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Posted: 2/19/2015 3:12:01 PM EDT
[#1]
I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week.
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Posted: 2/19/2015 6:57:15 PM EDT
[#2]
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. serious sauce? pics? 
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Posted: 2/19/2015 7:10:54 PM EDT
[#3]
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. Sub MOA at what distance. I can believe they are usable for 60K. I can't believe the pattern at 100 yds hasn't opened up after about 10K rounds, unless PWS is forging their barrels from Unobtanium. |
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Posted: 2/19/2015 10:36:25 PM EDT
[#4]
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. LOL if you say so. Sub MOA at 5 feet? |
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Posted: 2/20/2015 5:58:43 PM EDT
[#5]
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LOL if you say so. Sub MOA at 5 feet? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. LOL if you say so. Sub MOA at 5 feet? Come out to Range 30 in Moyock and I can show you. |
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Posted: 2/21/2015 1:01:39 PM EDT
[#6]
There's a fellow who goes by the handle 'DMack' that has a PWS Mk. 114 Mod 0 piston gun with a documented 38,000-rounds as of December '2014. Possibly more by now? I don't know if the gun still shoots MOA, but he says it still shoots tight 'combat accuracy'. You can read his long-term Test & Evaluation over at 'The Sniper's Hide'.
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Posted: 2/21/2015 1:12:38 PM EDT
[#7]
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Come out to Range 30 in Moyock and I can show you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. LOL if you say so. Sub MOA at 5 feet? Come out to Range 30 in Moyock and I can show you. BS |
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Posted: 2/21/2015 1:50:25 PM EDT
[#8]
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Come out to Range 30 in Moyock and I can show you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. LOL if you say so. Sub MOA at 5 feet? Come out to Range 30 in Moyock and I can show you. Just participate in the challenge and I'll take you off The Wall of Claim. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html&page=1#i480 |
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Posted: 2/21/2015 7:33:49 PM EDT
[#9]
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There's a fellow who goes by the handle 'DMack' that has a PWS Mk. 114 Mod 0 piston gun with a documented 38,000-rounds as of December '2014. Possibly more by now? I don't know if the gun still shoots MOA, but he says it still shoots tight 'combat accuracy'. You can read his long-term Test & Evaluation over at 'The Sniper's Hide'. Combat accuracy is believable. I have range beater pistols with over 15,000 down the tube that are still combat accurate. Sub-MOA they are not. Not even with premium ammunition. |
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Posted: 2/21/2015 9:47:42 PM EDT
[#10]
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Just participate in the challenge and I'll take you off The Wall of Claim. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html&page=1#i480 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. LOL if you say so. Sub MOA at 5 feet? Come out to Range 30 in Moyock and I can show you. Just participate in the challenge and I'll take you off The Wall of Claim. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html&page=1#i480 So you think that sending a random piece of paper with 5 targets on it is an accurate measure of someone's validity or a test of the accuracy of a barrel? |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 8:21:24 AM EDT
[#11]
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. BullShit.......I can believe it firing 5-6 MOA, but there is not way I can believe 60K rounds firing and still shoots sub MOA. |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 12:24:39 PM EDT
[#12]
I hate to interrupt all this testosterone slinging
 , however, 'DMack' shared the following on his "Ranger Proof" blog, (see link) as of July 17, '2012, "... In fact, this rifle has had over 23k rounds through it, since I started shooting it back in DEC '2010. I was able to turn this group with it, at 100 yards using Black Hills 77 Grain OTM. As you can see in the target, it still shoots sub one inch, even with such a high round count..."
BTW, it's a 10-round group! IMHO, 'DMack' has impeccable credentials and I believe him. He's an LEO trainer that uses his guns harder in a week than most of us will in a year. I don't know a lot about coatings, but I have to believe the 'PWS Isonite QPQ®' barrel coating must have something to do with the barrel longevity. http://rangerproof.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-07-19T14:25:00-04:00&max-results=7 Old_Navy |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 2:59:05 PM EDT
[#13]
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So you think that sending a random piece of paper with 5 targets on it is an accurate measure of someone's validity or a test of the accuracy of a barrel? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. LOL if you say so. Sub MOA at 5 feet? Come out to Range 30 in Moyock and I can show you. Just participate in the challenge and I'll take you off The Wall of Claim. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html&page=1#i480 So you think that sending a random piece of paper with 5 targets on it is an accurate measure of someone's validity or a test of the accuracy of a barrel? Its all about CONSISTENCY. Just because you can pull off a sub moa 3 shot group every once in a while doesn't make it a sub moa gun. Shoot 5, 5 shot groups that are all sub moa... then its a sub moa gun/barrel
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Posted: 2/22/2015 3:39:01 PM EDT
[#14]
I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology.
Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 3:43:30 PM EDT
[#15]
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I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 5:27:50 PM EDT
[#16]
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I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy While you may have good intentions, your post is even farther off track. The OP did ask a question, it may have been answered rather promptly, however, claims of 60K rounds fired from a barrel is utter BS. And yes, that sidetracked the conversation. While it's not a Melonite barrel, Pat Rogers #14 has 40k+ rounds fired. It is shooting 6 MOA,......cococcw claiming a 60k+ barrel will shoot sub MOA needs to put up or shut up! |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 5:49:44 PM EDT
[#17]
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If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 6:18:03 PM EDT
[#18]
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I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. LOL, you know noone is going to travel to shoot with you over some outlandish claim, but I know that its pretty simple to shoot 5 groups on a single piece of paper.... Yet its seems you arent even willing to do that... Just because you have an instructor cert, doesn't mean you cant spew bullshit. Seen it many times before... |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 6:35:53 PM EDT
[#19]
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I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. So you want me to get on a plane from KS so I can watch you supposedly shoot sub MOA groups with a barrel which has supposedly had 60k+ rounds through the pipe......like that was going to happen. I dare say even the folks at PWS would call bullshit on your claims. I think you left out the part where you were getting sub MOA with M855..........right? |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 9:03:55 PM EDT
[#20]
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LOL, you know noone is going to travel to shoot with you over some outlandish claim, but I know that its pretty simple to shoot 5 groups on a single piece of paper.... Yet its seems you arent even willing to do that... Just because you have an instructor cert, doesn't mean you cant spew bullshit. Seen it many times before... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. LOL, you know noone is going to travel to shoot with you over some outlandish claim, but I know that its pretty simple to shoot 5 groups on a single piece of paper.... Yet its seems you arent even willing to do that... Just because you have an instructor cert, doesn't mean you cant spew bullshit. Seen it many times before... You have exemplified that point. |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 9:22:42 PM EDT
[#21]
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You have exemplified that point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. LOL, you know noone is going to travel to shoot with you over some outlandish claim, but I know that its pretty simple to shoot 5 groups on a single piece of paper.... Yet its seems you arent even willing to do that... Just because you have an instructor cert, doesn't mean you cant spew bullshit. Seen it many times before... You have exemplified that point. Come on. A barrel with that mean rounds through it holding sub MOA... That's a bold statement. Especially if Pat Rogers dirty dozen guns are up to 6 MOA on less rounds... Bold statement indeed... |
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Posted: 2/22/2015 10:28:12 PM EDT
[#22]
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I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. Meh,....."Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30" Definitely going to be on my list of training centers to avoid. You made this bold statement......put up or shut up! Any normal shooter would be out shooting video and showing log books of said weapon, vs flapping his pie hole on a forum. With that being said,.....I'm done wasting time on you and your BS claims. |
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Posted: 2/23/2015 12:10:16 AM EDT
[#23]
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Meh,....."Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30" Definitely going to be on my list of training centers to avoid. You made this bold statement......put up or shut up! Any normal shooter would be out shooting video and showing log books of said weapon, vs flapping his pie hole on a forum. With that being said,.....I'm done wasting time on you and your BS claims. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. Meh,....."Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30" Definitely going to be on my list of training centers to avoid. You made this bold statement......put up or shut up! Any normal shooter would be out shooting video and showing log books of said weapon, vs flapping his pie hole on a forum. With that being said,.....I'm done wasting time on you and your BS claims. And you exemplified this point. |
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Posted: 2/23/2015 1:54:02 PM EDT
[#24]
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And you exemplified this point. You win, you are the king of the Internet. Maybe when you exceed ONE MILLION rounds fired, you show the holy grail barrrel! |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 12:46:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote from LWRC
"These barrels can take a lot more use and abuse than a standard barrel before any degradation in accuracy or loss of velocity. NiCorr™ surface conversion has proved more lubricious, harder wearing, more heat and corrosion resistant than the hard chrome normally used in the bore. Our barrels can handle 20,000 rounds before replacement, as compared to 6,000-10,000 rounds on a standard M4." |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:10:00 AM EDT
[#26]
I don't know if 60K rounds is real or not.
I try to be accurate in relaying my experiences and I know sometimes people exaggerate their stuff but the butt hurt suggests either do what someone who has no knowledge on if these claims are true or not or be crucified by the herd. I can understand saying something like: That seems unbelievable but I won't say its not possible. Would appreciate some proof as that would be nice blah blah. But to trash someone like a whiny little girl embarrasses both you and this forum. get a little dignity please. I have a MK114 Mod 1 and my older Mod 0. (And just picked up another Mod 0 on GB) The Mod 1 is my TEOWAKI, SHTF, Zombie Apocalypse gotto weapon and has less than 1K through it PWS replaced my upper for my Mod 0 in 2011 so for 2012, 2013, 2014 and just into 2015 or over 40 months I have put well over 20K and likely 25K+ through the upper and I have not had any reduction in accuracy. If you do not believe me and think I care, well you have me confused with someone else. Perhaps one reason I have not had a loss of accuracy is because the majority of my training is CQ drills and I do a lot of mag changes so load 7-10 rounds per mag and do at least one sometimes 2 changes per run and then let the barrel cool. The 2 most destructive things we do to barrels are heat and cleaning. Letting a barrel over heat repeatedly will accelerate wear and damage from over or aggressive cleaning will also reduce barrel life. Not trying to take sides just asking if you can't prove a claim is wrong be a bit nicer to our fellow arfer |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 2:41:20 PM EDT
[#27]
^^^ People are calling out obvious bullshit. Simple as that, to make a claim that it shoots sub MOA after 60k rounds is total bullshit.
The onus is on the one making the claim to prove it, he can't and apparently won't. I doubt he's ever shot a 1 MOA group to begin with. The 2 most destructive things we do to barrels are heat and cleaning. Letting a barrel over heat repeatedly will accelerate wear and damage from over or aggressive cleaning will also reduce barrel life. I guess the fact that he claims to have shot 10k in a week wouldn't lead to wear and tear....... |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 4:09:52 PM EDT
[#28]
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I don't know if 60K rounds is real or not. I try to be accurate in relaying my experiences and I know sometimes people exaggerate their stuff but the butt hurt suggests either do what someone who has no knowledge on if these claims are true or not or be crucified by the herd. I can understand saying something like: That seems unbelievable but I won't say its not possible. Would appreciate some proof as that would be nice blah blah. But to trash someone like a whiny little girl embarrasses both you and this forum. get a little dignity please. I have a MK114 Mod 1 and my older Mod 0. (And just picked up another Mod 0 on GB) The Mod 1 is my TEOWAKI, SHTF, Zombie Apocalypse gotto weapon and has less than 1K through it PWS replaced my upper for my Mod 0 in 2011 so for 2012, 2013, 2014 and just into 2015 or over 40 months I have put well over 20K and likely 25K+ through the upper and I have not had any reduction in accuracy. If you do not believe me and think I care, well you have me confused with someone else. Perhaps one reason I have not had a loss of accuracy is because the majority of my training is CQ drills and I do a lot of mag changes so load 7-10 rounds per mag and do at least one sometimes 2 changes per run and then let the barrel cool. The 2 most destructive things we do to barrels are heat and cleaning. Letting a barrel over heat repeatedly will accelerate wear and damage from over or aggressive cleaning will also reduce barrel life. Not trying to take sides just asking if you can't prove a claim is wrong be a bit nicer to our fellow arfer Simply demanding proof that Mr 60k rounds fired is unwilling to provide, Has nothing to do with "whiny little girls" has to do with calling bullshit for what it is. Been shooting the platform over thirty years now, I know a bullshit statement when I see it. PWS themselves have stated that 60K rounds out if a barrel COULD be possible, but they stated it would be near impossible to believe that it would shoot "sub MOA, at 100m" As for your little moderation in the matter, you call me or another a "whiny little girl" while trying to make peace on the forum? You, Sir, are a real piece of work. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 7:03:39 PM EDT
[#29]
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Simply demanding proof that Mr 60k rounds fired is unwilling to provide, Has nothing to do with "whiny little girls" has to do with calling bullshit for what it is. Been shooting the platform over thirty years now, I know a bullshit statement when I see it. PWS themselves have stated that 60K rounds out if a barrel COULD be possible, but they stated it would be near impossible to believe that it would shoot "sub MOA, at 100m" As for your little moderation in the matter, you call me or another a "whiny little girl" while trying to make peace on the forum? You, Sir, are a real piece of work. Oh stop your blubbering ya twit 
I was simply stating the truth as to how some sounded in putting a butt hurt on a guy. It could have been done with a little more class but sorry for offering an opinion as to exactly how you guys made it look I thought you were wanting the truth, guess not, go along with the mob or be attacked. Lighten up Francis 
Speaking of calling out BS. I am calling out Wulfmann, oh wait, that's me. Well, here's the scoop: I did a detailed history of my ammo use with my AR/M4s since I bought my first PWS MK114 (Now known as a Mod 0) Not allowing for unrecorded or unverifiable records I have determined I exaggerated on how many rounds are down the barrel of this MK114. I stated well over 20K maybe 25K but in fact careful examination reveals it was at least 15K and likely in the 17-18K area but 20K is not a correct answer and I apologize for my over statement. The lower has 20K as PWS replaced the upper after 6 months so this upper has been in constant use since Jan 2012 or over 3 years. I have not noticed any loss of accuracy but I have not taken it to the bench rest range in a long time. At some point I will run a comparison with all 3 PWS MK114s and post an honest assessment I realize if it is not what some want to hear i will receive a butt hurt however, I will know it is true and that is good enough for me I am aware that 20K is the more expected accurate life of a well taken care of barrel so I got lucky last week and found a low round count Mod 0 MK114 on GB for a grand shipped (BIN price) and just picked it up from my FFL so it will take over all drills and the older MK114 will be relegated to SD and a well deserved change to low round activity. I should note my primary load in 99% of the shooting in the MK114 has been a 55gr M193 with 25gr H335 (WC844) which is a slightly reduced load which should have reduced barrel wear while giving me the same point of aim as 26.3gr ( 26.3 duplicates IMI M193 velocities) + the majority of my drills are for fast shooting and mag changes so each mag has a varied load (7-8-9 or 10 rounds) so I can work constantly on faster mag changes and transitioning to side arms. I say this so one can see how running 15-18 rounds in a quick drill then allowing for barrel cooling increases the barrel life and might account for my good groups in this well used MK114 (as good as any of my other 8 AR well, 7 are M4s) Sir!!! You live in Illinois. That does not impress me as being one who can point fingers So, be nice. 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:58:13 AM EDT
[#30]
You win,........you are the all ok owing Oz, what do I know.
Yea, Illinois, not that impressive.......gotta go where the job puts ya. Temporary stop. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 7:59:09 AM EDT
[#31]
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Sub MOA at what distance. I can believe they are usable for 60K. I can't believe the pattern at 100 yds hasn't opened up after about 10K rounds, unless PWS is forging their barrels from Unobtanium. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got over 60K rounds through one of mine. Still sub MOA barrel. I've used it for teaching subgun courses where we've shot 10K+ rounds in a week. Sub MOA at what distance. I can believe they are usable for 60K. I can't believe the pattern at 100 yds hasn't opened up after about 10K rounds, unless PWS is forging their barrels from Unobtanium. I'll take sub-moa at any distance.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:42:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I'll sub-moa at any distance. 2000m is good for you? "Any" is so capacious word. 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:46:52 AM EDT
[#33]
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2000m is good for you? "Any" is so capacious word.
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Quoted:I'll take sub-moa at any distance. 2000m is good for you? "Any" is so capacious word.
moa being an angle and all that.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:37:26 PM EDT
[#34]
I just shot both Mod 0 Mk114s. They shot almost identical.
It is hard to say if there is much difference. The 15-20K barrel' EOtech reticle (512) is a bit easier to aim and it has a 2 stage enhanced Geissele while the -1K barrel (EO-516) has a Geissele 3gun trigger which IMO is a slight disadvantage when trying to shoot groups so it was not exact in comparison. I had not noticed any degradation of the 15-20K barrel in drills and IMO would have noticed when I take careful sniper close range shots if it was a bigger deal. Maybe I am on the verge of it starting to go but I don't thinks so As for today it was very windy so the 25 yard targets were easier to shoot for groups and compare. 10 shot 1/2"-5/8" is not target but with a 1X it is fine IMO A real test would be to use a scope and bi-pod but as I said I was interested in satisfying myself and I am sure this goes nowhere with the debate minded |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:43:59 PM EDT
[#35]
I was on POFs facebook page a few weeks ago and Frank had announced that there 308 test rifle had just past the 65 thousand round mark and was still going strong, I cant remember what kind of groups he said they were getting but I think it was still very good.............
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Posted: 3/1/2015 10:28:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I new to AR15 Dot Com, but maybe I've missed something? The OP asked a question about barrel life and accuracy expectations, not how to shoot groups or what is a valid group shooting methodology. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe this is the way people ask a legitimate question on AR15 Dot Com? Old_Navy If you are going to make outlandish claims, be ready to back them up. There are WAY too many in the tech areas spouting BS.... I invited the accuser to come out to Academi Training Center in Moyock, NC, Range 30 and come see for himself. My credentials as an instructor there and for other gov agencies are already established. I don't need to measure dicks with a never done shit NRA kool aid instructor who thinks that anything that he hasn't done cannot be possible. I've had this upper quite a few years, and had it inspected and rebuilt by PWS a few times. Still the original barrel. Either come run your gun in person or just simply keep to yourself. Whats the serial number of your upper? I know the folks at PWS and I wanted to confirm what you said. After all, this is the Internet. If you want to PM me, that's fine too. Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 9:17:37 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
moa being an angle and all that.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:I'll take sub-moa at any distance. 2000m is good for you? "Any" is so capacious word.
moa being an angle and all that.
I know (personally prefer mrad), but actually in practice, rifle capable of say.. 1 MOA @ 100m is not necessary capable to keep that at say .... 800m. Because life is not ideal. If we would have system with no external forces (perfect vacuum), you would be right. How often do you shoot your rifles in perfect vacuum? I remember when friend, when he worked in Military Armament Technical Institute, tested from insanely expensive, professional machine rest two sniper rifles, using same ammo and controlled environment. Rifles were Sako TRG-22 with 26" barrel and Tikka T3 Tactical 7.62x51 with 20" barrel, What they found out in practice is that Tikka gave tighter groups up to same 400m, between 400m and 600m both rifles were on par, while past 600m TRG-22 gave better groups (actual measurements were not published). Personally I have 9.4" Mini Beryl, that I can shoot with 55gr Hornady Steel Match around 1.5 MOA (some sub-MOA groups happened as well) at amazing 46m (50 yards). Unfortunately it does not keep this kind of accuracy even up to 200m. So my question stands, Will your "1MOA" rifle shoot exact "1MOA" at any distance between 0 and 2000 meters? |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 3:01:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just shot both Mod 0 Mk114s. They shot almost identical. It is hard to say if there is much difference. The 15-20K barrel' EOtech reticle (512) is a bit easier to aim and it has a 2 stage enhanced Geissele while the -1K barrel (EO-516) has a Geissele 3gun trigger which IMO is a slight disadvantage when trying to shoot groups so it was not exact in comparison. I had not noticed any degradation of the 15-20K barrel in drills and IMO would have noticed when I take careful sniper close range shots if it was a bigger deal. Maybe I am on the verge of it starting to go but I don't thinks so As for today it was very windy so the 25 yard targets were easier to shoot for groups and compare. 10 shot 1/2"-5/8" is not target but with a 1X it is fine IMO A real test would be to use a scope and bi-pod but as I said I was interested in satisfying myself and I am sure this goes nowhere with the debate minded That is 2.5 MOA 5/8" = 0.625 (Inches/distance) x 100 = MOA (0.625/25) x 100 = MOA 0.025 x 100 = MOA 2.5 MOA |
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Posted: 3/12/2015 4:37:28 PM EDT
[#39]
So what was the final outcome?
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Posted: 3/16/2015 11:19:44 PM EDT
[#40]
I've been giving PWS a good look. I'm looking for a barrel that can handle heat from rapid fire, maintain accuracy, and longevity. I like the nitride (Isonite QPQ) barrel, but I think I may prefer a cold hammer forged barrel rather than button because I heard CHF can handle the heat from rapid fire better than button rifling. My guess is that PWS does button rifling so they can also do stainless steel with the same equipment.
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Posted: 3/17/2015 7:37:07 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is 2.5 MOA 5/8" = 0.625 (Inches/distance) x 100 = MOA (0.625/25) x 100 = MOA 0.025 x 100 = MOA 2.5 MOA Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just shot both Mod 0 Mk114s. They shot almost identical. It is hard to say if there is much difference. The 15-20K barrel' EOtech reticle (512) is a bit easier to aim and it has a 2 stage enhanced Geissele while the -1K barrel (EO-516) has a Geissele 3gun trigger which IMO is a slight disadvantage when trying to shoot groups so it was not exact in comparison. I had not noticed any degradation of the 15-20K barrel in drills and IMO would have noticed when I take careful sniper close range shots if it was a bigger deal. Maybe I am on the verge of it starting to go but I don't thinks so As for today it was very windy so the 25 yard targets were easier to shoot for groups and compare. 10 shot 1/2"-5/8" is not target but with a 1X it is fine IMO A real test would be to use a scope and bi-pod but as I said I was interested in satisfying myself and I am sure this goes nowhere with the debate minded That is 2.5 MOA 5/8" = 0.625 (Inches/distance) x 100 = MOA (0.625/25) x 100 = MOA 0.025 x 100 = MOA 2.5 MOA That is correct but since you chose the largest groups to exemplify now can you post the same thing for the 1/2 group? I should note that I had the handguard rested and was holding the gun to my shoulder so semi-rested Therefore a better test would be a completely rested gun with a 10X scope at 100 yards but my test was not done to impress anyone but to compare a low round count barrel with a 15-20K round count identical barrel and there was no difference meaning at 20K you are still GTG with a PWS I am curious at what point this barrel will degrade but since I have pulled the high count gun and will run the newer Mod 0 that answer will have to come later or by someone else |
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