since piston uppers dont have all the powder fouling, you think using a light grase like the slip2000 would be ok for a piston BCG?

i use the slip2000 synthetic grease in my ak's and even a scar 16 i had and it worked well but they both had loser tollerences than the ar.

my reason for using grease is to eliminate oil migration.

I use grease on my BCG's. Just don't get it in with the firing pin.  The correct answer seems to be up to the user though.... I have done research and found mixed opinions.

what happens if it gets in the firing pin?

i thought i recall hearing that the tollerences in the AR15 are too tight for grease but wanted to try a thin coating and now that its winter and cold would be a good time to try it.

i putt about 150 rounds through my LWRC m6a3 12.5 incher this morning without any hicups and the temp was about 40 when i started. i just worry abount getting enought lubrication for the receiver.

I use slip2000 on all my piston rifles. Never had any issues. I do a drop or two and I'll spread it all over the BCG including the firing pin with my finger.

It will gum it up.  It will stick.  Your logic is not sound in thinking that a heavier lube that will congeal in the cold is a wise idea for winter.  Slip2000 EWL will work fine.  Motor oil will work fine.  Grease is oil with thickeners added.

"Oil migration" is an issue you should not  try to stop and cannot mitigate.  You are way, WAY overthinking this.  Lube generously, shoot, repeat.

This.  Use grease in your rifle at your peril.  It will collect all manner of debris.  If it is a range gun, experiment away and prove it to yourself.  In a defensive rifle, please don't.

it was meant as an experiment to see how it worked. i understand the tight tollerences of the AR make it improbable in gas upper but since the pistons run cleaner i thought i'd try it.

what does conceren me is that i didnt lube the inside of the receiver, just the carrier and bolt. it appeared that there might not be enought lube for the carrier to receiver space.

STOP overthinking this.  Lube the shiny spots on the outside of the bolt.  Squirt lube where you know metal contacts metal.  It's not a cold fusion reactor.  GO SHOOT THE GUN.

relax man, just toying with new ideas. been shooting lwrc's for a long time too.

Piston rifles run a cooler action, so I use white lithium grease in them (my AK's and AA piston rifles). GTG.
In my DI ar's, I run Mobile 1 10/30. It runs, and is a pain to keep "where it's needed", but the nature of DI requires more "wet" than grease can provide.
And for those knuckleheads claiming that grease is no good for cold weather... tell that to the Russians who use it in sub zero.

The beauty of piston rifles is they don't have a lot of "manner of debris" to collect. That's a DI mentality. White lithium grease has been used for DECADES in both AK's and M1's with excellent results. It's only the DI AR that likes "wet" oil.

I use a light white grease like the old Wilson Combat stuff which is now TWB25 I think. I use very little on the rails of the carrier. a dab on the top of the hammer where it contacts the carrier. and a pinhead amount on the hammer to trigger contact points.

I use Slip EWL or Breakfree LP on everything else.

And if I was to use the gun in temps under 30 degrees. I would probably forget the grease and go with just the oil.

Where do you think all the gas and unburnt powder goes when the bolt unlocks?  If it has a place to stick, it will.  Grease is a dust magnet.  I don't see any issue with "oil migration" in my various piston guns so it seems you are trying to solve a failure mode with a solution that has a more likely failure rate.  

Look, yall do what you want and good luck to you.  I've been running many different brands of ARs, pistons and other for quite a while.  I use the same lube in both - although certainly a lot less in the piston guns and I don't have to add it as I go.  It is also easier to clean afterwards.  Yes, I still clean guns.  As a crusty sergeant once said, do you wipe after you poop?

Not an AR, but a gas piston system, I've been using grease on my SIG 556R for over 2 years.  Hard to believe how long the grease lasts/stays clean in the upper receiver/on the bolt vs. how dirty the bolt/upper on a DI AR15 in just a couple boxes of ammo.

Oh, I've been using the same grease on the SIG I use on the M1 Garand and M1A - marine grade wheel bearing grease.

now that is about the funniest analogy i have ever heard for cleaning a rifle. i like that.

as for the grease, i am just trying to think out of the box since pistons ar's dont need that poop wipe quite as much. i realize light oil migration isnt a huge problem but if grease works, well then ho f'in rah. if not then i go back to slip2k

that might be your problem.  that stuff migrates all over.  I use Slip2000 or the very similar  Weaponshield. If I don't wipe all the excess off, oil is everywhere after a week.



 

oh ya, i know what you mean and I use it fairly sparingly. used breakfree clp for 10years prior but they stopped selling locally and got a free bottom of slip long ago and just started using last year.

i'm sure i'll clean the slip2k grease out in a few months but just wanted to experiment.

FWIW i started using full synthetic automatic transmission fluid in my suppressed rifles and its been the best lube for staying in place and not migrating and it cooks off less than any gun specific lube i've tried. slip was 2nd best, breakfree next and fireclean cooked off the easiest.

atf has good lubricants, rust inhibitors and heat resistant properties too. almost the perfect gun lube for suppressed DI AR's and since i clean my suppressed AR's after each shooting its a cheap lube.

I run only pistons, and ONLY grease.  I've not had any "debris" issues at all.  I'm a lefty so I can't run a wet oiled gun, if I did I end up with spatter all over my shooting glasses with the ejection port next to my face.  Pistons and grease solved this.  I'm not quite sure who's doing the overthinking here. but after thousands of 5.56 through my rifle and ~500 or so thorugh the new BO pistol I've yet to have an issue.  FYI I run Mobil 1 synthetic grease and it works like a champ, and none of it ends up on my glasses.

I've been using Gun Ease on just the contact points on the bolt (sparingly)

THIS. As I said earlier... guys need to get out of the DI mentality. DI need oil, piston systems do NOT. A piston AR will not foul any more than any other NON DI system (AK for example). So please, others, .... stop with the "dirty grease" stuff already (it isn't happening).
You can tell (from these incorrect statements) who the DI guys are. For prior DI guys... let it go... piston systems are a whole different system that  does NOT use oil.
GREASE IT.

Please cite which manufacturers are recommending the use of grease and where.  I'm sitting here looking at manuals from PWS, LWRC, and LMT and see that nowhere.

My PWS rifle came with a sample of Gun Ease which is a very thick heavy grease.

I started running slide glide (grease based gun lube) in my PWS rifle. The stuff is fantastic!

I am wondering whether greasing is really a good idea.

For a rifle that may only see a few trips to the range it seems OK.

However, if the rifle will see field use (e.g. hunting, battle, etc.) we need to think about the dirt that comes from the environment (e.g. sand, dust, etc.) that may (will) end up inside the chamber.   Not difficult to imagine the mess...

So, using a dry lube isn't a better idea even if the rifle will be less susceptible to fowling?

Im not trying to be a smart ass when asking this.... Is there any documentation on the russians useing grease ?? I use grease on my AK's . It's a very sloppy action .But I have read a Russian training document , stateing to lube/ oil there AK's after cleaning them. I can't tell you where I read it. It was here on this site.I guess it was a link someone posted. I don't care to run my AR's DI or Piston with grease. If anything a dedicated LUBE only for the piston rifles. My opinion .Nothing more , nothing less. WarDawg

So, I have 3 DI AR's and one PWS and this grease vs oil is a little confusing. First, I would think EWL Slip2000 would be sufficient for DI BCG and piston BCG? Does anyone disagree with that and if so why? I had been running grease in my DI systems but then switched over to the Slip 2000EWL and have no issues to date that I am aware of.

Wow.  Nothing brings out the staunch supporters of "common knowledge" and "urban myth" like a discussion of lubricants.  Lubrication is actually a science and I haven't seen anyone on this thread bragging on his relevant degree.  It would be great to hear from someone educated on the subject.  Since my B.S. is  in a different field I feel only slightly less qualified than the others here but can still make a couple contributions.

First of all, ATF is NOT a great lubricant.  ATF includes friction components to make it work, otherwise the bands in an automatic transmission would slip and the car would not move.  This fact I did hear from someone schooled in the subject.

Second, you AR history buffs might confirm that one of the three primary causes of M16 failure in Vietnam was the tolerances of moving components were too tight (the others  being a switch to a different propellant and not schooling the GIs in proper maintenance.)  So the OP's premise about close tolerances is in error.  I would bet that he can find some lateral play between his bolt carrier and its track in the upper receiver.

My personal opinion is that so long as you are well lubricated, you are good to go.  Is there an absolute correct answer?  Probably, but the difference will be small and could be environment dependent.  If you compare the actions of your rifle to that of an automobile, the lubricant of choice would be grease since the BCG is subject to movements and stresses similar to a suspension.  An AR does not have a recirculating oil system but if a grunt needed to wash away grime and debris to free up an action, squirting CLP on it is much more practical than field stripping the weapon and re-greasing.  Unless you live or hunt in a sandbox, I would not worry about grease supposedly being more sticky.  If you do work in a sandbox, the feedback from some recent veterans who have tried different lubricants would be the source I would listen to.

For range use, grease is fine as long as it's not so viscous it slows the bolt carrier down to the point the gun won't cycle reliably. But for anything else, I prefer dry-film lubricants containing molybdenum disulfide or teflon, so that the lube isn't attracting dust and grit that will cause excessive friction and premature wear.

Lube is counterproductive if it becomes an attractant for abrasive particles.

Seriously?? Once you take the "DI" out of the AR, what is the point of oil??
ALL prior piston systems used grease (M1, M14, AK, etc). What would make a piston AR so special that it needs OIL? The point of oil (in a DI) is that DI heats up quickly (burns lubricant), and QUICKLY carbon fouls (thus the "wet" requirement to displace). Piston systems exhibit no such behavior. Yes, ALL firearm system deposit SOME carbon in the action, but with a piston system, it's negligible and (for all practicality) a complete non issue.
Firearms are not mythical creatures... they are simple mechanical devices and the rule still applies: If it slides, GREASE it, if it spins OIL it.

That doesn't apply in an environment where airborne abrasive particles are prevalent. A greased AR might work for an hour or two in the sandbox, and then it would be too caked with dust to function any more.

So your simple answer is "no manufacturers recommend grease", then?  The OEM specifies what to use for their equipment for a reason.

By the way, I got my mechanical engineering degree in 1991 and have been using it in industry since then.  When did you get yours and where is your experience?  I think I understand lubrication.

You can put whatever you want in your gun.  I don't like introducing new failure modes in a system to solve the questionable problem of "oil migration".

Using any standard oil or grease is a recipe for disaster in conditions like this:



Dry film lubes that don't attract dirt are the way to go. Teflon and moly lubes have the bonus of having non-stick properties; you can clean most parts by wiping them with a dry cloth, then spraying or brushing on a bit more to replace what was wiped off.

good point, forgot about those.

as a civilian, if i had to deal with that kinds of day i would grab a different rifle than an AR, something that starts with A and ends with K.

It would still jam if you lubed it with grease in those conditions.

but i am guessing a dry AK would run longer than a dry AR...cuz i've seen dry AR's seize up fast, especially ones that are not "well used".

I use slip 2000 ewl and ive used the grease on my osprey equipped rifles in all weather and climates and nothings ever "gummed" up my advice is when in the field for what ever reason lube well ARs dont like dry in any environment and keep a mag inserted and the
'dust cover" closed when rifles not in use thats the best way to keep crap out...dust storms in the middle east are another thing the sand is fine like powder but even in that environment wets better than dry some one should posts crane naval special warfare findings when rifles M4s were tested about 8 years ago.