Well, they haven't got me yet, and mine has had a 9000 on it for a while.

Great looking gun!

I was almost disappointed with your pics...until I noticed the yellow Honda just barely made it into the last shot.

I used this stuff... lol.  I joined arfcom when it was an "L" list... Man, I'm old...

Other than this supposedly accurate print.  Is there any definitive reference as to how MSG Gary Gordon's 733 may have appeared?

Search for threads by "ScubaJoe".

Also, are you sure it is a 733 and not a 723 with a reflex suppressor?

From what I had read (I’m sorry I don’t have a link) it was a 723 with an ops inc suppressor.  But I believe the print is pretty accurate.

I could very well be off with my numbers regarding model.  I recall the comments made by scubajoe and you’re right.  It was a 14.5” barrel with the OPS inc reflex over the entire front portion.

@Infidel4life11 yes they ship South of the border to the US. Just called and talked to them. Act fast he may only have one left.  I ordered one myself.

When outfitting a weapon light for a RO727 from the BHD era, is it correct to have a Butler Creek objective cap on a Surefire 660 to prevent accidental light discharges?

Gordon and Shuggart never met or encountered the pilots did they? Pretty sure I read that.

According to that print from the movie they did

When they reached Super Six Four, Gordon and Shughart extracted the pilot, Chief Warrant Officer Mike Durant, Bill Cleveland, Ray Frank, and Tommy Field from the aircraft, and established defensive positions around the crash site. Despite having inflicted heavy casualties on the Somalis, the two Delta snipers were outnumbered and outgunned. Their ammunition nearly depleted, Gordon and Shughart were killed by Somali gunfire. It is believed that Gordon was the first to be killed. Shughart retrieved Gordon's CAR-15 and gave it to Durant to use. Shortly after, Shughart was killed and Durant was taken alive. Immediately after the battle, the Somalis counted 25 of their own men dead with many more severely wounded.

IIRC, there was a dude that did a lot of research on building Shugharts M14 and the consensus by him was the person that did this painting took a lot of care and knew who to talk to about what those guys had.

That's just a story and I can't confirm or deny with any level of accuracy.  But I do believe I was convinced when he talked about it.  This person was in the military.  I think it might even be earlier in this thread.

Hey guys, is there a consolidated parts chart for the 723 and 727? I was hoping to compile one for each ala the Mk12/Mk18/Block II etc. clone threads to give folks a central list to look at. This thread has become the de-facto 723/727 BHD clone thread so I figured it's the best place to ask and get some consults on a list/build guide. I don't know if OP is still here to update the OP and I'm not saying sink the thread and start over, but I think it would be helpful to curate a list that can be shared here, on the retro/clone FB groups, Reddit, etc.

My goal is a good/better/best approach. Focus on the key qualities of each carbine < better parts for a more "correct" rifle < best down to original and correct markings, manufacturer, and date range.

From what I understand there isn't a 100% standard on what every single 723 or 727 had as they morphed over time, but I'd like to document and the different iterations/combos. Think A1 vs A2 lowers, 723 with skinny vs later 203 cut barrel, 727 with A1 lower, etc.

Here's what I have going and if someone already started this, I'd appreciate a pointer to that post/page #. PLEASE, feel free to highlight, provide corrections, pics, etc. I'd really like to see a consolidated resource as these have been and I'd bet will continue to be a must-have build for collectors.

Up front, I'm really looking for details on:
- finish color for uppers/lowers
- barrel/upper/fsb etc. forge marks and stamps
- 727 M203 cut barrel diagram as I'm told it differs from M4
- correct A2 Carry Handle adapters for Aimpoints
- Correct rings for AP 2000/3000/5000
- Slings

* Question marks indicate unverified or where I'm flat unsure

RO 723 Build Guide

Upper

Rcvr: “C7” type, A1 with shell deflector, A1 rear sight
Barrel:
- [Original]14.5” .625 1:7” twist, carbine gas, A2 FSB
- [Later/upgraded] 14.5” 1:7 government .750” with M203 cut, carbine gas, A2 FSB
Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider with peel washer
Bolt Carrier: M16 phosphate
Charging Handle: M16A2
Handguards: 6-hole “skinny” single heatshield, with tapered A2 slip ring
Forward Assist: Standard A2 button or “large” A2 button (if used with A2 lower needs clearance cut)

Lower

Rcvr:
- [Early/majority] A1 profile, safe-semi-auto markings
- [Late] A2 profile (unsure if transitional with “smooth” rear reinforcement or later/commercial)

Rollmark:
[Colt’s Pony]
(Commercial Stylized) Colt
M16 A2
CAL. 5.56 MM
SN

Colt's MFG markings over FCG

Grip: A2
Stock:
- [Early] CAR vinyl acetate AL
- [Late/most 723] CAR N1 Fiberite

Buffer Tube:
- [Early] 2 position extension, or “modified” 2-pos with extra stops machined
- [Late] 4 position
RE lock ring/endplate: CAR pattern
Small parts: M16A2

Optic

Aimpoint 2000/3000/5000
- CH Adapter: ARMS, ?
- Rings: Leupold ?

Light

Laser Products marked Sure Fire, 6P or 660? with pressure switch, M14 barrel mount

Sling


RO 727 Build Guide

Upper

Rcvr: A2
Barrel:
- [Early] 14.5” .625 1:7” twist, carbine gas, A2 FSB
- [Later/most 727s] 14.5” 1:7 government .750” with M203 cut, carbine gas, A2 FSB

Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider with peel washer
Bolt Carrier: M16 phosphate
Charging Handle: M16A2
Handguards: 6-hole “skinny” single heatshield, with tapered A2 slip ring
Forward Assist: Standard A2 button or “large” A2 button with clearance cut

Lower

Rcvr:
- [Early] A1 profile, safe-semi-auto markings
- [Late/majority] A2 transitional with smooth rear reinforcement or later standard A2

Rollmark:
[Colt’s Pony]
“Stylized” Colt
M16 A2
CAL. 5.56 MM
SN

Colt's MFG markings over FCG

Grip: A2
Stock: CAR N1 Fiberite
Buffer Tube:
- [Early] 2 position extension, or “modified” 2-pos with extra stops machined
- [Late] 4 position ?
RE lock ring/endplate: CAR pattern
Small parts: M16A2

Optic

Aimpoint 2000/3000/5000
- CH Adapter: ARMS, ?
- Rings: Leupold ?

Light

- Laser Products marked Sure Fire, 6P or 660? with pressure switch, M14 barrel mount

Sling

The original Surefire light mount set is Surefire M10/M14 barrel  clamp and 1" weaver style ring.  Light is early 6P or shock isolated 660 WL w/fixed taicap switch.

The sling is a Silent type or field assembled expedient sling

Most of the rings I see are Aimpoint, save for a few of the “Simmons” style round ones.

It may be worth pointing out that the current A.R.M.S. #2 carry handle scope mount is a bit different than the early ones. The current ones are cut to picatinny specs the full length, the vintage ones had five Weaver notches.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1600&bih=776&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=QEp7W5O1N6Pk8APqxIe4Cg&q=vintage+arms+%232+carry+handle+scope+mount&oq=vintage+arms+%232+carry+handle+scope+mount&gs_l=img.12...28830.33555.0.34856.13.13.0.0.0.0.154.1761.0j13.13.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.nBBn8szE7II#imgrc=UJ6cr890jn-MOM:

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1600&bih=776&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=CUl7W8ixHJHB0PEP59acsAQ&q=+arms+%232+carry+handle+scope+mount&oq=+arms+%232+carry+handle+scope+mount&gs_l=img.3...444438.447717.0.448602.8.5.0.0.0.0.199.493.0j3.3.0....0...1c.1j2.64.img..5.0.0....0.SoOm5c-JoEw#imgrc=wDLk6cwZaVeAlM:

Ultralux had a decent copy of the early #2 mount.

www.google.com/search?biw=1600&bih=776&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=QUt7W7vhKcmJ0wL5n4WQCg&q=ultralux+carry+handle+scope+mount&oq=ultralux+carry+handle+scope+mount&gs_l=img.3...30456.33313.0.34818.8.8.0.0.0.0.157.1110.0j8.8.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.pkZ4bad-EXA#imgrc=NP6n3khWwZgb7M:

I put up a Colt A2 upper with a pencil barrel in EE, if anyone is looking for one.

You're making me feel old.  I have the ARMS #2 with the weaver slots.

I actually started to say something like, "For you younger guys..."  

I finally got one together just the way I want it. This gun will have its own lower once the P&W is done and a different optic.

You can't stop time.  

That is hot.  I actually like the vltor on that.  Not clone correct but for some reason it works on there.

It’ll have a correct stock and a so-so correct grip once the barrel is pinned.

Scored this earlier in the week!

Hell Yeah!

Yeah I'm stoked!

So I'm building two carbines.  One as close as I can to MSG Gordon's rifle and the second, for fun, a copy of a BHD movie Delta carbine.

Got some place holders until parts come in.
Colt upper
FN barrel
AP 2000
Knights Vero Beach Ras

Well build number 1 is done.  I'm calling this the BHD Screen build so it's not confused with historical accuracy.  Eventually I will add the M68 sight used in the movie but for right now I'm gonna rock it the way it is.  Sling will be coming soon for it.  Next up with be MSG Gordon's rifle.  That one will take a bit longer due to barrel work that will need to be done.  Sorry for the crap photo.

Well I just finished my clone it's nothe perfect but I really enjoyed building it. Actually I think I enjoyed the hunt for the harder to find part's even more. Anyway here are some pictures.

Amazing, great job Rock

25 years ago today

Operation Gothic Serpent, Oct 3-4 1993

6

Question.  Does a 1993 M4 carbine with the fixed A2 handle have a 6/3 or an 8/3 on the elevation dial ?  My thought is the M4 was nothing more than an M16 (8/3) that had a barrel swap.  am I right or wrong ?  When did they Army go to using the 6/3 to zero the M4 ?
kwg

I think the 6/3 was designed for the removable carry handle, the 8/3 for fixed, bbl length doesnt matter.

Not correct but definitely influenced.
Untitled by T B, on Flickr

I love it!  Do I see a noveske marked A2 upper?

Thanks for the reply Mech4.  It was mostly by accident but I did get the right rear sight.

kwg

Thanks for those pics.  I have never seen those.

I see the Noveske iron cross as well, dang that's hot!!!

Attached File

Does anyone know which model of ops inc suppressor is most accurate to get for a bhd/Mogadishu build?

While I’m not an expert. Ops Inc wasn’t mass producing the suppressors those guys used. Allen Engineering could tell you the exact model but I’d bet it hasn’t been used in 20years. I’d say modern times the 12th model would be the closest bet.

3rd model is the closest, but according to augee they were using a predecessor to the 3rd.

Yep, the original OPS Inc suppressors predated Ron Allen's tenure at OPS, and they used a 1, 2, or 3 piece clamp mount that butted up to the FSB and I believe engaged the bayonet lug. Ultimately Ron is one of the guys that helped design and move away to the tapered collar layout of the 3rd model, and later on the threaded brake/collar as seen on the 12th Model that came out of the SPR program. During testing of the SPRs in 1999-2000 they were still using versions of the original OPS suppressors, as seen here:


If you head to Allen Engineering's FB page there's some pics in there of the collar setup.

Nice!

Finished my build.  Aimpoint 2000 and new surefire.  It’ll do until I get more correct upgrades.

And with my other A2s

Looks damn good! Nice collection btw