I'm coming to the end of one of my builds, and it has been quite a fun build.  This will have been my 4th build completed with an A2 upper within the past 4 months, but I've only got to keep 2 (first one to help pay for the transfer fees associated with moving apartments for a bigger one for my fiance and her fat cat; second to help pay for U-Hual truck and other stuff to get her down here; she can't say I don't love her).  My fiance was so amazed I actually sold an AR so she and the fat cat can live comfortable, she even bought some of the following for me and since she helped buy parts technically now it's an family heirloom and can't be sold

The specs for the build are as follows:
-Bushmaster A2 upper ($70 shipped off EE)
-PSA Afghanistan blem lower ($59 bucks shipped, $25 transfer fee). Figured it was a good deal, would commemorate my time there, and some of the proceeds went to Wounded Warriors
-BCM 16" F FSB barrel ($130 shipped off EE)
-KAC carbine rail ($40 shipped off EE)
-B5 buttstock ($50 shipped off EE)
-PSA buttstock tube assy ($36 shipped off EE)
-ALG combat trigger ($55 shipped off EE)
-BADASS safety selector ($50 shipped off EE)
-BADASS take down pins
-Seekins Precision billet magazine release ($6 from Brownells)
-MagPul FDE K-grip ($15 shipped off EE)
-MagPul FDE RVG ($15 shipped off EE)
-Other associated parts needed to complete build ($30)

Total build costs thus far $601. Granted I know that's alot for an A2 carbine, but considering this might be my last build for awhile (that is unless I get a good deal on an A1 upper, been jonesing to build an A1 KISS carbine) figured I'd try some new things on this build (ie ALG trigger); already have the BADASS components on another build and like them.  Plus this lower/upper combo is tight (tried with some standard take-down pins and was super hard to open).  Still need to get a BCG, but debating which one to get.  I'll be posting pictures of the build later on (still waiting on some parts to arrive that I bought from Brownells and off the EE).  

The rifle will be kryloned, mainly because the upper does have alot of wear marks on it and alot of the parts don't already match on the rifle.  Pus with the lower being a PSA Afghan lower, I figured it be a great inside joke to the guys I deployed with. We were suppose to have our rifles sent off to be professionally painted/cerakoted but then instead we got told we were going to have to Krylone paint them.  Instead of Krylone we got regular old tan/green/black spray paint from supply.  Lasted maybe a trip out of the arms room before we deployed before the paint started really wearing off.  Some guys got ahold of spray paint once we got to Afghanistan that had Russian markings on it, wish I could find that stuff again cause you couldn't get that to come off for nothing.

I'm wanting to mount an AimPoint optic on this rifle, since I missed them from my days in the Army.  I've been considering several different mounting options as of late.  Here is what I've been thinking about:
-AimPoint mounted using an Arms #2 mount (already have mount)
-AimPoint mounted using an Arms #16 mount (already have mount)
-AimPoint mounted forward on the KAC rails

Just trying to see if anyone could provide pictures and insight into the different mounting options I'm considering.  I've never handled one with any of the options, but worried about how high the optic would be sitting up.  But would the zero hold mounted on the KAC?  

Any and all opinions would be greatly appreciated.

I would suggest a gooseneck, do you already have the optic chosen?

There are several kinds that I know of.  PRI, BC and aimpoint.

I have a Colt M4 with an A2 upper and my Aimpoint CompML2 sits in an ARMS #16A M68 carry handle mount and I love it. I don't have a picture handy but I'll find one of the mount.


Here is a few pics from their website.

http://www.mountsplus.com/AR-15_Accessories/AR-15_Scope_Rings/ARMS-16A.html

I dunno. I was in the same boat as you when I put my 723 together, trying to decide how to put an optic on the carry handle without it being a mile up.

Originally I was going to put an Aimpoint Pro in a #16 ARMS mount, but after mocking it up with a piece of picatinny rail bolted through the top of the handguard, I dismissed that as a viable option.

Then I got a Micro RDS & a KZ dedicated micro mount and put that up there.

It dropped the optic quite a bit; it still straddles the line between a cheek/chin weld, but it's MUCH lower than any 30mm tube optic would be.

Pic related.


Pre-paint and CAR stock.

I have a gooseneck mount that I considered using, but then saw a picture of one with the optic mounted forward on the rails and considered that.  Definitely going to go with an AimPoint on this build

I've already got my Arms #16 mount mocked up, like the look but haven't gotten the AimPoint optic I want.  Just been keeping an eye on the EE to see what I can find

I have a goose neck from the PIF I never used if you want it.

IMHO, "gooseneck" mounts are the absolute last-choice option for mounting an optic to a fixed carry handle.  

The vibration of the cantilevered sight on (usually) a single screw on a hole in the carrying handle means that the mount will invariably loosen over time, likely at the worst possible moment.  Additional clamps and additions that try to add mount mounting points are marginally better, but still suffer from this - the optic is still a relatively heavy weight on the end of a cantilevered mount, and vibration will transfer.  

Mounting an optic or rail to a carry handle will eliminate the cantilever, and mitigate the effects.  

I've never found the optic height to be that much of a problem for a shorter range rifle/carbine, though it may introduce some zeroing/battlesight issues because of height over bore.  Magnified optics, it might be worth having a riser, but with RDS, I don't particularly feel the need for a riser, either, and actually very much like the "heads up" firing position.  

Mounting an optic to a free floating railed handguard is also a very much workable solution, and less ideal, but still quite effective is a solid drop in, non-FF handguard, e.g. the KAC RAS, however, I don't necessarily like the "business" of having the iron sights in the sight picture, though it's not a huge issue.  

~Augee

thanks Augee, I keep leaning more and more towards mounting it forward on the KAC rails.  But considering I have ever mounting option possible, going to try them all and see which I like

I assume since this is a commemorative build that the rail is the Army standard KAC M4 RAS. If so that is not a free float rail. I was told not to mount sights on it. I'm sure it would work, just not sure how well it would maintain zero. I have a CompM4 gooseneck sitting around going to waste if you want it.

The KAC RAS has an adjustable clamp that fixes it to the front handguard retainer, and the back end that engages the delta ring is tapered so theoretically there is no movement of the rail other than what the barrel harmonics allow. For red-dot distances this has been combat-proven to be effective, though at long ranges this might pose some zero issues.

"Ideally" you would only mount zeroed items, e.g. optics, IR lasers, to free floating handguards, however, outside the theoretical - M68CCOs, EOTechs, and IR LAMs have long since been used to great effect on non-FF KAC RAS specifically.  

In fact, there is some evidence to suggest that the extreme flex experienced by long, rifle length FF rails induces more POI shift than the relatively short and rigid carbine length RAS when IR LAMs are mounted to the extreme front (though I've never experienced this personally, however, I'm also not a "slinged up" High Power shooter).  This tends to be solved by mounting the lasers further towards the receiver on the FF rail.  

In terms of placing an Aimpoint on a non-FF rail, I would assume that even for weight/balance reasons alone, you would be placing it pretty close to the receiver anyways, and it would not be an issue.  

As another poster has mentioned, the KAC RAS uses a "claw" that actually locks in fairly solidly with the barrel nut, as well as a leaf spring on the front end, and an anti-rotation interface with the barrel nut which makes the RAS quite a bit more "solid" than most "drop-in" non-FF rails.

Moreover, the RAS is actually the second generation rail system - KAC's original system was known as the "RIS," Rail Interface System, and used by SOCOM for many years (and some are still in service today) - however, when the Army decided to adopt a rail system for their "MWS," Modular Weapon System, they determined that they wanted an even more solid lockup than the RIS to ensure IR lasers would remain zeroed, hence the "RAS," Rail Adapter System was born.  

The 7" carbine, or "M4" versions therefore came in both RIS and RAS versions.  

The 12" rifle length, or M5 version was only ever released in a RAS version.  

~Augee

I've never done it, and my only comment would be for shorter range I doubt it would make much of a difference.  Now if I was trying to shoot at 500 yards with it like that, I might be skeptical.  But even then I don't know for sure if it's an issue or not.  

But you asked for pics, so...

As promised, pictures.  Still waiting on some parts (Brownells forgot to put my magazine catch in the box, and still haven't got my bolt catch assemble from a member off the EE), and then will still have to purchase my BCG and CH but that will be after I get my taxes back.  

I'm currently trying to trade my black B5 buttstock for a coyote tan one (have an ad listed in the EE).  Also thinking about trying to put an age lock to my lower to match the upper.  

Anyways, here is some pictures  (couldn't get them to rotate, sorry about that)
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That's torture!!!  LOL.    

Nice carbine.

What are your impressions of the Kley-Zion / Botach dedicated micro mount?  What I'm mainly interested in is how snug the mount is in the carry handle channel, whether it has a "see through" base so that you could use your iron sights if you wanted, and thoughts as to how well it stays put and your general sense about how rugged the product is.  I'm putting together a 727-ish carbine (A2 upper receiver) and I want to use my Aimpoint Micro.  Right now I have it mocked up with a ARMS #2 carry handle rail and a no-name low micro mount.  It seems quite solid (I'll switch out the no-name low mount soon), but I'd be interested in a smaller, lighter mounting solution if there's a viable one available.
Thanks.

Well, in my carry handle it was very snug, even before it got painted. It does have the see-through base, too, so you can still use your irons. As far as ruggedness goes, I haven't had any problems with it, but then again I haven't taken it off the rifle and tried to drive nails with it or anything either.

For what I paid for it, I'm perfectly happy with it, and I like it much better than a fullsize Aimpoint when it's way up there like that.