Piston AR recommendations.

Hi,

I have experience with handguns and shotguns.
I would like to purchase piston driven AR.
I have tried couple DI and talked to owners about cleaning.
Almost all have love / hate relationship, love to shoot and hate to clean it.
As per my understanding, piston AR requires less maintenance.
I still need to clean it, but less often and mostly in the piston area.
Between clay target shooting, pistol range and other activities, I do not see myself shooing over 2000 rounds per year. 200 – 300 rounds per range session and 5 - 6 visits per year.
Based on sales propaganda, nickel alloy treated system could be cleaned ones a year and they surpass chrome plated. Is it true?

Our outdoor range is limited to 100 yards and indoor range to 50 yards, no 400 yard targets.
I am not planning to put a lot of accessories, probably a red dot and bipod or vertical handle for teenagers.
I am not interested in purchasing trying and selling firearms.
I prefer to purchase quality firearm and use it for years.


I started some research but between number of companies and options, I do not want to spend a year to research.
I am looking for some guidelines and recommendations.
I had experience with value build handguns, it provided an opportunity to do some gunsmith work, but I personally prefer to buy a quality product.

Since new account is limited to 2000 chars, I have to split my post in two.

part 2
It appears that we have really different price range.
For example:

Colt LE6940 short stroke piston – today’s price $1300
Ruger SR556 short stroke piston ~ $1200
PWS MK116  long stroke piston  ~ $1700
LWRC short stroke piston over $2000 but I am confused between A2, A5 and Enhanced

I do not have an open budget but I am flexible.
I can pay for LWRC, but at the same I am not clear about tangible benefits of LWRC and I can use that money to buy ammo.

Should I be focusing or short stoke piston design or long stroke?
Long stroke could be a bit heavier but short stroke may have “carrier tilt” issues in some models.
I probably should go with mid length system.

I reviewed Ron’s thread, it has a lot of info, but he is using mostly DI firearms.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_rounds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html&page=1

Based on some other threads / youtube / forums, I have this list, I do not know if all companies are making piston AR.
This thread lists piston gun manufacturer's and I am going to cross reference my list with this tread.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_126/497241_PISTON_GUN_MANUFACTURER_S_LINKS_TO_WEBSITES.html

I will be focusing on piston AR from Medium To High Quality list.

Medium To High Quality
Yankee Hill Machine
DPMS
PWS
Sig Sauer
Rock River Arms

High End
LWRC
Wilson Combat
Daniels Defense
Larue Tactical

Could you please help me with the list or recommend AR based on my needs?

LMT

Not much time to respond but, PWS should be in your high end list as the quality and customer service is 2nd to none of the above imo.

Seriously look into Black Rifle Arms C.A.P.S. system....I think they have the best-regulated system, and the regulator stays cool even when the gas block will burn the shit out of you and after 1.000's of rounds and no cleaning the knob can still be turned with no problem, and their complete uppers are tack drivers. http://www.blackriflearms.com/CAPS-PISTON-UPPERS_c_49.html

CDNN has a great buy on some LWRC's! Both in 5.56 and 6.8 spcII

I have a Ruger SR556 but have also had the opportunity to shoot an Adams Arms . Either is a good rifle you just need to find one that you are comfortable paying for and then buy ammo and magazines along with all the other accessories that are available once you enter the AR world. Good luck.

No kidding.  Those IC models with just about all the bells-and-whistles look like a great buy at $1600.  I believe those rifles had been selling from most sources at $2000-$2400 depending on some options.

I'm down to one DI gun and a stable of Adams Arms piston guns. I have shot PWS in addition to the Adams guns and the Adams short stroke allows a few more tuning options  to set the rifle up for your intended shooting application. I mostly shoot 3-Gun with my AR's so for me, the major advantages the Adams system are the melonited barrel, the melonite or PVD coated (Lifecoat) carrier and the available low mass bolt carrier.

The Adams "Lifecoat" bolt carrier group cleans up with a dry paper towel, it's THAT easy to clean and worth every last penny. After 500 rounds a week shooting, I really don't have to spend more than 5 minutes wiping down and relubing the carrier before a major match. Or if I'm pressed for time, I can just add a few drops of oil and still hardly have to do ANY cleaning after another 500 rounds the next week. The low mass carrier reduces the recoil impulse for me such that the rifle doesn't even wiggle after firing. Just a nice, light impulse for quick follow up shots. A good muzzle break will contribute more to felt recoil reduction and will mitigate muzzle rise more than a low mass BCG, but I prefer shooting with both tuned together with my own reloads.

I believe Adams still has their competition upper (Blem) on sale now. After 3 blemished purchases from Adams, I'm convinced they have elves doing their inspections. It took me about a week to find the slight discoloration on the finish of one of my blemished uppers, mostly because it was faint and less than the size of a primer.

Part 1
Building my own AR could be an interesting project.
As per my understating, only lower is FFL item, other items I can buy without FFL dealer.
Unfortunately I am not planning to build my AR for the following reasons:

Finger pointing.
I am in IT and in some cases, we need to use multiple vendors to deliver a solution.
Everything is fine till everything is fine, as soon as something is broken Vendor A points at Vendor B.
Also could be an issue with warranty unless it was installed by certified gunsmith.

Knowledge.
As part-time hobby, I am building workstations for small office(s).
I am building one or two workstations per month.
I have been doing this for years, it is easy process and I have enough knowledge to build proper systems.
In order to build my own AR, I need to establish my knowledge base.
It takes time, and I do not see myself in building AR business.

Partially done that and it is time consuming and exhausting.
I have two shotguns Remington 870 and Mossberg JMPro.
I am 6.2, my LOP 15 ¼.
Standard LOP for shotgun between 13 ½ and 14.
An extra inch makes a huge difference.
It took long time to find proper stock.
I had to try : stock extensions, cheek rise, tactical stock, and montecarlo stock.
Research, try, return / sell -> rinse and repeat.
By the way, I had the same issues with one AR that was purchase during crime bill.
That AR has solid stock, on every trigger pull, the charging handle was touching my nose.
It was not smacking just touching, but still undesirable.

Part 2

You don't know what you don't know.
You need to use a platform for sometime in order to find out what you like or dislike.

All, thanks for your inputs, I am going to continue with my research.
I really liked how Tulbann explained Adams Arms and Keith1980 had follow up question.

Maybe somebody can explain to benefits of LWRC vs PWS vs xxx brand.
Another Question PWS has long stroke piston, vs other brands.
If long stroke piston is really great(less moving parts, proven by AK, why everybody else makes short stroke)

For example: LWRC has fluted barrels, does it really works or just marketing move to have eye candy?
And will I benefit or this feature really helps if you are doing magazine dumps?

I will be waiting for Vegas show, should be some new models or upgrades.

For example :
Ruger introduced an update to the SR-556 Takedown that will be at the SHOT Show.
The new gun uses a KeyMod rail instead of the heavy quad-rail

I am sorry about long post, I am trying to explain what I am looking for.

An adjustable stock is a must for a first rifle unless you have access to a place that can professionally fit a rifle to you and determine the proper length of pull. Proper fit is just as important as proper technique for shooting. I've had good luck with a Magpul STR but I may be switching to a Luth MBA this coming season. There are PLENTY of good options though. See is your local gun shop will let you feel different rifles with different stocks.

Long stroke pistons physically link the operating rod to the bolt carrier in one solid piece. The operating rod therefore moves with the BCG in a "long stroke". Short stroke piston op rods act on the bolt carrier for a small distance, typically less than an inch, to cycle the bolt carrier. This is personal preference, but to me the recoil impulse of a short stroke pistol feels better in general likely due to less reciprocating mass in the carrier.

Barrel fluting reduces the weight of a barrel although there are other extremely minor benefits. I prefer using lightweight profile barrels rather than a heavier profile barrel that has been fluted as a lighter profile will end up being MUCH lighter in the end. There is an entire thread about lightweight rifles under the topic Light Rifles if you want to read about rifles on a diet. I tend to have random people at the range shooting my rifle to give it a feel. Youngsters and smaller framed people DEFINITELY prefer holding and shooting my sub 8 lb 3-Gun rifle compared to my over 10 lb heavy rifle. Pencil and ultra-light profiles have become very popular in 3-Gun recently as well because they are simply easier to move and shoot with.

Good luck in the search!

I have some opinions I'd like to throw in:

I won't believe LWRC's spiral/flute barrels offers me potential benefits until I see a heat map.  I want to see how much and how fast heat is absorbed during fire, and how fast heat is dissipated when resting.  It might cool faster because of less mass, but it also might heat up faster too.  The barrel is lighter, but I don't have the opportunity to prove what that's worth.


I suspect the short stroke piston is better with full auto for accuracy.  Not sure if the long/short stroke is going to make much difference if you are taking time to re-aim between shots.  I'm also trying to remember if the short stroke or long stroke had advantages if used with a suppressor or for different gas pressure adjustments.


I fear there is too much variety in piston designs, and not sure which designs will still be around.

I have Sig, POF and PWS guns. Hands down the PWS is the one I grab the most. It is the lightest and softest shooting AR I have ever shot. The others are very great guns but the balance and adjustability of the PWS gas system make for an extremely nice shooting gun.

I have been building custom Piston guns for many years. My last gun was a MUCH lighter version of the Adams Arms 3 gun competion rifle.

I used a Syrac 18 position adjustable gas block that weighs a small fraction of any other piston gas block. Only down side is that I has to machine the supplied bolt carrier to be a light weight version since Syrac has not released theirs yet.
I used the SAME Voodoo 16.5" rifle gas barrel as Adams Arms used,  which i think is one of the best barrels money can buy. VERY light. My build was 6.1 lbs with a red dot optic. I did use a 6.5 ounce 14 inch Carbon Fiber hand guard. That is where you save your weight.

But I digress,....

If you are not a builder, then there is only one clear choice...the Adams Arms 16.5" C.O.R. Ultra Lite Rifle (well MY rifle is 6lbs and theirs is over 7 lbs. I win the 'Ultralight' part!)
http://www.adamsarms.net/16-cor-ultra-lite-rifle

You MUST get the 16.5" with the rifle length gas system. The resulting recoil and muzzle flip is almost magically non existent. Talk about FUN TO SHOOT!
DO NOT  puss out and get the cheaper mid length version. DO NOT DO THAT!!!  Get the 16.5" rifle gas or go home.

The industry has never made an out-of -the-box AR-15 that suited my needs, so I build my own. Its easy for me since I am quite experienced.

BUT, if I HAD to buy a ready made AR-15, this Adams Arms would be IT!. It doesn't need much. I would put a BAD type lever on it (by Tactical Link) optics like the new Primary Arms 50k hour red dot or their 1-6x ACSS or their 1000 dollar 1-8X ACSS. The new Trijicon MRO is pretty sweet too.

I think you have 4 gas settings (not 18 like the Syrac) which is limiting but workable.
The barrel is an insane design. But it just plain works...WELL out to 600 yards dinging steel time after time. See James Yeager's EIGHT part video on this rifle. He and his crew drooled over it big time.

also this:
http://www.defensereview.com/adams-arms-cor-competition-optic-ready-16-5-ultra-lite-ar-15-upper-receiverlightweight-tactical-gas-piston-ar-carbine-with-hiperfire-hipertouch-24c-match-trigger-and-diamondhead-d-45-integrated/

The gun is a bargain actually. It comes with what I think is the best trigger on the planet...a Hyperfire 24C. You MUST watch the numerous videos on this. I swear the red "shoe" that comes with the trigger becomes such a part of you that no other trigger will feel "right" after your 24C!

Bro, dont even blink. Get the Adams Arms  COR 16.5" and have a lifetime rifle that will never be obsolete...ever.

thanks for the info what about barrett rec7? it;s in the same price range as LWRC or PWS but it;s below 6 pounds

rec 7 is about 2000 plus,
if youre doing basic shooting, ill suggest a sig 516,anything from adams, rugers 556, if you want to build you can try a fxon upper w your own lower, or even a sig 556 which is rugged as hell with a good piston system. expensive isnt always the best but i own and shoot a load of piston guns, once theyre set up, just shoot em and punch the bore before you fire for safety purposes.
HTH

There are a lot of choices from your list, all of them are good. One not on the list I really like is the POF Puritan, lower price than the others. I have not had any problems with mine and it comes with  a really good trigger. I have an LMT and a Scar also, The main advantage of the POF is it is a little lighter. POF is a company you either love or hate, I have not had any problems with my Puritan in 556 or my POF in 308. Just another choice. Good luck.

I'm DI through and through but if I got a piston gun it would be a PWS. They are reliable and soft shooting.

I bought the PWS MK16 and it is a keeper. Soft shooting, no muzzle rise, accurate and balanced well. I will be in the market down the road for LWRC Six8.

lwrc

proven design, used in combat ops overseas, great company, well made, fantastic barrels that are accurate and long lasting

A3 is my favorite of the lot fyi

If you like new tech, try Faxon's ARAK-21 AR-15 upper receiver.  There're some good deals on Gunbroker.com http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=arak-21 or http://www.guncalifornia.com

Check out these reviews:
https://youtu.be/jOLlraLVDHw
https://youtu.be/xkS7YP1Bs84
https://youtu.be/xfQT83_3IXQ
https://youtu.be/TtVijHGNX3M

I would go for a LWRC if I was buying a factory piston gun in FDE with the IC flavor.

thanks for the info ARAK-21 looks interesting.
hopefully new executive order does not impact market much.

barrett rec7 gen 2 flyweight only 5.1 pounds and very limited reviews on web, anybody experienced / tried those?

Don't forget the Barrett REC 7 and Stag Arms Model 8 series

barrett rec7 gen 2 flyweight only 5.1 pounds and very limited reviews on web, anybody experienced / tried those?

Build a weapon around the AA kit.  There is no better way to learn the in's and out's of an AR15 than to built it.  Plus, you can take pride in that it was all (aside from manufacturing) you.  It can better represent what you want because you can purchase the parts you want.  When it comes to drop in kits, nothing is better suited, or has more commonality with our inferior DI brothers than the Adams Arms kit.  This is perfect because commonly replaced parts (bolt, barrel, upper, rails) can be replaced at will and Bolt Carriers, ETC can be purchased at many MANY retailers.

I own an LMT, shot a couple mags through the POF, LWRC, and finally an AA.

The AA was the 14.5" Tactical Evo upper with their super compatible rail system and I was blown away.

My LMT 12" is one hell of a weapon.  AR people get the jitters when they find out I own an LMT, AND it's piston (either anger jitters, or excited jitters) and I cannot justify what it cost me.  I can't.  There is no noticeable differences in accuracy between these companies IMO.  Granted none of the shots were fired in anger, or at Camp Pendleton M1A circle jerk shoot off, but after owning this LMT for a little over a year now I have a few revelations.  

1.  I love it.
2.  It was too expensive.
3.  I would be just as happy with an Adams Arms 7.5-11" upper either built or bought.
4.  If SHTF I would STILL grab my trusty FN M16 clone before wasting weight on anything else.
5.  I would not own an LWRC. It's like my LMT, but my buddy had even more regret than I had over what he paid compared to an Adams Arms kit.

I don't work for Adams Arms, but I wish I did.

The 5.1 pounds got my attention. I looked on Barrett's web site but could not find anything to confirm the weight. Anyone have a link ?

Page 8 here.

https://www.barrett.net/pdfs/2015_Product_Brochures.pdf

Thanks.
So at 5.1 pounds it is either the flyweight or SBR. I think I am interested in the flyweight.  5.1 pounds for a 16' is appealing to me and Barrett's quality to boot.

PWS !!!

I have a basic Adams Arms government profile with carbine length gas system. I have ran it through two rifle courses and the round count is around 2,800 I have shot everything from Tula, Privi, American Eagle HP, 855,193 etc. I have had zero weapon stoppages, and cleaned once Right at 1,000 rounds. I am very impressed with this rifle, I only paid 580 blemished from Buds I can't beat it!

+1

You overlooked Windham Weaponry. These guys are from the old Bushmaster place and they build great DI ARs. You can get their SRC and an Osprey OPS416 piston kit for less than most piston rifles. I have one of their SRCs and I love it. Great quality, accurate and WW has superb customer service and free tech advice.

 
 

I have had an ADCOR BEAR for years now (they have since re branded the rifle the Elite-556 whatever) Its a great gun and a piston system that I feel deserves more recognition then it seems to get most of the time. Give them a look, might like what you see. You can also get them as just an upper and put together your own lower, which might save you some money.