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Posted: 4/13/2017 7:39:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Is the BA barrel pencil or LW profile?
BTW, a sling for a rifle is like a holster for a pistol. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 9:12:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW, a sling for a rifle is like a holster for a pistol. To the OP, depending on where you live I would look into ammo that has limited penetration. For me that's important. At one end of my house is the master bedroom and at the other end is the kids rooms so that why I use a shotgun with bird shot. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 11:49:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True however if it's for home defense... My home defense pistol doesn't reside in a holster. And my shotgun doesn't wear a sling. To the OP, depending on where you live I would look into ammo that has limited penetration. For me that's important. At one end of my house is the master bedroom and at the other end is the kids rooms so that why I use a shotgun with bird shot. OP, since you're using this rifle to get your wife familiarized with the platform and get her comfortable, I would seriously consider using an optic. Removing some of the intricacies of iron sight technique (sight alignment/sight picture/etc) from early training and letting her focus on the other fundamentals of marksmanship should speed up her progress. It also helps that an RDS is perfect for HD. As far as the sling goes, it's added retention should you ever end up hands on with an intruder. It also allows you to keep the weapon on your person should you have to use your hands for other tasks. Your choice in the end. Just something to consider. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:20:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Just finished a KISS mid-length build for home defense. Went with BA QPQ barrel and Apoc QPQ BCG on Anderson receivers, gun function testing has been completed with zero issues. I installed a MI picatinny mount on the front sight and installed a Streamlight ProTac 350 L light. I'm pretty sure I want to install tritium sights and don't wish to put any other optics on right now. I'm not really sure I want a sling to possibly get snagged at a real bad moment during CQB. I'm using this gun to get my wife acclimated to the AR platform so everything has to stay "basic" until she gets cozy. What else am I needing ? TIA Pete Tritium sights are not visible after the first shot due to muzzle flash and not visible at all if you activate the weapon light. I have them on my Glock and recognize the limitation. Get a small lightweight duty grade red dot like Leupold Deltapoint Pro mini reflex, Trijicon MRO or Aimpoint micro. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:31:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Mine is a suppressed 4.5" 9mm, all it wears is the can, a light, and an eotech. No irons, nothing fancy. Nothing to snag, no muzzle flash, no ringing ear from shooting indoors.
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Posted: 4/14/2017 1:36:29 AM EDT
[#6]
dupe, sorry!
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Posted: 4/14/2017 1:36:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:To the OP, depending on where you live I would look into ammo that has limited penetration. For me that's important. At one end of my house is the master bedroom and at the other end is the kids rooms so that why I use a shotgun with bird shot. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 1:31:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
aim for the face, and don't miss. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 2:57:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I believe having a sling is important in a home defence rifle. It keeps the rifle attached to you so it can't be taken away. If you were to trip and fall, your rifle could go flying where you don't want it to go. Iron sights with a good white light is all that's needed. You have to remember if you have to engage a threat in your house, it will be 25ft or less more than likely. point and shoot distance. my.02
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Posted: 4/14/2017 11:53:11 PM EDT
[#10]
The 870 Tactical (w light/no sling) is on MY side of the bed LOL. She's petite so I wanted a low-recoil long gun she can handle effectively on very short notice w/o struggling to power up a RDS. Chambering the gun and activating the light may be all she has time for unfortunately. I did just run across Blitzkreig's replacement front sight pins and may go with one since they're cheap and seem to stand out pretty good. Thanks Guys !
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Posted: 4/15/2017 1:16:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 870 Tactical (w light/no sling) is on MY side of the bed LOL. She's petite so I wanted a low-recoil long gun she can handle effectively on very short notice w/o struggling to power up a RDS. Chambering the gun and activating the light may be all she has time for unfortunately. I did just run across Blitzkreig's replacement front sight pins and may go with one since they're cheap and seem to stand out pretty good. Thanks Guys ! |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 2:04:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True however if it's for home defense... My home defense pistol doesn't reside in a holster. And my shotgun doesn't wear a sling. To the OP, depending on where you live I would look into ammo that has limited penetration. For me that's important. At one end of my house is the master bedroom and at the other end is the kids rooms so that why I use a shotgun with bird shot. Birdshot is less-lethal, and no substitute for buckshot, slugs, or rifle rounds. #4 buck would be the minimum I'd use, or a rifle using ammunition that fragments consistently. Anything that will stop a perp reliably will go through drywall; your best bet is something that will not overpenetrate after fragmenting/expanding. |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 7:40:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh for frak's sake... Birdshot is less-lethal, and no substitute for buckshot, slugs, or rifle rounds. #4 buck would be the minimum I'd use, or a rifle using ammunition that fragments consistently. Anything that will stop a perp reliably will go through drywall; your best bet is something that will not overpenetrate after fragmenting/expanding. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
True however if it's for home defense... My home defense pistol doesn't reside in a holster. And my shotgun doesn't wear a sling. To the OP, depending on where you live I would look into ammo that has limited penetration. For me that's important. At one end of my house is the master bedroom and at the other end is the kids rooms so that why I use a shotgun with bird shot. Birdshot is less-lethal, and no substitute for buckshot, slugs, or rifle rounds. #4 buck would be the minimum I'd use, or a rifle using ammunition that fragments consistently. Anything that will stop a perp reliably will go through drywall; your best bet is something that will not overpenetrate after fragmenting/expanding. But, where family will be behind the intruder another solution is needed. don't know what it might be. Perhaps highly frangible handgun ammo or similar ammo for the shotgun, frangible but larger than birdshot, if such exists? |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 7:54:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get a PRO and leave it on 24/7. No need to turn anything on should you need it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The 870 Tactical (w light/no sling) is on MY side of the bed LOL. She's petite so I wanted a low-recoil long gun she can handle effectively on very short notice w/o struggling to power up a RDS. Chambering the gun and activating the light may be all she has time for unfortunately. I did just run across Blitzkreig's replacement front sight pins and may go with one since they're cheap and seem to stand out pretty good. Thanks Guys ! |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 8:14:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Wife and I only residents so anyone here after dark is an intruder, period. I have some 55gr V-Max ammo in the gun currently since it's supposed to tumble and frag more easily than FMJ with somewhat shallower penetration in both flesh and hard barriers. I run TAP reduced recoil BS in the scattergun for faster followup shots. I also have "heavier" rounds for AR and SG. I thought about the PRO optic but just don't want to spend that kind of $$ right now.
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Posted: 4/15/2017 8:31:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wife and I only residents so anyone here after dark is an intruder, period. I have some 55gr V-Max ammo in the gun currently since it's supposed to tumble and frag more easily than FMJ with somewhat shallower penetration in both flesh and hard barriers. I run TAP reduced recoil BS in the scattergun for faster followup shots. I also have "heavier" rounds for AR and SG. I thought about the PRO optic but just don't want to spend that kind of $ right now. What you want is ammo with bullets designed for hunting larger game like deer or for civillian law enforcement. My recommendation and what I use is 62 grain Barnes TSX. It is monithic hollow point copper. It rapidly expands to twice its caliber and retains 100% of its weight while being able to penetrate deeply and break bone. I use it for deer hunting with "dead right there" effectiveness. Another good choice is Speer Gold Dot bonded 64 grain LE ammo. No varmint bullets for me for HD. The shotgun has Flite Control 00B. |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 9:03:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Have you considered reinforcing the wall in front of your kids?
There are plenty of ways to do that. AR500 steel plates, although that would be expensive and heavy. Personally, I would use sand bags inside the wall. Open up the wall with a box knife or coping saw. Put a narrow wooden table-like support down first to just below the top of the kids mattresses, and sand bags stacked another 2 feet above that. Got to keep the weight down so you don't damage your foundation. Then reapply drywall, mud, tape, and paint. Kids are now safe unless you happen to shoot through a stud in between sandbags. |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 4:06:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Backup ammo for the AR is 75gr OTM Hornady, Winchester PDX slug and buck Defender load in side sadlle on the SG. I also have 62gr green tip IMI for the AR in several mags for "hard" targets (PMAG's color coded). I agree 100% that the heavy OTM bullets are more terminally effective BUT the V-Max tends to fragment quickly when it hits things, be they soft or hard. I doubt it will exit a human in one piece either frankly and should break up rapidly in common wall materials.
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Posted: 4/15/2017 4:34:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Backup ammo for the AR is 75gr OTM Hornady, Winchester PDX slug and buck Defender load in side sadlle on the SG. I also have 62gr green tip IMI for the AR in several mags for "hard" targets (PMAG's color coded). I agree 100% that the heavy OTM bullets are more terminally effective BUT the V-Max tends to fragment quickly when it hits things, be they soft or hard. I doubt it will exit a human in one piece either frankly and should break up rapidly in common wall materials. You want rapid expansion, deep penetration, no fragmentation, bone breaking capability and an exit wound. You want the same terminal ballistics performance as you would expect from a premium big game bullet. |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 7:01:45 PM EDT
[#20]
reliability
a light short-maneuverability flash suppression open sights |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:32:22 PM EDT
[#21]
for an HD gun
a good magazine and good ammo that is all. how big is your house  exactly
at the distances of an average 3000sq ft home a bayonet is more useful than a sling.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 5:53:14 AM EDT
[#22]
I love my ARs. But they are not my go to indoors.
2 shotguns/handgun here. 870 in 20 ga and 1100 in 12 ga. Both wear lights and the 20 is small and nimble. If transitioning outdoors, there is an AR close enough. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 7:04:48 AM EDT
[#23]
FWIW,on my "go-to" self defense carbine I viewed the "must-have" features as this:
#1 reliability....while all my AR's are reliable, I actually put one of my highest round count ones into this role, because I KNOW it works 100% of the time, in any condition. #2 A good light #3 A good red dot with auto on feature and long battery life, just in case my wife or daughters have to use it. They know how to shoot, but it's much easier for them to "put dot on bad guy and shoot" rather than worry about sight picture, etc. The "always on" and or auto on feature was important because I don't need/want me or them to be fumbling with a dial/buttons. #4 A good, and simple 2 point sling |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 4:40:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe having a sling is important in a home defence rifle. It keeps the rifle attached to you so it can't be taken away. If you were to trip and fall, your rifle could go flying where you don't want it to go. Iron sights with a good white light is all that's needed. You have to remember if you have to engage a threat in your house, it will be 25ft or less more than likely. point and shoot distance. my.02 |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 4:50:32 AM EDT
[#25]
good advice in this thread, the one thing I have learned and try to pass along is back stop and you must have a light on any hd firearm
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Posted: 4/26/2017 4:50:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 870 Tactical (w light/no sling) is on MY side of the bed LOL. She's petite so I wanted a low-recoil long gun she can handle effectively on very short notice w/o struggling to power up a RDS. Chambering the gun and activating the light may be all she has time for unfortunately. I did just run across Blitzkreig's replacement front sight pins and may go with one since they're cheap and seem to stand out pretty good. Thanks Guys ! |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 4:54:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love my ARs. But they are not my go to indoors. 2 shotguns/handgun here. 870 in 20 ga and 1100 in 12 ga. Both wear lights and the 20 is small and nimble. If transitioning outdoors, there is an AR close enough. |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 6:10:14 AM EDT
[#28]
short barrel
iron sights white light sling 
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Posted: 4/30/2017 12:11:20 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you're going to change long guns in the middle of a home/property intruder situation? I'm sure as hell not wanting to trade shots outside in my shorts with 8 rounds. And it will take dire consequences for me to end up outdoors. Indoors, middle of the night , wtf duties are shotgun/pistol work for me though. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 12:15:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If transitioning outdoors, yeah if possible. I have accessible ARs near exit points. I'm sure as hell not wanting to trade shots outside in my shorts with 8 rounds. And it will take dire consequences for me to end up outdoors. Indoors, middle of the night , wtf duties are shotgun/pistol work for me though. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 12:22:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You put loaded weapons near the entrances where someone could get at them? |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 12:24:11 AM EDT
[#32]
a bayonet.
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Posted: 4/30/2017 12:29:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a bayonet. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 12:33:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
short barrel iron sights white light sling https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/5205/IMG-0620-174578.jpg |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 6:33:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW,on my "go-to" self defense carbine I viewed the "must-have" features as this: #1 reliability....while all my AR's are reliable, I actually put one of my highest round count ones into this role, because I KNOW it works 100% of the time, in any condition. #2 A good light #3 A good red dot with auto on feature and long battery life, just in case my wife or daughters have to use it. They know how to shoot, but it's much easier for them to "put dot on bad guy and shoot" rather than worry about sight picture, etc. The "always on" and or auto on feature was important because I don't need/want me or them to be fumbling with a dial/buttons. #4 A good, and simple 2 point sling Light, RDS, 2pt sling |
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Posted: 5/1/2017 8:22:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep- Light, RDS, 2pt sling |
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Posted: 5/19/2017 4:40:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Light and red dot.
Gtg. |
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Posted: 5/21/2017 12:07:30 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW,on my "go-to" self defense carbine I viewed the "must-have" features as this: #1 reliability....while all my AR's are reliable, I actually put one of my highest round count ones into this role, because I KNOW it works 100% of the time, in any condition. #2 A good light #3 A good red dot with auto on feature and long battery life, just in case my wife or daughters have to use it. They know how to shoot, but it's much easier for them to "put dot on bad guy and shoot" rather than worry about sight picture, etc. The "always on" and or auto on feature was important because I don't need/want me or them to be fumbling with a dial/buttons. #4 A good, and simple 2 point sling |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 12:35:14 AM EDT
[#39]
You're gonna go deaf if you have to squeeze off a 223 in your living room. Griffin recce 5 mod 3 was the quietest 223 suppressor last time I checked.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:57:28 PM EDT
[#40]
My must haves for a HD rifle.
Reliable, you must shoot this gun a lot. Feed it all types of ammo and make sure it functions 100% of the time. Last thing you want is a firearm that will not go bang when you really need it to. At least 5 loaded mags with the ammo you choose for HD. Ammo. A rifle makes a poor club, its not combat effective without ammo. Optional add ons that some say you must have. Good red dot optic, helps getting on target faster. Weapon mounted light for night threats. Im on the fence on a light. 1 it gives away your position 2 you need to train with for it to be truely effective in a combat situation 3 if you turn it off and on your eyes will never adjust to eith the light or dark. A sling. A must have for a SHTF/ combat/ duty rifle but a sling can get cautgh on things inside the home like door knobs ect when you least expect it. My ARs have never been HD weapons. In the home I reach for a pistol. If I need to defend my home from outside threats or leave the house in a SHTF scenario thats what the ARs are for. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:17:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My must haves for a HD rifle. ... At least 5 loaded mags with the ammo you choose for HD. I don't think I've heard of a home defense situation in America where the homeowner used even 20 rounds. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:48:42 AM EDT
[#42]
Better to have and not need than need and not have imo. As I said my HD weapon is a pistol not an AR, at least against a break in type situation. SHTF mob or Korean invasion all those loaded mags will co e in handy.
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Posted: 7/1/2017 11:34:26 PM EDT
[#43]
It's been said already:
Red dot (Aimpoint micro- turn it on, leave it on, changer battery every other year.) Sling (light only if you train with it) Any one that has had CQB training can tell you about not being familiar with washout and effectively hitting that switch on just for a second to see a snapshot of the room. |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 7:19:58 AM EDT
[#44]
a bayonet
 iS your HD PLAN DIFFERENT FROM MINE
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Posted: 7/4/2017 9:15:21 AM EDT
[#45]
I disagree with your decision to not mount a RDS or sling.
If she needs to learn shooting fundamentals (iron sights) that's cool...but you shouldn't issue her a defensive firearm until that's completed. Train your bride on the rifle, then mount a RDS, retrain, and then issue the gun to her. Your family will be safer this way. Slings are needed on all rifles. It's not a handgun she can stuff in a robe pocket. Don't want my "tone" to be read as lecturing or condescending. |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 9:22:23 AM EDT
[#46]
Regarding what is needed for a KISS HD Carbine...
I read your intent as "LIGHTWEIGHT KISS"... RDS...Aimpoint T1 BUIS...Troy rear left in the "down" position 2 PT Sling...Vickers or similar WML...Something with momentary and full "on" like a Surefire M300 with click tail cap. This will make your wife's rifle well rounded and fully capable. Most important thing to buy is ammo and range time. Giving her a KAC SR15 with a TNVC Gen3 NOD is no different than handing a child car keys. Again, I don't want to sound like I'm preaching or being an arse. I've been married a long time and know the commitment it takes from BOTH PARTIES to train a spouse to defend herself. |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 9:25:11 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been said already: Red dot (Aimpoint micro- turn it on, leave it on, changer battery every other year.) Sling (light only if you train with it) Any one that has had CQB training can tell you about not being familiar with washout and effectively hitting that switch on just for a second to see a snapshot of the room. You have to run dry drills to learn how to move, and live drills to learn how to operate the system. E.g. Most people don't realize they'll wash their RDS dot if they use their standard setting with a WML indoors (unless you're one of those weirdos that ramps the dot to nuclear bright for some reason). |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 9:26:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tritium sights are not visible after the first shot due to muzzle flash and not visible at all if you activate the weapon light. I have them on my Glock and recognize the limitation. Get a small lightweight duty grade red dot like Leupold Deltapoint Pro mini reflex, Trijicon MRO or Aimpoint micro. |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 9:29:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love my ARs. But they are not my go to indoors. 2 shotguns/handgun here. 870 in 20 ga and 1100 in 12 ga. Both wear lights and the 20 is small and nimble. If transitioning outdoors, there is an AR close enough. Handguns for me are just the means to get back to my rifle. Rifle first. Rifle always. |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 9:32:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're gonna go deaf if you have to squeeze off a 223 in your living room. Griffin recce 5 mod 3 was the quietest 223 suppressor last time I checked. |
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