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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:13:13 PM EDT
I own a Sig 516 gen 2 and so far have found it to be an exceptional rifle.  I found this recently released youtube video which discusses its development and how it in part was derived from the HK 416.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA5kVsPj6oA
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 9:10:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Ive never had any issues with mine, great rifle.  I think on of the reasons it never really took off was because of the hand guard. I don't have an issue with it, i like it actually, but aside from the carbon lancer, you are stuck with it.  With the modularity of other rifles, this can be seen as an issue.  Sig knocked it out of the park with the 516, IMO
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 12:24:23 PM EDT
[#2]
I agree with the handguard.  It seems like a great rifle, but I think folks are really into keymod and mlok and they just don't like the picatinny.  I'm still thinking of buying one of the sbr's however.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 7:53:35 PM EDT
[#3]
There's some misinformation based on ignorance of the 416 series.

Once he got to the part discussing how none of the parts on a 416 are compatible with a standard DI gun, I turned it off.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:58:16 AM EDT
[#4]
I thought the issue was that SIG copied some of the piston parts, i.e. the bolt carrier, straight from the LWRC platform. SIG and LWRC bolt carriers are still interchangeable.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 2:12:26 AM EDT
[#5]
The 516 is a great design. From what I understand the engineer was the guy or one of the guys who developed the HK416. Sig had a winner, but they chose not to continue further developement or refine it.

Sig has a reputation for putting out great rifle then just discontinue it. You see this with their 556 line. Now its their MCX. It seem like their focus is all over the map.

I have a 522 that I love, but I fear its days are numbered.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 2:58:28 AM EDT
[#6]
If I were looking at a piston gun, LWRCI is hard to beat.  The Sig 516 has real potential but it's dead IMO.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 7:42:48 AM EDT
[#7]
I've never seen the desire for Sig.

There are those that love them, I'm glad they are happy.
I just have no desire to own anything that is Sig
Link Posted: 5/3/2017 4:09:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The 516 is a great design. From what I understand the engineer was the guy or one of the guys who developed the HK416. Sig had a winner, but they chose not to continue further developement or refine it.

Sig has a reputation for putting out great rifle then just discontinue it. You see this with their 556 line. Now its their MCX. It seem like their focus is all over the map.

I have a 522 that I love, but I fear its days are numbered.
View Quote
Agreed. I was about to buy a 556 R and now cant find an unused one anywhere.
Link Posted: 5/3/2017 3:45:07 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Sig has a reputation for putting out great rifle then just discontinue it.
View Quote
LOL... that's not the SIG rep when it comes to long guns...
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:40:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


LOL... that's not the SIG rep when it comes to long guns...
View Quote
Huh?  Yea it is.  They did with the 556Xi, the MCX, and the 516.  Sig can never commit to any product.  They throw it out there, then they leave it out there to die.  I'll never buy a SIG rifle because of that.  handguns, yes.  They actually keep up with those.  Rifles?  LOL.  SIG is the ADHD of gun manufacturers.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 8:35:52 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


Huh?  Yea it is.  They did with the 556Xi, the MCX, and the 516.
View Quote
...and none of those are "great rifles."

Why do you suppose they get discontinued?

SIG would have been more than happy to make the sales on those rifles- the market rejected them, because they were junk.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:11:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:16:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:21:34 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
The lead for the 516 and MCX was (the lead?) Engineer on the 416.
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Hahaha... oh, realllllly?

And his name is:

(Tell us!)
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:29:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 5/6/2017 9:47:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The lead for the 516 and MCX was (the lead?) Engineer on the 416.

People wanted a classic series rifle from SIG, but the costs to recreate them would make them unaffordable to the market. Much of the expensive stamping and welding equipment wasnt available and would need to be purchased. Then they made the 556 which basically sucked.

Later they hired the 416 guy and his team built the 516.

SIG was now producing 2 rifles. A piston AR and an outdated stamped metal rifle that needed constant revision.

They started development on the 556 XI with the idea to modernize the 556 and make it more modern (multiple caliber, use serviceable barrel, ambi, etc...) except it didn't work even after dumping money into it. It was shelved.

About that time, the 516 team was answering the call from the military for a small compact suppressed 300BLK rifle to be a contract alternative to the COTS proof of concept AAC Honeybadger. They built a short, dedicated gun called the MCX.

At that point someone had an idea to make the MCX more marketable by making it a multicaliber rifle alternative to the HK416. More work was completed and the MCX project expanded and the development team and management realized the benefits of this rifle over the AR, 556n and 516 as SIGs flagship future rifle.

Around the same time an engineer was hired to fix the 556XI to recoup development costs. The design was corrected and made a viable rifle. The world market wanted ARs, the military markets wanted the MCX, and the civilian market wanted classic SIGs like 552s, etc...

The XI was destined to fail as it was an outdated rifle that competed directly with a newer more advanced rifle.

The 516 and M400 continue to be produced because they're selling a lot of them. The MCX will continue to sell because there's a lot of interest from institutional purchasers and they're selling every one they make.

The XI was a cool gun, but once it was shelved and the MCX transitioned from a dedicated 300BLK to an AR alternative it should have stayed shelved.

The 556 had a long run, but it was outdated and difficult to build correctly. Market-wise it was an "also ran" but customers expect every rifle to hacer the same 50 years of development and standardization as the AR on day one. Which is unrealistic for any company.

Hope this clears up some of the history of SIG rifles.
View Quote
A good way to sum it up. With the MCX there is no reason for the 556Xi to exist. It isn't the classic 550/1/3 and it offers no advantage of the MCX. Likewise, there really is no reason for the 516 to exist anymore either. They should just shelve both designs and focus on the MCX and DI AR-15s. ARs are not going anywhere anytime soon so it would be dumb to stop building them. The MCX is going places.

They can import the SIG-553 while Swiss Arms still produces them and the collectors will have to pay the (sadly) high prices for them. My understanding is that they are likely going out of business soon anyways.
Link Posted: 5/8/2017 4:30:55 PM EDT
[#17]
not a big fan of a piston rifle that still need maintenance like that. gas rings and cleaning of that op-rod, no thanks. that defeats half the reason to own a piston driven AR type and that is also the reason i dont own a SCAR 16 anymore, with its gas ring on the piston head to fail.

i had a POF piston upper and that stupid rotating gas plug would lock up when dirty..... oh wait....and so did the one on my SCAR. pain in the ass. i'd rather clean a DI gun that dick with these things.

for those reasons alone, LWRC is the only one i'll own, although the PWS seems good too.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:55:29 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a gen 2 516. It is bullet proof. Every one that i know with the 516 and 716 have had zero issues with them. It is the most gun you can get for that money. The next competetor is a full $1000 more.
The coatings used cozt more than most homebuilders spend on parts. Throw in all the ninja alloys and enhancements and it is totally operator grade.
Link Posted: 6/19/2017 11:52:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've never seen the desire for Sig.

There are those that love them, I'm glad they are happy.
I just have no desire to own anything that is Sig
View Quote
Thank you for your awesome insight. Lol.
Why even post if it's just to shit in someone else's thread?
Link Posted: 6/21/2017 9:48:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thank you for your awesome insight. Lol.
Why even post if it's just to shit in someone else's thread?
View Quote
You come to complain about a post I made almost two months ago?
My apologies if you were offended by my thoughts and post. Bashing the product or Sig was not my intent.

The platform does have ties to HK, and that in its self is impressive.
The platform was put out then left to rot and die. Sig does this regularly. They do not improve upon a design.
They leave it to rot and move on to another....and repeat the process. It does not make it a bad rifle, its one that just does not get advanced.
Link Posted: 6/21/2017 10:51:44 AM EDT
[#21]
The thread was geared towards the historical ties between the 516 and the 416.
NOT to bash SIG or the rifle. So i would agree with the above post.
So to come to the thread and bash is just uncalled for. If you no likie, you no buyie. Simple.
In SIGs defense, they are in no way bound to continue to upgrade or even continue to make any model they put out. I am thankful they made the rifle in the first place. When demand stops, so will they. Simple as that.
Considering they sell em faster than they make em, it might be a while before they stop making them
Link Posted: 6/21/2017 11:41:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The thread was geared towards the historical ties between the 516 and the 416.
NOT to bash SIG or the rifle. So i would agree with the above post.
So to come to the thread and bash is just uncalled for. If you no likie, you no buyie. Simple.
In SIGs defense, they are in no way bound to continue to upgrade or even continue to make any model they put out. I am thankful they made the rifle in the first place. When demand stops, so will they. Simple as that.
Considering they sell em faster than they make em, it might be a while before they stop making them
View Quote
I wonder how the Sig would hold up to 855A1 ammo?
The HK is having a bit of problems with it, as is the M4.

Sig makes a darn robust bolt assembly, any ideas on durability and lifespan?
Link Posted: 6/21/2017 2:43:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Considering their bolt materials are upgraded over the TDP equivalent,  i douvt there will be any imore ssues than any other mfg.
Link Posted: 8/5/2017 6:09:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Robert Hirt
http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=3707

Looks like he's with Carcal now.

ETA: not sure why you feel the need to be condescending, it's not exactly uncommon knowledge.
View Quote
As you know with the internet, some people feel the need to be a douchebag.

I like the MCX and 516.  I hope the carcal model makes it here.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 12:54:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I agree with the handguard.  It seems like a great rifle, but I think folks are really into keymod and mlok and they just don't like the picatinny.  I'm still thinking of buying one of the sbr's however.
View Quote
So let me ask this, if I may......

Do you think the 516 would have done better if it had a KeyMod rail? Or even something more like the Knights Mod 1?
Was it simply the pica tinny rail or the overall length that was the issue?
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 1:09:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Love my 10" 516.
Link Posted: 4/13/2018 11:06:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I own a Sig 516 gen 2 and so far have found it to be an exceptional rifle.  I found this recently released youtube video which discusses its development and how it in part was derived from the HK 416.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA5kVsPj6oA
View Quote
@kyjd75

Which channel's video was this? It has been removed.
Link Posted: 4/13/2018 11:09:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The 516 is a great design. From what I understand the engineer was the guy or one of the guys who developed the HK416. Sig had a winner, but they chose not to continue further developement or refine it.

Sig has a reputation for putting out great rifle then just discontinue it. You see this with their 556 line. Now its their MCX. It seem like their focus is all over the map.

I have a 522 that I love, but I fear its days are numbered.
View Quote
Robert Hirt, who also worked on the MCX, IIRC

Chris Sirois also worked on the 516, and the MCX.

They both work for Caracal.
Link Posted: 4/13/2018 11:10:56 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
If I were looking at a piston gun, LWRCI is hard to beat.  The Sig 516 has real potential but it's dead IMO.
View Quote
Because of the MCX?
Link Posted: 4/13/2018 11:39:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If I were looking at a piston gun, LWRCI is hard to beat.  The Sig 516 has real potential but it's dead IMO.
View Quote
Maybe so, but my (10.5”) 516 is my favorite rifle.  Reliable, accurate, and has never had a technical issue.  I didn’t like the rail, so I replaced it with a carbon fiber tube (not sure I saved a ton of weight, but it feels better to me).
Link Posted: 4/13/2018 12:36:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Pretty sure Sig has abandoned the design in favor of the MCX.  The 516 is a great gun, but too pricey for an AR15.  The HK416 hasn't exactly taken off in the civilian market either, but HK has military contracts that keep the design profitable, so they don't really care about civilians.
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 8:27:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pretty sure Sig has abandoned the design in favor of the MCX.  The 516 is a great gun, but too pricey for an AR15.  The HK416 hasn't exactly taken off in the civilian market either, but HK has military contracts that keep the design profitable, so they don't really care about civilians.
View Quote
Unfortunately, ITAR gives the civvie 416 variants an edge on the European market.
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 10:12:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Gene Stoner designed the AR-18 after the AR-15 as a cheaper, easier to produce alternative that avoided patent infringement. Notwithstanding both the dubious claims that all modern piston ARs (and many other 5.56 piston guns) are derived from the AR-18 operating system and that the 516 may have edged into infringing on LWRC patents, the AR-18 itself when effectively nowhere, and few people believe the weapon itself (not its derivatives) to have been particularly successful.

If anything, the greatest contribution of that particular exercise were the lessons learned that were applied to other weapon systems to allow them to become more successful that could also be applied to the 516 and the MCX.

~Augee
Link Posted: 4/16/2018 2:50:42 AM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
Because of the MCX?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I were looking at a piston gun, LWRCI is hard to beat.  The Sig 516 has real potential but it's dead IMO.
Because of the MCX?
They are both workable designs IMO...but the future belongs to the one that shows up on the shelves of stores in quantity and at a price people will pay.

Sig has brought a lot of great guns to market over the years...that they failed to support with parts, common access to them at normal stores, and unavailable barrel lengths, etc.

With their selection for the US Military pistol...they are going to be flush with $$$ and have little time to do anything else.  I expect them to suck at everything not related to that pistol for a couple of years.  They should call it Colt Syndrome.
Link Posted: 4/16/2018 8:17:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The HK416 hasn't exactly taken off in the civilian market either, but HK has military contracts that keep the design profitable, so they don't really care about civilians.
View Quote
Actually HK cares about civilian market a lot. They are selling 4 variants of civi HK416 (MR223A3 in 11.5", 14.5", 16.5" and 20"), 5 civi variants of HK417 (MR308A3 in 13", 16,5" and 20" plus MR308A3-28 in 16.5" and 20") as well as civilian variant of G28 (designated G28Z - only difference from mil-spec model is using letter "Z" in designation). Also 2 variants of G36 (HK 234S SAR and 234S TAR). I would say, they have quite extensive offer of civilian variants of their military rifles. There is only one tiny detail that keeps them from offering those in USA - import ban. Going around this ban is difficult and expensive. Only real way is to actually manufacture stuff in US (as Polish FB Radom factory just learned hard way and closed FB Radom USA). HK will do that in new factory they are opening in USA to serve both mil/le and civilian market.

However now, HK has only Oberndorf plant running and between lot of mil/le contracts they recently won and big volumes of VP9/40 they make for US market, they have a problem to meed demand on civilian market.
Link Posted: 4/16/2018 8:57:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 4/16/2018 10:57:22 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:By all accounts they're great guns, but they aren't available to the largest firearms market in the world.
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There is a certain touch of social justice in that. We (poor EU SOBs) can't have all the cool stuff you (biggest gun market) have because of stupid ITAR and Department of Commerce restrictions you put on rest of the world, but at same time we can have all cool HK stuff you (biggest gun market) can't have, because of import restrictions you put on yourself. Kind of self punishment
Link Posted: 5/3/2018 11:45:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Some of you may appreciate this but I just randomly acquired an original gen 1 516 carrier from the wild...I’ve been waiting 7 years for this moment...my 516 also has the original milled skeletonized has block from gen 1.

MBell is correct, I compared it and it is exactly the same as the LWRC carrier...

I apologized for all the labels, it was originally made for a FB SIG Owners United Group.

Link Posted: 5/5/2018 9:38:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

@kyjd75

Which channel's video was this? It has been removed.
View Quote
I can't see the video either. What happened to it?
Link Posted: 5/5/2018 9:31:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Sig copied the LWRC design and LWRC sued and won a settlement against Sig.  I have an LWRC REPR and M6-A3 DMR and both are very well built.  But I wanted a 7.62 that was a little handier.  Instead of getting a shorter upper from LWRC, for the same price, I picked up a Sig 716 Patrol.  I only wish it had the side cocking handle.  I also have an HK MR556A1 which is similar to the HK416 and the design appears to be different from the Sig/LWRC design.
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