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Posted: 9/3/2014 3:28:58 PM EDT
[#1]
So what does it mean that an early A2 upper came from the factory with M4 ramps? To me, that means it was intended to be used with the M4 barrel, which early on was the only one using such ramps. I think Augee's explanation makes the most sense of anything I've heard.
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Posted: 9/3/2014 3:30:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes, M4A1 lowers are marked as such.
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Posted: 9/3/2014 3:41:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, b/c how do you prove that that upper shipped w/ that lower? We can infer that early M4s shipped from Colt w/ fixed carry handles, but absent some documentation from Colt or from the receiving unit, we're not proving it. Say greased lightning strikes me, & I take command of a NG company that has early M4s in the arms room. Some of these carbines have fixed carry handles. I take pics of each & every one of them, and we oooh & aww over them. Without documentation that those guns shipped that way, we have nothing other than Colt M4 marked lowers w/ carry handle uppers that were installed @ some point in their 20+ year service life. Proof is going to take documentation, or pics from back in the day of complete carbines w/ M4 rollmarks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: On paper it looks like a smoking gun for there having been a carry handle m4. Of course if someone could produce one with detailed pics, maybe that would seal it. :) No, b/c how do you prove that that upper shipped w/ that lower? We can infer that early M4s shipped from Colt w/ fixed carry handles, but absent some documentation from Colt or from the receiving unit, we're not proving it. Say greased lightning strikes me, & I take command of a NG company that has early M4s in the arms room. Some of these carbines have fixed carry handles. I take pics of each & every one of them, and we oooh & aww over them. Without documentation that those guns shipped that way, we have nothing other than Colt M4 marked lowers w/ carry handle uppers that were installed @ some point in their 20+ year service life. Proof is going to take documentation, or pics from back in the day of complete carbines w/ M4 rollmarks. If you could find more than one with very early serial numbers and otherwise correct parts and matching forging marks on the uppers and FSBs, 93 or 94 date codes on the barrels, and otherwise generally indicating that they matched, I might be willing to call that a "preponderance of evidence." 
There are also these guys: 
(guy in the background on the right) 
(first guy in the stack) Both weapons have obviously had their stocks changed and KAC RAS installed - but at the same time, based on the basis of issue of the M4 Carbine (S-1-3) in '93-'94'-95, I could see both 3rd ACR and 2nd ID getting some of the first examples ("premiere" mechanized units) - probably somewhere in their HHCs for a BC/SCO's driver.
Then again - they could be COTS M16A2s - hard to tell from either of those photos - though the 3rd ACR photo in particular (DCUs), when you zoom in, I think you could make a reasonable argument for a 7xx series barrel, possibly a lock ring (versus castle nut), and maybe even an A1 profile lower. ~Augee |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 10:40:09 PM EDT
[#4]
http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw-10.html
1994: August: AMCCOM awards a $369,600 contract to Colt related to the M16.
The US Army officially adopts the M4 and M4A1 Carbines. Only the first lot of M4 will be delivered with fixed carrying handles. Afterwards, all M4/M4A1 in inventory will be shipped with flat-top upper receivers. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 2:43:45 AM EDT
[#5]
http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw-14.html
February, 2004 NSWC-Crane issues a sole-source solicitation to Colt for 15 M4A1 without carrying handle, 15 M4A1 with carrying handle, and 6 M4A1 with barrel and front sight assembly installed. Presumably these are removable carry handles on 2004 M4A1s - but why does Naval Special Warfare want M4A1s w/ removable carry handles? For M203 quadrant sights? |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 10:41:17 PM EDT
[#6]
NSWC = Naval Surface Warfare Center. Located in Crane Indiana and responsible for small arms in both the Navy and USMC. When I was active, all units had to send a quarterly inventory to NSWC, (i.e. the Crane report).
ETA: Wikipedeia reports Naval Special Warfare Command (also NSWC) is based in Coronado. Leave it to the Navy to have two commands with the same acronym. 
OK, going back to lurking mode. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 11:11:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw-14.html February, 2004 Presumably these are removable carry handles on 2004 M4A1s - but why does Naval Special Warfare want M4A1s w/ removable carry handles? For M203 quadrant sights? Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw-14.html February, 2004 NSWC-Crane issues a sole-source solicitation to Colt for 15 M4A1 without carrying handle, 15 M4A1 with carrying handle, and 6 M4A1 with barrel and front sight assembly installed. Presumably these are removable carry handles on 2004 M4A1s - but why does Naval Special Warfare want M4A1s w/ removable carry handles? For M203 quadrant sights? That probably means the detachable carry handle. That is no longer "standard" on new M4A1s through the system. As for why, maybe to cut down into BUIS, which used to be the name of the game when the BUIS were still in short supply. Nobody uses the M203 carry handle sights anyways. I don't even know if they fit. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 1:38:26 PM EDT
[#8]
USGI, can I ask this; what unit were you in back then? Maybe you had said earlier, but I forget. Are you a Ranger? And if so what battalion?
Also, I know it's been said before, but now I forget. What year did the waffle M4 stock come out and the double heat shield hanguards? Was that later in the 2000's... Like 2006? I forget now. I might be way off base with that though. ETA: Ft. Bragg is Airborne though, eh? Well, hopefully it was OK to ask. Also, the previous page you said you saw "CT" elements of SF with 1911's. What does that stand for? And did you see mostly M9's with your unit? Do you remember how those 1911's were fitted? Run of the mil GI stuff, or beavertails, longer triggers, etc etc. Just curious. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 1:52:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
USGI, can I ask this; what unit were you in back then? Maybe you had said earlier, but I forget. Are you a Ranger? And if so what battalion? Also, I know it's been said before, but now I forget. What year did the waffle M4 stock come out and the double heat shield hanguards? Was that later in the 2000's... Like 2006? I forget now. I might be way off base with that though. I think the waffle stock came out in 2002, as for the handguards I have no idea. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 3:48:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Sort of off topic....but
Was there ever a triple heat shield M4 hand guard? |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 9:45:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sort of off topic....but Was there ever a triple heat shield M4 hand guard? Was there ever any kind of triple heat shield hand guards? I never got that into the hand guard variations but i do have a set of single heat shield m4 hand guards so ill believe anything is possible |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 1:20:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sort of off topic....but Was there ever a triple heat shield M4 hand guard? I have never heard of or seen any. There are single and double heatshield M4 handguards. Of course, the 727s used the single heatshield CAR handguards. |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 1:54:17 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 10/12/2014 5:56:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/curtismattingly/media/20141011_203627_zps8491374d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/curtismattingly/20141011_203627_zps8491374d.jpg</a> 
Very nice. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 2:49:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/curtismattingly/media/20141011_203627_zps8491374d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/curtismattingly/20141011_203627_zps8491374d.jpg</a> Looks good. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 10:48:53 PM EDT
[#16]
The Specs on the above 727 clone are as follows: American Spirit Arms A2 Upper, Butt stock and Hand Guards Alaska Illusive Arms lower with PSA Lower receiver parts PSA 14.7 CHF M4 Barrel Assembly Flash Hider was pinned and welded by ADCO firearms I took it out shooting for the first time about 3 weeks ago, and to tell you the truth out of all 7 of my ARs this one feels the best..I hope to have more in depth accuracy results in the near future! |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 2:11:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
USGI, can I ask this; what unit were you in back then? Maybe you had said earlier, but I forget. Are you a Ranger? And if so what battalion? Not a Ranger. My MOS is 25C. I have only been in SOF support, or LRS. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:43:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a Ranger. My MOS is 25C. I have only been in SOF support, or LRS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
USGI, can I ask this; what unit were you in back then? Maybe you had said earlier, but I forget. Are you a Ranger? And if so what battalion? Not a Ranger. My MOS is 25C. I have only been in SOF support, or LRS. I don't know what a 25C is, but thank you for serving. I just was curious as to what you did. I had been researching my Grandpa's service lately (WWII) because he had Ranger Training in Ireland and something sparked that question. I forget what now. Probably something about the base. Benning. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:24:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Nevermind.
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Posted: 11/1/2014 2:06:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Looking at all these 727 clones is killing me...
Started collecting the parts to build an XM4 upper to put in my 6933.. So far I have purchased: FN A2 upper, a 14.5" complete Colt M4 barrel assy and gas tube, a non-N1 Colt fiberlite stock (the N1's go FAST when they pop up), and I'm waiting on a set of Colt carbine handguards, delta ring assy, and sling swivel to arrive next week. I have a flash hider in my spare parts, and a bunch of grips. The only other thing I 'need' is a peel washer, I don't think I'm going to bother with the 2 position buffer tube and nut, as I don't want to break the factory staking on the castle nut. Anyone have an extra peel washer laying around? None of the shops around here carry the small parts like that, and Brownells seems kinda steep for a peel washer, and then the shipping... |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 9:19:27 AM EDT
[#21]
I think i might BUT...if you're not going to SBR it you're going to need to permanently attach an extended A2 to bring that Colt barrel up to 16".See my picture earlier in the thread for reference. My upper is built on an FN upper and a Colt M4 barrel.
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Posted: 11/2/2014 12:55:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think i might BUT...if you're not going to SBR it you're going to need to permanently attach an extended A2 to bring that Colt barrel up to 16".See my picture earlier in the thread for reference. My upper is built on an FN upper and a Colt M4 barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think i might BUT...if you're not going to SBR it you're going to need to permanently attach an extended A2 to bring that Colt barrel up to 16".See my picture earlier in the thread for reference. My upper is built on an FN upper and a Colt M4 barrel. The 6933 is a factory SBR with the 11.5" flat top... I know a bunch of lowers have been removed from the registry over the years, but mine isn't one luckily!! I had planned on buying a factory M16M4 upper from Autoweapons, but they sold the last few they had a couple of weeks before I called them. They told me they originally had around 1100 of these factory uppers. Here is the description: COLT UPPER - M16M4 A2 (RO 720) - COLT FACTORY UPPER - M4 MARKED NEAR DELTA RING ON CARRY HANDLE, DUAL M4 FEED RAMP CUTS, COLT "C" MARKED ON RECEIVER, 14.5", 1/7 TWIST BBL, STANDARD SLING FRONT SLING LOOP (CORRECT FOR THIS EARLY TO MID 1980's VINTAGE UPPER)SIDE SLING, ADAPTER, NOTCHED FOR M203, NEWER STYLE FLASH HIDER, FORWARD ASSIST, SMALLER CARBINE HANDGUARDS (CORRECT FOR THIS EARLY TO MID 1980's VINTAGE UPPER),BAYONET LUG.... FYI: COLT IS NO LONGER PRODUCING FIXED HANDLE UPPERS LET ALONE ONE OF THIS TYPE.... IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO PUT YOUR HIGH DOLLAR TRANSFERABLE M16A2 EARLY M4 CARBINE BACK TO ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION THIS RARE UPPER IS IT.... ONLY A FEW AVAILABLE... WHEN THESE ARE GONE THERE WILL BE NO MORE. Yes, it's a direct cut and paste.. Not yelling at anyone!!! |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 11:30:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Wow, that would've been an amazing score.
Just wanted to make sure you weren't going to accidentally post about breaking NFA on an open forum 
I do have an extra peel washer and responded to your IM. Give me an address and I'll send it out. |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 7:50:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/curtismattingly/media/20141011_203627_zps8491374d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/curtismattingly/20141011_203627_zps8491374d.jpg</a> That is a nice carbine. Nice. |
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Posted: 11/4/2014 3:09:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Ok, I finished the SFQC in late 84' and joined 5th SFGA which was armed with XM16E1s and M16A1s at the time. There were only a few M16 Carbines in the battalion at the time (XM177E1 types). In 87' we turned those in for M16A2s and used to use duct tape and hose clamps to secure 3 cell mag lights below the handguards. Then in 95' got our M4A1s. Remember seeing a few fixed carrying handle M4s with 101st about that time too. When in 1/10 SFGA in Germany in 2000-2003 our Air Force Weather team had GAU-5s what were hodpodged of AR parts from all generations. Back in 5th when in Iraq 04-05' I had several Bushmaster M15A1 Carbines (14.5" 1:9, flat top, FS, S-1-Full) that were assigned to my SCIF for other agency use ( I had to inventory them every month).
When I was a Robin Sage Instructor at Camp MacKall in 06-07' our OPFOR weapons had a mix of M4A1 marked receivers and several M16A2 Carbines with 14.5" bbl, 1:7, A2/FS and full auto. Had one in picture that had A1 upper receiver. Don't know if issued that way or SWC armorer replaced it. Now I'm a SOF contracted armorer who builds Mk18s down range. (carry both a G19 and a 44' Remington Rand 1911A1 frame with a WWI Colt slide) 
CD |
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Posted: 11/4/2014 6:31:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Great post!!!
Early M4's had 1/9 twist barrels?????????????????? Wow. There's a thread in the Armory about that right now. Well, about 1/9 barrels and why are they even made any more. |
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Posted: 11/4/2014 10:11:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Very nice. I really like that. Here's mine:
Before: 
After: 
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Posted: 11/4/2014 10:56:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very nice. I really like that. Here's mine: Before: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5610/15094356033_ca3bca4ba6_c.jpg After: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3940/15528310938_213a0c5939_c.jpg I like the painted version better...but you missed the optic and the light!
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Posted: 11/4/2014 11:03:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great post!!! Early M4's had 1/9 twist barrels?????????????????? Wow. There's a thread in the Armory about that right now. Well, about 1/9 barrels and why are they even made any more. No, M4s have always been spec'd 1:7. The Bushmasters M15A2 Carbines were commercial COTS assigned for other agencies attached to my unit. CD |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 1:16:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Oooops. I skipped right over the part where you said they were bushmaster. Sorry bout that!
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Posted: 11/7/2014 12:21:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I finished the SFQC in late 84' and joined 5th SFGA which was armed with XM16E1s and M16A1s at the time. There were only a few M16 Carbines in the battalion at the time (XM177E1 types). In 87' we turned those in for M16A2s and used to use duct tape and hose clamps to secure 3 cell mag lights below the handguards. Then in 95' got our M4A1s. Remember seeing a few fixed carrying handle M4s with 101st about that time too. When in 1/10 SFGA in Germany in 2000-2003 our Air Force Weather team had GAU-5s what were hodpodged of AR parts from all generations. Back in 5th when in Iraq 04-05' I had several Bushmaster M15A1 Carbines (14.5" 1:9, flat top, FS, S-1-Full) that were assigned to my SCIF for other agency use ( I had to inventory them every month). When I was a Robin Sage Instructor at Camp MacKall in 06-07' our OPFOR weapons had a mix of M4A1 marked receivers and several M16A2 Carbines with 14.5" bbl, 1:7, A2/FS and full auto. Had one in picture that had A1 upper receiver. Don't know if issued that way or SWC armorer replaced it. Now I'm a SOF contracted armorer who builds Mk18s down range. (carry both a G19 and a 44' Remington Rand 1911A1 frame with a WWI Colt slide) http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/M16A2_Carbine.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/M16_carbine_close_up.jpg CD Thanks for sharing CD. If only we had more guys like yourself hanging around the site. Did you have much interaction with the early free float setups when they first came about? (Armalite fiberglass, FF RAS models, etc.)
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Posted: 11/7/2014 1:21:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very nice. I really like that. Here's mine: Before: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5610/15094356033_ca3bca4ba6_c.jpg After: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3940/15528310938_213a0c5939_c.jpg I forgot to say how great a carbine this is. That is sweet. |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 1:42:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for sharing CD. If only we had more guys like yourself hanging around the site. Did you have much interaction with the early free float setups when they first came about? (Armalite fiberglass, FF RAS models, etc.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok, I finished the SFQC in late 84' and joined 5th SFGA which was armed with XM16E1s and M16A1s at the time. There were only a few M16 Carbines in the battalion at the time (XM177E1 types). In 87' we turned those in for M16A2s and used to use duct tape and hose clamps to secure 3 cell mag lights below the handguards. Then in 95' got our M4A1s. Remember seeing a few fixed carrying handle M4s with 101st about that time too. When in 1/10 SFGA in Germany in 2000-2003 our Air Force Weather team had GAU-5s what were hodpodged of AR parts from all generations. Back in 5th when in Iraq 04-05' I had several Bushmaster M15A1 Carbines (14.5" 1:9, flat top, FS, S-1-Full) that were assigned to my SCIF for other agency use ( I had to inventory them every month). When I was a Robin Sage Instructor at Camp MacKall in 06-07' our OPFOR weapons had a mix of M4A1 marked receivers and several M16A2 Carbines with 14.5" bbl, 1:7, A2/FS and full auto. Had one in picture that had A1 upper receiver. Don't know if issued that way or SWC armorer replaced it. Now I'm a SOF contracted armorer who builds Mk18s down range. (carry both a G19 and a 44' Remington Rand 1911A1 frame with a WWI Colt slide) http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/M16A2_Carbine.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/M16_carbine_close_up.jpg CD Thanks for sharing CD. If only we had more guys like yourself hanging around the site. Did you have much interaction with the early free float setups when they first came about? (Armalite fiberglass, FF RAS models, etc.) On the handguards went from USGI M4 round handguards, to the KAC RIS (SOPMOD), ARMS 50C (IIRC, unit issue) and now the DD FF RIS I/II for both 10.3" and 14.5" bbls. CD |
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Posted: 11/9/2014 12:39:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the handguards went from USGI M4 round handguards, to the KAC RIS (SOPMOD), ARMS 50C (IIRC, unit issue) and now the DD FF RIS I/II for both 10.3" and 14.5" bbls. CD Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ok, I finished the SFQC in late 84' and joined 5th SFGA which was armed with XM16E1s and M16A1s at the time. There were only a few M16 Carbines in the battalion at the time (XM177E1 types). In 87' we turned those in for M16A2s and used to use duct tape and hose clamps to secure 3 cell mag lights below the handguards. Then in 95' got our M4A1s. Remember seeing a few fixed carrying handle M4s with 101st about that time too. When in 1/10 SFGA in Germany in 2000-2003 our Air Force Weather team had GAU-5s what were hodpodged of AR parts from all generations. Back in 5th when in Iraq 04-05' I had several Bushmaster M15A1 Carbines (14.5" 1:9, flat top, FS, S-1-Full) that were assigned to my SCIF for other agency use ( I had to inventory them every month). When I was a Robin Sage Instructor at Camp MacKall in 06-07' our OPFOR weapons had a mix of M4A1 marked receivers and several M16A2 Carbines with 14.5" bbl, 1:7, A2/FS and full auto. Had one in picture that had A1 upper receiver. Don't know if issued that way or SWC armorer replaced it. Now I'm a SOF contracted armorer who builds Mk18s down range. (carry both a G19 and a 44' Remington Rand 1911A1 frame with a WWI Colt slide) http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/M16A2_Carbine.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/M16_carbine_close_up.jpg CD Thanks for sharing CD. If only we had more guys like yourself hanging around the site. Did you have much interaction with the early free float setups when they first came about? (Armalite fiberglass, FF RAS models, etc.) On the handguards went from USGI M4 round handguards, to the KAC RIS (SOPMOD), ARMS 50C (IIRC, unit issue) and now the DD FF RIS I/II for both 10.3" and 14.5" bbls. CD Thanks. It seems those variants I mentioned were used in a very limited capacity and for a short time. Mainly with SFOD-D in the early days of the war. I've seen a few pics of Devgru guys with the short and medium FF RAS as well.
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Posted: 11/10/2014 8:43:03 PM EDT
[#35]
The closest thing I have.
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Posted: 11/10/2014 9:12:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The closest thing I have. <a href="http://s187.photobucket.com/user/spudcat2/media/DSCF1592_zpsb8789704.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x292/spudcat2/DSCF1592_zpsb8789704.jpg</a> Besides the longer barrel, that looks exactly like the first one I built. Good job! |
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Posted: 11/10/2014 9:33:57 PM EDT
[#37]
That's beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 11/11/2014 3:03:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The closest thing I have. <a href="http://s187.photobucket.com/user/spudcat2/media/DSCF1592_zpsb8789704.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x292/spudcat2/DSCF1592_zpsb8789704.jpg</a> Damn that thing is purdy. Set up the same exact way my service rifle clone is minus the optic. Even have the same rails, same vert grip in the same spot and same rail covers in the same exact spots. 2 great minds think alike |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 3:34:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Here is my 727 clone, pretty much done, minus the sling swivel and needing a black charging handle..
Kinda ironic I finished it during the riots I think.. Not gonna go gray though... Colt 6933 SBR lower, FN A2 upper, Colt M4 barrel and 6 hole handguards, Colt Fiberlite stock, LMT A2 flash suppressor with peel washer (yea, I need to vacuum...) And forgot to mention its a Colt A1 pistol grip.. 
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Posted: 11/25/2014 3:58:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is my 727 clone, pretty much done, minus the sling swivel and needing a black charging handle.. Kinda ironic I finished it during the riots I think.. Not gonna go gray though... Colt 6933 SBR lower, FN A2 upper, Colt M4 barrel and 6 hole handguards, Colt Fiberlite stock, LMT A2 flash suppressor with peel washer (yea, I need to vacuum...) http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m638/hydguy70/imagejpg1.jpg Nice looking 727 there. I have one in the works. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:08:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a bit of a post script to this whole story, the U.S. Navy appears, at least until as late as 2006 to have had a bit of a problem with excess RO727, or "Colt 727s" remaining in the inventory. As Navy folks have told me, apparently, the way the Navy supply system works - they can't ever drop items procured under one nomenclature/LIN/NSN and transfer the serial numbers of those items to another LIN - so they're "stuck" with a small number of RO727s or "Colt Model 727s" that they can't get rid of, nor can they re-classify them as M4A1s, even with appropriate modifications, etc. It appears as though once NSW was re-fitted with M4A1s, seeing no need to "waste a good thing," recycled the existing RO727s, issuing them out and around to various other types of units such as, but not limited to EOD, SWCC, K9, etc. Probably Squid1jz's friend's carbine was one of those - "if that rifle could talk..." it might have some interesting things to say. Meanwhile, many of those RO727s in the Navy appear to have been modified by now to where they're nearly indistinguishable from M4A1s - except for what they say on the lower, and how they're accounted for in the supply system. In fact, I've recently begun to believe that the famous "Navy EOD MK 18s" are, at least in part, RO727 lowers that have been updated and equipped with 10.3" CQBR URGs (though some are clearly M4A1 lowers - some appear to have been RO727s originally). ~Augee The navy recycles they do a good job of re finishing the guns and re building them at Crane. As everyone probably knows Crane supplies Navy with small arms, these weapons must be returned to Crane as issued or its bad ju ju. e.g. if a unit armorer puts on a rail system and the gun came with plastic hand guards the plastic hand guards must be put back on before it can be sent back. I was in a unit around 2009 that still had Remington 870's and M16A2E3 rifles. With that said Crane does build or should I say rebuild guns for issue in the Navy system. I have seen and shot/qualified with M16, M4, Mk18 configuration weapons using AR-15 markings and XM16E1, M16A2 on the lower. These came from Crane rebuilt with rails, new stocks, new uppers etc. and the unit armorer would sometimes add other items to the guns for specific purposes based upon feedback from the end user (think VLTOR and EOD). For the most part they are your standard stuff as you would see on a factory website. Crane also just sends out guns the Navy buys as well such as your standard FN M16A3. You will probably not see many rebuilds out of NSW armories however, my last deployment I was issued a brand new Colt M4A1, Mk25 and all brand new magazines. Brownells for the M4 and factory Sig for the Mk25. Of course all Navy lowers as far as I know are Full Auto and not burst(never seen a burst) and we don't safety wire anything to the gun. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 1:49:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is my 727 clone, pretty much done, minus the sling swivel and needing a black charging handle.. Kinda ironic I finished it during the riots I think.. Not gonna go gray though... Colt 6933 SBR lower, FN A2 upper, Colt M4 barrel and 6 hole handguards, Colt Fiberlite stock, LMT A2 flash suppressor with peel washer (yea, I need to vacuum...) And forgot to mention its a Colt A1 pistol grip.. http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m638/hydguy70/imagejpg1.jpg niiiiice |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:18:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is my 727 clone, pretty much done, minus the sling swivel and needing a black charging handle.. Kinda ironic I finished it during the riots I think.. Not gonna go gray though... Colt 6933 SBR lower, FN A2 upper, Colt M4 barrel and 6 hole handguards, Colt Fiberlite stock, LMT A2 flash suppressor with peel washer (yea, I need to vacuum...) And forgot to mention its a Colt A1 pistol grip.. http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m638/hydguy70/imagejpg1.jpg I like the carbine, but a little less "skin" please! 
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:30:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the carbine, but a little less "skin" please! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here is my 727 clone, pretty much done, minus the sling swivel and needing a black charging handle.. Kinda ironic I finished it during the riots I think.. Not gonna go gray though... Colt 6933 SBR lower, FN A2 upper, Colt M4 barrel and 6 hole handguards, Colt Fiberlite stock, LMT A2 flash suppressor with peel washer (yea, I need to vacuum...) And forgot to mention its a Colt A1 pistol grip.. http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m638/hydguy70/imagejpg1.jpg I like the carbine, but a little less "skin" please! Toes are an essential element to a good pic!! |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:53:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Toes are an essential element to a good pic!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is my 727 clone, pretty much done, minus the sling swivel and needing a black charging handle.. Kinda ironic I finished it during the riots I think.. Not gonna go gray though... Colt 6933 SBR lower, FN A2 upper, Colt M4 barrel and 6 hole handguards, Colt Fiberlite stock, LMT A2 flash suppressor with peel washer (yea, I need to vacuum...) And forgot to mention its a Colt A1 pistol grip.. http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m638/hydguy70/imagejpg1.jpg I like the carbine, but a little less "skin" please! Toes are an essential element to a good pic!! LOL!  I need to buy a camera so I can take some pics of mine. My cell phone takes crappy pics. 
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Posted: 12/3/2014 5:23:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Oh gosh that was funny.
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Posted: 12/10/2014 8:30:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 12/10/2014 10:36:31 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 12/11/2014 11:00:50 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 12/11/2014 2:36:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Yup, super nice. As usual.
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