So I've had the idea for a while to do a budget build 20" for a while. I was going to go for a budget build, and use this rifle mainly for just cheap target practice and casual plinking. What I wanted was pretty much your standard A2 clone but with an A4 carry handle. I'm torn because I was intending to virtually use irons only. The main advantage for the A4 handle for me is that it lends the rifle to be a bit more versatile in any sort of SHTF situation, and personally I like all my military style rifles, AR's AK's, HK-Clones, FAL's or whatever, to be well suited to the task. I'm sure the A2 could hold its own more than most seem to give it credit for.

So these are my questions for you A2 owners;
1) What led you to the A2?
2) What is your favorite thing about owning an A2?
3) How does the A2 stack up against other AR's in your collection, and how does it fit in?

I've been thinking about it and I think I'm about to take the plunge.
Lookin' forward to joining the club - MP223

What you are really talking about building is an A3 with a carrying handle. You are right, it does lend itself as to being a more versatile platform should you ever decide to add a scope or some sort of optic to it. These can be built on a budget.

Myself, I have many AR15s (33 of them) and I am I the process building two more (retros). I recently built an A2 as a replacement for one I built and ended up selling a few years ago. I still need to build another A3 to replace another one I had built and ended up selling as well. I was brought up old school and I like iron sights which explains my love for the retro ARs. I qualified with a M16A1 when I was in the Marine Corps back in the late '70s to early '80s. I eventually got my hands on a M16A2 in the late '90s when I was in the Air Force Reserve. There is nothing like being proficient with iron sights.

For a budget minded build, check with PSA for "blem" lowers on sale. I used one of their Stealth lowers for my A2 build. You can often find their blems for around $50. A2 furniture (pistol grips, handguards, and stocks can be bought from Rock River Arms. A proper 20" A2 gov't profile barrel can be bought from Windham Weaponry. They are fantastic barrels. Bolt carrier groups, charging handles, Delta ring assemblies and lower parts kits can usually be sourced from a variety of vendors including PSA.

Here is the A2 I recently built.












Good luck with your decision.

I like A2's for the nostalgia, and they look great!!
Adding optics is always a trade off, as it's just not as easy as an A3

If you have a soft spot for them, by all means get one.
I think every AR guy needs at least 3 AR's :)
A1, A2, and an A3.
(or at least 3 uppers on a common lower)

Each one 'tells a story' and with so many variations, you have
a lot to choose from.  

The A1/A2 held their own for decades.  They're simple, accurate, and have a subtle retro appeal - can't go wrong.  My first AR was an A2, and it was/is one of my very favorites to this day.  If you like them, get one.

Other than my M231-clone - my M16A2 clone is arguably the least useful of all the ARs I own in a purely practical sense.  

However, when I find myself grabbing rifles for the range, more often than not, the A2 comes with me before many more "modern" builds, though it plays second fiddle to my "go to" rifle.  

The A2 is usually what I introduce new shooters on - I like the balance even more than my XM16E1 clone, she's a smooth shooter, and still a traditional "rifleman's rifle."  

While on the one hand, I feels that it hearkens to a more obsolete paradigm of combat weapons - I like to train in "cycles," going from basic marksmanship to "full-up run and gun" - and the A2 is one of my favorites for basic marksmanship training.  

My A2 clone is built with all quality parts - it wouldn't be anywhere near the first rifle I would grab in a pinch - but it's still capable if need be, and unlike the XM16E1 clone - can fire all of my heavier "duty" or "SD" ammunition, and can be suppressed with my Gemtech HALO if need be.  

While I'm a strong believer in RDS, modern optics, lights, IR and NV, etc. - and my "go to" and duty rifles don't even have BUIS anymore - I learned to fight in truest sense with an M16A2, and while it would no longer be my choice - could do it again if I needed to.  

Do it.  

This:




Does make me love this any less:




~Augee

With all the tarted up AR platforms that appear to be all the rage these days, you can't beat the simple elegance and functionality of an A2.

Ideally you would build both/multiple configurations. If that's not practical for you then build an A4 with a detachable carry handle/A2 sight. While it may not be an exact A2 with the carry handle attached, it's a best of both worlds compromise.

Just do it, you won't regret it. I fell in love with the A2 late in life, as a young sergeant whose only AR experience had been a M4A1. It was love at first sight, and I have built many rifles of different barrel lengths with an A2 receiver. Down to just one now, and is one of the most accurate rifles I have.

Even if you decide later on to switch to an A4, you'll only have to swap the upper. Just build it and appreciate the basics

...and an icicle that makes a 20" A2 look like a little bitch.  

I'll let the picture do the talking

S/F

I'm going to build an A2, but only because it's "my" service rifle, much like a VN guy may want an A1.

Hard to quantify, but easy to like.   Never got super excited about the A1 version, and that's even after owning an SP1 back in the late '70s.   Found out about the A2 in the early '80s, and got curious about the features, and the good looks.  The longer butt, the enhanced rear sight, and especially the round handies got me anxious to peak up her skirt.  The only thing I wasn't nuts about was the swamped barrel, and even that objection largely went away with the appreciation of her fine balance. Yeah, Alpha Deuce is quite the lady.   And why not?  She's the product improved A1, with twenty years of mil. service to help sort things out.  Today's civvie shooters have an advantage over the militaty here, we can use better triggers, instead of that shakey three round mechanizm.    I have a harum full of twenties, cuz they are the best, but the 'Deuce takes the cake, even over the newer A Quad.   this is at least partially so because the new model cries out for all sorts of extra gingerbread, and that just wouldn't do on the A2.  A scope and mount is as far as the toys go with this young lady.   She's got history too...BHD, and Jarhead to name a few !

And to ad to my earlier post, everyone and their mother's brother's cousins son has an AR nowadays. Most just go to the gun store, without having ever researched or fired an AR and get whatever the "gun expert" (I use that term loosely, I had one try to tell me every accessory he sales the military issues on their ARs as well; didn't know the Army bought utg products busted his bubble when I told him I was a former unit armorer against my will).

Everyone in their mother has a flat top AR, be different. Plus when a lot of us who grew up watching action movies of the 80s and 90s, the A2 was in alot of them. Its kind of nostalgic in a way. Plus it will reach out and hit plates at 500 meters with the right person behind the trigger.

I never handled an A2 till I was fixing to ETS out of the Army. I had been my unit armorer during deployment along with other duties and when my unit got disbanded (4/2 SBCT) we had to turn in all of our equipment. After the armorer who replaced me got fired and I was forced to fix all his mistakes and turn in equipment was when I first handled an A2. My unit had around 10 just for ceremonies and whatever reasons. I would take one out and hold it every day, loved those rifles. My assistant armorer (he was from 1st Armor) had carried one in Iraq and had the same love for it as I did. As it got closer to me getting out, I built a clone just to have one. Even had a set of KAC rails on it, but I eventually took them off and sold.

My advice, build one. You won't regret it, and it will soon make your list of a favorite rifle to shoot. I need to get off here before I raid the EE looking for A2 uppers

I have two of them set up as hand out weapons in case of an alien attack. They are so cheap to build with all the upper receiver sales.

The A2 cannot compete with my variable equipped rifle, and as anyone's eyes age... The irons will be less ideal as the eye has a harder time focusing on them.

Freaking great rifle to have as a backup. Long service life, launches 55 grain ammo at a high enough velocity to use as defensive ammo and take all the advantage of the fragmentation you can get from M193 and nothing will fall off the basic rifle. Its all pinned in place.

I have had a detachable carry handle wiggle loose during a shooting event. Won't happen with the A2. Throw on a micro acog and the A2 would be a good general purpose rifle.

Nostalgia aside, an A4 with an LMT fixed A2 BUIS and an EOtech 512 or better and you've got a proper height, A2 rear sight with windage and elevation adjustments, and a holo-sight that co-witnesses perfectly with that A2 sight. I have this set-up on my PA-10 .308 and it's the perfect blend of traditional and modern.  

Mike is right. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to do this for one reason or another. I use to have representations of the M16A1, M16A2, M16A3, and M16A4, as well as the M4 and M4A1. I sold the A2 and A3 I had several years ago to friends that wanted one. I regret doing that. It left a big gap in my AR collection. Of recent, I did build another A2 and one day, I will build another A3. This will fill the void in my collection. I am currently working on building a XM16E1 and another M16A1 (mid-'70s). These will be added to my retro collection. I still think that the A2 build should be done, but it has to suit your needs.

What was the difference between the A2 and A3 in semi automatic (or, if you're talking about the ECP version - between the A3 and A4)?

~Augee

A2 - A2 upper receiver, 1/7 Gov't profile barrel, round hanguards

My A2


A3 - A3 upper receiver, detachable carrying handle, 1/7 Gov't profile barrel, round hanguards


A4 - A3 upper receiver, detachable carrying handle (or Trijicon ACOG TA31RCO-A4, Aimpoint Comp M2, or other military issued optic), 1/7 Gov't profile barrel, KAC M5 RAS

My A4



In the real world, the M16A3 can fire on full-automatic (like the M16A1), whereas the M16A4 has 3-round burst (like the M16A2). They can be equipped the same. In the civilian world, I separate the A3 and A4 as I denoted in the above descriptions. The A3 I had, and will build again, was exactly like I described above.

Sounds good!  

I was just curious as to how you made the distinction, because as you pointed out - in the military sense, the M16A3 is either just an M16A2 or M16A4, depending on production time that has an S-1-F FCG, instead of an S-1-3.  

~Augee

At least some of the A3 family were built with A2 uppers...the photos appearing in BR2... Both Colt And FN did the deed.  

Yep. For use military types, we know the nomenclatures and the designations of the various M16s. We know the differences between the M16A1, M16A2, M16A3, and M16A4. Not all the time was the differences just according to the uppers they had. The fire control group had a lot to do with it as well.

In the civilian world (semi-automatic), there is essentially the A1 (old school upper with fixed carrying handle with windage adjustable rear sight, triangular handguards, 1/12 pencil barrel, A1 buttstock), A2 (upper with fixed carrying handle with windage/elevation adjustable rear sight, round handguards, 1/7 Gov't profile barrel, A2 buttstock), A3 (flat-top receiver, with or without detachable carrying handle, round handguards, 1/7 Gov't profile barrel, A2 buttstock), and A4 (flat-top receiver, with or without detachable carrying handle, with or without KAC or MaTech BUIS, KAC M5 RAS, 1/7 Gov't profile barrel, A2 buttstock). The term "A2" has become pretty much generic when it comes to describing an A2 AR. Many associate the upper to designate what constitutes being an A2. We find that there are several different buttstocks and handguards being used on A2 builds these days. Personally, I prefer the military looking version. To me, that is a real A2.

I've shot a lot of different set ups and to me a 20" A2 is the.... I don't know, funnest, feels the best.  It is a bit hard to quantify, but I like it better than the rest.   The fit of it, the feel while firing.  And they even look good.  The lack of modern day stuff.  I like that.  But I don't use a black rifle for anything serious.  

During the late 80's to mid 90's, the term "A3" was thrown around all over the place, with meanings changing depending on who was doing the discussing - for example: one group saying it merely represented the flat-top forging itself (which in a sense, is true in that the flat-top forging is known in the manufacturing industry as an "A3" upper), while the military used the term simply to describe an A2 rifle equipped with a full-auto fire-control assembly rather than the standard burst version. This is why in military marksmanship manuals the A3 is always grouped with the A2 rather than the A4 (ie: M16A2/A3 rather than M16A3/A4) & the A3 is always listed as having an 800 meter max sight distance, rather than the flat-top's 600 meters. The term M16A4 originally denoted a weapon having a flattop upper receiver & the A2's round hand guards, which after being replaced by the Kac M5 Ras - the weapon was then know as an M16A4 MWS (modular-weapon-system). Currently - the M5 Ras has become standardized with the M16A4, and the A2 hand guards are being phased out.

As for the A2 & the OP's original topic:

Like many of the others here - I too was inducted into the military & "trained-up" on an M16A2, & can certainly vouch for both the cost-effectiveness & nostalgia aspect, though in my opinion - the A4 will always be a much more versatile weapon, which for me carries it's own sense of nostalgia now that I'm no longer having to drag it around with me on a daily basis.

In a day-time, open-air environment, the A2 is a practical, relatively light-weight & easy to-use weapon... short of that though, it's a matter of diminishing returns in terms of practicality, versatility, & ease of use...

On another note though, A2 parts will only become more rare as time goes by, so perhaps you should pick one up ...while the picking's still good.

I started with my first M16 being a colt SP1 slick side upper and lower for a M16a1.  I liked it, but the day I was handed that brand spanking new M16a2 in the plastic, I was in love.  My scores never dropped below 40/40 on quals.  However they did go as high as 46/40 a couple times (long story lol)  The accuracy was great, but the 3 shot burst SUCKED when clearing a room (frag out).  I carried the M16a2 for most of my time in service and loved it.  So for me it was to bring back the memory of what I carried when I was in the Army.  However I never kept any of my civ AR15a2 more than a few months.  I picked up an FN a2 upper a while back that was stripped and in great shape but not cosmectically.  So I decided to do a full build.  After the build and on probably my second range trip with the new rifle.  I realized that the one part I forgot to use was the a2 upper (doh).  So now Im in the slow process of building a new a2 project gun.  It will not be a 20" but a 16" tribute to my first civ AR which was a Colt Car-15 with that awesome 5.5" flash cage that slipped over the barrel to make it look like it had a 10.5" barrel instead of the 16".

I like having irons for average range use or in combat.  Less to fail, and very reliable.

well I'm just popping back in here after a while and damn this thread took off! I came in at about 5 replies and got caught up in work, just checked it again. Here's a few things y'all have made me take in to account since before writing this post.

- Collectible Value
Hearing you veterans that posted talking about the A2 really made me think about how in addition to all else the rifle is good for, it is a piece of US military history as well. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday in the future I'm sure these rifles will be looked at with nostalgia, much like we look at the Garand today. Keep in mind I said someday... lol. I plan on keeping my guns all my life, I'm sure it would be very interesting to grandkids way down the road, and by then it might be a little more "old school"
- A3 Config.
I hadn't ran this through my mind simply because I didn't know much about what an A3 was. I know now it was pretty much exactly the style that I wanted to build. After seeing so much love for the A2 I'm kinda feeling like if I do it I should do it "all the way" so to speak. I really stared thinking about an A2 or A3 for the bare bones, irons and fundamentals sense of it all anyway. Bottom line, the detach carry handle would be more practical for a defensive rifle. I was going mainly for a budget target/training rifle. almost all of y'all acknowledge this and say if you need a defensive rifle, I grab ____. While it would be nice to be able to do both, I have other rifles for that too.
- "Hand Out" Rifle
mike_nds coined this term in the tread, but it was something I'd been considering from the start. the build would be budget oriented and not something I'd miss if it came down to it. It's nice and simple so maybe someone that isn't trained the best, or just isn't pre-disposed to guns, could use and maybe feel a little bit more confident with.
- Another AR in the safe.
I like variety and I consider myself a collector at heart. I have even have to watch myself to stay on the practical side when it's called for. I feel like I can have both with this rifle. An AR is an AR, the most popular semi auto mag fed civilian rifle in America, and almost completely interchangeable with it's military brother as well. "Practical" no matter how you slice it. An A2 has the cool, and has what you need and nothing more, should the day come that you need it.

In short, I'm doing it. Y'all won, I'm joining the club. I'm about to order a few lowers and one of them will become an A2. I want to thank you guys for the responses and advice! I've never had a thread like this on arfcom. I was shocked when I checked today.  Special thanks to the vets for your personal accounts of the real deal M16A2! I will start another thread and keep you guys posted when the parts come in.

-MP223