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Posted: 8/22/2014 11:03:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Appears to be such. Have you inspected the back of your BCG how badly beat up it is? You may be able to get away with one of the HeavBuffers.com anti-tilt buffers or, you can spend more and try the PWS Enhanced Tube. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 11:20:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Or not worry your paint is scuffed
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Posted: 8/22/2014 11:45:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or not worry your paint is scuffed Maybe you don't see the metal shavings. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 12:29:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Have you tried talking to LWRC about this?
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Posted: 8/23/2014 12:41:27 AM EDT
[#5]
how many rounds through it?
if 10, call L dub. if 2000, fear not. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 1:10:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how many rounds through it? if 10, call L dub. if 2000, fear not. A little over 1000. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 9:42:47 AM EDT
[#7]
All LWRC have carrier tilt ..... SAY IT CANT BE SO ! (lol).
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Posted: 8/23/2014 10:53:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All LWRC have carrier tilt ..... SAY IT CANT BE SO ! (lol). You mean a force offset some distance to a body's CG creates a moment, i.e. torque, on said body causing it to rotate? Blasphemer. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 10:57:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment.
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Posted: 8/23/2014 11:05:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Eh, looks alright to me, the pin is retained, what would be more concerning is the wear is not symmetrical indicating the BCG is yawing and pitching, or as you said, the buffer tube is not aligned with the BCG's travel axis |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 1:10:38 PM EDT
[#11]
That buffer tube is definitely not all the way in.
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Posted: 8/23/2014 1:25:53 PM EDT
[#12]
for 1k rounds it's not a lot of wear. op do you notice the wear continuing to get worse or has it leveled off (which is what mine do)?
bottom line - it takes 10 seconds to send the pic to L-dub. imho go ahead and send it off to them (and report back to us  )
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Posted: 8/23/2014 1:27:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. hard for me to tell from the angle of the pic but i suppose this could be true.... |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 1:44:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eh, looks alright to me, the pin is retained, what would be more concerning is the wear is not symmetrical indicating the BCG is yawing and pitching, or as you said, the buffer tube is not aligned with the BCG's travel axis Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Eh, looks alright to me, the pin is retained, what would be more concerning is the wear is not symmetrical indicating the BCG is yawing and pitching, or as you said, the buffer tube is not aligned with the BCG's travel axis This is what all of my factory and home builds look like - see how far in the tube goes relative to the pin 
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:23:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what all of my factory and home builds look like - see how far in the tube goes relative to the pin Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Eh, looks alright to me, the pin is retained, what would be more concerning is the wear is not symmetrical indicating the BCG is yawing and pitching, or as you said, the buffer tube is not aligned with the BCG's travel axis This is what all of my factory and home builds look like - see how far in the tube goes relative to the pin I'm not saying you're wrong, it might be able to go in another turn. What I am saying is the difference between where your tube is and his is probably .030" - about half a thread. Should he see if it goes in another turn? Sure, why not. He may find that the rib on the buffer tube doesn't fall in the vertical plane when its end is up against the nipple on the detent, and that's why it's backed out almost a full turn to where it is. Having said that, his BC end chamfer is probably .060-.125" in length and maybe .030-.060" in height ( like .060"x45 deg or .125" x 15 deg), so I'm guessing whether or not that tube is in another turn (.060"), probably doesn't matter since the carrier is forward of the end of the tube regardless for clearance and i doubt there's .060" of radial play in an upper for the carrier to bottom out such that the flat of the BC hits the buffer tube. (Hopefully, this makes sense, I can picture it in my head, I just may not be putting it to words correctly.) If I'm wrong, for sure, I'd like to know, these rifles are a continual learning process for me. A prior poster said it, it couldn't hurt to send the pic to LWRCi and see what they say. I've had really good luck with their Customer Service. You might find you shoot X rounds and the wear stops and then you realize all it has done is taken off the paint because the inner diameter (ID) of that tube wasn't adjusted to compensate for paint/coating thickness. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 10:51:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not saying you're wrong, it might be able to go in another turn. What I am saying is the difference between where your tube is and his is probably .030" - about half a thread. Should he see if it goes in another turn? Sure, why not. He may find that the rib on the buffer tube doesn't fall in the vertical plane when its end is up against the nipple on the detent, and that's why it's backed out almost a full turn to where it is. Having said that, his BC end chamfer is probably .060-.125" in length and maybe .030-.060" in height ( like .060"x45 deg or .125" x 15 deg), so I'm guessing whether or not that tube is in another turn (.060"), probably doesn't matter since the carrier is forward of the end of the tube regardless for clearance and i doubt there's .060" of radial play in an upper for the carrier to bottom out such that the flat of the BC hits the buffer tube. (Hopefully, this makes sense, I can picture it in my head, I just may not be putting it to words correctly.) If I'm wrong, for sure, I'd like to know, these rifles are a continual learning process for me. A prior poster said it, it couldn't hurt to send the pic to LWRCi and see what they say. I've had really good luck with their Customer Service. You might find you shoot X rounds and the wear stops and then you realize all it has done is taken off the paint because the inner diameter (ID) of that tube wasn't adjusted to compensate for paint/coating thickness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Eh, looks alright to me, the pin is retained, what would be more concerning is the wear is not symmetrical indicating the BCG is yawing and pitching, or as you said, the buffer tube is not aligned with the BCG's travel axis This is what all of my factory and home builds look like - see how far in the tube goes relative to the pin I'm not saying you're wrong, it might be able to go in another turn. What I am saying is the difference between where your tube is and his is probably .030" - about half a thread. Should he see if it goes in another turn? Sure, why not. He may find that the rib on the buffer tube doesn't fall in the vertical plane when its end is up against the nipple on the detent, and that's why it's backed out almost a full turn to where it is. Having said that, his BC end chamfer is probably .060-.125" in length and maybe .030-.060" in height ( like .060"x45 deg or .125" x 15 deg), so I'm guessing whether or not that tube is in another turn (.060"), probably doesn't matter since the carrier is forward of the end of the tube regardless for clearance and i doubt there's .060" of radial play in an upper for the carrier to bottom out such that the flat of the BC hits the buffer tube. (Hopefully, this makes sense, I can picture it in my head, I just may not be putting it to words correctly.) If I'm wrong, for sure, I'd like to know, these rifles are a continual learning process for me. A prior poster said it, it couldn't hurt to send the pic to LWRCi and see what they say. I've had really good luck with their Customer Service. You might find you shoot X rounds and the wear stops and then you realize all it has done is taken off the paint because the inner diameter (ID) of that tube wasn't adjusted to compensate for paint/coating thickness. I have it up on the industry forum. Waiting for them to respond. I'll be away most of September so I'm not going to send it off till I'm back and I haven't shot it in over a month. That being said zoom in on the pic with your phone or cntrl and the scroll wheel and take a look real close look at where it starts. I don't have all my tools to work on it in Kansas so I'll probably have to send it off or visit a local gun smith if it's more than paint getting worn off however it extends further into the buffer tube. That being said the worst spot that you see you can feel a slight bur from where it is wearing. Initially I thought it was just the cerakote causing an increase in the diameter but now I don't believe that so much anymore. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 7:23:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Do us a favor and let us know what they say about this. If it were just paint I would have no worries.
Since you have shavings, there IS a problem. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:11:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Ldubs gonna take a look at it. I'll be sending it sooner or later depending on when the shipping lable gets here.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:13:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All LWRC have carrier tilt ..... SAY IT CANT BE SO ! (lol). Retread
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:13:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. None of my LWRC's have this at all
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:55:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats what I'm thinking. is your IC factory cerakote or done later? None of my LWRC's have this at all Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Thats what I'm thinking. is your IC factory cerakote or done later? None of my LWRC's have this at all Done later |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:57:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Done later Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Thats what I'm thinking. is your IC factory cerakote or done later? None of my LWRC's have this at all Done later Probably just extra thickness plus its not screwed in far enough. Why did they do inside the receiver extension? I would think carrier tilt would be more uniform instead of mostly down left
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Posted: 8/27/2014 1:08:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably just extra thickness plus its not screwed in far enough. Why did they do inside the receiver extension? I would think carrier tilt would be more uniform instead of mostly down left Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Thats what I'm thinking. is your IC factory cerakote or done later? None of my LWRC's have this at all Done later Probably just extra thickness plus its not screwed in far enough. Why did they do inside the receiver extension? I would think carrier tilt would be more uniform instead of mostly down left No clue. Never hurts to be sure. There could be several issues here. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 1:11:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No clue. Never hurts to be sure. There could be several issues here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. Thats what I'm thinking. is your IC factory cerakote or done later? None of my LWRC's have this at all Done later Probably just extra thickness plus its not screwed in far enough. Why did they do inside the receiver extension? I would think carrier tilt would be more uniform instead of mostly down left No clue. Never hurts to be sure. There could be several issues here. Either way, they are good guys and I'm sure will get you fixed up. Sucks, you got that rifle about the same day I got mine.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 7:34:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Sucks more that I put the money I did into it and used high quality parts only to have this happen.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:31:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Decided to look at my Six8, which has had 300ish rounds through it, tops.
Should I be concerned? |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 2:41:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Seems this issue has been brought up several times on the LWRC M6 board. My M6A2 SPR looks exactly the same. Every one including customer service rep say it's normal and nothing to worry about and it will eventually wear in and stop showing additional wear. I'm not so sure as mine continues to show increasing wear. However I only have about 100+ rounds on the gun so time will tell.
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Posted: 8/30/2014 2:29:25 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm telling you, this kind of wear is common for piston guns. Maybe some don't show much, as others show a little more. I think this is why some get scared of or even hate pistons. However, I have not seen a single example (except when something was actually wrong) showing that the wear led to a failure of any kind. At least 9 times out of 10 the story ends up like this - "it seems to have leveled off after about 1K rounds and hasn't bothered anything."
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:32:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your buffer tube looks like it's not all the way in. The buffer retainer is barely held. Could be out of alignment. AGREE ! that tube looks like it needs one more turn, i wonder if the rear of the BCG is tapered ? if not there is the problem...., just my OPINION |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 3:27:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Interesting but sounds like they'll do you right. For better or worse, my A3 is pushing 1,500 rds with no wear in that area. Never fun to be the guy with the problem gun but nice to see that it doesn't happen all of the time.
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Posted: 9/10/2014 4:44:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Where is the like button?
It is not all the way in. Mike |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 4:53:16 PM EDT
[#32]
@wmw221 :)
DI has the same torque except the "Stroke" (the gas key is a piston) is very short and the BCG/receiver give sufficient support for this short stroke distance. Afterwards momentum carries the BCG straight back. When it comes to carrier tilt, the shorter the stroke the better. Tighter BCG clearances, more support further up the BCG body, etc. can minimize the tilt. A beveled back of the BCG can minimize the wear. What does a carbine tube cost again? $20 to $40? Not that big a deal. Mike |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 6:06:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@wmw221 :) DI has the same torque except the "Stroke" (the gas key is a piston) is very short and the BCG/receiver give sufficient support for this short stroke distance. Afterwards momentum carries the BCG straight back. When it comes to carrier tilt, the shorter the stroke the better. Tighter BCG clearances, more support further up the BCG body, etc. can minimize the tilt. A beveled back of the BCG can minimize the wear. What does a carbine tube cost again? $20 to $40? Not that big a deal. Mike Interesting except my PWS long stroke rifles have shown zero carrier tilt with probably around 12,000 rounds through them. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 10:45:26 PM EDT
[#34]
"Its not all the way in"
 that's what she said 
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Posted: 9/12/2014 8:20:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm telling you, this kind of wear is common for piston guns. Maybe some don't show much, as others show a little more. I think this is why some get scared of or even hate pistons. I have two PWS MK114 one Mod 0 one Mod 1. The Mod 0 is my primary training carbine and has at least 15K rounds through the lower (upper replaced by PWS) perhaps 20K. It looks new. It has no wear on the buffer tube. As much as i like LWRC I have to say this all surprises me and I have to wonder about other makers since most are a similar design. PWS has a completely different design but also has a PWS made buffer system. I am curious if anyone has installed the PWS buffer system on their LWRC or other similar design and if it makes any difference regarding carrier tilt. I would trust LWRC (maybe not so much under Colt) if they say it wears to a point then stops as we would have heard about major failures if that was not the case I agree many DI user hate pistons for such reasons but I also have to say a number of people have shot my PWS carbines and have bought one or more and feel different about pistons well at least the unique PWS approach. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 2:34:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting except my PWS long stroke rifles have shown zero carrier tilt with probably around 12,000 rounds through them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting except my PWS long stroke rifles have shown zero carrier tilt with probably around 12,000 rounds through them. Quoted:
I have two PWS MK114 one Mod 0 one Mod 1. The Mod 0 is my primary training carbine and has at least 15K rounds through the lower (upper replaced by PWS) perhaps 20K. It looks new. It has no wear on the buffer tube. And this (among a couple other reasons) is why I prefer PWS. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm at an Army school right now so when I get back I'll send the rifle off to LWRC. Right now I can't do that but I'll let you guys know what they say when it comes back.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 9:25:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@wmw221 :) DI has the same torque except the "Stroke" (the gas key is a piston) is very short and the BCG/receiver give sufficient support for this short stroke distance. Afterwards momentum carries the BCG straight back. When it comes to carrier tilt, the shorter the stroke the better. Tighter BCG clearances, more support further up the BCG body, etc. can minimize the tilt. A beveled back of the BCG can minimize the wear. What does a carbine tube cost again? $20 to $40? Not that big a deal. Mike Your understanding of DI is incorrect. Gas enters the key (which is NOT the piston) travels into the carrier where gas pressure pushes on the BOLT (the piston), causing the bolt to push forward in a straight line and the bolt travels rearward. No offset forces and no carrier tilt. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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