ETA:3/22/22
I’m Back

All links fixed.

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Intro

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Prone

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Sitting

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Kneeling

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Standing

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Follow Through and Dry Fire Practice

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Twists and Zeros

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- What The Hell Is MOA?

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- How To Zero Your AR15

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Last Step Before and After Hitting the Range

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- Do Not Chase Your Zero

Basic Rifle Marksmanship (BRM) Series- MOA Theory vs. Reality



IFAK- Can You Save Your Own Life? Not BRM but a must have to keep on hand if you are out at the range.

The Range Bag

Origins of the 1 MOA Challenge





MAJOR ETA:

With AR15.com's site update this post has been killed. I updated the prone link and I think that triggered the max picture per post limit and well… All information from this post is in the links above.



Sorry, not my fault


The IP is work and Copyright of BillyDoubleU/AZRifleman.com

Tag

awesome hopefully people see this and it helps them out.  I can't believe how many new people just think that can plop down and start slinging rounds.

Tack?

I turn my body at more of an angle to the target when shooting prone raised leg. You need about 15-20 deg from straight behind the rifle. it'll help form the pocket and deal with recoil. Your body kind of rolls and returns vs the straight line recoil of the v prone position.  I'm more comfortable shooting from this position than straight behind the rifle. I was also taught to lay your foot on your calf if you cross you leg not the back of your knee. The ole man says while your concentrating on shooting long strings the foot going to sleep isn't a good thing.  Ive never been comfortable shooting with both legs straight out. I also shoot kneeling and standing "bladed" to the target, when I learned, that was the accepted stance. The whole squared up position isn't comfortable and my accuracy suffers.

Edit I sounded like an ass, not how I meant to come off.

Cool post.  Thanks for sharing.  There's always something to learn or that detail we overlook.

Cheers!

Very good tutorial brother, and the more pics the better, the tutorials without em are borderline useless.

I give this thread an A+ and a request for a tack tho, very well done and the fundamentals are overlooked these days. Too many guys worried about throwing Tapco this and NcStar that on their brand new rig before even knowing how to correctly use it.

A mother fucking plus.

Nice review for me and I learned a couple things. Two things to note about standing position:

1) The bladed stance is more natural, but squaring your shoulders and feet is better if you need to shoot and move. We did a lot of moving/shooting in training, and were always taught to keep square. You never want to cross your legs; keeping them squared prevents you from getting tripped up.

2) In the last two pictures he is chicken winging the trigger arm. There are two reasons I can think of to keep that shoulder down. First, if your hiding behind a barrier, you don't want your elbow sticking out. Second, if moving indoors, especially doorways, there's no elbow room. Again, it may be more natural, but it's a bad habit that should be trained out.

Great post op! +1 on getting this tacked

A LOT of work and effort went into that!

VERY good!!!!!!

Good job.



Two things I'd like to point out:



1) Use that sling, it's more than just something to hang your rifle over your shoulder with. Stability increases dramatically when using a sling.



2) I always use/taught the empty lung breathing technique, it's more consistent/natural than the half full, 3/4 full respiratory pause.

Tack it!!!!!!!  

Good points and totally acceptable. A lot of our foundations come from the time frame we learn too. The Prone with the leg crossed is just a general starting point. From their the shooter learns how high or how low works best for them.

1.)  remember, this is just a very basic tutorial focusing on accuracy. Being squared off is a great method and takes full advantage of body armor in a more fast paced environment. Just like the "Magpul" straight arm gun driving. Which I use with good success in close in shooting durning a competition setting. But I'd place that method more to the advanced side of things and not so much on basic fundamentals of accuracy.

2.) same goes for the chicken wing. If we re read the description that arm is their to find the balance. How hi or low the elbow is is dictated by the shooters balance and body. I know I covered the kneeling and the barricade for obvious reasons. To me, if you are gonna kneel for a accuracy at distance, just sit down if you can't go prone. The height difference between sitting and kneeling isn't very much and sitting will be a more solid position anyway. When I'm working a barrier I have my elbow down. If I'm trying to hit a steel plate at 200 yards standing, my elbow is out.  

1.) agreed, I was hoping someone with more experience could tackle proper use of slings. Sling use could almost get a whole new thread lol!

2.) agreed, I added the others just so new shooters could see that their is more then 1 way to do things though the lungs empty is preferred.

Thanks

And thank Nick and Tweeter, they got this ball rolling in here.

Not applicable to all situations and not a focus of your tutorial, but learning to include your sling within the positions is beneficial as well.  You are not going to sling up like you are at a High Power match out in the field but learning all the fundamentals cant hurt.

 

great stuff Billy, guys this forum is getting interesting, thank Nick, Tweet and AK and of course Billly.

I remember a while back there was a run down of the appleseed shoots and what you would want to know and appleseed covers sling threory for one style pretty well.  There are a bunch of slings out there now and several of them are built specific to shooting well in certain ways.

Again this is a great write up.  There are more uses for squaring off with your targets for some uses.  Body armor is a good one but when it comes to speed vs accuracy rolling into your rifle can allow you to get more shots onto a target at the cost of some precision.  

I have seen body position as a two way street.  You have the stability part where the rifle is on a great mount to be able to take a very good shot.  Then there is a control part where your body is able to be back in the glass to see that shot hitting or be in a position standing or moving to put many shots into something riding the recoil throughout.  A person cannot generally stand 'bladed' to his target and fire while moving and he can also generally not fire a string of shots quickly.  When it comes to shooting at people a bladed stance or having your feet offset from the recoil line in your body is a bad thing.  For some types of accuracy shooting like the different high power disciplines it may very well pay off but I don't shoot high power nor do I have a place close by that I could so someone else would be better suited to talk about that.

Tag...

Favorited.

One thing though, I don't point my fingers toward the muzzle when standing. I make a "u" with my thumb and fingers and cradle the forend in that, works better if I need to transition quickly from one distant target to another.

It's also more natural in this position when employing a hasty sling.

Agreed on all accounts.

When I shoot multigun it's typically squared off straight arm and leaning into and drilling close range targets as fast as I can. Usually anywhere from 10 yards to 50 yards. I'll lay a few more rounds into it to ensure enough "A" zone hits but I'm focusing on as good a balance of speed vs accuracy as I can. This is usually pretty much equal to the distance and size of the target. The further out the more care I take to make that first shot a hit. And that will dictate the stance or if a certain position is required that may alone dictate how I approach it. But that all of course comes from experience.

But all of that was built off the basics.

Everyone sees Magpul or CSAT etc and wants to shoot just like them but they forget that they all learned like this. Either from their dads or the military.

Good post tack it up

Wow...great post. Basic stuff but I learned (and relearned) a lot. A couple questions if you don't mind. I'm new to this...

1. Prone/supported: I've tried this to some extent, and when shooting a pistol grip equipped rifle as opposed to a "Fudd gun," laying directly behind the rifle is a painful contortion to get my usual grip with the shooting hand. It just doesn't work. If I kinda "sit on my elbows" with my upper body up higher and don't use a support then it's ok, but seems to be poor technique. I have to lay about 15-20° off of the rifle and modify my grip to make it work at all; something of a thumb and trigger finger only grip.

2. Prone: How important is it to get the feet flat? I'm very flexible, but my left heel is always slightly off the ground when I shoot, and I do have toes pointed out. Instructors hate it, but unless I muscle my foot down it just doesn't work.


And a final note that my help someone: I can tell when I've really dialed in a good solid prone position when I can clearly see my heartbeat in the rifle sights. Drives me nuts but it's a good problem to have I guess.

very important. for me the less body parts able to move the better my shooting foundation is.



 

For those like myself who are no longer able to assume the standard positions due to physical limitations there are also the NRA Adaptive Shooting Positions. These are primarily for competition but should also be kept in mind for use in the field where applicable.

 

Great tutorial my friend. My brother and I are both new to shooting AR-15 and this writeup will be a great benefit for us. So, thank you very much for taking the time to doing step-by-step with photos. As they say...Billy, you Da man!

Mike

A quick question...you mentioned couple off times about 10 second window while breathing properly. Can you expand on that a little bit more? TIA

Yep it just more solid. More contact with the ground. What's harder to move, a chest on wheels or a chest without wheels. If you can't do it then you just need to adapt the position to you. But having one heel slightly up isn't a big deal.

Take a breath. Just breath normal. Now at the end of exhalation notice that you don't immediately take another breath. Their is a few second pause. When shooting for accuracy you can simply extend that pause for a bit. You have plenty of oxygen in reserve and the 10 second window is just an approximation of when you CO2 build up is gonna kick your drive for another breath in.

The point of the pause is to reduce as much external influence on your rifle as possible.

What I do when often unless I'm being super serious is line up in whatever position. Get my sights up, make sure I'm tracking up and down with my breathing and wherever my sights line up with the target regardless of how much of a breath I got, hold, pull the trigger, exhale, a breath or two, sights slowly coming back up to my target, lined up, hold breath, pull the trigger. I'll let my breath be what elevates or lowers my sights when everything else is close enough.

If I'm going for the best I can do, then I'll work the position to it's lined up on empty lungs.

That's just a few ways that I do it. I'm sure the other guys have their own tricks that they can expand on as well.

Good write up Billy.  I don't think follow through can be over emphasized, it's often over looked by many.

Nothing I hate more is when I rush a shot and my barrel jumps anywhere but back and slightly up and right back to where is was. When it goes all sideways...

thanks!

I been meaning to look up some proper positioning to tighten my groups,  I will study this and give it a shot.    mainly prone....shooting to find best gn commercial loads for first elk tag

Thanks

Learn to shoot in your natural respiratory pause. I do not hold my breath during the pause (like in the 1st pic). Your body will try to compensate your breathing (ie faster) and can throw you off.

Take good breaths in, slowly exhale until your at your pause, squeeze, fire, follow through, inhale.

You know I don't really like the way it was talked about here because I agree with you.  With my bolt guns and when Im shooting for really groups with no time restraints I always shoot at the natural pause at the exhale and there is no problem with if something is not right in the natural pause to just take another breath and let it happen again.  Pausing longer of course makes it so your brain is thinking about wanting oxygen and can do things to your vision.  

So to a new shooter my advice would be settle in on target finding your natural point of aim in a position and take a few breaths.  Close your eyes and take a few breaths more and ensure you are still on target and not muscling into place.  There is no reason to rush a shot because the reticle is moving or you have to get it in over this breath.  If you are in a proper position the reticle will move slowly on the target and there will be no reason to mash the trigger down to get the shot in time.

Now if you have time restraints a minor unnatural pause can get you good results but not as good as a natural pause.  That is breath out natural pause fire breath in 3/4 pause fire ect.  There is no reason to be doing this unless you have a time sensitive target though as you will find your groups open up a whole bunch.  

Remember that air in your body acts like laying on top of a beach ball or something similar.  You will move around and if in the prone this can be bad.  Other positions though it will not have as much play like the seated or standing position and it simply takes some learning to figure out who you can expect from your rifle when you cut these corners while doing everything else right.

No.  Talk about it.

This series of threads should just be made from going to archive. Like Nick said before, tacked threaded usually get ignored. I think as long as they stay current and out of archive then they will continue to be added too and discussed. Maybe down the line they can be formed into a large Tacked all in one thread. But I agree, tacking is cool and all but they do often get over looked.

Fucking agreed.  

No need to rush anything... if you're not in a rush.


I like to get into a position and then just rest behind the gun.  Then I'll check my natural point of aim, and then start watching my breathing and heart rate.

After that, I just try to time my breathing with my natural respiratory pause and then line that up with my sight picture.

Then I'll start on the trigger.


A note on your respiratory pause and your heart rate:  Your breathing creates a pattern on your target, it'll be different for everyone.

Mine?  it typically looks like a slightly lopsided vertical figure eight.  I'm right handed, so it makes that figure turn counter-clock-wise slightly.  It straightens back up a bit when I'm on a bipod or a rest though.
This is your breathing "wobble".

Now your heart rate creates little jumps in the wobble.  You also have to account for this in your natural point of aim.

I try to time my trigger squeeze, breathing, and heart rate so that the shot breaks at the same place on that "wobble" every single time.

If I'm off?  I rest on the trigger.  I let it go.  

Then I start over.

 

Awesome standing position.

My thumb can't bend backwards any further, so it's a great piece of real estate to use for support.  
It's just uncomfortable.

Still, one of my favorite ways to find support for standing.

I completely forgot about that. I tried it a time or two but that was it. I'll have to give it another try.

Always worth a watch as virtually all of it transfers to the AR-15.  Two separate videos at the link.
https://archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1
 

tag!

I tried really hard to get used to holding at the base of the magazine, or using the back of my hand... but there was too much forward flex in my wrist, variation on the back of my hand, and the magazine shifted in the magazine well.  Resting the hand guard at the base of my support hand pulled my forearm forward too much and reduced support..

No, hooking my thumb is the most comfortable and consistent method for me.  Between the index finger and the pinky is my second-favorite.

Ok, that make sense. We do have that natural pause at the end of exhale. Interesting enough, now that I read it I can feel it or notice it, but before I knew about but didn't think about. Thanks again buddy!

Thanks for the link winddummy82. Awesome clips!


I want to thank you all as there invaluable information here, especially for a new shooter like myself. I have emailed a link to this thread to several friends that are new shooters. So, keep up the good work y'all

Since the thumb has a pulse does it have a noticeable effect?

Short answer? it depends.

There is always a noticeable effect, but let me explain:

We're gonna do a little audience participation here, please bear with me.

Sit down at a desk (you're probably at a desk or table right now anyway) and we're gonna simulate two positions, standing and prone.

We're gonna need a plastic cup or tumbler, something nearby that can closely match the diameter of your handguards.   A thick magic marker or the spine of a book will do if you have nothing else.

Let's go over the basic hand position first.  

Go ahead and rest your support elbow on the desk and turn your support hand to face your body.
Let your whole hand totally rest, your thumb should form a shape like a "J" off the side of your hand.  Go ahead and make sure you don't have any coffee in your coffee cup before you do this next step.

Take your stand-in "hand guard" object (coffee travel tumbler in my case) and press it downward to simulate the weight of your rifle.  You're trying to make it feel like the weight of your rifle.

I want you to pay attention to where it rests on your thumb.  It will most likely be naturally resting the majority of your "rifle "weight" in that space between your first and second knuckles on your thumb.

Note: If you're interested in how to enhance this effect in the prone with a sling, check out Highpower/CMP prone positions on youtube, it's illuminating stuff for new shooters.

Anyway, that pulse you were worried about?... it resides primarily in the base of your thumb, closer to the heel of your palm.  We simply move the handgaurd to a location where it's less likely to be effected by the pulse, away from muscles.

Try it again without your elbow supported, see what changes.

Here's something else you can do without your elbow supported.

Keeping your hand in the same position as before (make that "J") I want you to bend your hand (palm facing you, remember?) back towards your body.
Your wrist will naturally reach a point where it can no longer bend.  It simply wasn't meant to move that far.  Use it.

Wanna try it standing now?  Awesome, let's do it.

Keep your hand in that same idiot-savant position and just stand up.  "Well shit, where do I put my elbow at now?"

Psst, gently tip your upper body rearward and simply lay your support tricep across your chest.  Now turn your whole body (not just your upper body) to face your target.

If you have your rifle handy, go ahead and clear it and try it with an empty weapon.  Your wife, girlfriend, kids, dog will think you're a retard, but it's actually pretty good practice for building a good position.

I know what you're thinking, "why did he mention the prone position if I'm standing?"

Here's why: because you can use the same technique prone.  In fact, you probably should.  At least give it a try.

Most shooters use the drill sergeant instructed  "lay it across the top of your palm and hold the front hand guard".

I wouldn't.  Your forward support hand should be completely relaxed.  It reduces the amount of pulse felt through the rifle.  


Muscular action demands blood flow, that leads to muscular fatigue, which leads to inconsistent pressures.  Your muscles weaken and adjust in a position, your bones do not.

Whenever possible: Just use your muscles to move your bones into position to support the weapon in a firing position.

Besides this, your grasp of the front of the weapon is not humanly consistent, so let's go ahead and decrease that grasping action and make things more consistent.


As far as mitigating the pulse in your thumb goes, it's the same as your normal pulse, it's nothing special.  The only difference is that your thumb's pulse is in your thumb... in the end it doesn't matter unless you're operating past a normal plateau of performance.  
I could continue on that line of thought, but then I'd start talking about nearing diminishing returns in performance.  I'm trying to keep this in context since this is the beginner sub-forum.  

The very small pulse in a thumb? a beginning shooter is probably not going to feel that in a position unless they're almost asleep on the gun.


Back on track.

I'm more worried about my total pulse, my felt heart rate translated through my weapon and noticed in my sights.  No fancy tricks I can think of except to increase structural contact and decrease muscular contact. roll the weapon towards those two knuckles on your thumb.  
It's probably not going to get there perfectly, but it will probably help mitigate (but probably not totally eliminate) felt pulse in your support hand.

This action will also have a great side-effect of relaxing your hand.  With an extended thumb it's difficult to involuntarily grasp the weapon during the natural jump in free recoil of the weapon.

If you have any questions please ask.  I hope this helps you.