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Holy crap Rick, I just noticed something about your third pic. Are those rings somehow attached through the bottom of that arms mount? I have that exact mount. I've never seen that done before. I forgot that there were even holes in it. Or did you drill it . My head is exploding.. whaaaaaat? http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv7743%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DXROQDF%3E2828%3B33764248ot1lsi http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp54%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DXROQDF%3E23237%3C867%3B2%3C3ot1lsi I still think a compact ACOG would be really nice atop my A2. A little more sleek and light. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No must have an optic. Ok boss. http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Ricky_a_photos/DSC00187.jpg http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Ricky_a_photos/IMG_2165.jpg http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Ricky_a_photos/IMG_4083.jpg Holy crap Rick, I just noticed something about your third pic. Are those rings somehow attached through the bottom of that arms mount? I have that exact mount. I've never seen that done before. I forgot that there were even holes in it. Or did you drill it . My head is exploding.. whaaaaaat? http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv7743%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DXROQDF%3E2828%3B33764248ot1lsi http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp54%3Dot%3E2326%3D483%3D343%3DXROQDF%3E23237%3C867%3B2%3C3ot1lsi I still think a compact ACOG would be really nice atop my A2. A little more sleek and light. Yes, they are. It's a set of Valdada rings for NATO STANAG mounts. I got fed up with the looks of standard rings over the carry handle. Optic comes on/off easily and with an adjustable cheek piece it takes only seconds to go iron sight shooting. |
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Quoted: Yes, they are. It's a set of Valdada rings for NATO STANAG mounts. I got fed up with the looks of standard rings over the carry handle.
Optic comes on/off easily and with an adjustable cheek piece it takes only seconds to go iron sight shooting. http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Ricky_a_photos/IMG_4571_zpse76b4f31.jpg View Quote How well does that FABulous stock lock up to the receiver extension? Is it pretty tight, or is there a lot of wobble? I tried the LaRue cheekpiece, but it was 1/4" too high for the BUIS on Uncle's M4. |
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No, a 20" A2 would not be ok as my only rifle. Just too big for me (5'8" 140 lbs).
Mine just sat in the safe, I'd always grab the 12.5" A2 pistol or 16" M4. I've since replaced the 20" barrel with a 16" middy and will be using that for our training this weekend. My last ditch effort to find some love for that gun. |
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No, a 20" A2 would not be ok as my only rifle. Just too big for me (5'8" 140 lbs). Mine just sat in the safe, I'd always grab the 12.5" A2 pistol or 16" M4. I've since replaced the 20" barrel with a 16" middy and will be using that for our training this weekend. My last ditch effort to find some love for that gun. View Quote I have three 16" A2 Mid-Lengths. Two fixed stocks (Magpul Fixed Carbine and a Cav MFG A1) and one Magpul CTR. Sorry everyone, I'm not a 20" fan either. Have LW barrels on them and perfect KISS config IMO. Good Luck with your training. me |
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How well does that FABulous stock lock up to the receiver extension? Is it pretty tight, or is there a lot of wobble? I tried the LaRue cheekpiece, but it was 1/4" too high for the BUIS on Uncle's M4. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Yes, they are. It's a set of Valdada rings for NATO STANAG mounts. I got fed up with the looks of standard rings over the carry handle.
Optic comes on/off easily and with an adjustable cheek piece it takes only seconds to go iron sight shooting. http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Ricky_a_photos/IMG_4571_zpse76b4f31.jpg How well does that FABulous stock lock up to the receiver extension? Is it pretty tight, or is there a lot of wobble? I tried the LaRue cheekpiece, but it was 1/4" too high for the BUIS on Uncle's M4. That's a commercial tube with a mil spec length. Those with mil spec tubes complain about wobble with that stock and those with commercials complaint that it's too tight. I'd rather have it too tight. After some use it's got a little bit of movement, but it's much better than most. I'm contemplating going to an A1 stock with a riser. It's a 10.5 lb rifle and only I use it, anyway. I miss a simple, solid stock, and the associated buffer system. |
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No, a 20" A2 would not be ok as my only rifle. Just too big for me (5'8" 140 lbs). View Quote I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight. "Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. |
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My eyes suck but that doesn't stop me from using an A2 in competition to 600 y...I figure that's what they make glasses for. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Flat top with a carry handle & irons would be fine. A-2 is also good if you only plan to use irons... But a scope or red dot would be preferable... Put an ACOG on the A2. I find that solution to be near perfection. I agree. I don't think optics are "just a fad." 20 years ago I might have thought so, but my eyes don't work as good as they used to and now I pretty much need some "optical" assistance except under perfect lighting conditions. Even then the optics help. That said, if I still had 20/20 at all distances I'd be more than OK with an A2 as my only AR. My eyes suck but that doesn't stop me from using an A2 in competition to 600 y...I figure that's what they make glasses for. I'm sure it works well on a mowed range with targets several feet wide. |
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I'm sure it works well on a mowed range with targets several feet wide. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Flat top with a carry handle & irons would be fine. A-2 is also good if you only plan to use irons... But a scope or red dot would be preferable... Put an ACOG on the A2. I find that solution to be near perfection. I agree. I don't think optics are "just a fad." 20 years ago I might have thought so, but my eyes don't work as good as they used to and now I pretty much need some "optical" assistance except under perfect lighting conditions. Even then the optics help. That said, if I still had 20/20 at all distances I'd be more than OK with an A2 as my only AR. My eyes suck but that doesn't stop me from using an A2 in competition to 600 y...I figure that's what they make glasses for. I'm sure it works well on a mowed range with targets several feet wide. As a long time aperture sight shooter I would disagree. Iron sights have more uses than the KD range. Every sighting device has pros/cons and limitations. No matter what the fad of the year is in optics, the shooter is the biggest variable. I have much more respect for the shooter practicing iron sight shooting and shooting well, over the guy that thinks they've bought enough capability for their gun. |
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Quoted: I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight.
"Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. View Quote Guess who I see regularly w/ M16A2s while deployed? It's like a conspiracy. |
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Guess who I see regularly w/ M16A2s while deployed? It's like a conspiracy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight.
"Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. Guess who I see regularly w/ M16A2s while deployed? It's like a conspiracy. The original idea of a strengthened A1 stock ("C1" IIRC) or A2 as options seems like it would have been a great idea if implemented. All my long guns use a ~13.5" LOP so it being a little long with the gear on wasn't as big a deal as people make it out to be. Everything wears a collapsible these days, and swapping out a fixed stock, if needed is no big deal. The "A5" buffer system seems ideal for that. |
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Yes, my A2 AR 15 would be my lead firearm with my Colt Scope close by.
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I know, why do they have to cost so much money? Grrrrrrrrr.....
But yes, it's a beautiful rifle you got there. |
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A well trained shooter can shoot quickly and accurately with an A2. It works great. I'd argue it is the pinnacle of practical iron sight technology. There are a number of reasons many here had bad experiences with the A2.
1) The A2 stock. It is too long if you're less than 6'0'' tall. I am that height, and while I can use both, I prefer to use A1 stocks. That 5/8ths of an inch difference doesn't seem like much, but it is huge. 2) The barrel is too long. I never really thought it felt long, but I grew up using it. It is roughly the same length as a 20'' cylinder bore shotgun, which has been a favorite for police and home defense use from the mid 20th century to roughly 10 years ago. 3) It is too heavy. The majority of commercial A2 rifles had an HBAR profile barrel which makes it front heavy. If you add a light, it is even more front heavy. 4) Optics. Mounting optics to the carry handle is a pain in the neck. It's hard to get good cheek weld without a stock adapter. For iron sights use only with a light weight flashlight and a shorter stock, the A2 rifle is a very accurate and well balanced rifle. It has the accuracy to shoot well to beyond 600 yards. An experienced shooter can shoot it quickly and accurately. Do optics work better? Yes. But irons still work. |
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I'm not as tall as you and I feel like an A2 stock is fine, as long as I'm not wearing a ton of clothes. It is the most comfy to me. An A1 is in the same category too though. Just fine. I have kind of a long neck and if it gets much closer than that, I'm crowding the receiver, especially if prone or leaning forward a good amount. But if I was wearing armor, forget it. I can see why all those guys want a collapsible.
I also agree that I think the A2 sights are the finest iron sighting system out there. Although I've never messed with the HK's twisting sight, which I hear is good too. Also, the weight of a Govt' might aid in easier shooting. It isn't that much more anyways. And if you don't have it loaded down with a ton of stuff.... but yeah most carbines are lighter. Plus the rifle gas system seems really soft compared to the others. Although a middy might be just as soft. |
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Quoted: I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight. "Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: No, a 20" A2 would not be ok as my only rifle. Just too big for me (5'8" 140 lbs). I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight. "Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. Human arm length is proportional to height. Those who are shorter have shorter arms, and have to exert more force to neutralize the natural downward torque of the rifle. "What you've seen" does not justify general conclusions. I'm 5'10" and don't care too much for swinging a 20" barrel either |
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Human arm length is proportional to height. Those who are shorter have shorter arms, and have to exert more force to neutralize the natural downward torque of the rifle. "What you've seen" does not justify general conclusions. I'm 5'10" and don't care too much for swinging a 20" barrel either View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No, a 20" A2 would not be ok as my only rifle. Just too big for me (5'8" 140 lbs). I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight. "Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. Human arm length is proportional to height. Those who are shorter have shorter arms, and have to exert more force to neutralize the natural downward torque of the rifle. "What you've seen" does not justify general conclusions. I'm 5'10" and don't care too much for swinging a 20" barrel either I'm not trying to be contrary or rude, but some of that makes no sense to me. First, a 20" A2 with a govt' barrel has less muzzle climb and felt recoil than even an HBAR carbine. In my experience. So you're already exerting less force during recoil. Secondly, for me, when you start getting much shorter than an A2 or A1 stock, my right wrists start to get to an uncomfortable angle, getting more towards 90 degrees. And then some of the strength I use in my right arm for pulling the rifle into my shoulder falls off and just feels all wrong. I realize you can have a collapsible stock out to those lengths, but for the sake or your argument it appears you are saying shorter is better for shorter people. Which I'm sure there is some truth too. I do see what you're saying about a shorter barrel maybe feeling better while swinging from one target to the next, and not overshooting, but that's all relative. I'm not sure it makes a whole heck of a lot of difference to me. Seems like that would be a very subjective thing about what weight would feel just right in that case. But one last things, people come in all different shapes and sizes. Yes, typically shorter people have shorter arms. But there are variables. Like I have bigger feet than my brother in law. He's 6'-2" and I'm 5'-8". Some people have long arms and legs for their bodies and fingers. Etc. There are a lot of variables in genetics and shapes of people. |
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I'm not trying to be contrary or rude, but some of that makes no sense to me. First, a 20" A2 with a govt' barrel has less muzzle climb and felt recoil than even an HBAR carbine. In my experience. So you're already exerting less force during recoil. Secondly, for me, when you start getting much shorter than an A2 or A1 stock, my right wrists start to get to an uncomfortable angle, getting more towards 90 degrees. And then some of the strength I use in my right arm for pulling the rifle into my shoulder falls off and just feels all wrong. I realize you can have a collapsible stock out to those lengths, but for the sake or your argument it appears you are saying shorter is better for shorter people. Which I'm sure there is some truth too. I do see what you're saying about a shorter barrel maybe feeling better while swinging from one target to the next, and not overshooting, but that's all relative. I'm not sure it makes a whole heck of a lot of difference to me. Seems like that would be a very subjective thing about what weight would feel just right in that case. But one last things, people come in all different shapes and sizes. Yes, typically shorter people have shorter arms. But there are variables. Like I have bigger feet than my brother in law. He's 6'-2" and I'm 5'-8". Some people have long arms and legs for their bodies and fingers. Etc. There are a lot of variables in genetics and shapes of people. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No, a 20" A2 would not be ok as my only rifle. Just too big for me (5'8" 140 lbs). I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight. "Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. Human arm length is proportional to height. Those who are shorter have shorter arms, and have to exert more force to neutralize the natural downward torque of the rifle. "What you've seen" does not justify general conclusions. I'm 5'10" and don't care too much for swinging a 20" barrel either I'm not trying to be contrary or rude, but some of that makes no sense to me. First, a 20" A2 with a govt' barrel has less muzzle climb and felt recoil than even an HBAR carbine. In my experience. So you're already exerting less force during recoil. Secondly, for me, when you start getting much shorter than an A2 or A1 stock, my right wrists start to get to an uncomfortable angle, getting more towards 90 degrees. And then some of the strength I use in my right arm for pulling the rifle into my shoulder falls off and just feels all wrong. I realize you can have a collapsible stock out to those lengths, but for the sake or your argument it appears you are saying shorter is better for shorter people. Which I'm sure there is some truth too. I do see what you're saying about a shorter barrel maybe feeling better while swinging from one target to the next, and not overshooting, but that's all relative. I'm not sure it makes a whole heck of a lot of difference to me. Seems like that would be a very subjective thing about what weight would feel just right in that case. But one last things, people come in all different shapes and sizes. Yes, typically shorter people have shorter arms. But there are variables. Like I have bigger feet than my brother in law. He's 6'-2" and I'm 5'-8". Some people have long arms and legs for their bodies and fingers. Etc. There are a lot of variables in genetics and shapes of people. That and if you actually measure, the A2 stock length of pull is the same or shorter than most any rifle or shotgun save for youth models. From my own experience, those 20" were only a little cramped in some aircraft and vehicles. "Swing?" That's a matter of weight and balance, not length. In the end, it's all preference and what you're used to. I like A2 sights and a longer sight radius. The rest is easy to make what you want of it. It doesn't have to be 20" and an A2 stock. That was my point above when I said: If that's too long there's plenty of other options. |
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Human arm length is proportional to height. Those who are shorter have shorter arms, and have to exert more force to neutralize the natural downward torque of the rifle. "What you've seen" does not justify general conclusions. I'm 5'10" and don't care too much for swinging a 20" barrel either View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No, a 20" A2 would not be ok as my only rifle. Just too big for me (5'8" 140 lbs). I don't see what bearing barrel length has on "fit" in regards to a person's physical size and weight. "Too big for me" is just not in my vocabulary. An A2 stock works fine for anyone but petite females from what I've seen, or those with lbv's and ballistic vests. If that's too long there's plenty of other options. Human arm length is proportional to height. Those who are shorter have shorter arms, and have to exert more force to neutralize the natural downward torque of the rifle. "What you've seen" does not justify general conclusions. I'm 5'10" and don't care too much for swinging a 20" barrel either I have to say my personal experience in the Marine Corps bears out what Rick said about the A2 being a pretty much universal 'fit' for all but the smallest framed people. I will also admit that I been told I have crazy long arms and legs with a short torso. That said, I wasn't a grunt, and I wasn't in the field wearing 782 gear and a flack jacket everywhere. But I have used an A2 with with all that gear, and pretty much every guy in my platoon at SOI had no problem but the one guy who was like 5'2", but I think even an A1 style stock would have been an issue for him. I will never be without a 20" A2 style AR. |
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Very nice!!!
Must be an HBAR because my 20" govt weighs a bit less than that. I too prefer the A2 butt plate. The A1's slide off your shoulder too easily, IMHO. |
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I need to get a new pic of it with the A1 Type "E" Stock on it. I was sorta wrong about the weight, it weigh's in at 7 lbs. 10 oz. with a 20rd MagPul mag in it, and with the sling attached. While it is put up I usually keep the sling off. I do have a Lan-Cay M-9 Bayonet that fits it perfectly, but that bayonet adds soo much weight out front, that I'd never shoot it with it attached. But it is one hell of a good blade to keep around, especially since it's all matching, including the Scabbard. |
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That weight loaded makes sense. I don't even know what mine is loaded with a 20 rounder. But it's a hair over 7.5 unloaded.
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A loaded 20 round mag weighs around 12 - 13 ounces. A loaded 30 rounder is around a 1lbs.
I like your rifle, 1navy. I think the 16" mid length A2 with a fixed stock is one of the best KISS general purpose ARs you can have. The only thing I wouldn't want is the F marked FSB. With my close nose to the charging handle hold, I always end up having to adjust the front post down more than average as it is to be on target. An F marked FSB with a fixed carry handle upper exasperates that problem even more and I have to lower the post so low to get on target that it becomes very difficult and slow to line up the sights. |
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My first was an HBAR A2 Dissipator from J&T with MOE furniture. Solid shooter.
My HD, however is now a 12" A3 pistol with irons and a holo dot. You know these things multiply, right? |
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The only AR I own is a A2. But I did replace the hand guards with triangle guards, changed to A1 pistol grip and waiting on my tri-prong flash hider.
That is how it will stay till I die, and I won't own a second one, no need. Also I put GI issue sling on it and GI bi pod.
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If it was all I had then yes, the M16A2E3 was the first rifle I qualified on in the Navy. I own a A2 Carbine and a 20" rifle and I can make hits pretty decent. I know eyes go with age so I would have to eventually have to use an ACOG or other low power optic on the handle.
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I like your rifle, 1navy. I think the 16" mid length A2 with a fixed stock is one of the best KISS general purpose ARs you can have. The only thing I wouldn't want is the F marked FSB. With my close nose to the charging handle hold, I always end up having to adjust the front post down more than average as it is to be on target. An F marked FSB with a fixed carry handle upper exasperates that problem even more and I have to lower the post so low to get on target that it becomes very difficult and slow to line up the sights. View Quote Blain, Thanks for the Compliment. As far as the Front Sight Post is considered, I used a RRA NM Front Post and filed 1mm (0.039") off of it to keep it the proper height. When I reinstalled the Front Sight Post, And brought it's base to about level with the FSB, I was just a couple of clicks away from it being perfectly Zeroed. Also, I replaced the Standard Rear Windage Knob, for an RRA A2 1/2" Windage Knob. It gives me just a little bit more room then the Standard Windage Knob. |
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Yup! The 16" Middie A2 / fixed butt is a near perfect weapon. I have to ask, Navy Chief, whose hand guards are on your piece? I currently use Cav. Arms M4 size on mine, but they are a bit too big, IMHO.
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jaygee, These are the handguards that came with the Upper from PSA. They are not as fat as the M4 style Mid-Length, and not as skinny as the Skinny CavArms Mid-Length Tapered ones. I really don't know what manufacturer these are, sorry I couldn't help. But I will say that they are very comfortable to shoot with. And this FN A2 Carbine/Rifle, with it's CHF barrel, is capable of some very fine accuracy, as long as I do my part too. |
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