I'm totally satisfied with mine. I've run about 300 through it so far on F/A and aside from a few ammo related problems, not a lick of trouble out of it.

Mag:


With a friend:


M16/22:


Video!

First test:


Another mag dump:


here's a close up:



Enjoy!

I'm VERY pleased with mine.

Thanks again, Kevin.  

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=340275

I also have to add that I have run a bunch through it since that post and it has still been flawless. I LOVE IT!  Since then I have been able to test it in my other AR's and it has been just as good so I can't be happier with a mag. (and can you find a pickier round than 22lr?) I also have to add that in my guns it's scary how close it is to being able to runs shorts in it. I have NEVER been able to shoot them other than drop one in the chamber. The ciener mag while not designed to do it just plain wouldn't. No big deal. But while playing around found out that I can get 3 rounds to shoot time after time out of the BDM. I know it wasn't supposed to shoot them either but it will do three in my guns. (thats three shots of "cheap" quiet if you know what I mean.

I just need more of them AND A LOADER. (damn they get empty fast)

My copy and paste review post..............
Let me start with...this thing rocks. If they all work like it I couldn't be happier. My cieners have always been good mags and reliable but this puts them to shame.
Sooo let me begin.

Like everyone else has said, this thing feels tough and solid as a rock. A very stout piece. Mag is smooth and looks nice. A test loading shows the first ten are no problem. Second ten are not too much harder. After that it was much stiffer but 5 more were no problem. The last 2 rounds will fit but right now are much more work than they are worth. I'm guessing it will soften up with age but if not no big deal. I'm happy to have a mag like this that by the looks of it I wouldn't be afraid to drop on concrete unlike my cieners which "might" need some tweaking after doing so. Color wise I was impressed with the smoke. While I want black and will probably buy black they looked better than a smoke colored butler creek for a 10/22.

I don't need to show more pics of the mags since my camera sucks and there are already great shots of them. What I will show is more comparisons to some others I have for size.

The first is A 40, BDM's, my home made ciener fullsize, and a standard 30.


The second is from the side with the mag catch lined up so you can see the length difference and the feed lip height. (somewhat. again, sorry for the crappy camera)



The only gun that I've had time to shoot the mag in is my frankinAR carbine semi auto. It's an unknown upper with a spikes lower with an oly stainless barrel. The ciener is a standard kit. This gun is pretty new and I just got it running GOOD on 22lr about a week ago. So it was not only a trial by fire for the mag, but the gun too. (most of this came off EE)



Function testing the mag showed it slipped in both my AR's fine and dropped free on it's own.Nice and tight in the magwell with no wiggle at all. So far so good so I grab a box of each of what I had and hit the backyard.
Ammo consisted of agulia se subs, agulia sss, wolf mt, wolf me, stingers,cci mini mags and federal bulk out of the milk cartons.


Thats all I had at the time and it was after work so there was "only so much time" that night. I could go into detail of what each round did, but plain and simple it was a non issue. Load mag, insert mag, pull trigger, gun goes bang. Out of the 50 of each box, 100 mini mags and the balance being federal bulk for a total of 450 rounds I had one stovepipe. Care to guess what round? Agulia subs. I thought that was pretty darn good and usually have more than that with my AR's and that round. (about 3/5 in 20) I don't normally even run it since it's not one of it's favorites and high failure rate. So I can't even begin to think it was anything more than a ammo/soft round problem. I also have to add that it (my ciener) has NEVER run any round with so few failures let alone the mix I fed it. I would say while I was never unhappy with it average was about about 1 to 2 in 200 on a good day.

I will hopefully get out this weekend so I can really put a few down the pipe out of both guns. I just spent the last 2 days reformatting my computer after a huge crash that I lost everything. So that has slowed down my testing. Go figure, it happened the same day I got the mag, did some testing and wanted to tell the tale.

If I have anything to even try and gripe about so I don't sound like a damn suck up is make the inserts black so they don't stand out so bad. Thats about it.

Thanks alot Kevin. You have made a great product. My $.02 thinks it's as good as the TI mags for my 10/22. Thats saying a lot if you've ever put up with the other crap out there for that gun.And while I don't think we will make you a millionaire on it alone, you will dig in quite a few of our pockets for these mags. I can't wait for more!

And while a great thing to get locked..........whats the problem about too many posts about a subject thats the best thing since sliced bread?
J/K It will be nice to have them all in one spot.

I have several of the first generation BDM mags.  I am very satisfied with their performance.  I have an older Ciener kit with a lot of rounds on it.  I had two issues with my magazines.  One had a weak spring.  I had to widen the feed lips of all of them with a razor to run without obstructing the Ciener bolt.  Once these issues were overcome, they have proven to be far more reliable then my Ciener magazines.

5oulja was kind enough to let me play with his full body test magazine the other day.  I was impressed with it's appearance.  I laid it on the floor and stomped on it quite hard.  It survived unscathed.  On the back of the full body magazine, the rib made the magazine extremely difficult to insert and remove in my Superior lower.  It fit and removed with ease in all the other lowers.  The older Superior lower is not compatible with the P-MAG, either, so this is not the fault of the BDM mag.  However, Smith & Wesson lowers have similar issues, so this may be something to consider in a host gun.

I was able to fit and seat the full body mag in my Superior lower.  The feed lip geometry is much improved; I had to do no trimming for the magazine to work.  In general, it fed quite well, with only a few minor double-feeds, most likely due to the fact that the magazine was brand new.

I used CCI Mini Mags to evaluate the magazine.  With this ammo, the magazine would only accommodate 25 rounds instead of 27.  The upper I used to evaluate the magazine with has a 6" 1:12 twist barrel with no gas port, and was hosting 5oulja's  Tac 65(?) suppressor at the time.  

I like the BDM full body magazine enough to order several through Kyle Blagg at Ballistic Sounds.  

Originally Posted By blackdogmachine: I have been experimenting cutting some springs down 1 and 1 1/2" shorter and found that the mags load easier and still retain the lift for good feeding. I would start at 1" and go from there for those who don't like the spring that tight. If the spring mod is made I would  point the clipped end to the bottom and be sure to crimp the tail in a little bit so it doesn't ride over the spring keeper. My next batch of springs will be 11" instead of 12".

Kevin,

We had a request yesterday for a Stainless Steel follower. What's your take on that?

Just got 6 mags in the other day and shot them all today. Fit was perfect and they functiond 100%.

The only problem I had with the mags was loading. In 4 of the mags the spring was so hard I could only get about 22 + - 1. I had to push so hard I dented the bullet shells that were already loaded in the mags. The skinny mags load with out much force. I will try to cut down the sping a .5-1'' and see if that helps.

All in all I really like the new look, feel, and function of the new mags but loading was a PITF (pain in the finger).

If the spring cutting works I will order more full bodys and if it does not work I will just stock up on more skinnys.

BDM after you complete some other projects it would be great if you could try to make a reliable 40-50 round mag for us full auto junkies.

Originally Posted By blackdogmachine: We now have a new mold that makes the red followers and spring keepers, if installed in the 1st gen mags they hold 32 rds. Any interest in us offering these  as a add on?

i've had excellent results with mine. i'd support offering them as an upgrade or on all new mags sent out from now on

The full size mags work as is, I would change nothing

almost a thousand rds through this one mag so far and still zero malfunctions.

Originally Posted By blackdogmachine: We now have a new mold that makes the red followers and spring keepers, if installed in the 1st gen mags they hold 32 rds. Any interest in us offering these  as a add on?

How much for these upgrades?

I could try out 10 if they are not that expensive.

Also I agree they should be standered on the skinny mags in the future if they run well.

Who had the best deal on these mags now a days ??

Any suggestions on what to look for concerning these mags / conversions ??

there are still many nice photos of these mags in the other threads that were locked by the ADMIN. since the original owners havn't reposted them yet, I thought I might, so there is one spot for them. (sorry if I offend the picture owners, just trying to keep everything in one place)

From Punani's thread here

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Ciener/IMG_5804.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Ciener/IMG_5805.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Ciener/IMG_5806.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Ciener/IMG_5807.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Ciener/IMG_5808.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Ciener/IMG_5809.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Ciener/IMG_5810.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Webb%208-28-07/IMG_5816.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/ypke02/Webb%208-28-07/IMG_5832.jpg

and here are some nice comparison photos of the old and new mags posted by stretch415 here

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/stretch415/IMG_0389.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/stretch415/IMG_0387.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/stretch415/IMG_0386.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/stretch415/IMG_0383.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/stretch415/IMG_0385.jpg

Originally Posted By PLRinmypocket: Snip!

Thanks! I haven't had time to do it myself.

Your welcome

Here's a few more nice pictures I found originally posted by 5oulja here

the new red follower parts and mold tree
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r264/Savage2469/DSC00335.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r264/Savage2469/DSC00333.jpg

and here are some more comparison photos of old and new originally posted by Riven02 here

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/Riven02/IMG_2330.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/Riven02/IMG_2338.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/Riven02/IMG_2345.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/Riven02/IMG_2348.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/Riven02/IMG_2350.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/Riven02/IMG_2351.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/Riven02/IMG_2290.jpg

this should be the last group

some nice comparisons with .223 30 rounders originally posted by AZ3GUNNER here

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/AZERIC/BDM/Magazines.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/AZERIC/BDM/USGILength.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/AZERIC/BDM/BDMLength.jpg

Yesterday I fired a few hundred rounds through my new full-body BDM.

I had already made the spring mod (1" removed), but getting any more than 22 was a chore, and 25 seemed to be the max.

With Thunderbolts and Mini-Mags it was flawless.  Golden Bullet pretty much didn't work at all (FTF -- same as with my BDM skinnies).

Overall I like these new magazines over the old ones.  They look a whole hell of a lot better, and with some minor refinements could be even better.

I had the same issue. even after cutting 1" off the spring it would barelly get past 25 rounds. Now it can hold 28rounds (Just barelly, but it does still feed).

I cut off about 90% of the red recoil spring plunger (the one that locks into the bottom plate). I left just enough of it for one coil of the spring to catch on. it does make assembly A little trickier, since the plunger might try to rotate on you, but it does make loading easier.

the remington golden ammo issue I believe is simply an ammo issue. I have noticed that the bullets are all very loosely held in the case and it can actually bend a few degrees, and you can rotate the bullets by hand. The lead also seems very soft, and deforms easilly. It might be fine for a bolt-action, but not a semi. (federal bulk red box feeds very well)

What are the sources for the BDM mags?  I just saw these for the first time.

Got my mags from Kblagg, and was pleased with the prompt delivery.

Now that I have my own mags instead of 5oulja's prototype, I am pleased to say that the production models have none of the fit problems in my Superior lower that I experienced with the prototype.  They drop in and out fine, and I had no feeding problems to speak of.

Finally had a chance to test out the 3 mags.  
I cut 1/2" off each spring right out of the box.
27 rounds were the most I could squeeze in, but I'm satisfied to load 20 or 25.
I ran each mag 5 times with an average of 20 rounds each fill.
Not a single FTF or FTE the entire session.
They fed flawlessly whether I slow fired or emptied the mag as quick as I could
I couldn't be happier and will likely pick up another 3 in the near future.
I've never tried the original skinny BDM mags, but these things blow the original metal ciener mags away.

I got my mags from kblagg and very happy with service, prompt shipping and tracking number.

I ran my two mags with Federal Champion bulk pack ammo and all went exceptionally well.  The best I could squeeze into each mag was 26 rounds.  No FTF, FTE as i experienced in the original Ciener 10 round mag (but that was Rem Golden Bullets).

Kudos on the material quality.  We really need a faster (and affordable) way of speed loading these bad boys.

If I were to place an order from Black Dog today, then would the mags I receive already come with the red internals and the shortened spring?

Also, other than the obvious color differences, are there any other notable differences in functioning or reliability between the smoke, clear, black or gray variants?  Has anybody found that one color works better than others?

Originally Posted By kblagg: Originally Posted By blackdogmachine: I have about 450 ciener mags in the grey color, kyle I thought I sent some to you? And yes it is all the same material, just a color additive in  there. Nope, back when I placed my order the gray models weren't in production yet.

Darn!  Darn!  Darn!

I JUST ordered 7 mags from Kyle on Tuesday (got them yesterday - great service!).  I was going to go with the gray too but went with black instead......Ohh well.

Brad

Just ordered 24 of the mags for the Houston area!.

9 clear and 15 smoked.

I'll post pics when I get them on the M16.

I wish these magazines existed when I was designing rimfire rifles. I have no plans to design or develop any more rifles.

However using the BDM/Ciener combo I think it is very possbile to easily make the following type rifles,
FAMAS using a combo of high-end airsoft parts and real parts.
Galil using real parts and a easy to assemble aluminum receiver
FG42, not sure what to do about the stock or bipod
AUG, use real stocks from CDNN

And several others, may as well have fun with it if you can.

BDM, thanks for making a fine product.
Also thanks for giving customers the option of not dealing with J Ciener.
Ciener is a jerk to deal with and I enjoy spending my money with BDM instead of Ciener.
I wish you could put Ciener out of Business.
All I need now is for BDM to make Mini-14/AC-556 .22 mags and I never have to deal with Ciener again.

Put a lil vid of me shooting my Spikes with BDM 27 rounder..


www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0B2r-fY7Cc

CXS

What is the best source for 10 round mags for those of us in freedom-challenged People Republic of Kalifornistan?

I'd love to build up a .22 conversion, and need only a source of decent mags to get going.

I'm looking at an upper from Spikes.  Is there a better choice?

Can the BDM's be modified (permanently) to 10 rounders?  Can the BDM's be disassembled, so that one could limit capacity maybe by bonding a block in at the 10 round point or something?

TIA.  I've never even seen one of these set ups in real life so it's hard to know how things fit together.

height=8

Originally Posted By JALLEN: ... Can the BDM's be modified (permanently) to 10 rounders?  Can the BDM's be disassembled, so that one could limit capacity maybe by bonding a block in at the 10 round point or something? .....

Check out the pictures on page 1 of this thread, there is a nice view of the mag dis-assembled and you could easilly bond a block in one or both of the magazine halves that would limit capacity.

Would this bonding be enough for California law? I thought it would have to be a permanent thing, so the mags could never be modified to be larger capacity? If all it takes is an extra piece of plastic blocking the magazine from being filled past 10 then BDM could EASILLY modify the mold to add a plastic rib that blocks the follower to both halves of the mag.

A little web searching and I think I answered my own question.

Here is a quote I am quoting form this calguns thread:

height=8

12276.1(3)(d) The following definitions shall apply under this section: (1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device. (2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

so as long as it is a permenent mod (can't get much more permanent than epoxy) then the 27round mags can be modified to be 10 rounders.

You beat me to it.  The alteration would have to be permanent.

How much trouble would it be to epoxy some spacers in to limit the capacity?

Someone out of state would have to do it, as shipping the unmodified ones into CA would be a big no-no.

I imagine there would be enough of us CA shooters to make it worthwhile to build them.

We can't own so-called "assault rifles", and even with the interpretation for fixed magazines issues, a rimfire M16/M4/AR15 in semi auto would be very attractive to many, but you need 10 round magazines that work, and are relatively affordable.

based on the last few posts in this calguns thread you won't have to wait long before BDM has some CAL legal ciener mags.

epoxying a spacer in would be very easy since the mag comes apart in 2 halves. You would need to find someone out of state to do it for you. It might be easier just to wait for the inevitable production mags.

Thanks for bringing that thread to my attention.  I am active on Calguns, but had not seen that thread in the Rifleman's Forum.  I mostly hang out in the Law and Politics section, as that is where all the bitching and moaning and plotting and scheming goes on.  I should widen my horizons a bit!  I'll keep checking on that one.  Something to look forward to!!

I received the most welcome news this morning that Black Dog Machines will begin producing magazines that are limited to 10 rounds, and so marked, by the end of the month.

These will be Whackyland legal.