some FTL's with crappy Remmington .22 ammo.  The last 1,000 rounds have been American Eagle ( federal ) with no problems. Other than the gun being very light, I see no problems with it at all. The few problems people have had, Smith & Wesson has immediately taken care of.

Stay away from the Colt, as the mechanicals are absolutely junk.

No contest. S&W.

With all that being said, I have heard that some of the S&W's have been good and
I've heard about the same number having problems. I'd buy a "Good One", if I knew it
was going to be.

With the sale Black Dog Machine has right now. It's hard to pass up. Tactical Solutions
Uppers are very nice.....

http://blackdogmachinellc.net/ar15-uppers.aspx

Either way, Good Luck,
Spec

I must be one of the few who like the fact that the S&W is made from polymer. All the S&W needs now is an orange flash suppressor to be a rifle in true urban camouflage.

Looks like I have made my decision and I am going to omit the choice of both.  Im going with the tactical solutions upper from blackdog.



Best deal out there currently IMO. Thanks for the info.

I currently own both and the S&W is by FAR the better of the two. I have shot the S&W in two Appleseed events with no problems whatsover. The Colt, however, has had 11 misfires in the first 25 rounds through it. I have tried 2 different manufacturers of ammo so far; both shoot in the S&W, and neither will shoot in the Colt.
Fit and finish on the Colt is sub-par, it is heavier and the non-functioning bolt catch is one of the most ignorant designs by far. The catch falls out every time you break the action (if you can get the pin out) unless you put your thumb on it until you can put it where it won't get lost.  The dust cover on the ejection port is also non functional, but it does have a spring plunger that will allow you to close it. Then you better get a screwdriver and pry it open as I'm pretty sure it won't open if you fire the weapon. All in all, I suspect I will be selling the Colt/Umarex if I can figure out what ammo works in it. Last night I bought 6 different kinds of ammo, even some $20 a box match ammo to see if I can get 20 good rounds out of it. I've already ordered another S&W. If you've ever been to an Appleseed you know part of the training is timed shooting, and you can't score points if you're digging out un-spent rounds. Oh, and I don't work for S&W, either.

If you have handled the Colt, you know that the Smith is by far the better rifle.  I've got an M&P coming next week, I'm almost secretly wishing for it to have problems so I can send it back to S&W on their dime and get more free magazines.  S&W has great customer service.

I've had my M&P for about  month now. Following an initial trial at an indoor range, I was able to get outdoors last weekend & put it through some real paces. Pleasantly surprised with accuracy using Federal 36-gr. HP's & is nearly a 1-holer at 60-yds. using this load. The CCI Stingers didn't favor as well, but they're not known to be very accurate in much of anything anyhow.

Gun is topped off with CenterPoint 3-9x scope, with a 45-degree side mount & a Burris FastFire dot mounted for in-close shooting. At 25-yds. or so, very pleased with the performance & precision using the 4-MOA dot.

This guy has found a new toy that is reliable, fun, & cheap to shoot!

I have 3 COLTS first 2 were BROKE right out of the box 3rd one went out the door when they sent it to me.the S&W Plastic crap.i LOST $100 on it and i bought it Wholesale and was HAPPY to loose that $100 just to get ride of it! thanks john

Took my colt to the range today and tried 8 different types of ammo. I used the same mag first time through and loaded 5 rounds to see if they would all fire. EVERY 5 round salvo had at least one misfire on all of the ammo's. I changed mags for no particular reason, and had the same results. It almost seems like the firing pin is too short. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm at a loss to explain it. Brand new out of the box rifle too. TIA

I bought the S&W because the Colt did not allow AR Trigger parts.

I couldn't be happier and I am even thinking of selling my ATI MP5 to buy a second one.

My second S&W is already on order. Now I'm anxious to try all the different ammo I bought just to make the Colt work in the S&W to see which one gives me the best groups. So far my impression of the Colt is it's a POS. I'll probably sell it at a loss.

x2 im just waiting for the gsg-5 to go up in price after the new year.
I got one already and love it cant wait to get another.

hasn't the GSG been discontinued?

YES IT HAS

I seriously doubt it goes up in price.  I think more people are going to be wary of having  a gun that they may not get parts for, then they are willing to gamble it going up in value much more.  Not to mention, the lawsuit only dictates that the gun be discontinued in its current design form.  I am willing to bet ATI is going to do something simple like change the sights, or the stock, or the foregrip, and put them right back on the market.  And as soon as they do that, everyone is going to want the new fangled latest and greatest and quickly forget about the original style MP5.

I have a S&W. My dad went out and bought one immediately after shooting mine. Both are highly reliable, and super fun to shoot. I am running an experiment and not cleaning mine at all. I'm guessing I have 1,000+ rounds through it. I run Federal bulk box and I don't think I have had any problems with extraction, and only a few feed related problems which I attributed to some brand new magazines that I bought. My guess was the mags needed a little use before they fed 100%.

jonblack

Can you detail the problem's with the S&W15-22 that you are referring to?  To my knowledge, there are only a few issues that have occurred. One is broken ejectors, usually directly related to an OOB incident with crappy ammo.  Out of spec ejectors causing FTE's in a limited number of rifles.  I've heard of one or two cracked feed ramps, and one case where the extractor went missing.  In all cases,  S&W has happily and promptly repaired/upgraded the rifle (usually with a two week turn around), and has often shipped it back with two free magazines for the trouble.  All of these problems seem pretty trivial and/or isolated incidents.  And every report that I've read said the rifle ran 100% after repair/upgrade.  I'm no S&W fanboy (the M&P15-22 is the only S&W I own), but I hate seeing people continue to propagate false or misinformed claims about products that they have no personal experience with.

Anyway, as for my personal experience, I love my M&P15-22.  Just finished off my 4th federal 500 pk (40 gr solids).  Not one misfeed, FTF or FTE.  Trigger was a little rough for the first 500 rnds, but has smoothed out nicely.   Best of all, it's the ONLY .22 ar out there (that I know of) with the same controls as a real AR (except the length of pull on the charging handle is shorter, and the forward assist is missing), making it the perfect low cost trainer.  I was a little worried about the weight at first, but it really has not been an issue.  IMO, it's more important that it has exactly the same manual arms as the real thing.

I have not shot the Umarex (colt), but I was not impressed with it's construction.  Could not stand the 180 degree safety selector, or the fake bolt catch.  Just didn't like how it was built at all.  The only thing I did like was the weight.

Concur 100% with your post. I really like the S&W 15-22. Ex Colt M4 OPS owner.

I have a feeling that alot of the negativity toward the S&W may have alot to do with marketing........if people LOVE the S&W, less BDM mags will be sold.

I need to run throw my flame suit on.......

P.S. I have 2 Ciener style kits, one in a dedicated .22 carbine and the same in a dedicate pistol......I have a large number of BDM mags and will buy more. I have one 50rd drum and need more.

But............I also plan to buy a S&W 15-22.

love my M&P15-22. S&W FTW!

I just picked up my new Tactical Solutions .22lr upper. Just need to find a rear sight and she will be ready to go.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/rosstang/TS_M4_1.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/rosstang/TS_M4_Full.jpg

Thanks for having the cojones to point this out...while many of the dedicated uppers touted here are certainly good stuff, they are also EXPENSIVE stuff.  When Smith/Colt/Ruger can market guns in the $500 range and still undercut some of this competition, there is a message there somewhere.  When the frenzy cools, there will be bargains to be had.

I have a 15-22, like it a lot, had it back to S&W to have some things rectified, and am entirely satisfied with the result.  Smith's customer service is second to none.
Moon