Seems like not much love for LWRC - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Seems like not much love for LWRC

Posted: 11/14/2015 9:29:18 AM EDT

I no they are at the top but people seem to aim a little lower and get something else and I don't see much input on LWRC . I have a friend who has a M6A2 with over 30,000 down range and hardly ever cleans it most of it Govt issue ammo . Fire away .

Posted: 11/14/2015 9:45:02 AM EDT

[#1]

The lgs I use to work at was a lwrc dealer so we had some of their staff at the shop all the time along with everything they sold. Nice stuff , but I never felt the need to spend that kind of money on an AR.

Posted: 11/14/2015 10:42:50 AM EDT

[#2]

I don't support paul leighter wise.

Posted: 11/14/2015 11:03:09 AM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:
I don't support paul leighter wise.

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In January, 2008, about a year and a half after Leitner-Wise was canned, and so about two years after the management buyout, management sold out to the owners of another defense contractor (and one which made some parts for LWRC), Matech. (The companies didn’t merge, some Matech owners bought LWRC as a going concern). LWRC relocated in Q2 2008 to Cambridge, Maryland and was renamed LWRC International.

Posted: 11/14/2015 1:33:15 PM EDT

[#4]

I have a M6A2-S and love it...awesome rifle. However, I didn't have one until they did their price reduction move this year. I just couldn't afford to drop $2500 on an AR no matter how good. I feel the same way about something like a SCAR17. Unless you have sacks of money falling out of your safe, there are quite a few more affordable AR's that you can trust your life to. I respect many of the high dollar weapon platforms out there, I just don't have those dollars. It may not be a lack of love for LWRC...or some others...it may be a lack of money...LOL!

Posted: 11/14/2015 3:09:08 PM EDT

[#5]

Really like the lower. The complete rifle? It's put together well. Just a lot of money for what you get.

Best I've seen on an IC-A5 is ~$2050 right now. I just don't see it as $450 better than a PWS Mod 1.

I like the PWS weight distribution better. The action has less parts to break. I end up saying why pay more for something I like a little less.

Posted: 11/14/2015 6:15:12 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
I don't support paul leighter wise.

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He hasn't been the owner of LWRCI for many years now.

Posted: 11/14/2015 6:19:55 PM EDT

[#7]

I don't think there is a lot of love for LWRC, it seems people have an issue as to the price point. I personally own 3 LWRCs and love them all. I think they are worth the prices they get. I have friends who own less expensive brands and at first thought I was spending too much until they held it and shot it. They then understood the price point and the QC of the product. Not everyone can afford them either, like anything else.....the higher the price point, the narrower the demographics become.

Posted: 11/14/2015 6:56:23 PM EDT

[#8]

I plan to pick up a 45apc PCC when they're released. All of their stuff is nice, I just could never justify the cost of their 5.56 guns with all the other options out there.

Posted: 11/14/2015 7:11:10 PM EDT

[#9]

Their ARs are beautiful, great fit and finish and they run super

As stated as good as they are they are inferior to PWS as a carbine which is lighter and better balanced.
If you sit at a bench that does not matter but running drills and fast shooting the PWS is the better AR, IMO

While the MSRP is $450 more for the IC the actual selling prices run about $700.00 less for a PWS MK1 Mod 1 and with that I can have a Geissele trigger and an EOTech on the PWS for what the base LWRC IC runs.

It is just too much difference in price for what is, again IMO, the PWS, a better carbine.

That does not keep me from drooling over those beautiful LWRC's but I am not a gun nut, I am a shooter

Posted: 11/14/2015 8:38:38 PM EDT

[#10]

Completely agree, beautiful is also how I’d describe them, especially the fluted IC line. Reliable too.

Those were actually street prices I quoted ($1576 PWS and $2044 LWRC) but I would agree the LWRC is usually more than that. Although, I have found if you’re patient in this current market, $2050 - $2200 is possible.

For me it’s not about the money. I have a SCAR17, was ~$2700 and I think they’re way overpriced but I like what you get from it in .308, so I bought it.

IC's a very nice gun, I could’ve had one for about the price of a PWS during the T-1 sale. I just like the PWS better for several reasons (simpler design, recoil impulse, lighter, better balance) so I still didn’t buy it.

Posted: 11/14/2015 10:26:11 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I no they are at the top but people seem to aim a little lower and get something else and I don't see much input on LWRC . I have a friend who has a M6A2 with over 30,000 down range and hardly ever cleans it most of it Govt issue ammo . Fire away .

View Quote

Are you considering buying a particular model LWRC? Depending on which model, there are some pretty good buys out there right now.

Posted: 11/15/2015 7:22:58 AM EDT

[#12]

I did get the LWRC M6 A2 with 14 inch barrel new in the and came with a blue force sling 1500 out the door it has the updated bolt and carrier looks good shoots good . I put a Leopold 1x4 fire dot scope and mount on this M6A2 I love it but it does recoil different than my Colt guns. I got mine from Warrior Ridge gun shop in PA . Teddy has one with 30,000 rounds down range never had to fix it he had it to the sandbox doing contractor somewhere. I was going to sell it to get a new FN collector series M4 they are around 1500 also .

Posted: 11/15/2015 8:46:10 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Completely agree, beautiful is also how I’d describe them, especially the fluted IC line. Reliable too.

Those were actually street prices I quoted ($1576 PWS and $2044 LWRC) but I would agree the LWRC is usually more than that. Although, I have found if you’re patient in this current market, $2050 - $2200 is possible.

For me it’s not about the money. I have a SCAR17, was ~$2700 and I think they’re way overpriced but I like what you get from it in .308, so I bought it.

IC's a very nice gun, I could’ve had one for about the price of a PWS during the T-1 sale. I just like the PWS better for several reasons (simpler design, recoil impulse, lighter, better balance) so I still didn’t buy it.

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I'd agree.....I have one of the 500 limited edition models along with a 16" REPR with fluted barrel.

16" REPR

Six8 UCIW

Posted: 11/15/2015 10:03:48 AM EDT

[#14]

See, exactly...gorgeous work. All fine pick ups. I’ve really admired the attention to detail and quality manufacturing process from current management.

Also appreciate their commitment to 6.8 SPC II too. I don’t know that it’ll ever have broad acceptance without mil or LEO widely adopting it but the dedicated investment is great to see and has helped to expand the niche.

ETA: The Six8 is a different discussion for me. Sure, it's off a contract but for me, that's a really tempting offering. I like that Federal got on board too with a self defense round. What's your opinion on the UCIW after being hands on with it for awhile? Not much feedback on it (or the carbines) out there.

Posted: 11/15/2015 10:24:36 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
See, exactly...gorgeous work. All fine pick ups. I’ve really admired the attention to detail and quality manufacturing process from current management.

Also appreciate their commitment to 6.8 SPC II too. I don’t know that it’ll ever have broad acceptance without mil or LEO widely adopting it but the dedicated investment is great to see and has helped to expand the niche.

ETA: The Six8 is a different discussion for me. Sure, it's off a contract but for me, that's a really tempting offering. I like that Federal got on board too with a self defense round. What's your opinion on the UCIW after being hands on with it for awhile? Not much feedback on it (or the carbines) out there.

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I love it. It's a beast in a way. I definetely recommend adding the Griffin Armament blast shield, world of difference in muzzle rise and concussion. LEOs are adopting it, slowly but happening. I know of two different SWAT teams that are now using them. The REPR & UCIW both came from Modern Outfitters. The REPR is Dark Bronze. The UCIW is MWCOD Gray, (Modern Warfare Call Of Duty). Everyone who has some version of the Six8 line raves about them. I haven't heard a negative comment yet about that platform. Everyone who has shot mine enjoys it and

for a reaction.

Posted: 11/15/2015 11:26:14 AM EDT

[#16]

Got it, I'd go carbine length myself. Lots of potential there.

$1600 for Six8 SPRs (14.7", 16", black, FDE, pat brown, ODG) at CDNN right now.

It'd be nice if LWRC's investment recoup through contract fulfillment let its retailers offer strong Six8 pricing like that all the time. Would only help broaden the market. But I'm stating the obvious. Bottom line, good time to buy.

Posted: 11/15/2015 5:21:06 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Got it, I'd go carbine length myself. Lots of potential there.

$1600 for Six8 SPRs (14.7", 16", black, FDE, pat brown, ODG) at CDNN right now.

It'd be nice if LWRC's investment recoup through contract fulfillment let its retailers offer strong Six8 pricing like that all the time. Would only help broaden the market. But I'm stating the obvious. Bottom line, good time to buy.

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Is that price for the new Six8 or the older model? That seems awfully cheap for the new version. I'd confirm what model exactly before purchasing.

Posted: 11/15/2015 5:22:30 PM EDT

[#18]

I wanted one for a long time until I personally witnessed one fail at a training class. The spring cup broke in two pieces and one of the piston rods and spring came out inside the handguard. The rifle was a single shot after that. He used the instructors AR the rest of the class. Since then I've seen one more fail in the same way and 1 broken bolt. I've also seen excessive wear in the upper receiver from the cam pin. Also buffer tube wear from carrier tilt. From my experience it seems like the guns destroy themselves when used. Not trying to bash the company just giving my personal experience with the guns.

Posted: 11/15/2015 5:41:53 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Is that price for the new Six8 or the older model? That seems awfully cheap for the new version. I'd confirm what model exactly before purchasing.

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Quoted:

Is that price for the new Six8 or the older model? That seems awfully cheap for the new version. I'd confirm what model exactly before purchasing.

Absolutely, SKUs are correct too. Here's one (all the other lengths and colors I listed above are there too): SIX8 16 SPR Black. Have to call for pricing.

Six8 A2s are $100 less.

Quoted:
I wanted one for a long time until I personally witnessed one fail at a training class. The spring cup broke in two pieces and one of the piston rods and spring came out inside the handguard. The rifle was a single shot after that. He used the instructors AR the rest of the class. Since then I've seen one more fail in the same way and 1 broken bolt. I've also seen excessive wear in the upper receiver from the cam pin. Also buffer tube wear from carrier tilt. From my experience it seems like the guns destroy themselves when used. Not trying to bash the company just giving my personal experience with the guns.

Yes, I do prefer a simpler design myself. Six8 would be a fun gun though, so my requirements change a little.

Posted: 11/15/2015 5:46:54 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Absolutely, SKUs are correct too. Here's one (all the other lengths and colors I listed above are there too): SIX8 16 SPR Black. Have to call for pricing.

Six8 A2s are $100 less.

Yes, I do prefer a simpler design myself. Six8 would be a fun gun though, so my requirements change a little.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is that price for the new Six8 or the older model? That seems awfully cheap for the new version. I'd confirm what model exactly before purchasing.

Absolutely, SKUs are correct too. Here's one (all the other lengths and colors I listed above are there too): SIX8 16 SPR Black. Have to call for pricing.

Six8 A2s are $100 less.

Quoted:
I wanted one for a long time until I personally witnessed one fail at a training class. The spring cup broke in two pieces and one of the piston rods and spring came out inside the handguard. The rifle was a single shot after that. He used the instructors AR the rest of the class. Since then I've seen one more fail in the same way and 1 broken bolt. I've also seen excessive wear in the upper receiver from the cam pin. Also buffer tube wear from carrier tilt. From my experience it seems like the guns destroy themselves when used. Not trying to bash the company just giving my personal experience with the guns.

Yes, I do prefer a simpler design myself. Six8 would be a fun gun though, so my requirements change a little.

If you have the money, I'd get it then. That's a good deal.

Posted: 11/15/2015 6:02:21 PM EDT

[#21]

Couldn't agree more.

Posted: 11/15/2015 6:33:11 PM EDT

[#22]

Let us know which one you get.

Posted: 11/15/2015 6:43:36 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I wanted one for a long time until I personally witnessed one fail at a training class. The spring cup broke in two pieces and one of the piston rods and spring came out inside the handguard. The rifle was a single shot after that. He used the instructors AR the rest of the class. Since then I've seen one more fail in the same way and 1 broken bolt. I've also seen excessive wear in the upper receiver from the cam pin. Also buffer tube wear from carrier tilt. From my experience it seems like the guns destroy themselves when used. Not trying to bash the company just giving my personal experience with the guns.

View Quote

Sounds like that was using the older spring cup design. Their most recent design is a small metal piece and not the longer black one.

I have thousands pushed down my IC-E and have no wear in my buffer tube from carrier tilt and the inside of the upper receiver looks to be the same as what my PWS did and what owners of AA piston kits observe.

Posted: 11/15/2015 9:31:34 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

Sounds like that was using the older spring cup design. Their most recent design is a small metal piece and not the longer black one.

I have thousands pushed down my IC-E and have no wear in my buffer tube from carrier tilt and the inside of the upper receiver looks to be the same as what my PWS did and what owners of AA piston kits observe.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wanted one for a long time until I personally witnessed one fail at a training class. The spring cup broke in two pieces and one of the piston rods and spring came out inside the handguard. The rifle was a single shot after that. He used the instructors AR the rest of the class. Since then I've seen one more fail in the same way and 1 broken bolt. I've also seen excessive wear in the upper receiver from the cam pin. Also buffer tube wear from carrier tilt. From my experience it seems like the guns destroy themselves when used. Not trying to bash the company just giving my personal experience with the guns.

Sounds like that was using the older spring cup design. Their most recent design is a small metal piece and not the longer black one.

I have thousands pushed down my IC-E and have no wear in my buffer tube from carrier tilt and the inside of the upper receiver looks to be the same as what my PWS did and what owners of AA piston kits observe.

Everything breaks at one point or another. I maintain my rifles probably better than most but I do beat the Sh!t out of them. I have an entire extra set of replacement internal parts for peace of mind on my Ldub. Never had to use them. I get free ammo sort of, and shoot about 500 per month through them. I have an older M6A2 and one of the original 500 IC-E's. I love them both and have had zero issues related to their design.

SOS

Posted: 11/16/2015 6:37:42 PM EDT

[#25]

Kind of hard to post a lot on the rifle. Lots of mine works, no issues, great rifle make for quiet forum fodder. Pws may get a little more action for it's non spring thingy and Adams Arms take the price point. I like them all.

Posted: 11/17/2015 2:14:29 AM EDT

[#26]

I have to agree with all the above. I have two uppers manufactured by LWRCi (used) and love 'em. But, I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a complete system - based on "bang for the buck" motivations. They're a fine firearm, but when you get down to brass tacks, if you purchase a quality AR as a base, that's a lot of ammo, magazines and/or accessories you can buy for the price of a complete LWRCi rifle.

My uppers are an M6-SL and M6IC. They sit atop simple lowers that perform flawlessly.

Posted: 11/17/2015 5:31:41 PM EDT

[#27]

My IC. Also got a m6a2.

LWRC is definitely on the higher price end. However, I am not a fan of the newer model features.

The uppers are not compatible with aftermarket rails/handguards. They use a proprietary rail bolt interface instead of offering keymod or mlok. I don't like the QD sling attachment with the picatinny section - too bulky and the rail section is useless where I have it on the handguard.

Also, their spiral fluting is ugly. Glad I found one with an unfluted barrel.

On the plus side, the lower is fully ambi.

Posted: 11/17/2015 5:44:44 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Let us know which one you get.

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It was tempting but I bought a bunch of Polish AKM barrels for about the same amount instead.

Every month I knock a few more things off the list ahead of the election. Trying to prioritize what could dry up first.

I did call CDNN though. Prices were accurate (as of yesterday) for anyone interested.

Posted: 11/18/2015 8:49:13 AM EDT

[#29]

My LWRC 5.56 PSD is probably my favorite rifle. I take it out the most, everyone likes to shoot it cause its small. And I didn't pay anywhere near MSRP.

Much cheaper to buy the upper and lower separately then pop them together.

Posted: 11/18/2015 12:25:22 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

It was tempting but I bought a bunch of Polish AKM barrels for about the same amount instead.

Every month I knock a few more things off the list ahead of the election. Trying to prioritize what could dry up first.

I did call CDNN though. Prices were accurate (as of yesterday) for anyone interested.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Let us know which one you get.

It was tempting but I bought a bunch of Polish AKM barrels for about the same amount instead.

Every month I knock a few more things off the list ahead of the election. Trying to prioritize what could dry up first.

I did call CDNN though. Prices were accurate (as of yesterday) for anyone interested.

Yeah, I did the CDNN thing earlier this year where they had excellent prices on the upper-only LWRC deals. At that time they had a great deal on a complete POF lower...click, click...complete ready-to-go rifle. I like building an AR, but some of these deals are real bargains for the quality involved. A complete M6A2-Stretch, mid-length gas model upper with a complete POF lower for a total of $1200 is a darned good deal. And those uppers have the improved one-piece bolt interface at the op-rod location.

Posted: 11/18/2015 2:38:35 PM EDT

[#31]

Absolutely, it's been a nice two year run on prices. Music stops at some point but for now, I'm taking advantage, best I can.

Posted: 11/22/2015 12:54:38 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
My LWRC 5.56 PSD is probably my favorite rifle. I take it out the most, everyone likes to shoot it cause its small. And I didn't pay anywhere near MSRP.

Much cheaper to buy the upper and lower separately then pop them together.

View Quote

True, though if you want LWRC's ambi lower, there's no way around that.

Posted: 11/23/2015 5:38:24 PM EDT

[#33]

I recently fingered an IC PSD. I have no piston ARs, but that could change. The thing is sweet, and I have been looking a PDW type weapons. price is the only setback, and I would probably need another can.

Posted: 11/28/2015 4:48:49 PM EDT

[#34]

I am seriously considering the Six8 SPR though I wish it would have been Six5.

So what rail sections attach to the forearm?

Posted: 11/28/2015 4:53:08 PM EDT

[#35]

No hate here, just can't afford them.

Posted: 11/28/2015 5:06:31 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
I no they are at the top but people seem to aim a little lower and get something else and I don't see much input on LWRC . I have a friend who has a M6A2 with over 30,000 down range and hardly ever cleans it most of it Govt issue ammo . Fire away .

View Quote

I love LWRC. But I can't afford their stuff.

Posted: 11/28/2015 7:04:01 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am seriously considering the Six8 SPR though I wish it would have been Six5.

So what rail sections attach to the forearm?

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They come with a few rail sections that bolt on, extras or full length sections available separately.

Posted: 11/30/2015 10:38:55 PM EDT

[#38]

I owned 3 at one point and now just one, the m6A3 and think it's the best of the bunch. I love the rifle, accurate, reliable, well made, I can control the gas and feels real nice in the pocket

Posted: 12/1/2015 2:04:10 AM EDT

[#39]

CDNN has some great deals!

Posted: 12/1/2015 9:25:20 PM EDT

[#40]

I love the LWRC IC lower, pairs nicely with PWS uppers.

Posted: 12/1/2015 10:12:14 PM EDT

[#41]

That gets expensive pretty quick but it is a strong combo.

Posted: 12/5/2015 6:06:37 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
However, I am not a fan of the newer model features.

The uppers are not compatible with aftermarket rails/handguards. They use a proprietary rail bolt interface instead of offering keymod or mlok. I don't like the QD sling attachment with the picatinny section - too bulky and the rail section is useless where I have it on the handguard

View Quote

This bears repeating. I actually cut the rail seconds off of a few of my QD cups then had them cerakoted. LWRC seems to have an odd non-acknowledgement of why they're not trying MLOK or Keymod. They also don't seem to want to try anything direct-attach with their screw on system.

I believe one or two other manufacturers use the same screw-on rail spacing that LWRC does.

Posted: 12/6/2015 12:42:22 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

This bears repeating. I actually cut the rail seconds off of a few of my QD cups then had them cerakoted. LWRC seems to have an odd non-acknowledgement of why they're not trying MLOK or Keymod. They also don't seem to want to try anything direct-attach with their screw on system.

I believe one or two other manufacturers use the same screw-on rail spacing that LWRC does.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
However, I am not a fan of the newer model features.

The uppers are not compatible with aftermarket rails/handguards. They use a proprietary rail bolt interface instead of offering keymod or mlok. I don't like the QD sling attachment with the picatinny section - too bulky and the rail section is useless where I have it on the handguard

This bears repeating. I actually cut the rail seconds off of a few of my QD cups then had them cerakoted. LWRC seems to have an odd non-acknowledgement of why they're not trying MLOK or Keymod. They also don't seem to want to try anything direct-attach with their screw on system.

I believe one or two other manufacturers use the same screw-on rail spacing that LWRC does.

LWRC actually commented about this on their own forums. To paraphrase, claimed the weight savings wasn't enough of a benefit to move to M-Lok and that their current rail system is just as useful.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Seems like not much love for LWRC

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